Mona And Sehajdhari

[kaur-1]

The rehat maryada??? We follow that today? I don't see any mention of the SGGS in the quote. i always thought we should follow the SGGS and guru ji!

Well that is just pure BS.

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is mentioned in the word "naam"[shabad guru] and "Guru Sahib" is also mentioned.

I dont think one can call "rehat" BS . Rehat is a discipline or code of conduct similar concept to one we have in school or the army etc.

From my understanding, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the 10 Guru and if we dont accept Guru ji's stating that Guru Ji's roop will be found in the Khalsa and Guru ji's essence in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji then we are saying that there never was the tenth Guru or even Guru Nanak Dev Ji (as they were all one in essence).

I could be wrong here but in my understanding, there are several mentions of what we can term rehat ie discipline in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Are we thus saying that these are also BS?

For eg:Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji age 305:SearchGurbani.com

Gaurhee Guru Ram Das
mÚ 4 ]
ma 4 ||
Fourth Mehl:

gur siqgur kw jo isKu AKwey su Blky auiT hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
gur sathigur kaa jo sikh akhaaeae s bhalakae outh har naam dhhiaavai ||
One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru the True Guru shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

audmu kry Blky prBwqI iesnwnu kry AMimRq sir nwvY ]
oudham karae bhalakae parabhaathee eisanaan karae anmrith sar naavai ||
Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

aupdyis gurU hir hir jpu jwpY siB iklivK pwp doK lih jwvY ]
oupadhaes guroo har har jap jaapai sabh kilavikh paap dhokh lehi jaavai ||
Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

iPir cVY idvsu gurbwxI gwvY bhidAw auTidAw hir nwmu iDAwvY ]
fir charrai dhivas gurabaanee gaavai behadhiaa outhadhiaa har naam dhhiaavai ||
Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

jo swis igrwis iDAwey myrw hir hir so gurisKu gurU min BwvY ]
jo saas giraas dhhiaaeae maeraa har har so gurasikh guroo man bhaavai ||
One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.
ijs no dieAwlu hovY myrw suAwmI iqsu gurisK gurU aupdysu suxwvY ]
jis no dhaeiaal hovai maeraa suaamee this gurasikh guroo oupadhaes sunaavai ||
That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

jnu nwnku DUiV mMgY iqsu gurisK kI jo Awip jpY Avrh nwmu jpwvY ]2]
jan naanak dhhoorr mangai this gurasikh kee jo aap japai avareh naam japaavai ||2||
Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||


If for eg we dont follow the above or even more importantly, accept and "live" the teachings in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, should we put "Other" rather then a "Sikh" in 'state your religion' section on forms we fill out.?

This topic is heading mona and sahejdhari. As regards to being a mona(a person with cut head hair) and calling ourselves Sikhs is simple stating that we are rejecting that there was ever the tenth Guru, panj piara's etc. How can we just reject our Guru? If we reject one Guru then we are rejecting all the 10 Guru's.....

 

[Veeru]

As regards to being a mona(a person with cut head hair) and calling ourselves Sikhs is simple stating that we are rejecting that there was ever the tenth Guru, panj piara's etc..

Do you do everything gurus did? Do you know what would have happened if you did?

Also, it's really important to know the reason why Guru Gobind Singh Ji encouraged growing hair. Does anybody know the reason why? We also need to see if keeping the hair in today's society has the same effect as it did then.

 

[Bijla Singh]

