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Discussion in 'Gurmat Vichar' started by Sikh80, Dec 7, 2007.
Spiritual Experience of Naam Simran
Some quick comments:
Much of this seems to focus on prayer and meditation etc. If one spends ones life just in prayer and meditation then is he/she not shying away from reality and life and hence truthful living?
Naam-Simran and other spritual Practices
Earnest spiritual practices — meditation (Naam-Simran or Japa) truthful living, selfless service, selfless love and compassion for all, detachment, devotion, diligent study of the scriptures to know the Truth, Self-inquiry, introspection, Holy Company ("Saadh-Sangat"), being content in all situations etc. — performed with conviction, concentration and humility is said to awaken the Divine Grace and Self-knowledge ("Aatm-Giaan") within; enabling one learn how to use the nutcracker of intuitive perception to crack open the hard shell of the language and ambiguity to get at the kernels of the underlying Truth in the scriptures. The edict of the SGGS is: without realization of Truth, one cannot link back to his True Being within.
The Gurbani has a simple message: there is One, All-pervading God. He is our own Self within the body. The purpose of human life is to understand and know this Truth while alive, "here" and "now", through self-purification and self-observation. Only then we can take off from the levels of ignorance, falsehood and selfishness (negativity and defilements) into the heights of the state free of Haume (false ego-sense), spontaneity ("Sahaj"), perfection in life ("Jeevan Pada") etc. Therefore, by abandoning the realm of relativist consciousness ("Haume"), and realizing the Truth of our True Nature or godly status ("Joti-Svaroopa"), the Teaching of the SGGS (Gurmat) urges us to: live a Divine Life by becoming a spiritual Being ("the Gurmukh"); make the truthful living the core of one's daily life; make the selfless service to the world our prayer; make selfless love for all the greatest devotion; make compassion and mercy for all the noblest conduct; make unsullied Knowledge, humility and contentment temple withing; enshrine the rosary of meditation in the heart; make harmony, peace and integration within and without; realize that the real Self in me is the Self in all — recognize Oneness with the Universal Spirit; realize and enjoy the true Bliss ("Anand"), Peace or Happiness while living in the body (the state of becoming Pure within, living liberated or "Jeevanmukta") not after death, and so on. Otherwise of what good is any practice of religion, spirituality or reading of the scriptures? Also, of what good is one's reasoning and intellect?
You have rightly pointed out and Gurmat emphasizes truthful living. It advises Gursikhs to engage in honest work, share their earnings with other members of the community and always remember Akal Purakh. With the blessing of the Guru one may be able to have an understanding and guidance of Gur Shabd for wading through the forces of evil in this tempestuous sea of life called world.
Regarding your 'quick comment' :Naam simran/jap has to be practicsed along with the other spritual deeds. However in the Above post the author has even given the time frame within which Simran/jap/meditation is to be carried out.It is prescribed in the post one above your post.
The mind feels perfect peace and gets inebriated with the joy of bliss that defy description. This advanced stage of spiritual development is called stage of ‘SAHAJ’. From this last stage of Simran first stage of "GYAN’ starts and the seeker starts having a number of mystic experiences. But the seeker has to guard against the delusions of this stage viz (1) Ceasing of Simran gives the impression that it is waste of time as there is no worship of God without Simran (2) The seeker is gripped by the sleep of ease called ‘TANDRA’ and seeker is deluded to believe that he has reached the final stage of spiritual progress. This writer follows in details the methodology suggested by Late Sant Attar Singh Mastuana and Baba Nand Singh Kleran helped him to come out of first delusion regarding waste of time. Edward Carpenter’s book ‘A Visit to a Gyani’ redeemed him from the delusion of ‘TANDRA’.
Naam Japnah is a mechinism to cultivate Gurmat thought process so that we can thrive by living in the Miri/Piri concept. This Gurmat fulcrum-Sehaj can only be attained by this thought process- our fuel that leads us to the Sikhi Marg.
If Naam Japnah does not create this, then there are a couple of glitches in our mechanisim.
Extracts from Life of a devotee in relation to naam Jaap
Upasak Ka Anteric Jeevan - English Version
a really excellent thread... thanks so much for all of the valuable input.
Now I admit to being clueless. Upon following the link provided by Sikh80 I discovered the teachings are those of Sree Swami Satyanand Ji Maharaj
Further investigation revealed the following information from the first google hit.
Shree Swami Satyanand Ji Maharaj, the founder of Shree Ram Sharnam, was born in 1861 in Rawalpindi. He had lost his parents in his early childhood. At the young age of 17, he took up the company of spiritual teachers of Jain faith. In 1891, at the age of 30, he joined the Arya Samaj, and studied Vedanta, Upanishads, and other sacred epics.
Later in the same article I found this
Swami Ji initiated Sadhna Satsangs for serious devotees to practice detachment, devotion, purity of body and mind, and healthy living habits. The first Sadhna Satsang was held in Haridwar, followed by many camps all over India. On November 13, 1960 while chanting "Ram Naam", Swamiji gave up his physical body after transferring his Spiritual Powers to his dear disciple Shree Prem Ji Maharaj, and designating him as the one to replace him. Shree Swamiji’s body was immersed in the Holy Ganges at Neel-Dhara near Haridwar, which has since become a unique Holy Place for all Amritvani devotees.
It is clear that the post is speaking of Nam Jap in a Vedantic tradition that is not Sikh -- and this needs to be made clear. It matters because the Swami in question upon his death installed a successor. So we are looking at a case of Guru in Human Form.
