headway,
your reply is full of typical hindu propaganda so let me "enlighten" you with a little something i like to call the TRUTH.
<<<<<[2]i dont know what hindu spoon-fed propaganda you've read but i'll tell you that it was the rajputs (whom you sikhs are actually modelled after) who were the opposition to "islam" as you say. this so-called opposition began with prithviraj chahuhan's failed attempts to assassinate moinuddin chisti of ajmer and it idealogically continues to this day.
[2]
[a] Hindu propaganda and I don't mix-Sorry you are barking up the wrong tree.
[b Chauhan Failed--period -Sikhs succeeded. THEY tried and whipmpered.
[c] Two big clans of Rajputs existed-History states that. They both took different road when defeated. One from Jaipur started marrying their daughters to Moghal Kings--How convenient!
The others from further west [kin to Jaipurias] put all women chidlren to fire inside the fort. At least soem guts shown.
Sikhs fought for those daughters all the way to kabul. Millions of girls were sold in Baghdad, Basra and Kabul markets. We have even these in our songs that womne ar etaken away to Basra and beloved weep.>>>>>>>
oh please! save this garbage for someone else. first of all, millions of girls are still sold in markets all over india and pakistan. secondly, don't even try to tell me that high caste hindus and sikhs alike have nothing to do with the abuse of low caste peoples of the subcontinent (including their women). have you heard of the case of one phoolan devi?
and far as rajputs are concerned, last i checked the last name "singh" is over a millenia old and sikh "singh" has only been around 1699. do the math. sikhs ARE modelled after rajputs. you can't possibly deny it.
<<<<<[3] regardless the biggest opposition to the invading turkomen tribes were the pathans who incidentally were also the biggest headache for babur and subsequent mughals. go read your history again buddy.
[3] I guess Gaznavi [from City of Gazni] and other people coem to mind when i think of it. If Pathhans had done their job then Inida would have been free from Muslims!
I guess soemhow either Pathhans complied or were defeated and joined the looters. Iranian And Turkish coffers are filled with Inidian treasures to date--Pea{censored} Throne comes to mind.>>>>>
i think you need a lesson on real history. pathans DID fight back the turks. thats why there are very few left in afghanistan. proof for example, both ghor and ghazni are once again pashtun dominated.
as far as pathan bravery is concerned, last i checked it was the sultan lodhi who kept genghis khan's armies out of india. and it was again sher shah suri of bihar who, for a brief period at least, ended mughal reign in india. even tipu sultan was an orakzai pashtun. i don't hear of any hindu or sikhs making such claims. the only decent non-muslim warrior nation to arise from there are the gurkhas
for centuries, pathans and other sufi/shia peoples of northwest indian frontier were constantly oppressed by mughals who sent their rajput cronnies to suppress rebellions. they were notorious for wiping out entire villages but each time these "singhs" were sent packing and thus you wont find a single rajput in all of pashtunistan. even hari singh nalwa, the butcher who use to hang muslims every day from the mahabat mosque in peshawar, was sent to the next "janam" at jamrud. this is no lie, my brother. there are NO sikhs or punjabis in pathan tribal areas even though pathans are spread all over india.
on a side note, there is a sizeable sikh community in cities of afghanistan. but their loyalty is to their watan and afghanyat, and i reckon they would spit on hindu sycophants and liars like yourself.
<<<<<[4] AHAHHAHAHAAH!
Muslim conversions Peaceful? Have I missed out on 1000 years of rape, pillage, murder? The wrod 'Assasin' came from Islamic culture and peole were called Hashishans-go read your history. It was a PBS special too.
Budhhidm conversions peasceful? Don't make me laugh. Why not try peaceful methods now in Israel, IRaq, Iran, Pakistan, USA Europe?
If these fanatics could do stuff liek 9-11 NOW, imagine what they accomplished 100 years ago.
Peacefull muslims in Iran wiped out Zorostrians like that too-Another TV special. Bye the way last 500000 or so Zorostrians survive in India but not a single on in Iran beacuse it was too peaceful for their liking and they left. These Zorostrians don't understand peace I guess.
