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Post From A Different Forum On Tat Khalsa/Sanatan Sikhism

Apr 11, 2007
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I see fake people with their corrupt minds hidden behind a smile. A smile so sweet, that it could foul a king to come down from his throne. Away from my presence they whisper venomous words that get deep into the mind of the listeners. Their heart does not pump the blood of love and all they know is hate. The hate breads nothing but hate and sets them onto a path of destruction and failure. Whilst love will always accomplish and conquer all :mundaviolin:
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Ambarsaria ji,
Bhai Bachittar Singh story is only an anecdote. Mast hathis existed before Bhai Bachhittar Singh. Can be traced as far as Hannibal's army back in BC time. That is not the basis for my translation nor the basis for Sant Singh Khalsa, Bhai Manmohan Singh, Prof Sahib Singh and Freed Kote wala teeka. The line that follows is a much stronger base.

Any mast hathi is by definition intoxicated. Now when you read the next line, this is confirmed. Unless you wish to say the mind is like an excited, engrossed hathi. Anything it says is false. Even then the meaning of the translation remains the same. (There are various degees of intoxication, you are obviously talking about "intoxicated to a lesser degree" when you define masti.) The intellect of the mind is engrossed in something (intoxicated to a lesser degree), some concept, some thought, engrossed in maya so anything that comes out of it is false.

I won't make further comments on this issue unless you add something to the discussion.

Cheers
 
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Apr 11, 2007
351
262
Ambarsaria ji,
Bhai Bachittar Singh story is only an anecdote. Mast hathis existed before Bhai Bachhittar Singh. Can be traced as far as Hannibal's army back in BC time. That is not the basis for my translation nor the basis for Sant Singh Khalsa, Bhai Manmohan Singh, Prof Sahib Singh and Freed Kote wala teeka. The line that follows is a much stronger base.

Any mast hathi is by definition intoxicated. Now when you read the next line, this is confirmed. Unless you wish to say the mind is like an excited, engrossed hathi. Anything it says is false. Even then the meaning of the translation remains the same. (There are various degees of intoxication, you are obviously talking about "intoxicated to a lesser degree" when you define masti.) The intellect of the mind is engrossed in something (intoxicated to a lesser degree), some concept, some thought, engrossed in maya so anything that comes out of it is false.

I won't make further comments on this issue unless you add something to the discussion.

Cheers

Bhagat Ji, I was really getting intoxicated with all these elephant stories. I did not realise our religion had so much on elephants? WOW! Why wont you make any further comments things were just getting interesting? Please elaborate further sir as I need to understand this Masti and elephant knowledge.... Thanking you kindly... mundahug Brother, Do we have any other animal stories as well, this is all getting a bit to hindu for me? What do you think?
 
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Ambarsaria

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Ambarsaria ji,
Bhai Bachittar Singh story is only an anecdote. Mast hathis existed before Bhai Bachhittar Singh.
Bhagat Singh ji it seems you like to take both sides of the argument by yourself seriously. You mention Bachittar Singh and when I mention and also mention "billions of MAST Hathi", you claim these too. Hard to figure out what you stand for? Your message is incorrect in your banner!

I disagree with you as previously explained. Your translation is a quote of a translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa and hence I cannot debate because it is nothing that you did yourself. If Dr. Sant Siingh Khalsa was here I would debate him.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

BhagatSingh

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What are you going on about?
And it seems you have not even read my posts. Read them carefully before you respond.
 

Ambarsaria

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What are you going on about?
And it seems you have not even read my posts. Read them carefully before you respond.
Bhagat Singh ji your "seeming" has no control over my responses. I share what I feel as I feel. We all have different time spans and times needed to comprehend and we need to respect that. I see through your posts faster than a hot knife going through butter. lol

