- May 4, 2006
Does 'Truth' require belief?
Nam Jap ji
You are welcome.
For anyone who is interested in how I found this -- it says a lot about the importance of learning Gurmukhi -- because Gurmukhi is a consistent system of letters and sounds -- and English is not.
Gur Kee Moorat Munn Mein Dhyaan was not easy to find using the transliteration -- you can see from the first line that the same sequence of words and their sounds can be spelled two different ways in translit -- different enough to make a search engine tell you that there are 0 matches -- and you know that cannot be true. Both spellings BTW are correct. But a search engine want you to use only one spellings, ITS spellings.
After a few failed experiments with different ways to sound out some of the words, e.g., Gur Guru and Guroo for Nam Japs's Gur -- or murath and muraatth and moorath for Nam Jap's moorath -- I finally gave up using the translit. Instead I resorted to searching using my English equivalents with 4 of the words in Nam Jap's example. That led to a quick find.
Why does this happen? Compilations of SGGS in Gurmukhi, transliteration, and English employ one scholar to do the English translation and another scholar, who is an expert in English phonics or linguistic patterns, to do the transliteration. This is a person who can figure out precise equivalents between Punjabi sounds and English sounds. The problem is English is not precise. In English several combination of vowels or vowels and consonants make the SAME sound. Which confuses a search engine because it is using a system that may not be shared by another search engine. And the system may not be used by many Punjabi speakers. An example from Nam Jap's sentence is munn which means mind, but on the searchgurbani.com database is spelled man. And that happened because the a and u in English sound exactly alike, they both sound like the u in the word put because of the placement of m and n in man and m and nn in munn. Man and Munn sound exactly alike.
Same thing with the th sound in mooratth. The th sound in mooratth is a soft th, as in them. Your place your tongue behind your front teeth instead of between your front teeth. So the person who completed the translit used tth to indicate that. The word granthi is pronounced the same way.
What is the moral of this story? When posting a shabad, it helps everyone to use the Gurmukhi, translit and the English. The English may actually be more helpful for Punjabi speakers who do not know Gurmukhi and they are looking for something in SGGS. Just translating a line from a translit may not be difficult, but locating a shabad can be difficult using transliterations.
Apologies to anyone who thought this was boring and unnecessary.
I didnt want to come out and say it directly... but that is what i was leaning towards when I asked; "does truth require belief"?Now we are getting the crux of the matter. What did the gurus believe about knowledge? Great inquiry!
Sinister ji,i guess i am asking the wrong the question... i should be asking ... how much do your circles overlap? would you add more circles? how would you justify the addition of more circles?
"what tangled webs we weave"
Slight addition. Is Sikhism really a priori assumption~: May be or may be not as it is beyond reasoning. May be it is not an empiricist based study as well but is not a radicalism leading to some thing that senses can make us know the truth. Something is missing.Now we are getting the crux of the matter. What did the gurus believe about knowledge? Great inquiry!
As for 4 kinds of truth.
Deductive or logical
Formal or mathematical
Empirical or inductive
Religious based on a priori assumptions (beliefs) about good, evil and the supernatural.