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Islam Quran - To All Sikh Students

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Islam Quran - To All Sikh Students

Kanwaljit.Singh

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Jan 29, 2011
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No other Holy book instructs so much violence on its adherents! Jihad is only one example. Killing non believers who will not convert under force. Men are also allowed, sanctioned by the Quran, to beat their wives if they disobey.

The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
There are Shabads in Gurbani which 'wish' that evil people were not born. It doesn't mean we go out and kill them. Sometimes people take things too literally.
 
Nov 14, 2008
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There is no harm in reading and listening to any scriptures
available.
But one thing is very important to bear in mind that whatever is being
read or listened should be put to the test of Gurbaanee views and for this it is imperetive to be first well informed about the teachings from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

I have personally listened to many scholars from Hindu as well as Islamic
fields and I did learn a lot.

Prakash.s.Bagga
beautifully expressed bagga ji ...

some verses in quran are beautiful , while with others i can compromise as these might be written in war time or so ,but a particular verse which akasha ji also quoted ,m unable to digest
As for those (wife ) from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34
can anyone (muslim or non muslim ) provide me a satifying explanation to above verse ?

Waheguru ji ki fateh
 

spnadmin

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beautifully expressed bagga ji ...

can anyone (muslim or non muslim ) provide me a satifying explanation to above verse ?

As for those (wife ) from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34

Waheguru ji ki fateh
harmanpreet singhji

The verse as I understand is not anything more than a prescription for controlling a troublesome wife. I have seen it applied also to situations where wives squabble to the point of disturbing the husband, in a multiple-wife household.

The verse is taken as a guide for training your wife: strategies for correcting a problem in 3 steps. The rule is for the husband to use progressive discipline.

  • First admonish the problem wife.
  • If that does not work, move to step 2 and refuse to have sexual relations with her (beds apart).
  • If that does not work, move to the next step which is a sound beating.

The verse is often used to show that wife-beating is not condoned in the Quran as a blanket solution. Rather, wife-beating should be used when all other means fail.

Having said all of this.... I can't manage to "digest" it either. :peacesignkaur:
 
Aug 29, 2010
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harmanpreet singhji

The verse as I understand is not anything more than a prescription for controlling a troublesome wife. I have seen it applied also to situations where wives squabble to the point of disturbing the husband, in a multiple-wife household.

The verse is taken as a guide for training your wife: strategies for correcting a problem in 3 steps. The rule is for the husband to use progressive discipline.

  • First admonish the problem wife.
  • If that does not work, move to step 2 and refuse to have sexual relations with her (beds apart).
  • If that does not work, move to the next step which is a sound beating.
The verse is often used to show that wife-beating is not condoned in the Quran as a blanket solution. Rather, wife-beating should be used when all other means fail.

Having said all of this.... I can't manage to "digest" it either. :peacesignkaur:

Very appropriate interpretation
One should bear in mind that Quran verses are along with clear cut code of conduct.and this code of conduct is accepted as approved by Allaha.

Prakash.s.Bagga
 

spnadmin

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I have to confess that in my entire life no man has ever laid his hands on me in anger - never!

Reading this verse I understand that it is part of a practical guide for living in some cultures. Wife-beating is also supported in scriptures of other religions. Yet, I never can quite connect mentally with this belief for living. Particularly when, for centuries, women also adhere to such verses, and raise their daughters to adhere as well.

p/s My understanding also is that the Quranic view gives a wife 2 chances to straighten herself out, before it is acceptable to beat her. Therefore, the Quran takes a 'more humane' approach than beating a wife in a sudden outburst of rage. Which in turn makes Islam "superior" to other religions, according to some sources.
 
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Harry Haller

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what happens if the wife is a black belt/bigger/more mobile? does she have to pretend to lose?

I have only ever smacked my dog once, it was early on in our relationship, and Dan would not come back from the park, so I smacked him on his bottom, hard, to this day, I will never forget walking past the living room that evening, Dan was lying on the floor, looking extremely sad, and Sian was lying facing him, murmuring to him, daddy didnt mean to hit you, and stroking him, I am not sure who looked more miserable, me, Dan, or Sian, I never raised my hand against an animal after that, although the puppies sometimes get a playful slap if they are really naughty, in the society that we live in today, I cannot comprehend forcing will on another, it is the ultimate irony that intelligent confident young women are browbeaten by stupid, arrogant, insecure men until they keel over and accept or are strong enough to get out, in some respects, at least Islamic men are following their religion, what excuse do the others have?
 