BY the way Sikhism believes conversions without force thast why so few of us. Islam says convert or be killed. Guru Gobind Singh's 7 and 9 year old dangerous {censored} sons come to mind! December 1605 they were murdered by a peaceful muslim ruler fo sarhind. They were to be spared and married off to princesses if they had accepted Islam. Alas! Two little children had more guts then Jaipuri Rajputs and deceided to die instead.>>>>>
[Admin Cut: Everybody, please avoid profanity, i am sure you can do much better than this
] no doubt you know no irani whatsover otherwise you'll know that iran still has a sizeable zorasterian population. the entire country celebrates navroz, the zoroastrian new year, with rituals that go back thousands of years. so please, don't say stuff unless you actually know anything about anything.
btw... your beloved guru wouldnt even be alive if it wasnt for ghani khan and nabi khan. yes, i'm sure you've heard how his "brave" sikhs ran away like a bunch of girls and mian mir had to dispatch his pathan followers to save gobind singh. again, if your guru had such a {censored}fit about islam then why is the sword of hazrat ali shown off at anandpur sahib? (which was given to him by the mughal emperor... so much for making peace with the guys who killed his children) some guru you have.
again i have to keep reminding you about rajputs. guru hargobind of yours was locked up in gwalior. when he got out with his band of rajput princes, it was after this that you sikhs actually became a real army. you were a joke before that and you have been a joke ever since you sold your land and arms to the british.
as far as conversions go. baba farid shakar ganj himself converted 17 jat tribes to islam. and he was a fakir. the randhawa jats are in fact descendants of pir biddho. then there are naqshbandis and qadiris who converted afghans. those are sufi tariqas, my misguided hindu friend. moinuddin chisti himself converted thousands of hindus. then there is the case of baba madho lal hussein of lahore and his duel with hindu sadhus.
i think you're just jealous because no one wants to join a fake wannabee-sufi cult like religion of yours where you take sufi rituals/concepts and stylize them with hindu names and voila!! a separate "religion"
<<<<<[7] You have proven that not only are you ignorant of Indian History from a neutral point of view you aslo don't know beans about Indian Geography.
The budhhists largely killed by Shankracharya were around UP to Lahore not from Afghanistan. Those were 'peacefully' removed from there like the Afghanistani 'peaceful Removal of Budhha Statues.>>>>>
huh, are you telling me it was HINDUS who made those statues in afghanistan in the first place?? [Admin Cut: Everybody, please avoid profanity] pathans have been there since time immemorial. even herodotus (alexander's scribe) recounts them being native to afghanistan. the destruction of the bamiyan statues was a tragedy but it is a targedy for afghan culture NOT a bunch of animal worshipping hindus. there are still plenty of buddhist temples and artifacts that taliban didn't touch. the taliban ofcourse is paki-punjabi sponsered. you know, the trash we muslims ended up with when you hindus and sikhs decided to dump your religions in 1947.
<<<<<[1] I dunno! Is it me or some other people have a problem with the word PEACEFUL and the way people have used it for last 1400 years?
[2] If peaceful methods are so popular with Islamic World then how come not asingle democratic Muslim country exists?
[3] What God given right does any religion have to kill innocents? 9-11, Sikhs killing Hindus, or HIndus killing muslims are sick examples of great religions.>>>>>
hmmm... i thought iran just had elections. then there is malaysia. also nigeria. morroco. but what do you care. at least muslims have countries of their own. they don't go around jumping bandwagons like your people. who suck up to india when they're in india, then all of a sudden grow a backbone when they come to the west and "demand" khalistan. :rofl!!:
<<<<<[5] and if you sikhs hate muslims so much then why literally STEAL the concept of langar, degh, and sama (kirtan) from us. and oh yea,
[5] Sorry pal yuo are completely wrong- I don't hate Islam or Mohhammed Sahib Ji [PBUH} and His message but what people did with his message and the way they used it.>>>>>
you have been anti-muslim in your entire post and now you're going to tell me you don't hate islam??? people like you blame all the evils of your society on muslims. i can't stand nonsense like "muslims killed us for a 1000 years." no, they didn't. you were killing yourselves for a thousand years. ghaznvi's armies were filled with non-muslim jats and afghans. mughal armies were practically ALL rajput. even ranjit singh's punjabi army wasn't completely sikh.
rajputs robbed each other's temples and abducted women. ashoka was a genocidal maniac plus his harem exceeded that of akbar's. the marathas pillaged rajputs and their women in rajasthan unabated for almost a century. it was chauhan's own kin and blood of kanauj who turned him over to ghori. hell, genghis khan, hitler, stalin, etc. these weren't muslims. khan was a buddhist and hitler was a vegetarian for god's sakes. man you hindus (and their self-styled protectors: sikhs) really need to snap out of it.
in the end, i'll leave you with this. i had read that guru gobind singh built masjids, he was awarded the sword of hazrat ali by bahadur shah, and guru nanak had a chola with quran inscribed all over it. all of these are preserved to this day so don't try to deny it. but i challenge any hindu and sikh out there to find me any artifact from the gurus' that links any of them to hinduism or brahmanism. find me anything. any mandir they might have built? any statues of gods/goddesses? if you sikhs can't find anything then stop taking out your frustrations on islam and muslims because you are misrepresenting your own religion by swallowing the propaganda of arya samaj (whose swami dayanand was killed by a muslim but thats another story).
have a nice day
your reply is full of typical hindu propaganda so let me "enlighten" you with a little something i like to call the TRUTH.