I clearly stated that if a person takes Amrit and follows the rehat only then he/she is a Sikh. If one takes Amrit and never follows the rehat then clearly he is not a Sikh. A Sikh is a saint-soldier not a smuggler or terrorist. Show me one line in any of my posts where I stated that terrorists can be Sikhs. Sikhi is pure truth and truth never changes over time. So the excuse that there is no need to keep hair in today's world is rubbish. Sikhi doesn't change over time nor does it need to. Hand written account of Bhai Jeevan Singh clearly explains how Amrit was prepared and what rehat was given. Rehat Maryada of 1925 wasn't an invention but a written document based upon practiced rehat which comes from rehatnamas and tankhanamas. Also, work of Bhai Gurdas Ji is very useful in understanding Gurmat. Documents written down by Gursikhs were written for a reason. History books were written by gursikhs so would you reject them also on the basis that Guru Sahib never wrote them? Gurbani clearly states that without Naam no can be liberated. The only way to obtain naam is by becoming a Guru wala. No one in the world can disprove this fact using Gurbani. Guru Sahib established a simple way to adopt a Guru i.e. to take Amrit. I am guruwala because I took Amrit and I try my best to follow the rehat I was told. This is how I know I am son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Guru Sahib's Khalsa Mahima clearly explains who a real Khalsa is - one who keeps internal and external rehat. There are no two sets of rehats - one for monay and one for Amritdharis. Not keeping hair would’ve saved thousands of lives in 18th century and would’ve made lives of Sikhs easier but they kept their rehat because it was Hukam of Guru Sahib. Khalsa is made niyara and unique. Only Khalsa is roop of Guru Sahib not anyone else. If you don't want to follow Guru Sahib then that is your choice but then you will not be a Sikh. It doesn't mean you will be a bad person or inferior to others. It simply means that you won't be a Sikh. Making excuses won’t get you anywhere. You can only satisfy yourself but that won’t change the facts. Unless you have some concrete evidence from acceptable Sikh sources to prove that Sikhi does not require rehat this discussion won’t go anywhere. Have a happy life. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Veeru]

I clearly stated that if a person takes Amrit and follows the rehat only then he/she is a Sikh.

So what is it that one is supposed to achieve by following so-called Rehat Maryada?

Have you achieved what someone is supposed to achieve following Rehat Maryada?

I am guruwala because I took Amrit and I try my best to follow the rehat I was told.

Do you become guruwala because you have done something that you think Guru likes it or do you become guruwala because Guru has accepted you?

 

[Archived_Member_19]

thanks for accepting that Ranjit Singh was not a sikh..

what a sad blow to Khalistanis who trumpet the Maharaja's rule as kingdom of sikhs...and that they are fighting to get it back....you can trwal many sites on net which have the khalistani literature citing Sikh soverignity using the Ranjit singh rule logic....

coming back to the discussion,

i donot think that anyone needs a "certificate" from anyone to call himself a sikh. Whoever wants, can very well call himself one

i think atleast in india, during census they donot ask a person to show how much he has been observing rehat.... don't know to what limit they will go into in the dreamland of Khalistan

and coming back to solid proofs,

bijla ji,

Can you prove a SOLID proof stating that a Mona is not a Guru wala..... and how exactly a person gets to know that He/she has become Guruwala...is it an external thing?

or is it something deep within ?



ofcourse you will cite Rehats..but that would be a mere repetition... you may like to share some experiences you had after you became a "Guruwala" in your definition....



opinion are welcome

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Rehat is a discipline or code of conduct similar concept to one we have in school or the army etc.
>>

kaur1 ji

sikhi is not some army or school..

we all are tired of such corollaries

 

[Archived_member7]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Satsriakaalji Saadh Sangat

Here is our greatness...how great we are !!! We are ok with muslims worshipping Guru Nanakji in Pakistan with their mulla caps and chaddar..which is not sikhi...but if the Hindu woships Sikhi ..this is how we treat him ...!!!!![/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Sikh group attacks multi-faith temples[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

A Sikh campaign group recently stormed two temples to remove the Guru Granth Sahib from the premises, on the pretext that the Sikh holy book should not be present at premises where 'non-Sikh worship' takes place.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The two temples were the Ek Nivas temple in Wolverhampton, which serves a mixed Hindu and Sikh congregation, and the Guru Wadbagh Singh Trust Gurudwara in Greenford. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Both premises were attacked on Sunday 10th December. According to eyewitness reports, around 400 Sikh men surrounded the Ek Nivas temple, some of who threw stones, causing some minor injuries to two temple workers. Some murthis (images) of Hindu deities were also damaged. A smaller group, of about 30 individuals, mostly in their late-twenties, were involved in the incident at the Gurudwara in Greenford. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]According to Mataji Kanwaljeet Kaur, head priestess of the Wolverhampton temple, she was verbally abused and intimidated by the campaigners.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

