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Kindness, Good, Bad, Therapy

Harry Haller

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It may help you to continue seeing a therapist, don't you think?

As far as the comic goes, most people I'm sure would have an innate sense of what 'good' and 'kind' mean.

For me, to be good is to do things that come from, and help develop, excellence of character. Keeping virtues like moderation, courage and justice, and trying to navigate life with wisdom. Behaving according to my duty as a rational, social human being.

For me, to be kind is to treat others with consideration. Kindness is not complicated. Kindness is in basic actions for the welfare of others (human and non-human alike). Kindness is taking some time to help someone on the forum feel a little bit less alone. Kindness is checking on your elderly neighbour during a heatwave. Kindness is giving the really tired man on the train your seat before he falls asleep on his feet.



Personally, I have my own opinions on therapy, which are not positive

However, reading the above, and subsequent shabad, leaves me in no doubt that for the while anyway, I should probably just stick to comic relief in my contributions here, as clearly my internal compasses are so far away from reality, that any argument will only make me look hugely stupid,

I cannot relate to any of the above in any fashion whatsoever, my own belief is that no one does anything good, or kind unless it suits their own personal agenda whatever that may be, or they wish to be seen as good and kind.

I'll just stick to jokes.....
 
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Ishna

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“Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.” – Marcus Aurelius​

:p
 

Harry Haller

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uhm well your on my blog now, so I can be as irrelevant and funny as I wish!

Define a good man........

My issue is not with myself, my issue is with what is perceived to be good, kind, just and right, there are many men that believe themselves to be good, yet, I know many bad men that are also good, even though they may not think they are,

goodness, kindness, being right, being wrong, are all subjective and also time relevant, which is why we put on pedestals today, those we hung yesterday, what was wrong yesterday, is right today, what was right yesterday, is wrong today, how much of that is truth, how much of that is the influence of society and the age we live in,
 

Harry Haller

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in my view, no, it does not, it gives definitive facets that contribute to goodness, but at the end of the day, as you know, unlike other religions, it encourages the use of diplomacy, tact, logic, wisdom and knowledge to discern as to just what level these facets should be deployed, when, and for how long, this cannot be taught, or learned, therefore it is how these facets are wielded that makes a good person rather than the facets themselves,

so is a good person someone that simply does good actions, regardless how they turn out in the long run?
or is a good person someone that may do quite bad actions, in the hope that in the long run, the end results are good?
how much is perceived goodness, how much is planned goodness?

Why is it that we look back in history and condemn people that were good because judged by the values of today, they were actually bad?
I would rather be a true person than a good person,..
 

Ishna

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in my view, no, it does not, it gives definitive facets that contribute to goodness, but at the end of the day, as you know, unlike other religions, it encourages the use of diplomacy, tact, logic, wisdom and knowledge to discern as to just what level these facets should be deployed, when, and for how long, this cannot be taught, or learned, therefore it is how these facets are wielded that makes a good person rather than the facets themselves,

so is a good person someone that simply does good actions, regardless how they turn out in the long run?
or is a good person someone that may do quite bad actions, in the hope that in the long run, the end results are good?
how much is perceived goodness, how much is planned goodness?

Why is it that we look back in history and condemn people that were good because judged by the values of today, they were actually bad?
I would rather be a true person than a good person,..
You don't believe it's possible for someone to cultivate those 'definitive facets' you mentioned that we read about in Gurbani, and put them into action on a case-by-case basis, to the best of one's ability? Do you believe a person is either born with those facets inbuilt and with the knowledge to wield them, or they're not?

If they can't be learned, why does Gurbani entreat us to use those facets it sings about? Isn't learning about them and then using them the entire idea of practicing a philosophy or religion?

We can't predict the future, but we can try to do our best with what we have and know and can guess. What's wrong with planned goodness? Also, no one is perfect. No one is going to be perfectly good, it's impossible.

It's certainly possible to be kind without being good, I think. The old 'give a man a fish and he eats for a day' (kindness) vs 'teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of this life' (goodness). I guess a wise person is able to balance compassion with what is in the long-term best interest of an entity.

What do you mean by a 'true person'? And how do you reconcile that desire with the virtues of goodness that Gurbani teaches if you'd rather be true instead of good?
 

Ishna

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I suppose there is a paradox in my thinking, because on the one had it seems apparent that most people have an innate sense of common decency, but on the other hand we need to be taught virtues - which is at least half the reason we have religions and sacred texts LOL.
 

Harry Haller

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You don't believe it's possible for someone to cultivate those 'definitive facets' you mentioned that we read about in Gurbani, and put them into action on a case-by-case basis, to the best of one's ability?
I actually do not think human beings can be anything other than human beings, with all the feelings and emotions that human beings have, trying to be anything else, to me, at this moment, is merely pretence. I have yet to meet anyone that has these definitive facets, whom I did not feel had some sort of agenda.

Do you believe a person is either born with those facets inbuilt and with the knowledge to wield them, or they're not?
I think we are all born with these facets, but we also have the five thieves, I guess for some it is a logical process in educating the thieves, to others it is not akin to a form of madness. The question is even when wielding them, who is it for, the self? the collective? god? or merely because it is the right thing to do, but then, the right thing for whom?

If they can't be learned, why does Gurbani entreat us to use those facets it sings about?
I am unable to answer this, I don't know.

Isn't learning about them and then using them the entire idea of practicing a philosophy or religion?
sure it is, but as I said, it is the facets that are learned, my argument is the wielding is more important than the philosophy, knowing when to feed a beggar is more important than just feeding all beggars willy nilly

We can't predict the future, but we can try to do our best with what we have and know and can guess. What's wrong with planned goodness? Also, no one is perfect. No one is going to be perfectly good, it's impossible.
Describe an act of planned goodness

It's certainly possible to be kind without being good, I think. The old 'give a man a fish and he eats for a day' (kindness) vs 'teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of this life' (goodness). I guess a wise person is able to balance compassion with what is in the long-term best interest of an entity.
you hit the nail on the head, I have yet to meet a person with such wisdom
What do you mean by a 'true person'?
a person who accepts who they are, their shortcomings, and tries to live by the truth, for me, trying to be anything other than that is like stretching a spring to its full length, all it wants to do is retract back to its normal state, and sure enough, once whatever is stretching it is removed, it does. I find the stretched state unnatural.

And how do you reconcile that desire with the virtues of goodness that Gurbani teaches if you'd rather be true instead of good?
well, the truth is mentioned in Mool Mantra, but goodness seems to be not, what is more important, being good, or being true?

I suppose there is a paradox in my thinking, because on the one had it seems apparent that most people have an innate sense of common decency, but on the other hand we need to be taught virtues - which is at least half the reason we have religions and sacred texts LOL.
I would disagree, no one read anything in religion or sacred texts about goodness with any shock or surprise, deep down we know what good is, trying to explain it, or encapsulate it, to me anyway, seems almost impossible.

I would warn you, I am at possibly my most insane, only a fool argues with a madman, and your no fool...

:)
 

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