Seeker80, or anyone, what distinction need we draw between the message posted and Gurmat? Between the guruship of a human being, and the shabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib?
The following link raises questions in a straightforward way.
Guru Rating Service
I have given the address of the site for the purpose of reference. If you read the entire site and then quote from the site and ask the question related to the site it may be improper for me to indulge in any kind of speculation as I did not have theluxury of time and nor the intention of researching the site.
I have given the reference for the purpose of identifying the source. Naam jap is very much prevalent in many eastern religions. In the present write up of mine the extracts of 'devotees life' has been taken that are relevant to this thread. The post talks of the significance of the Jaap.
The benefits ,that accrue to a Hindu devotee, would also accrue to a sikh devotee or anybody else.
Yes, the only difference is in the object of jap. In case of sikhs it is the 'guru mantra', 'Beej mantra' , Mool Mantra or even entire Gurbani or Naam. It is one's choice. None can interfere in these matters.
There is no specific methodoly followed in the thread under question. We can always take up good things to the extent that suits a sikh. One can continue with the manner of practice that one prefers. No one stops anyone.
Our SGGS ji contains the Bani of many Saints who were not sikhs like Nam dev, Kabir sahib and even Muslims like Sheikh Farid. If the sikhs highest scripture includes the philosphical banis of these saintly personalities it stands to reason that one can read and follow that is as per sikhi. Our Guru sahibaans had a futuristic vision. Many non-sikhs have started following Sikhism for their benefits. Sikhi is universal. In nutshell, we are free to do all that sikhi teaches us and discard that is irrelevant to sikhi. You are free to discard that you feel is not as per sikhi. To me everything is as per sikhi as the post touches at the fringes the significance of Naam jap. It does not teach the method that is to be followed. One cannot standardise the method of naam jaap. Though some are discussed here.
AJAPA JAAP « Khalsa Panth
Let's return to Sri Guru Granth Sahib for a moment. A human guru is not only unnecessary, it is actually outside of the framework of Gurmat. What gives Sikhism its futuristic vision is liberation from spiritual dependence on another human being.
If you are a Sikh, then a jumble of spiritual sadhanas is not for you. Because your face is turned toward the Guru.
Respected aad2000 ji,
You are cent percent correct in whatever you say and mean. I may be cent percent incorrect in giving a reference of a site that states that it is very important to carry on with nam jaap as a routine. I should have consulted some sikhi site.
It is almost like this:
1.Guru sahib says that we should be honest and a good human being.
2.Some vedantic site says that we should be clean at heart.
Both statement will include one another. One cannot be a good human being without being clean at heart.
similarly one cannot be clean at heart without a good human being.
On a wider plane does it matter? My God cannot be other than his God.I do not think that our waheguru and Allah are two entities. It cannot be.
Again it is stated that you are cent percent correct and I was wrong in that I have stated by posting something form a Vedantic site. Incidentally the science of soul, the theory of Karma and re-incarnations and the their philosphy existed much before sikhism came into being. We have banned Gita and vedas but SGGS ji makes a reference to Vedas at many places.
At the end I conclude that I shall not post things from Vedantic sites simply because they are vedantic site.
I think there is a communication Gap.
You cannot mean that 'naam jap' by Vedantic philosphy is different than 'naam jap' of sikhs.Vedantic philosphy is older than sikhism.
In any case it shall be better to put a stop for a while and let us proceed as usual.
I need be forgiven for the sin that I have committed.
In the meantime I thank Kelly_kaur ji for her kind words which were missed by me as these were eclipsced by some post.
[SIZE=-1]Nam Japna (Meditation or contemplation on the Name of God)[/SIZE]
Sikh Missionary Society(U.K.) - Sikhism - Principles - Nam Japna (Meditation or contemplation on the Name of God)
Please don't jump to the conclusion that you have committed a sin. And anyone is free to post from vedantic sites. You said "Maybe there is a communication gap?" Maybe I was too hard on you. You have a tender soul.
My point is only that clarification is needed when the naam jap is inspired by a human who is regarded as a Satgur. In Sikhi naam jap is inspired by the shabd of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, not a human being. And Vedantic beliefs and practices are older than Sikhism, yes. But Sikhism is not the child or offspring or a subdivision or a sect of Vedantic philosophy. There are major differences. So the distinction needs to be made clear. That is all I am saying.
But please don't take my comments as directed at you personally. They are nothing more than my understanding of where we need to be focused.
"AJAPPAA JAAP": UNCHANTED CHANT
Ajappa Jaap: Unchanted Chant
I once asked a 70 year old Sikh gentleman as to what naam is to him?
He said, follow what's written in the Guru Granth Sahib. Har Naam, Har, Har, Har, Har.
I asked him what about Waheguru ? He said its ok to say other names - whatever is written in SGGS is acceptable as Naam Japna - Like Allah, ishvar, prabh, narayan, etc - otherwise they wouldn't appear in the SGGS.
When I asked him that they could be metaphors, and he said - arguments are all created by mind (manmukhs).
The Gurmukhs - don't question. They follow simple instructions in the SGGS.
Asked how should one Jap Naam?
His answer is - treat every breath as your last and remember God in that intensity. Don't analyse anything because mind will take charge again and keep you in delusion.
He must be a truthful person and not beyond this. Do U think that sikhi needs that kind of Heros.? Pl. give our view point as well.
Please clarify....are you saying if I followed the Bani of only Kabir I would be still a Sikh?