"We didn't have the Granth Sahib on the premises. What they took is called pothiyan, which are chapters from the holybook that anybody can buy from any shop." she added.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Guru Granth Sahib (or the sections of it present on the premises) were removed and taken to other Gurudwaras, which the campaigners consider to adhere to Sikhism in a 'purer' form, and therefore be a more suitable place to house the holy book.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The 'Respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Campaign' made headlines last year for attacking some Sikh wedding parties. The group aims to protect the Sikh holy book, which Sikhs consider to be their living Guru, from disrespect. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Their current campaign is to prevent Sikh or Hindu temples (gurudwaras and mandirs) from having a copy of the SGGS at their premises, if the worship of 'Hindu idols' also takes place in the same area. The group has threatened to target two other temples in coming weeks. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Guru Nanakji condemns all idol worship and to have the Guru Granth Sahibji in the same area is absolutely disgraceful," commented a spokesperson for the campaign group.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]According to their website, the 'Respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahibji Campaign' distance themselves from any violence that occurred, but say that they will continue to search out places where the Guru Granth Sahib is placed alongside the worship of idols.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The wider issue[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The latest string of attacks on temples, are very worrying. There are dozens of mandirs and gurudwaras in Britain in which the Guru Granth Sahib is displayed alongside either the worship of Hindu deities (such as Rama, Shiva or Durga) or the study of other forms of Hindu scripture. It is a tradition dating back centuries, and it is a potentially huge security issue for the Hindus and Sikhs who use these temples if all of them are going to be attacked in a similar way.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In their quest to maintain and consolidate the identity of Sikhism as a totally different and unrelated religion to Hinduism, they are indulging in intolerant acts that do not have a parallel anywhere in Sikh religion or history.[/FONT]

 

[kaur-1]

<<Rehat is a discipline or code of conduct similar concept to one we have in school or the army etc.
>>

kaur1 ji

sikhi is not some army or school..

we all are tired of such corollaries

Waheguru ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji Ki Fateh

If you read my statement again, its clearly does not say Sikhi is some army or school. All I am explaining is the word "rehat" ie discipline or code of conduct.

But at the end of the day, its really up to you as an individual to keep rehat or not.

I am sorry that you are so tired as to why a Sikh should keep rehat.

To be a Gursikh, the path is narrower than a hair and sharper than a razor's edge. This statement refers to the discipline required. Sikhi however is open and accessible to all.

 

[Veeru]

So, so far what we have learnt about these people who are claiming to be Sikhs because they are Amritdharis and claiming that nobody else is Sikh don't even know whether or not a Sikh is supposed the one who seeks God oe is it supposed to be the one who have achieved God and yet they claim to be Sikh.

All so-called Rehat Maryadas today were manmade. That's why there are logically incorrect, e.g. they say it's OK to kill but to cut your hair. They spiritually make no sense as they use terms like "A Sikh must". Everything that encourages forcing people has nothing at all to do with spirituality. In addition, they split humanity by saying that a Sikh must marry another Sikh. Also, if a Sikh is more compatible with a so-called non-Sikh, s/he has no right to have a good life with a non-Sikh.

So it makes no sense to follow so-called Rehat Maryada unless someone can provide us with the original Rehat Maryada.

If anything, Guru Granth Sahib would be considered the best Rehat Maryada.

 

[J.A.T.T]

thanks for accepting that Ranjit Singh was not a sikh..

what a sad blow to Khalistanis who trumpet the Maharaja's rule as kingdom of sikhs...and that they are fighting to get it back....you can trwal many sites on net which have the khalistani literature citing Sikh soverignity using the Ranjit singh rule logic....

coming back to the discussion,

i donot think that anyone needs a "certificate" from anyone to call himself a sikh. Whoever wants, can very well call himself one

i think atleast in india, during census they donot ask a person to show how much he has been observing rehat.... don't know to what limit they will go into in the dreamland of Khalistan

and coming back to solid proofs,

bijla ji,

Can you prove a SOLID proof stating that a Mona is not a Guru wala..... and how exactly a person gets to know that He/she has become Guruwala...is it an external thing?

or is it something deep within ?



ofcourse you will cite Rehats..but that would be a mere repetition... you may like to share some experiences you had after you became a "Guruwala" in your definition....



opinion are welcome

I think these people need to re-write their history books. By using their logic, a lot of people aren't Sikhs including Ranjit Singh and Udham Singh.

 

[kds1980]

All so-called Rehat Maryadas today were manmade. That's why there are logically incorrect, e.g. they say it's OK to kill but to cut your hair

pcjs are you saying that rehat maryada is wrong because you beleive that
killing animals is wrong and cutting hair is o.k.?if it is opposite then would you have been supporting rehat maryada?

