Sikh News Ravidas Sect Seeks Help From Akal Takht To Install Guru Granth Sahib

[kds1980]

Ravidas sect seeks help from Akal Takht to install Guru Granth Sahib
JAGMOHAN SINGH
Friday, 11 September 2009


AMRITSAR: Eleven member committee of Bhagat Ravidas sect from Jallandhar submitted memorandum to Jatehdar Akal Takht Gyani Gurbachan Singh at the secretariat of Akal Takht here Friday seeking his help for the installation of Guru Granth Sahib at various Gurdwaras being managed by Ravidas sect.

Committee members apprised Jatehdar that some people having ill thoughts forcibly taking away the copies of Guru Granth Sahib at the various Gurdwaras being managed by Ravidas Sect from the area around Jallandhar and surrounding.

Committee members also urged the Jatehdar to form joint committee consisting members of Sikh community, SGPC alongwith the members of Ravidas sect to conduct probe to find out the real cause behind the unfortunate incident happened at Vianna in Austria in the month of May this year so that such incident could not occur in future for the larger interest of humanity.

Jatehdar Gyani Gurbachan Singh while giving assurance to the committee members said that Sikh religious scripture and message of Sikh masters always suggested to love everybody and brotherhood. He also assured all kind of possible help to the committee members.

It may be mentioned here that certain alleged miscreants on the congregation in a Gurdwara Vianna in Austria where Sant Niranjan Dass and Sant Ram Nand were holding a sermon attacked them. Atleast six persons belonging to a rival group attacked the preachers injuring 30 people, nine of them critically. Sant Rama Nand later died in the hospital during operation. Sant Niranjan Dass who is head of the Guru Ravi Dass Gurdawara in village Ballan on Jalandhar-Pathankot road had arrived India after the incident following treatment from Austria’s hospital.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Here is a "view"..posted by my friend Sardar Gurmukh Singh Of UK...he writes for teh Sikh Times UK..

Dr W Owen Cole wrote that when visiting India in 1983, he was taken to meet "the Satguru of the Ravidasis" at Varanasi. To quote, "He lived some way outside the sacred part of the city, where Ravidas had chosen to end his days....Religions should be organisms rather than organisations and so I found these people to be. They had turned from Sikhism from which they hoped to gain improved social status or at least acceptance, and were in the process of moving further towards total independence.....The Satguru told me that many other hymns existed [in addition to those in SGGS] and that a Hindi collection was being compiled . ULTIMATELY, THE SIKH SCRIPTURE WOULD BE REPLACED BY THEIR OWN AND THE LANGUAGE OF THE SIKHS WOULD GIVE WAY TO HINDI, THUS ENABLING THE RAVIDASIS TO BECOME MORE THAN A PUNJABI-BASED MOVEMENT" (The capitals are mine.)
As an afterthought Dr Cole adds, "Whether they would ever become more than a dalit movements of chamars or cobblers, like their founder, is more uncertain. "
(Autobiography "Cole Sahib - the story of multifaith journey", Sussex Academic Press, p. 143 (The book was sent to me for review).

That was in 1983 when Dr Owen Cole visited India. So, the dalits are simply carrying on with their pre-planned agenda - the Vienna incident is an excuse.
(My item at The Sikh Times is relevant.)

Gurmukh Singh (UK)

SO there is more to it than just the "vienna incident"....

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

This is an interesting anecdote by Gurmukh Singh ji.

Any idea who gave the name/ title of Bhagat to Ravi Das ji and why would the chief of Ravidassis call himself Satguru?

If some of the writings of Bhagat Ravi Das had not been chosen by our Gurus to be added in SGGS, one wonders what status he would have had today in India!

I am sure there must have been many other writers from all different walks of life who may have written somethings simillar praising Ik Ong Kaar but are unknown to all except to the poets/writers themselves and may be to some very close friends/relatives of theirs.

Tejwant Singh

 

[AusDesi]

ULTIMATELY, THE SIKH SCRIPTURE WOULD BE REPLACED BY THEIR OWN AND THE LANGUAGE OF THE SIKHS WOULD GIVE WAY TO HINDI, THUS ENABLING THE RAVIDASIS TO BECOME MORE THAN A PUNJABI-BASED MOVEMENT" (The capitals are mine.)


