No Punjabi In Punjab?

[rajneesh madhok]

The propaganda to Punjabi language is much more than its implementation. Gurmat Parchar is being made but even then Punjabi language is not being implemented in Punjab despite efforts with ups and bound.
Even Sikh Gurudwara Management committees could not implement Punjabi language in the institutions run by them. The material fact is that the set back to Punjabi has been made not by the particular community but by our so called politicians.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Rajneesh Madhok ji some comments,

The propaganda to Punjabi language is much more than its implementation. Gurmat Parchar is being made but even then Punjabi language is not being implemented in Punjab despite efforts with ups and bound.
Sorry cannot make head or tails out of this sentence.

Even Sikh Gurudwara Management committees could not implement Punjabi language in the institutions run by them.

The material fact is that the set back to Punjabi has been made not by the particular community but by our so called politicians.
Rajneesh Madhok ji the seeds of Punjabi destruction were sown by the Jan Sangh (I believe they are called BJP now) in Punjab during the census to destroy Punjabi language in Punjab in the 1960s. Perhaps current generation's fathers and forefathers. Jan Sangh encouraged and actively worked on getting Hindus in Punjab to claim they spoke Hindi or basically lie and hence the destruction of Punjab and Punjabi began. Rest is History as now we are just seeing the maturing effects of the treason of such people to Punjab and Punjabi.

It is pretty stark and we don't need to sugar coat it with tertiary observations like colleges away from villages and people speaking Hindi in those places.

Sorry to very strongly disagree with your posts in this thread. Conversly very happy to strongly agree with posts by Princess Kaur ji.

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

This is one topic where I most strongly disagree with Rajneesh madhok. The JanSangh and the Mahasha Press of Jalandhar together with the Arya samsjis ( of PUNJAB ONLY ) worked day and night to destroy PUNJABI status in Punjab. They got the ordinary Hindu families to lie that they spoke HINDI (saying..SADEE MA BOLI hindi Hai declaring Hindi as mother tongue while speaking PUNJABI !!..while a Genuine Hindi seeaker would have said..hamaree boli hindi hai or hum hindi bolteh hein... This is history and cannot be wished away....
The PUNJAB section of BJP is still the exact same jan sangh people...who cannot stomach anything Pro-Punjab...pro-punjabi or pro-sikh. Thats why they find Badal such a good friend...birds of feather fly together..

 

[princess kaur]

Princess Kaurji,
Regards,
As you belong to Punjab and would have visited Medical, Engineering, Pharmacy Colleges and other professional colleges in Punjab. Have you come across even 1% students, faculty, staff of those professional colleges those conversate in Punjabi language. Though those colleges are situated in the remotest areas of Punjab and are being run by Sikh managements. Why not you raise this issue in those colleges. Why not more than 1% students, staff, faculty and management conversate in Punjabi. Why 99% persons in colleges conversate in Hindi. In those colleges at least more than 50% students are Punjabis and belong to sikh families because 85% seats in all the professional colleges are reserved for Punjab candidates. Kindly tell me whose fault is this. I am talking about the remotest areas of Punjab, where the village population conversate in Punjabi. When we don't want to conversate in Punjabi in Punjab's remotest areas then how can you say that we shall apply Tamilnadu's policies.
You can influence the students but can not change the mentality. Who has played such type of roles in Professional colleges in Punjab. The reason is that the lecturers deliver lecture in Hindi/ English language. No lecturer deliver lecture in Punjabi language. It is not the detachment with Punjabi language but it is that Hindi language is our national language and so the mode of conversation in Punjab in all professional colleges is Hindi.

rajneesh ji,

yes,i have visited many colleges in punjab. in remote areas situation is not that worse as in urban areas. in remote areas mostly students conversate in punjabi. i have studied in remote as well as in urban areas. in remote areas there are not great hindi lovers. staff and students who speak hindi in remote areas, they belong to urban areas or are hindus. most mass is from villages and there is no infuence of hindi on them. they may conversate in hindi in class with teachers but they talk in punjabi language only.in remote areas 90% are punjabi speakers. they talk in punajbi atleast in their family that is a great thing...as long m concerned when i conversate in punjabi with hindi speakers they also respond in punjabi language, it depends on us also.

alone i cant do anything in prapagating punjabi langauge its WE who have to raise the voice.

but sorry to say rajneesh ji,in this forum many friends are from all over world, they must not be knowing punjabi but they have felt concern about the language. and i cant change your mentality, and others who have same mentality especially hindu masses.