 

[J.A.T.T]

Mr. "Jatt" first you ask "I am confused about these people" and then you come up with your own definitions. In any case, read the Maryada carefully. How can one claim to follow Guru Sahib and not take Amrit which is the teaching of Guru Sahib? Naam Japna is one of the basic principles of Sikhi and naam cannot be obtained without a Guru. Hence one must take Amrit.

Actually, if you read the rehat and especially gurdwara act closely, then you can see that you can find terms such as "amritdhari", “keshdhari” and “sehajdhari”.

They’re all recognized as Sikhs.

 

[Veeru]

pcjs are you saying that rehat maryada is wrong because you beleive that
killing animals is wrong and cutting hair is o.k.?if it is opposite then would you have been supporting rehat maryada?

Does it logically make sense to say it's OK to kill and not cutting here? The key word is "logically"...

I wouldn't support anything that isn't logically correct....

 

[Bijla Singh]

No one needs a certificate from me or anyone else but everyone needs a certificate from Guru Sahib. Guru sahib has established a path (Amrit Sanchaar) for one to become a Sikh. First you want proofs and then you say it will be a "repetition". What kind of proofs do you want as nothing is acceptable to you? Eye witness account of Bhai Jeevan Singh is one of the sources that give all the details about first Amrit Sanchaar. Work of Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji is explains rehat. Rehatnamas of Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji, Bhai Daya Singh Ji and also Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji explain rehat. If one wants to become a guruwala then he/she must follow the teachings of Guru Sahib i.e. follow rehat. Guru Sahib has blessed his roop to Sikhs and Sikhs are those who follow the rehat given by Guru Sahib. Monay and patit are nowhere near the roop of Guru Sahib. Making excuses is no way to justify your kurehats. All of you have provided not a single source from 18th century, no hand written account, no reference from work of Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji and Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji to justify your claims. Gurbani is clear on the stance that without Naam no one can become guru wala or get liberation. One gets naam when they take Amrit. Is there any other way? I would like to see the reference from Gurbani if you have any. Who else is a Satguru equal to Guru Sahib? There is only one Satguru and only the Satguru has the authority to give Naam. Guru Sahib gave His authority to Panj Pyare. There are no exceptions for anyone in Sikhi be it Udham Singh or Maharaja Ranjit Singh (if he wasn’t Amritdhari) or anyone else.

I would also like to see the reference that a Sikh can marry a non-Sikh. When Sikhs were offered multiple wives, sex slaves and 72 virgins in heaven by Mughal rulers they refused because they were strict in the rehat and they followed the teachings of Guru Sahib. They didn’t make excuses like you are. All they had to do was cut their hair and enjoy the riches but they knew that satisfaction that comes from Naam Abhiyaas cannot be fulfilled by worldly pleasures. If monay are Sikhs then give me one account from 18th century where a mona was martyred because he was considered a Sikh. I rather keep my experiences to myself. Just look at Shaheedis of Bhai Mati Das Ji, Bhai Dayala Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Shabag Singh Ji, Bhai Mani Singh Ji and Baba Banda Singh Ji to understand what it means to become a Sikh. If you want to know about experiences then I suggest you to go to Tapoban forum and read the “What made you interested in Gurmat” and “Rehat Experiences” topics. Also pick up some books like Jail Chitthiyan, Rangley Sajjan, Se Kineheya and Autobiography of Bhai Rama Singh Ji. This will get you started. No reference or proof can satisfy you, only Gurmat Naam and your desire to follow Guru Sahib and become His Sant-Sipahi will. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[J.A.T.T]