That was in 1983 when Dr Owen Cole visited India. So, the dalits are simply carrying on with their pre-planned agenda - the Vienna incident is an excuse.

I don't think so. See Ravidas religion was separate anyway in the first place. Same with Kabir Panthis. Ravidasis did not start from Punjab.

Only reason why I think(and this was highlighted by Naryanjot Kaur ji in an older thread) they have anything to do with Sikhism is because the Punjabi dalits converted to it and they did not want to give up their previous religious totally.

Ravidas and Kabir both wrote their stuff and dialects of Hindi so their followers speaking hindi is not that much of a surprise. However, there are kabir panthis in all parts of India who speak their languages. Ambedkar was a Marathi follower of Kabir before his conversion.

In addition, "dalit agenda" is false in my thinking given that "dalits" only really became "dalits" in the last century. Before that they were Mahars, Chamars, Bhangis and others.

 

[Hardip Singh]

Here is a "view"..posted by my friend Sardar Gurmukh Singh Of UK...he writes for teh Sikh Times UK..

Dr W Owen Cole wrote that when visiting India in 1983, he was taken to meet "the Satguru of the Ravidasis" at Varanasi. To quote, "He lived some way outside the sacred part of the city, where Ravidas had chosen to end his days....Religions should be organisms rather than organisations and so I found these people to be. They had turned from Sikhism from which they hoped to gain improved social status or at least acceptance, and were in the process of moving further towards total independence.....The Satguru told me that many other hymns existed [in addition to those in SGGS] and that a Hindi collection was being compiled . ULTIMATELY, THE SIKH SCRIPTURE WOULD BE REPLACED BY THEIR OWN AND THE LANGUAGE OF THE SIKHS WOULD GIVE WAY TO HINDI, THUS ENABLING THE RAVIDASIS TO BECOME MORE THAN A PUNJABI-BASED MOVEMENT" (The capitals are mine.)
As an afterthought Dr Cole adds, "Whether they would ever become more than a dalit movements of chamars or cobblers, like their founder, is more uncertain. "
(Autobiography "Cole Sahib - the story of multifaith journey", Sussex Academic Press, p. 143 (The book was sent to me for review).

That was in 1983 when Dr Owen Cole visited India. So, the dalits are simply carrying on with their pre-planned agenda - the Vienna incident is an excuse.
(My item at The Sikh Times is relevant.)

Gurmukh Singh (UK)

SO there is more to it than just the "vienna incident"....

Sir,
Your apprehension has become the truth. They have printed their own book and have installed at various Ravidass Temples in Punjab. This granth too has exactly 1430 no. of pages (like Dasam granth) as par with SGGS ji. This figure has been delibrated inorder to fool the inocent followers that this is also a granth. lot of its copies have been exported to UK and EU countries too and I hope those must have been installed in their temples replacing SGGS ji. Our panthic leaders must accept this reality and ask them to go for any one at a time and not befooled again for want of their votes.

 

[dalbirk]

Ravidassis were even previously ( before Vienna incident ) never maintaining proper MARYADA where ever Prakash Saroops of SGGS were done . So before giving them Saroops SGPC should see that they follow proper Maryada & do not do anything against it . And also this RAVIDASSI tag is misleading because no such sect existed before 20th century . These 108 Babas responsible for creating Ravidassis & other sects r the same Mahants of Narainu Mahant lineage of Nanakana Sahib Saka who went out of Bussiness after SGPC was formed . So tying up with previously British then Congress Govts they intend to wean away this STRONG ARM of Sikhism so called Low castes away from the SOLE LIBERATOR RELIGION IE. Sikhism back into caste ridden GUTTER known as Hinduism . This is their sole agenda & they are diligently working on it . Everything else is a compromise for the time- being .

 

[kds1980]

I don't think so. See Ravidas religion was separate anyway in the first place. Same with Kabir Panthis. Ravidasis did not start from Punjab.

Unlike Sikhs, Ravidasi's and Kabirpanthi's don't have a separate identity .They are not at all recognised as separate religion by government of India.

 

[spnadmin]

Kabir Panth is not a religion per se. It is actually composed of people of many religions. Anyone can belong to Kabir Panth. Gatherings are for the purpose of bhakti and reflection on the writings of Kabir ji. There are Kabir panths on nearly every continent of the world. The services are very formal but are not based on any other core principles or practices that would establish the panth as a formal religion.