 

[rajneesh madhok]

rajneesh ji,

yes,i have visited many colleges in punjab. in remote areas situation is not that worse as in urban areas. in remote areas mostly students conversate in punjabi. i have studied in remote as well as in urban areas. in remote areas there are not great hindi lovers. staff and students who speak hindi in remote areas, they belong to urban areas or are hindus. most mass is from villages and there is no infuence of hindi on them. they may conversate in hindi in class with teachers but they talk in punjabi language only.in remote areas 90% are punjabi speakers. they talk in punajbi atleast in their family that is a great thing...as long m concerned when i conversate in punjabi with hindi speakers they also respond in punjabi language, it depends on us also.

alone i cant do anything in prapagating punjabi langauge its WE who have to raise the voice.

but sorry to say rajneesh ji,in this forum many friends are from all over world, they must not be knowing punjabi but they have felt concern about the language. and i cant change your mentality, and others who have same mentality especially hindu masses.

Princess Kaurji,

Why Hindi newspapers has the maximum readership in Punjab. The Hindi newspapers are maximum circulated in Punjab. The circulation of only one newspaper of Hindi i.e. Punjab Kesari is more than double of the sale of all the daily newspapers. The combined sale of only Punjab Kesari is 10,91,000 copies daily. Why the liking of Punjabis are more to Hindi newspapers than Punjabi newspapers.
Punjab kesari (Hindi newspaper) with a circulation of 6.4 lakh copies. of Jalandhar edition and 4,50,000 copies of Delhi edition has maximum sale in Punjab. Jag Bani Punjabi paper being printed from Jalandhar and Ludhiana has only circulation of 3.1 lakh copies and Ajit and other daily newspapers combined circulation is 3 lakh copies.
Kindly elaborate whether there is any role of hindus that Punjab Kesari (Hindi newspaper) is being read more than double in Punjab. Whether the maximum circulation of Hindi Paper is due to Hindus. Why not the circulation of Punjabi newspapers could not increase in Punjab.
Hindi is the most liking language because: When the question of employment is concerned:
The question is based on employment factor. The lecturers are appointed in professional colleges due to the fluency in Hindi/ English language. You sincerely tell me whether the lecturer who has fluency in Punjabi language will be appointed in Professional colleges in Punjab or those have fluency in Hindi language. Unfortunately we are still sticking on Punjabi and Hindi. We are not concerned with the prospects of the students. Whether you will find more books in Punjabi language on technical subjects.
While submitting the resume for a job. Whether the candidate will admit to provide lecture in Punjabi/ English or Hindi/ English. In which language the interviews are being conducted in Punjab.
In which language the multi-national companies’ employees conversate in Punjab.

Madam, now I come to your points: You admit that the situation in remote areas is not that worse means that is not GOOD. To whom you will consider great Hindi lovers. Whether more than 75% students those conversate in Hindi. Why the people of urban areas in Punjab conversate in Hindi. All of them are not Hindus. I have previously mentioned that the villagers or rural background students are not so influenced in Hindi language. But in the class 100% students conversate in Hindi even though they used to conversate in Punjabi language in their home.

I have already admitted that you can conversate in Punjabi language with 90% candidates in Punjab but why not they conversate usually in Punjabi language. I don’t deny that we can’t conversate in Punjabi language in Punjab, why not the students have liking in conversation in Punjabi language whereas they are conversant in conversation in Punjabi language.
The point is that what is the reason that why the students, teachers, staff and general public are more inclined to Hindi language than Punjabi.

Regards,
Rajneesh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Rajneesh ji,
I dont get your logic at all...
When the Mughals RULED INDIA..the language of the GOVT was f{censored}e/Arabic/persian/Urdu...did that mean that ALL Indians were MUSLIMS ?? NO..in FACT Guur Nanak ji observed and frankly declared..HINDUS as HYPOCRITES who Spoke and used the "malecch language" to please their Masters while privately they condemned their language/religion/custom..THIS is in Asa Ki Vaar... From 1947 the POLITICAL MASTERS of INDIA are the HINDU?HINDI?HINDOSTAN LOBBY is very strong...and keeps PUSHING for HINDI HINDU HINDOSTAN...but they are strong ONLY in PUNJAB where they have made the TRAITOR BADAL as ALLY...why they never DARE FACE Tamils in Tamil nadu....etc and force HINDI/HINDU/HINDOSTAN in the SOUTH ??
WE have ALIGARH MUSLIM university..we have BENARES HINDU university..but the Hindu BJP partner of Badal removed the word SIKH form Sri Guru Granth Sahib University...is the word SIKH so racist and evil ?? The BJP insited on the word DEV to be included in Guru nanak DEV University...when the one in Pakistan is claled Baba nanak Univeristy...WHY do the BJP even BOTHER isnce these are SIKH /PUNJAB univeristies...in one they hate the word SIKH and removed it..in the other they insisted on DEV !! why ??And see just how many DAV colleges of BJP are affilaited to GNDU ?? why so ?? These racists HATE the name of Guru nanak ji so much they dont wnat to be affilaited to a uni named after Him...
A GOVT in POWER can do anything...In front of my eyes...the PREMIER ENGLISH NEWSPAPERS in Malaysia..with circulations running into a MILLION back in the 1960s...are NOW barely in the THOUSANDS...why ?? Becasue it was made such that the ENGLISH newspaper had to SUBSIDISE and PRINT Malay language newspapers from the profits amde...slowly over time those subsidy destroyed them...how long can all profits be ploughed into others save you...now THOSE PEOPLE ALSO TURN AROUND AND SAY THE SAME THING..why MALAY NEWSPAPER IS SO MANY millions AND eNGLISH PAPAER ONLY THOUSNADS ?? CAN YOU LIST THE NAMES OF ANY HINDI NEWSPAPERS TAHT WERE BANNED/HAD PRESSES EALED AND PROPERTIES CONFISCTAED IN PUNJAB ?? PUNJABI newspapers can be listed in perhaps a DOZEN names...who founded Hindostan Times, TRIBUNE GROUP and who controls these now ?? why ??
List just how many HINDI newspapers sell in PAKISTAN ?? and why NOT ?? OK..How many Hindi papers sell in BIHAR...BENGAL ??? TAMIL NADU ?? and whats their circulations there ?? Do these BEAT the Tamil and English newspapers ?? IF Not why ?? are the SOUTHERN HINDUS not so loving of HINDI ?? why tye love TAMIL and the HINDU in ENGLISH ??

No sir..your arguments vis a vis Hidni and Punjabi in PUNJAB fall flat as they have no basis in Fair play/honesty/good business practises/good journalism etc etc.. Before they began in HINDI..most of the Mahasha Press was IN URDU..as this was the de facto language of Punjab...and this doesnt mean all Punjabis were MUSLIMS...who suddenly became converts to HINDU in 1960....

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Princess Kaurji,

Why Hindi newspapers has the maximum readership in Punjab. The Hindi newspapers are maximum circulated in Punjab. The circulation of only one newspaper of Hindi i.e. Punjab Kesari is more than double of the sale of all the daily newspapers. The combined sale of only Punjab Kesari is 10,91,000 copies daily. Why the liking of Punjabis are more to Hindi newspapers than Punjabi newspapers.
Punjab kesari (Hindi newspaper) with a circulation of 6.4 lakh copies. of Jalandhar edition and 4,50,000 copies of Delhi edition has maximum sale in Punjab. Jag Bani Punjabi paper being printed from Jalandhar and Ludhiana has only circulation of 3.1 lakh copies and Ajit and other daily newspapers combined circulation is 3 lakh copies.
Kindly elaborate whether there is any role of hindus that Punjab Kesari (Hindi newspaper) is being read more than double in Punjab. Whether the maximum circulation of Hindi Paper is due to Hindus. Why not the circulation of Punjabi newspapers could not increase in Punjab.
Hindi is the most liking language because: When the question of employment is concerned:
The question is based on employment factor. The lecturers are appointed in professional colleges due to the fluency in Hindi/ English language. You sincerely tell me whether the lecturer who has fluency in Punjabi language will be appointed in Professional colleges in Punjab or those have fluency in Hindi language. Unfortunately we are still sticking on Punjabi and Hindi. We are not concerned with the prospects of the students. Whether you will find more books in Punjabi language on technical subjects.
While submitting the resume for a job. Whether the candidate will admit to provide lecture in Punjabi/ English or Hindi/ English. In which language the interviews are being conducted in Punjab.
In which language the multi-national companies’ employees conversate in Punjab.

Madam, now I come to your points: You admit that the situation in remote areas is not that worse means that is not GOOD. To whom you will consider great Hindi lovers. Whether more than 75% students those conversate in Hindi. Why the people of urban areas in Punjab conversate in Hindi. All of them are not Hindus. I have previously mentioned that the villagers or rural background students are not so influenced in Hindi language. But in the class 100% students conversate in Hindi even though they used to conversate in Punjabi language in their home.

I have already admitted that you can conversate in Punjabi language with 90% candidates in Punjab but why not they conversate usually in Punjabi language. I don’t deny that we can’t conversate in Punjabi language in Punjab, why not the students have liking in conversation in Punjabi language whereas they are conversant in conversation in Punjabi language.
The point is that what is the reason that why the students, teachers, staff and general public are more inclined to Hindi language than Punjabi.

Regards,
Rajneesh

Rajneesh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have no idea why you are in denial. The reason there is more Hindi Newspapers' circulation in Punjab is because Punjabi Hindus have rejected and denied their Punjabihood which is a shameful thing. It has been a well planned agenda by the Hindus to do that in Punjab for many years. How many members of your own family read, write or speak Punjab at the dinner table although I am sure all know the latter?

I have been reading your posts for quite sometime now and I have never seen you been so blindsided by your own subjective truths.

Hindus in Punjab refuse to speak Punjabi at home where as Muslims in Punjab, in Pakistan, love to speak Punjabi and do speak their native language because they consider themselves proud Punjabis although they do not know Gurmukhi, unlike their Hindu counterparts in Punjab, India.

I would not toot my own horn about how many languages I speak besides Punjabi, but rejecting one's own mother tongue is rejecting one's own culture. It is rejecting the soil that feeds the person. The result of that is that one becomes a predator rather than a cultivator of harmony in which language plays a great role, in this case Punjabi.

The more languages one learns, the better adaptability and acceptance one cultivates of different cultures/religions/peoples.

Rejection of the language of the land one was born in, is the rejection of the self with an ulterior agenda.

Tejwant Singh

 

[rajneesh madhok]

Rajneesh ji,
I dont get your logic at all...
When the Mughals RULED INDIA..the language of the GOVT was f{censored}e/Arabic/persian/Urdu...did that mean that ALL Indians were MUSLIMS ?? NO..in FACT Baba Baba Baba Guru Nanak Sahib Ji Sahib Ji Sahib Ji observed and frankly declared..HINDUS as HYPOCRITES who Spoke and used the "malecch language" to please their Masters while privately they condemned their language/religion/custom..THIS is in Asa Ki Vaar... From 1947 the POLITICAL MASTERS of INDIA are the HINDU?HINDI?HINDOSTAN LOBBY is very strong...and keeps PUSHING for HINDI HINDU HINDOSTAN...but they are strong ONLY in PUNJAB where they have made the TRAITOR BADAL as ALLY...why they never DARE FACE Tamils in Tamil nadu....etc and force HINDI/HINDU/HINDOSTAN in the SOUTH ??
WE have ALIGARH MUSLIM university..we have BENARES HINDU university..but the Hindu BJP partner of Badal removed the word SIKH form Sri Guru Granth Sahib University...is the word SIKH so racist and evil ?? The BJP insited on the word DEV to be included in Baba Baba Baba Guru Nanak Sahib Ji Sahib Ji Sahib Ji DEV University...when the one in Pakistan is claled Baba Baba Baba Baba Guru Nanak Sahib Ji Sahib Ji Sahib Ji Univeristy...WHY do the BJP even BOTHER isnce these are SIKH /PUNJAB univeristies...in one they hate the word SIKH and removed it..in the other they insisted on DEV !! why ??And see just how many DAV colleges of BJP are affilaited to GNDU ?? why so ?? These racists HATE the name of Baba Baba Baba Guru Nanak Sahib Ji Sahib Ji Sahib Ji so much they dont wnat to be affilaited to a uni named after Him...
A GOVT in POWER can do anything...In front of my eyes...the PREMIER ENGLISH NEWSPAPERS in Malaysia..with circulations running into a MILLION back in the 1960s...are NOW barely in the THOUSANDS...why ?? Becasue it was made such that the ENGLISH newspaper had to SUBSIDISE and PRINT Malay language newspapers from the profits amde...slowly over time those subsidy destroyed them...how long can all profits be ploughed into others save you...now THOSE PEOPLE ALSO TURN AROUND AND SAY THE SAME THING..why MALAY NEWSPAPER IS SO MANY millions AND eNGLISH PAPAER ONLY THOUSNADS ?? CAN YOU LIST THE NAMES OF ANY HINDI NEWSPAPERS TAHT WERE BANNED/HAD PRESSES EALED AND PROPERTIES CONFISCTAED IN PUNJAB ?? PUNJABI newspapers can be listed in perhaps a DOZEN names...who founded Hindostan Times, TRIBUNE GROUP and who controls these now ?? why ??
List just how many HINDI newspapers sell in PAKISTAN ?? and why NOT ?? OK..How many Hindi papers sell in BIHAR...BENGAL ??? TAMIL NADU ?? and whats their circulations there ?? Do these BEAT the Tamil and English newspapers ?? IF Not why ?? are the SOUTHERN HINDUS not so loving of HINDI ?? why tye love TAMIL and the HINDU in ENGLISH ??

No sir..your arguments vis a vis Hidni and Punjabi in PUNJAB fall flat as they have no basis in Fair play/honesty/good business practises/good journalism etc etc.. Before they began in HINDI..most of the Mahasha Press was IN URDU..as this was the de facto language of Punjab...and this doesnt mean all Punjabis were MUSLIMS...who suddenly became converts to HINDU in 1960....

Gyaniji,
The first Guruji’s name is Baba Baba Guru Nanak Sahib Ji Sahib Ji Dev ji, who is the founder of Sikhism. The Second Guruji’s name is Guru Angad Devji, The third Guruji’s name is Guru Amar Dass ji, The fifth Guruji’s name is Guru Arjan Dev ji and so on.
Bhai Gurdas, Bhai Mardana’s name are immortal.
Sixth Gurji name is Guru Hargobindji,
Guru Teg Bahadurji, Guru Angad ji,
Details of Gurujis with their names.
1 Guru Nanak Dev jI 15 April 1469 20 August 1507 22 September 1539 69 2 Angad Dev 31 March 1504 7 September 1539 29 March 1552 48 3 Amar Das 5 May 1479 26 March 1552 1 September 1574 95 4 Ram Das 24 September 1534 1 September 1574 1 September 1581 46 5 Arjan Dev 15 April 1563 1 September 1581 30 May 1606 43 6 Har Gobind 19 June 1595 25 May 1606 28 February 1644 48 7 Har Rai 16 January 1630 3 March 1644 6 October 1661 31 8 Har Krishan 7 July 1656 6 October 1661 30 March 1664 7 9 Tegh Bahadur 1 April 1621 20 March 1665 11 November 1675 54 10 Gobind Singh 22 December 1666 11 November 1675 7 October 1708 41 11 Guru Granth Sahib n/a 7 October 1708 n/a n/a
Now we come to the point

What do you mean to say that when Mughals ruled India then Arabic was the language of Government of India. What is the coincidence with your this quote. I have quoted the names of all Gurujis. Which is authentic. The name of Gurujis will remain if we name any institutions with name of Guru Nanak Dev ji What is in ASA KI WAR. The political head of India is S. Manmohan Singh, How can you say that Hindu lobby is powerful. How can you say that the Hindu lobby is strong in Punjab. Hon’ble Badal has done for the upliftment of Punjabi it is most disgusting that you have called him TRAITOR. I have never heard about Guru Granth Sahib University. Where the word of Sikh is in this name which has been opposed. Who says the word SIKH so racist and evil?? The irrelevant material is being highlighted by yourgoodself as the name of Guru Nanak Dev Ji what is the matter of hue and cry on this name. I could not understand where the word Sikh is in the name of university of Guru Nanak Dev ji which has been removed.
Again you are making illogical theory that How many DAV colleges of BJP are affiliated to GNDU. Kindly let me know what is the criteria of affiliation to particular university.
All the colleges from Amritsar up to Phillaur are affiliated to Guru Nanak Dev University. There is no pick and choose policy framed by the Government that one can choose the affiliation with particular university. You have been misguided by certain previous conceptions. There is no such option like DAV College Amritsar or DAV college Jalandhar to affiliate to Punjab University or Punjabi University. Why you are trying to misguide the public, I could not understand. How the point of HATE arise in affiliation to the university. Whereas there is no such criteria to opt. How you extracted your own version that DAV colleges are not affiliated to GNDU. DAV College Amritsar and DAV College Jalandhar is affiliated to GNDU due to the areas of affiliation being bifurcated by Punjab Government. Not only DAV college all the colleges of Amritsar, Jalandhar, Phagwara, Phillaur are affiliated to GNDU. All the colleges of Ludhiana will be affiliated to Punjab University, Chandigarh. And all the colleges surrounding to Patiala are affiliated to Punjabi University Patiala.
The question was highlighted that why the circulation of Punjab Kesari with latest circulation details: Average 6,93,266 copies and on Sunday 7,79,144 copies and of Jag Bani Average 3,10,571 copies on average and 3,33,295 copies on Sunday. The current figure is that in the last 3 years the circulation of Hindi newspapers in Punjab has circulation of more than double because the new groups like Jagran, Amra Ujala, Daink Bhaskar are the new entrants in the last 3 years. The cirulation of Hindi newspaper has doubled in three years but Punjabi newspapers circulation could not increase even 5%, this is the point of consideration.

You have tried to hurl a new trump card by diverting the attention to other side. How the point of racists arise. The question not the conversion of Hindus to Islam but the question is regarding Hindi and Punjabi language.
Regards,
Rajneesh

 

[spnadmin]

I don't know about other readers, but on my end, this discussion is turning on specifics and losing sight of the original issues. Maybe I myself am mistaken as to what these issues correctly are.

How many others find themselves confused?

Was not the original point that by losing one's mother tongue one loses one's identity, one's sense of legacy, one's image as reflected in literature and culture?

Does it really matter what the statistics are concerning the numbers of speakers or readers in Hindi, Punjabi or English? It is an historical truth that those who conquer either by war or economics impose a language on the vanquished. And for those who are conquered, and who retain the language that gives them a connection to their roots, are more, not less likely, to overcome cultural humiliation. It is a question of who can hold his/her head up high in the knowledge of who one is, and where one is from, and what collective history binds a soul together.

Correlations can be negative or positive when a language is blotted out or when it is retained, no matter how. And social scientists have studied the correlations between cultural/linguistic dominance and social and economic disintegration.

Thus, we have native american tribes in the US who over a century were shorn of language and culture, and their lives on reservations are plunged into high rates of depression, economic despair, drunkeness and suicide. And we observe the kind cultural integration that persists among the Punjabi speaking diaspora who have feet in two cultures or more at one time and are confident in both. Yet, in Punjab no less we see increasing rates drunkeness and suicide.

p/s Some random questions about linguistic and cultural dominance, that have next to nothing to do with the ability to communicate cross social platforms in India. I have to ask why one cannot find Punjabi on Rosetta Stone? Why there are no decent translation pages for Punjabi to English on Babel and elsewhere? And the big question: Why there is not even one Punjabi to English machine translation platform under development in the brilliant IT corridors of India, but yes it exists for Punjabi to Hindi and not the other way around? Today I can have expert translation by online vendors from Punjabi to English, but I must pay by the page, and it is expensive.

 

[spnadmin]

Thread clean up is due. About one entire page of comments now off topic.