No one needs a certificate from me or anyone else but everyone needs a certificate from Guru Sahib. Guru sahib has established a path (Amrit Sanchaar) for one to become a Sikh. First you want proofs and then you say it will be a "repetition". What kind of proofs do you want as nothing is acceptable to you? Eye witness account of Bhai Jeevan Singh is one of the sources that give all the details about first Amrit Sanchaar. Work of Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji is explains rehat. Rehatnamas of Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji, Bhai Daya Singh Ji and also Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji explain rehat. If one wants to become a guruwala then he/she must follow the teachings of Guru Sahib i.e. follow rehat. Guru Sahib has blessed his roop to Sikhs and Sikhs are those who follow the rehat given by Guru Sahib. Monay and patit are nowhere near the roop of Guru Sahib. Making excuses is no way to justify your kurehats. All of you have provided not a single source from 18th century, no hand written account, no reference from work of Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji and Vaars of Bhai Gurdas Ji to justify your claims. Gurbani is clear on the stance that without Naam no one can become guru wala or get liberation. One gets naam when they take Amrit. Is there any other way? I would like to see the reference from Gurbani if you have any. Who else is a Satguru equal to Guru Sahib? There is only one Satguru and only the Satguru has the authority to give Naam. Guru Sahib gave His authority to Panj Pyare. There are no exceptions for anyone in Sikhi be it Udham Singh or Maharaja Ranjit Singh (if he wasn’t Amritdhari) or anyone else.

I would also like to see the reference that a Sikh can marry a non-Sikh. When Sikhs were offered multiple wives, sex slaves and 72 virgins in heaven by Mughal rulers they refused because they were strict in the rehat and they followed the teachings of Guru Sahib. They didn’t make excuses like you are. All they had to do was cut their hair and enjoy the riches but they knew that satisfaction that comes from Naam Abhiyaas cannot be fulfilled by worldly pleasures. If monay are Sikhs then give me one account from 18th century where a mona was martyred because he was considered a Sikh. I rather keep my experiences to myself. Just look at Shaheedis of Bhai Mati Das Ji, Bhai Dayala Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Shabag Singh Ji, Bhai Mani Singh Ji and Baba Banda Singh Ji to understand what it means to become a Sikh. If you want to know about experiences then I suggest you to go to Tapoban forum and read the “What made you interested in Gurmat” and “Rehat Experiences” topics. Also pick up some books like Jail Chitthiyan, Rangley Sajjan, Se Kineheya and Autobiography of Bhai Rama Singh Ji. This will get you started. No reference or proof can satisfy you, only Gurmat Naam and your desire to follow Guru Sahib and become His Sant-Sipahi will. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Do you know who Diwan Kaura Mall (Mitta Mall) is?

 

[kds1980]

Does it logically make sense to say it's OK to kill and not cutting here? The key word is "logically"...

I wouldn't support anything that isn't logically correct....

DEAR PCJS

.god has not created
fertile land everywhere there are coastal areas,icy regions where people have to eat meat.so how could a maryada that say that eating meat is wrong
is logical.such maryada is only for people that are living in fertile areas.

i want to ask you a question.small farmer all over the world use ox to plough their field.the plight of these animals is really miserable.for all their life they are beaten with sticks.now tell me logically what is wrong ,killing animal with single blow or giving them life long suffering.

in the end i just want to say that don't reject maryada solely because it does
not suit your logic.basically sikhism is following gurmat not what suits your logic because if all people start applying their logic then their will be no gurmat left.

 

[J.A.T.T]

Oh yeah, if people like Udham Singh and Maharaja Ranjit Singh aren't Sikhs, then for the love of god, please re-write your history books and not take credit of other communities accomplishments.

 

[Bijla Singh]

in the end i just want to say that don't reject maryada solely because it does
not suit your logic.basically sikhism is following gurmat not what suits your logic because if all people start applying their logic then their will be no gurmat left.

Very nice say. I agree.

 

[Veeru]

So KDS,

Please tell us if logically it makes sense to say that cutting hair worse than killing without going into irrelavant stuff...

 

[Veeru]

Bijla Singh,

Answer the following questions:

1. Is a Sikh the one who seeks the Truth (God) or is it the one has achieved the Truth (God)? Until you find an answer to this, you will not know who is Sikhs and who is not, nor you will know whether you are Sikh or not.

2. Are you claiming to be guruwala just because you think you are following Guru's footsteps or are you a guruwala because Guru ever told you that your behaviour was accepted by him?

Let me give you an example of someone of Guruwala. One time, Guru Amar Dass Ji, while bringing water for his guru to bathe fell in front of someone's house. When the husband heard the noise outside, he asked his wife who it could be. The wife said who else could it be, it must Amaru Nathaana. Guru Amar Dass Ji heard this and said, jhalliye main nathaana nehi, mai taa'n guru waala. Right away the lady in the house became mentally ill simply because Guru Amar Dass Ji referred to her as Jhalli. Are you this kind of guruwala or simply you think you are a guruwala?