Harkiran Kaur

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hmmm when I tried this one, all I got was cheering, how do Islamic wives deal with troublesome husbands?
I often wondered the same... so then, if the husband is the one being difficult, can the wife also follow these same three rules, eventually beating him if he doesn't straighten out?

If not, then this clearly lays out a system of master / slave (husband being the master, the wife being his slave) That to me is NOT a good recipe for a loving marriage. Personally I don't see how Muslim women can view themselves (and actually believe) that they were made inferior to men. Since Muslims also believe that every human soul is equal in the eyes of God, how do they account for it? How can they say that 50% of the population were put into submission by Allah (for no fault of their own, since all human souls are created equal)??

And for those who try and say that there is a headship system in everything... work (employer employee etc) in those situations every employee has the chance to advance to management through their own hard work etc. In the Muslim marriage, women are forever trapped into submission as the husband's slave??? That he can just dictate whatever and if she doesn't give in he can follow that verse and (after kicking her out of bed etc) beat her??

Women's rights and equality are one of my HUGE pet peeves in this life!!
 
Oct 19, 2012
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dear sikh
first of all i like to say that QURAN and SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is not the same.. sri guru granth came directly from GOD without any help inbetween.. quran came with the help of inbetween, if not mistaken angels.. to sikh line of thought revealations that came directly from god without the help of inbetween will have eternal qualities like the creator himself.. one of the qualities of the creator is ETERNAL..this type of revealations are always alive.. in the present creation it is alive..if god decided to distroy the present creation, kaal [time], then later decided to recreate another creation, this revelations will also be alive and applicable to that creation.destiny here is return back to creator by surrendering our haumai[ego] .the revealations that was brought down by the help of inbetween is limited, only applicable to the present creation only. here the destiny made is to maya heaven n hells. here they tend to search the truth by preserving their ego or haumai.. sikhism rejects this because god n ego cannot coexist together.. in sikhism the path leading back to god, is thru the help of NAAM or melodies.. this is the kaalma in sikhism..unstruct melodies
 

Tejwant Singh

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Originally Posted by harry haller View Post
hmmm when I tried this one, all I got was cheering, how do Islamic wives deal with troublesome husbands?
Sad to say, they have no way out. Even real headaches at those moments which should be tender and loving cannot help them because forcing oneself on his wife is OK in Islam, what we call rape in this country and in some states in the US, the mandatory imprisonment is 10 years.

What is good for the goose can not be good for the gander in Islamic culture but it carries on shamelessly with some sort of Allah given right. Pathetic to say the least because the fact of the matter is that these same " rapist" husbands have daughters of their own and through their own practices, they condone the same onto them too.

Tejwant Singh
 

another gupt

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Sep 9, 2013
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It took me a long time to understand the guru granth sahib. When I was young and I used to recite japji sahib , it did so because my parents did it , I believed in it but did not fully understand it. Now I am lot older ( soon to approach 50!) I recite the path slowly line by line and I feel the effects of the gurbani words in my life , I actually experience the gurbani in my everyday life and I feel a wonderful presence of Waheguru in my life.

Understanding the gurbani comes with life experiences and age. Our children are great teachers and are quick to point out our ego.

Researching other religions is a good idea and helps to broaden the mind and remove any doubt.

Cognitive behavioural therapy is a very good branch of psychology and focuses on how our thoughts, feelings and actions are interlinked - very similar to what the gurbani teaches. There are a wide variety of books available on this subject.

To begin to find waheguru , you must first search ,let go of your pride, learn to love unconditionally , learn tolerance , acceptance and do seva. Then one day you will
begin to feel Waheguruji's presence in your heart , then you do not need to read any other books any more
because you have completed your seeking and you know the truth.

Everyone has a learning curve , for me it took me back to square one - to the guru granth sahib.
 

spnadmin

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riskygujjar ji

I do not know what purpose you have in suddenly appearing and "correcting" our perceptions. You are a guest here and you may not undermine principles of Sikhism or its gurus.

Debate issues and avoid sermonizing, negativity and abusive language toward other members.
 

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