<<<<<[2]i dont know what hindu spoon-fed propaganda you've read but i'll tell you that it was the rajputs (whom you sikhs are actually modelled after) who were the opposition to "islam" as you say. this so-called opposition began with prithviraj chahuhan's failed attempts to assassinate moinuddin chisti of ajmer and it idealogically continues to this day.
[2]
[a] Hindu propaganda and I don't mix-Sorry you are barking up the wrong tree.
[b Chauhan Failed--period -Sikhs succeeded. THEY tried and whipmpered.
[c] Two big clans of Rajputs existed-History states that. They both took different road when defeated. One from Jaipur started marrying their daughters to Moghal Kings--How convenient!
The others from further west [kin to Jaipurias] put all women chidlren to fire inside the fort. At least soem guts shown.
Sikhs fought for those daughters all the way to kabul. Millions of girls were sold in Baghdad, Basra and Kabul markets. We have even these in our songs that womne ar etaken away to Basra and beloved weep.>>>>>>>
oh please! save this garbage for someone else. first of all, millions of girls are still sold in markets all over india and pakistan. secondly, don't even try to tell me that high caste hindus and sikhs alike have nothing to do with the abuse of low caste peoples of the subcontinent (including their women). have you heard of the case of one phoolan devi?
and far as rajputs are concerned, last i checked the last name "singh" is over a millenia old and sikh "singh" has only been around 1699. do the math. sikhs ARE modelled after rajputs. you can't possibly deny it.
<<<<<[3] regardless the biggest opposition to the invading turkomen tribes were the pathans who incidentally were also the biggest headache for babur and subsequent mughals. go read your history again buddy.
[3] I guess Gaznavi [from City of Gazni] and other people coem to mind when i think of it. If Pathhans had done their job then Inida would have been free from Muslims!
I guess soemhow either Pathhans complied or were defeated and joined the looters. Iranian And Turkish coffers are filled with Inidian treasures to date--Pea{censored} Throne comes to mind.>>>>>
i think you need a lesson on real history. pathans DID fight back the turks. thats why there are very few left in afghanistan. proof for example, both ghor and ghazni are once again pashtun dominated.
as far as pathan bravery is concerned, last i checked it was the sultan lodhi who kept genghis khan's armies out of india. and it was again sher shah suri of bihar who, for a brief period at least, ended mughal reign in india. even tipu sultan was an orakzai pashtun. i don't hear of any hindu or sikhs making such claims. the only decent non-muslim warrior nation to arise from there are the gurkhas
for centuries, pathans and other sufi/shia peoples of northwest indian frontier were constantly oppressed by mughals who sent their rajput cronnies to suppress rebellions. they were notorious for wiping out entire villages but each time these "singhs" were sent packing and thus you wont find a single rajput in all of pashtunistan. even hari singh nalwa, the butcher who use to hang muslims every day from the mahabat mosque in peshawar, was sent to the next "janam" at jamrud. this is no lie, my brother. there are NO sikhs or punjabis in pathan tribal areas even though pathans are spread all over india.
on a side note, there is a sizeable sikh community in cities of afghanistan. but their loyalty is to their watan and afghanyat, and i reckon they would spit on hindu sycophants and liars like yourself.
<<<<<[4] AHAHHAHAHAAH!
Muslim conversions Peaceful? Have I missed out on 1000 years of rape, pillage, murder? The wrod 'Assasin' came from Islamic culture and peole were called Hashishans-go read your history. It was a PBS special too.
Budhhidm conversions peasceful? Don't make me laugh. Why not try peaceful methods now in Israel, IRaq, Iran, Pakistan, USA Europe?
If these fanatics could do stuff liek 9-11 NOW, imagine what they accomplished 100 years ago.
Peacefull muslims in Iran wiped out Zorostrians like that too-Another TV special. Bye the way last 500000 or so Zorostrians survive in India but not a single on in Iran beacuse it was too peaceful for their liking and they left. These Zorostrians don't understand peace I guess.