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
a MASTH is a biological hormone produced in a MALE ELEPHANT ...and its SEASONAL...
[SIZE=+2]Musth[/SIZE]​
Bull elephants annually cycle between a state of heightened aggressiveness, called musth, and non-musth. A musth elephant is primed to mate, and fights other bull elephants, attacks other animals, and may destroy inanimate objects in its way. Musth bulls produce a distinctive low-frequency vocalization, the musth rumble, have thick secretions from their temporal glands (the duct from the temporal gland opens between the eye and the ear), and continuously dribble urine. Testosterone levels are at a peak in musth males and probably regulate this extreme form of reproductive behavior.
Legendary "rogue" elephants were probably musth bulls, redirecting their aggression at random objects, including villages and the people in the villages.
Young bulls do not go into musth, and may be inhibited from doing so by older males. Asian elephant males start their musth cycles by the time they are 20, but African elephants do not reach this stage of maturity until they are 25 or so years old.
Musth has implications for maintenance of captive populations of elephants in conservation programs. Musth males are unmanageable and extremely hazardous to elephant handlers.
Musth is an interesting reproductive strategy. Presumably, males cannot maintain themselves in this physiological state for extended periods of time. In a sense, it might be a handicap, as only well-fed, healthy males may be able to physiologically support the energetic demands of being musth. When more than one bull is in musth, fights, with risk of serious injury, result. Bulls may adopt a strategy of avoiding fights by coming into musth out of synchrony with stronger or more powerful bulls, but female ability to conceive is highly seasonal, so an elephant whose musth is poorly timed may sire few offspring. Bulls which exhibit off-season musth are displaying a type of satellite strategy, in which their mating efforts are peripheral to the main mating competition.


JUST GOOGLE MUSTH/MASTH for more info.


IN GURBANI..the Elephant is mostly an example of a KAAM OBSESSED creature...and MUSTH is exactly THAT. GRAMMAR...SPELLINGS..and GURBANI "vocabulary" knowledge is vital....as well as deep understanding of PUNJABI language and words...superficial understanding/shallow fishing in deep waters is unproductive...
 

Ambarsaria

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a MASTH is a biological hormone produced in a MALE ELEPHANT ...and its SEASONAL...
[SIZE=+2]Musth[/SIZE]​
Bull elephants annually cycle between a state of heightened aggressiveness, called musth, and non-musth.
Gyani Jarnail Singh ji thanks for your post.

The description sends shivers up my spine as Hathi/Elephant in such stage are actually much better at organized annihilation of anything in their way whereas things in "intoxicated" stage can be tripped by a baby
and generally only make a fool of self.

So Bhagat Singh ji's banner message is a dis-service to what Guru Nanak Dev ji's say in Gurbani. I recognize it originated from someone else's translation so may be a minor mis-step.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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The meaning of the word MAST is always a STATE of INTOXICATION.
There can be several causes for creation of this STATE.
What Giyani ji is mentioning is only one of the cause which is related speific to elephant.
What Gurbanee referes to MAST is the STATE of INTOXICATION created thru NAAMu
In SGGs ji there is a Sabad at pp351 related to this STATe.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Here is a complete Sabadas
Page 351
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤੂਤਿ ਬੇਲਿ ਬਿਸਥਾਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਫਲੁ ਹੂਆ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਅਨਾਹਦੁ ਵਾਜੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨਿ ਕੀਆ ॥੧॥ ਕਰੇ ਵਖਿਆਣੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਸੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੀਆ ਸੇ ਮਸਤ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਤੂਟੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਫਾਹੇ ॥ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਣੀ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਤਾ ਛੋਡੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੇ ਲਾਹੇ ॥੨॥ ਸਰਬ ਜੋਤਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਸਗਲ ਭਵਨ ਤੇਰੀ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਰਾਰੈ ਰੂਪਿ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਬੈਠਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਛਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ ਬੀਣਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਜਾਵੈ ਜੋਗੀ ਦਰਸਨਿ ਰੂਪਿ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਸਬਦਿ ਅਨਾਹਦਿ ਸੋ ਸਹੁ ਰਾਤਾ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਵਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੮॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 351}
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Gyani ji Awesome. I did not know elephants went through periodic cycles of it. Musth is not a hormore rather, a state induced by hormones. But yeah this is why elephants were used in war. " A musth elephant is primed to mate, and fights other bull elephants, attacks other animals, and may destroy inanimate objects in its way." They would be given alcohol to make them more mast.

Prakash ji you are correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musth said:
The word is derived from Persian مست (mast, pronounced [mæst] in modern Persian), which means "intoxicated"
what is your understanding of that shabad you posted in English?
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Sure Parma ji,
We can open a thread to all elephant references in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There are quite a bit.