Unlike Ravidasis.

So I don't know how the Indian government would be deciding on religious identities. The Indian government also does not recognize Sikhism as a separate religion viz the constitution.

Reference:


Kabir Panth
`Kabir Panth` is the religious tradition based on the teachings of Kabir, an 15th century Indian mystical poet. Like various other movements, it attempts to bring Hindus and Muslims closer to each other and a member of any religion can become a `Kabirpanti`. It was modelled after the `Sahaja Panth`. The `Kabir panth` has served as a model for numerous other religious sects in India.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

I have a sneaky feeling in my stomach..all this approaching Akal takhat and all is just so much politics..nothing genuine at all. Its Badals Hand on BOTH shoulders..pushing them from BEHIND...so that his vote bank is not compromised...
Why would anyone "need" AT help in RESPECTING SGGS ? IF you respect your GURU..as you should..no one can STOP you..IF the SANGAT say we want SGGS only..what can anyone do...and IF the snagats dont want SGGS..again no body can do anything..RESPECT cannot be enforced. Plenty of shady babas WANT the SGGS..at their samdhs/graves/homes/etc becasue of MONEY the SGGS brings..BUT there we have our people FORCIBLY TAKING AWAY SGGS from them !!!..and in this case we want to FORCE them Ravidassis to have SGGS ???..is the SGGS a PAWN ?? for power plays ??:advocate:

 

[spnadmin]

I have a sneaky feeling in my stomach..all this approaching Akal takhat and all is just so much politics..nothing genuine at all. Its Badals Hand on BOTH shoulders..pushing them from BEHIND...so that his vote bank is not compromised...
Why would anyone "need" AT help in RESPECTING SGGS ? IF you respect your GURU..as you should..no one can STOP you..IF the SANGAT say we want SGGS only..what can anyone do...and IF the snagats dont want SGGS..again no body can do anything..RESPECT cannot be enforced. Plenty of shady babas WANT the SGGS..at their samdhs/graves/homes/etc becasue of MONEY the SGGS brings..BUT there we have our people FORCIBLY TAKING AWAY SGGS from them !!!..and in this case we want to FORCE them Ravidassis to have SGGS ???..is the SGGS a PAWN ?? for power plays ??:advocate:

Gyani ji

Yes because at reading the title, and before even going deeper into the article, the whole idea sounded very contradictory, like a the House of Mirrors at the canrival - forgive me -- but the entire premise of the story goes against both events previously reported and common sense.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

YES..TWO very very "uneasy" news items are making the rounds..
1. One screams...Ravidassis removing SGGS from Gurdwaras....1000's of SGGS birs have been REMOVED..blah blah blah..
2. Second one screams..Ravidassis making attempts to REACH the Akal takhat...handing memorandums to STOP such REMOVALS of SGGS...blah blah blah..

The Very interesting thing si NO ONE actually NAMES which Ravidass Gurdwara has REMOVED the SGGS....where these 1000 Gurdwaras are situated etc etc...
Second interesting thing is..WHO is removing the SGGS ?? The hard Liner SIKHS (in name of Satikaar of SGGS) or the Ravidass Commitees of Gurdwaras ?? Some SIKHS have been in the news REMOVING SGGS from places where its Maryada and satikaar is NOT as per acepted Maryada...example samadhs, pir graves, homes of sadhus, fake babas etc etc. So are these SIKHS doing the REMOVING under their own Volition ??

IF SIKHS are forcibly REMOVING sggs..agaisnt the wishes fot eh Ravidasis..then they ahve a case of approaching Akal takhat to put a stop to THAT...BUT if they are the ones removing the sggs on their own..it deosnt make sense to ask AT ?? whatever for ??

IMHO..ONLY the Ballan DERA of which the murdered Sant was HEAD..and one or two of his associate DERAS have REMOVED the SGGS. That is RIGHT because they were dishonouring the SGGS anyway. The SGGS has no place in any dera where they have a living dehdharee HUMAN GURU. ALL the REST is Rumour Mongering....by interested parties with a hidden agenda...IF a Ravidassi LOVES his GURU..the SGGS..no body can take it away from him. Period. And IF a Ravidassi or Jatt or Brahmin or Bhapa who doesnt LOVE the SGGS..he has no business having one in his posession. Simple Logic.:idea: