Nadar Karey Jay Apnee | ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ | Sikh Philosophy Network
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Nadar Karey Jay Apnee | ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ

Currently reading:
Nadar Karey Jay Apnee | ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ

Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
52
Likes
19
ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ | Nadar Karey Jay Apnee
Interpreted Using the Gurbani Framework.

The Gurbani Framework calls for the use of GURBANI to understand, explain, translate and interpret GURBANI.

The Gurbani Framework is a response to a variety of distorted translations using Vedantic, Taksalee, Yogic and Literal frameworks – all of which use of sources OUTSIDE of Gurbani to interpret Gurbani.

This article interprets the following Pauree from page 465 of the SGGS ji using the Gurbani Framework.

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਤਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Pauree. Nadar Karey Jey Apnee Ta Nadree Satgur Paya

ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਜਨਮ ਭਰੰਮਿਆ ਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥

Eh Jio Bahutey Janam Bhrumeya Ta Satgur Shabd Sunaeya

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਸਭਿ ਸੁਣਿਅਹੁ ਲੋਕ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥

Satgur Jevad Data Ko Nahi Sabh Suneyo Lok Sbaeya

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਿਨੀ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥

Satgur Mileyey Sach Paiya Jini Vicho Aap Gavaeya

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਬੁਝਾਇਆ ॥ ੪ ॥

Jine Sacho Sach Bujhayea

One of the primary principles of the Gurbani Framework is that the Rahao verse contains the central idea of a Shabd. This verse needs to be understood FIRST. The remaining verses of the Shabd must be interpreted within the CONTEXT of the Rahao verse. This is because the remaining verses revolve around the Rahao verse.

When it comes to Paurees, the FINAL verse of each Pauree functions as the Rahao verse. It contains the gist of the entire Pauree and sets the context for the remaining verses.

The final verse of the Pauree under discussion is:

ਜਿਨਿ ਸਚੋ ਸਚੁ ਬੁਝਾਇਆ ॥ ੪ ॥

Jinn Sacho Sach Bujhayea.

Provided Me with Complete Realization about the Creator.

Note: Most English translations of Gurbani translate SACH as “Truth”. This is inaccurate.

Sach (with an aungkar) refers to God, the Creator. Its origin is Satya (Sanskrit). When used in Gurbani this Sanskrit word takes the forms of SAT (aungkar) and SACH (aungkar and Sihari).

From this final gist verse then, we know that this Pauree is about the spiritual value of SHABD. Because it is the SHABD that provides us with the complete realization of God.

Hence the word SATGUR in this Pauree refers to the God-connecting SHABD as our Guru, or more accurately the MESSAGES within the SHABD.

Now the First Verse:

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਤਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Pauree. Nadar Karey Jey Apnee Ta Nadree Satgur Paya

Nadar: Grace, Blessings. Nadree: By such Grace. Satgur: Sat means God. Gur refers to our Guru who is the Shabd. Satgur therefore means: The God-connecting Messages within the Shabd as our Guru. Paiya: Obtained.

Since the Satgur is the Shabd, therefore the Nadar / Parsaad / Blessings of the Shabad is in the form of ENLIGHTENMENT.

The meaning of the verse is thus:

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਤਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Pauree. Nadar Karey Jey Apnee Ta Nadree Satgur Paya

It is the Grace of the Shabad that I am able to attain its enlightenment.

The 2nd Verse

ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਜਨਮ ਭਰੰਮਿਆ ਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥

Eh Jio Bahutey Janam Bhrumeya Ta Satgur Shabd Sunaeya

The Vedic / Yogic / Taksalee translation is:

This soul wandered through countless incarnations, until the True Guru instructed it in the Word of the Shabad. (Translation by Sant Singh MD)

Comment:

  1. The dictionary meaning of Bahutey is MANY. Not countless. The words for countless in Gurbani is Asankh, Kaytey, Un-Ginet etc. This translation is thus inaccaurate.
  2. The Gurbani translation for EH JIO is “this life”. The concern of Gurbani is MORE for Spiritual Life than mere physical life. JIO is used for life in the following verses:
ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਦੇ ਖਾਜੈ ਆਖਿ ਗਵਾਈਐ ॥ Jio Pind Sabh Tis Da, Dey Khajey Aakh Gavayeah. SGGS 465.
Meaning: My Body and Life within it both belong to Him.

ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਜੀਉ ਅਰਪਾਹਾ ॥ Munn Tunn Praan Jio Arpaha. SGGS 742.
Meaning: I offer my mind, body, breath and Life to You.

  1. The words “BHUTEY JANAM” thus refers to MANY different SPIRITUAL LIFES that seekers of God live while living THIS LIFE (EH JIO).
  2. Gurbani describes coming into the spirituality of Shabd as “being BORN, receiving a NEW JANAM. As in ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੇ ਗਵਨੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ ॥ SATGUR KEY JANUM-EY GAVAN MITAYA. SGGS 940. Being Born into the spirituality of the God-connecting Shabd Guru eliminates the spirituality of wandering / wilderness.
  3. BAHUTEY JANAM is also idiomatic language for a long wait. We say in Punjabi – Putar, Tainu Udeekday Nu Kayee Janam Beet Gaye. Many lives have passed waiting for you, my Son !
  4. There is NO MENTION of “ INCARNATIONS” in this verse. The Vedic / Yogic / Taksalee translations are thus ADDING IT ON THEIR OWN. The word “BAHUTEY” (Many) is being mis-translated as “COUNTLESS” to fit into the 8.4 million “INCARNATIONS” theory.
  5. The Vedic/ Yogic / Taksalee translation says: This soul WANDERED through countless incarnations, UNTIL the “True Guru INSTRUCTED IT in the Word of the Shabd. This means WHEN the True Guru instructed the soul in “the Word of the Shabad” – the SOUL was in a NON HUMAN form. It was thus in some other ANIMAL form. How could an ANIMAL “receive instruction in the Word of the Shabd”? It thus MAKES NO SENSE.
  6. What exactly is the meaning of “instructed in the word of the Shabd” ? It’s a nonsensical arrangements of words to string a meaningless sentence.
  7. The words are ਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ Ta Satgur Shabd Sunaeya. The last letter “R” of Satgur has a sihari. This means the word Satgur is a qualifier of the next word which is Shbad. Since SAT means GOD, then SATGUR means “the God Connecting Guru”. Our Guru is Shabd. The meaning of ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ Satgur (sihari) Shabd therefore is “The God connecting Shabd Guru”
  8. The meaning of the word ਸੁਣਾਇਆ Sunaiya is NOT that someone else says it aloud for us. This (wrong) meaning is what the above mistranslation (Sant Singh MD) is suggesting. He is saying that the Guru “instructed” the shabd when the “soul was wandering through countless incarnations.” That the Guru CERTAINLY DOES NOT INSTRUCT non-human forms in the Shabd aside: we HUMANS (while in HUMAN LIFE) are supposed to READ, LISTEN, UNDERSTAND, BELIEVE and FOLLOW the instructions of the Shabds OURSELVES. The Guru (which is Shabd) does NOT do all these to us. We CHOSE to do it to ourselves.
  9. The Outcome of applying the Vedic / Yogic belief systems to Gurbani ALWAYS results in stuff that MAKES NO SENSE. Which is why greater and greater number of youth; educated and thinking Sikhs; and Gurbani seekers are turning AWAY from Gurbani thinking it MAKES NO SENSE. He fault is not with Gurbani. IT IS WITH THE VEDIC / YOGIC / TAKSALEE Translations. It is very unfortunate that almost ALL the translations / teekas that we have of Gurbani are Vedic / Yogic / Taksalee based.
Applying the GIST as provided in the FINAL verse of the Pauree, the meaning of this first verse is

ਏਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਜਨਮ ਭਰੰਮਿਆ ਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ॥

Eh Jio Bahutey Janam Bhrumeya Ta Satgur Shabd Sunaeya

My Spiritual Life of Searching remained in the Wilderness for Long Periods of Time; the Search ended when I got enlightened listening to the God-connecting Shabd Guru.

The Third Verse:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਕੋ ਨਹੀ ਸਭਿ ਸੁਣਿਅਹੁ ਲੋਕ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥

Satgur Jevad Data Ko Nahi Sabh Suneyo Lok Sbaeya

There is no greater giver of enlightenment than my Shabd Guru, Listen to it (the Shabd) and get enlightened, all seekers of spiritual life!

The Fourth Verse

ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਿਨੀ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥

Satgur Mileyey Sach Paiya Jini Vicho Aap Gavaeya

Satgur – the God Connecting Shabd Guru. Sach – God the Creator. Paiya – Realized. Aap Gavayea – Eliminated the distinction between self and Creator; became one / unified with the Creator.

Upon obtaining the enlightenment of the Shabd Guru I realized the Creator within me and became unified with Him.

POINTS TO NOTE.

1. Gurbani is talking about LIFE HERE and NOW. While the Vedic / Yogic translations are trying to steer Gurbani into LIFE AFTER DEATH. The Vedic / yogic systems are indeed obsessed with LIFE AFTER DEATH; whereas Gurbani is foussed on LIVING LIFE.

2. Vedic, Taksalee and Yogic translations DISTORT Gurbani to the extent that they hijack the UNIQUE spiritual messages of Gurbani; slanting it to REJECTED non-Sikhi belief systems. The ultimate outcome of these mistranslations is the almost complete hijacking of Sikhi. Large majorities of Sikhs today accept these Vedic and Yogic concepts as Sikhi tenets.

3. The hijacking of Gurbani happens through the following methods which may be deliberate or by error;

a) Wrong Translation of Words

b) Changed Concepts;

c) Adding (in the translation) what is NOT contained in the Gurbani Verse

d) Changing the original words in the verse to suit the hijacking

e) Presenting downright Illogical stuff (such as Guru instructed the soul the shabad when it was in a NON HUMAN form !)

4. There is therefore a need to interpret Gurbani as Gurbani; using Gurbani as the only source of reference.

5. Serious lovers of Gurbani – especially those seeking to UNDERSTAND Gurba ni in its ORGINIAL sense would need to WEAN themselves from the Vedic/ Yogic / Taksalee / Literal interpretations.

6. To do this we need to UNLEARN and then RELEARN. Such an effort can be painful as we need to DISCARD long held wrong beliefs. It is made difficult by the fact that we have these Vedic/ Yogic /Taksalee translations all around us. And that a large number of our ragis, parcharaks, granthis and kathakaars are REINFORCING these wrong translations in our Gurdwaras.

End.
 

A_seeker

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
105
Likes
23
Age
34
Note: Most English translations of Gurbani translate SACH as “Truth”. This is inaccurate.

Sach (with an aungkar) refers to God, the Creator. Its origin is Satya (Sanskrit).
Now this is the difficult part to understand for someone who is not aware of the grammar. I would like to know how do we find out that "Sach (with an aungkar) refers to God".How do we research to arrive to this conclusion , because literal translation of Sach everywhere is Truth.
Thanks
 

RD1

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Messages
361
Likes
150
This is an eye-opening article. And its a little disheartening if the mainstream interpretations of Gurbani are inaccurate. There are so many words and interpretations that have been normalized, that its difficult to distinguish what is accurate and what is not.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
5,029
Likes
7,157
Location
Henderson, NV.
This is an eye-opening article. And its a little disheartening if the mainstream interpretations of Gurbani are inaccurate. There are so many words and interpretations that have been normalized, that its difficult to distinguish what is accurate and what is not.
Truth is an eye opener, never disheartening but rather challenging. And yes, we have been talking here at SPN about the distorted translations of the SGGS, our only Guru for years. In order to find accuracy, we need to learn critical thinking, just as our Gurus did.
 

RD1

Writer
SPNer
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Messages
361
Likes
150
Truth is an eye opener, never disheartening but rather challenging. And yes, we have been talking here at SPN about the distorted translations of the SGGS, our only Guru for years. In order to find accuracy, we need to learn critical thinking, just as our Gurus did.
Absolutely! We have to train our minds to always think critically, reflect - not to simply eat what is fed to us.

When we even think more broadly about the world around us, so much of the ignorance that perpetuates is due to that lack of reflection and analysis.
 

gjsingh

SPNer
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
31
Likes
13
Now this is the difficult part to understand for someone who is not aware of the grammar. I would like to know how do we find out that "Sach (with an aungkar) refers to God".How do we research to arrive to this conclusion , because literal translation of Sach everywhere is Truth.
Thanks
I would like to know this also. For whatever it is worth, Google Translate sides with the Vedic/Taksalee/Yogic interpretation!

Google Translate

Well, actually it says it means "really", but closer to the word "truth" in the mundane sense of the word IMO.
I've been slowly going through Karminder Singh's lectures on Japji on Youtube and I find his analysis interesting.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Top