BHAGAT SINGH ji,

Here is the sabad you make a reference
ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ ਮੈ ਗੁਣ ਗਲਾ ਕੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਭਾਰ ॥ ਗਲੀ ਗਲਾ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ॥ ਖਾਣਾ ਪੀਣਾ ਹਸਣਾ ਬਾਦਿ ॥ ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਨ ਆਵਹਿ ਯਾਦਿ ॥੧॥ ਤਉ ਪਰਵਾਹ ਕੇਹੀ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਜੈ ॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਜਨਮਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਲੀਜੀ ਲੀਜੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮਤਿ ਮਤਾਗਲੁ ਮਤਾ ॥ ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਬੋਲੀਐ ਸਭੁ ਖਤੋ ਖਤਾ ॥ ਕਿਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਲੈ ਕੀਚੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਦੁਇ ਸਾਖੀ ਪਾਸਿ ॥੨॥ ਜੈਸਾ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਹਿ ਤੈਸਾ ਕੋ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਜੇਹੀ ਤੂੰ ਮਤਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਤੇਹੀ ਕੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਵੈ ਚਲਾਵੈ ॥੩॥ ਰਾਗ ਰਤਨ ਪਰੀਆ ਪਰਵਾਰ ॥ ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਪਜੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਰ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਰਤੇ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਧਨੁ ਮਾਲੁ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬੂਝੈ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੯॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 351}

In this sabad.. Mun Ki Mati has been equated with Intoxicated Elephant.

Since Mun Ki Mati is devoid of Gurmati so utterances as per own thinking are like intoxicated elephant.The views presented devoid of Gurmati can be damaging as intoxicated elephant can damage anything iwhen in intoxicated state.
Real intellect mind is one having adopted Gurmati views.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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The meaning of the word MAST is always a STATE of INTOXICATION.
There can be several causes for creation of this STATE.
What Giyani ji is mentioning is only one of the cause which is related speific to elephant.
What Gurbanee referes to MAST is the STATE of INTOXICATION created thru NAAMu
In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji there is a Sabad at pp351 related to this STATe.
Prakash.s.Bagga
Prakash.S.Bagga ji there is nothing more ridiculous rather than to generalize what different words mean in SGGS. You started with other stuff (GUR, GURu Guroo and it did not go very far) and now you are getting to use the NAAMu distraction.

Can you refer back and search where it was resolved with your participation that NAAMu was a name for "Understanding of creator". I am sure you are going to deny that you ever agreed with that. Please stop using distraction smoke bombs.

Show me the logic for the following statement,
What Gurbanee referes to MAST is the STATE of INTOXICATION created thru NAAMu
How can you possibly relate that to the Elephant. Is it that now you are starting to believe in metaphors and elephant is NAAMu? Please have some respect rather than try to win nothing and desecrate along the way and encourage the young one to follow your mis-steps.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Prakash.S.Bagga ji there is nothing more ridiculous rather than to generalize what different words mean in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. You started with other stuff (GUR, GURu Guroo and it did not go very far) and now you are getting to use the NAAMu distraction.

Can you refer back and search where it was resolved with your participation that NAAMu was a name for "Understanding of creator". I am sure you are going to deny that you ever agreed with that. Please stop using distraction smoke bombs.

Show me the logic for the following statement,
How can you possibly relate that to the Elephant. Is it that now you are starting to believe in metaphors and elephant is NAAMu? Please have some respect rather than try to win nothing and desecrate along the way and encourage the young one to follow your m


Sat Sri Akal.

Pl show me where did I write Elephant as Naamu.This is your own creation Pl stop manipulation with Gurbanee words.
If you cant recognise Gurbanee words properly it is your problem not mine.
I cant be held resposible for your misconceptions

Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Kamala

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May 26, 2011
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Well murtis did exist parkash ji. But I have no idea why they would be in the temple if people these days say they were rejected, maybe they were their to show respect for the gods/gurus. I should go to the golden temple one dqay and ask the council this question myself.
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Well murtis did exist parkash ji. But I have no idea why they would be in the temple if people these days say they were rejected, maybe they were their to show respect for the gods/gurus. I should go to the golden temple one dqay and ask the council this question myself.

But what I know is that Murtis(if any) were never installed by any of our GuRu ji.

Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Luckysingh

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Amusing comment Parm ji, I like that one!!:mundabhangra:
OK, were going to go off track with the elephant here.
It's probably going to lead to Ganesh and murtis.:grinningkaur:cheerleader:grinningkaur:

Sat kartar
 

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