BY the way Sikhism believes conversions without force thast why so few of us. Islam says convert or be killed. Guru Gobind Singh's 7 and 9 year old dangerous {censored} sons come to mind! December 1605 they were murdered by a peaceful muslim ruler fo sarhind. They were to be spared and married off to princesses if they had accepted Islam. Alas! Two little children had more guts then Jaipuri Rajputs and deceided to die instead.>>>>>
[Admin Cut: Everybody, please avoid profanity, i am sure you can do much better than this
] no doubt you know no irani whatsover otherwise you'll know that iran still has a sizeable zorasterian population. the entire country celebrates navroz, the zoroastrian new year, with rituals that go back thousands of years. so please, don't say stuff unless you actually know anything about anything.btw... your beloved guru wouldnt even be alive if it wasnt for ghani khan and nabi khan. yes, i'm sure you've heard how his "brave" sikhs ran away like a bunch of girls and mian mir had to dispatch his pathan followers to save gobind singh. again, if your guru had such a {censored}fit about islam then why is the sword of hazrat ali shown off at anandpur sahib? (which was given to him by the mughal emperor... so much for making peace with the guys who killed his children) some guru you have.
again i have to keep reminding you about rajputs. guru hargobind of yours was locked up in gwalior. when he got out with his band of rajput princes, it was after this that you sikhs actually became a real army. you were a joke before that and you have been a joke ever since you sold your land and arms to the british.
as far as conversions go. baba farid shakar ganj himself converted 17 jat tribes to islam. and he was a fakir. the randhawa jats are in fact descendants of pir biddho. then there are naqshbandis and qadiris who converted afghans. those are sufi tariqas, my misguided hindu friend. moinuddin chisti himself converted thousands of hindus. then there is the case of baba madho lal hussein of lahore and his duel with hindu sadhus.
i think you're just jealous because no one wants to join a fake wannabee-sufi cult like religion of yours where you take sufi rituals/concepts and stylize them with hindu names and voila!! a separate "religion"
<<<<<[7] You have proven that not only are you ignorant of Indian History from a neutral point of view you aslo don't know beans about Indian Geography.
The budhhists largely killed by Shankracharya were around UP to Lahore not from Afghanistan. Those were 'peacefully' removed from there like the Afghanistani 'peaceful Removal of Budhha Statues.>>>>>
huh, are you telling me it was HINDUS who made those statues in afghanistan in the first place?? [Admin Cut: Everybody, please avoid profanity] pathans have been there since time immemorial. even herodotus (alexander's scribe) recounts them being native to afghanistan. the destruction of the bamiyan statues was a tragedy but it is a targedy for afghan culture NOT a bunch of animal worshipping hindus. there are still plenty of buddhist temples and artifacts that taliban didn't touch. the taliban ofcourse is paki-punjabi sponsered. you know, the trash we muslims ended up with when you hindus and sikhs decided to dump your religions in 1947.
<<<<<[1] I dunno! Is it me or some other people have a problem with the word PEACEFUL and the way people have used it for last 1400 years?
[2] If peaceful methods are so popular with Islamic World then how come not asingle democratic Muslim country exists?
[3] What God given right does any religion have to kill innocents? 9-11, Sikhs killing Hindus, or HIndus killing muslims are sick examples of great religions.>>>>>
hmmm... i thought iran just had elections. then there is malaysia. also nigeria. morroco. but what do you care. at least muslims have countries of their own. they don't go around jumping bandwagons like your people. who suck up to india when they're in india, then all of a sudden grow a backbone when they come to the west and "demand" khalistan. :rofl!!:
<<<<<[5] and if you sikhs hate muslims so much then why literally STEAL the concept of langar, degh, and sama (kirtan) from us. and oh yea,
[5] Sorry pal yuo are completely wrong- I don't hate Islam or Mohhammed Sahib Ji [PBUH} and His message but what people did with his message and the way they used it.>>>>>
you have been anti-muslim in your entire post and now you're going to tell me you don't hate islam??? people like you blame all the evils of your society on muslims. i can't stand nonsense like "muslims killed us for a 1000 years." no, they didn't. you were killing yourselves for a thousand years. ghaznvi's armies were filled with non-muslim jats and afghans. mughal armies were practically ALL rajput. even ranjit singh's punjabi army wasn't completely sikh.
rajputs robbed each other's temples and abducted women. ashoka was a genocidal maniac plus his harem exceeded that of akbar's. the marathas pillaged rajputs and their women in rajasthan unabated for almost a century. it was chauhan's own kin and blood of kanauj who turned him over to ghori. hell, genghis khan, hitler, stalin, etc. these weren't muslims. khan was a buddhist and hitler was a vegetarian for god's sakes. man you hindus (and their self-styled protectors: sikhs) really need to snap out of it.
in the end, i'll leave you with this. i had read that guru gobind singh built masjids, he was awarded the sword of hazrat ali by bahadur shah, and guru nanak had a chola with quran inscribed all over it. all of these are preserved to this day so don't try to deny it. but i challenge any hindu and sikh out there to find me any artifact from the gurus' that links any of them to hinduism or brahmanism. find me anything. any mandir they might have built? any statues of gods/goddesses? if you sikhs can't find anything then stop taking out your frustrations on islam and muslims because you are misrepresenting your own religion by swallowing the propaganda of arya samaj (whose swami dayanand was killed by a muslim but thats another story).
have a nice day
