Kala Afghana: Discussion Redux

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Veer Inder Singh ji ,[/FONT]
Guru Gobind Singh ji went to heavenly abode in 1708. Then we can see the letter of Bhai Mani singh ji as an authentication in 1713-14. Later on His nephew wrote a rahtnama, than Bhai Binoda Singh ji who was one of the five apostles sent with Banda Bahadar. When did he left to Sach khand is not known to me. Over all Mata Sundari ji at Delhi. You can tell the year of her leaving this materialistic world to Sachkhand.[/FONT]
Then you quote the visit of a foreigner in 1781 at Patna Sahab who narrates the parkash of Two Granths there. Less the period from 1781 till Mata ji was alive. How many years would have left. There would be many in 1781 who would have been lucky to have seen Mata ji or visited in their congregation. That is a very short period.[/FONT]
Therefore the narration of that foreigner in Patna Sahab approves beyond doubt.[/FONT]
If I challenge the Indian Govt. by my assertions that Subhash Bose was alive after 1945 and died in 1977 and can prove it. Officially it has been 65 years since he was declared dead. So how could any body not prove the presence of two Granths in Gurdwaras as I case 1781 and 1805.[/FONT]
There is no end to answer the uttrence of parrots. You will get tired but they won’t. They are in the search of a clue where they may get a chance to humiliate the favorers of dasam Granth.[/FONT]
You might be aware that if a terrorist chases someone to assassinates him, the victim may try a hundred times but ultimately he gets killed by the chasing assassinator, similarly they are chasing, nothing else.[/FONT]
Guru fateh !![/FONT][/FONT]

 

[spnadmin]

Ajmer ji

In one thread the "parrots" are the enemy because they want to interpret SGGS. On another thread the "parrots" are the innocent victims of "terrorists" i.e., anti Guru, anti Gurmat, forces. What is the forum member with an uncomplicated mind supposed to think when he/she reads these conversations? It sounds just like someone is talking out of both sides of the mouth.

To those who are willing to admit they are confused by the two threads: Chauttah Pad and this thread on Kala Afghana. No you are not losing your ability to make sense. You are not going crazy. The whole thing is starting to read like that old TV show "The Outer Limits." There is a lot of inner contradiction and rambling going on that may lead to serious moderation. Sat Nam.

 

[Inder singh]

Ajmer ji

In one thread the "parrots" are the enemy because they want to interpret SGGS. On another thread the "parrots" are the innocent victims of "terrorists" i.e., anti Guru, anti Gurmat, forces. What is the forum member with an uncomplicated mind supposed to think when he/she reads these conversations? It sounds just like someone is talking out of both sides of the mouth.

To those who are willing to admit they are confused by the two threads: Chauttah Pad and this thread on Kala Afghana. No you are not losing your ability to make sense. You are not going crazy. The whole thing is starting to read like that old TV show "The Outer Limits." There is a lot of inner contradiction and rambling going on that may lead to serious moderation. Sat Nam.

These two thraeds are different and independent. What are you trying to point out by writing above. At best your assertion is irrelevant to the subject at hand.

Ajmer singh ji

You have pointed out the whole conclusion. The period is very short. The traditions do not sprout all of a sudden. Dal khalsa was there on the scene much eralier than 1781. So procedure of gurmatta was same as far as place was concerned( Akal takhat Amritsar) and modlities were same.

Guru sahib was struck with third arrow of Hari Chand in his waist belt in battle of Bhangani. Guru sahib ahs described that in bachitra natak and wrote

Jabe baan lagiyo
Tabe ros jagiyo

That belt is still there in the treasure of Royal house of patiala. There is a composition of Dasam granth written on that.

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

I think I am trying to say that forum readers should not be concerned if there is too much squawking or they are reminded of parrots. The effects are only temporary.

 

[Inder singh]

o

those who are willing to admit they are confused by the two threads: Chauttah Pad and this thread on Kala Afghana. No you are not losing your ability to make sense. You are not going crazy. The whole thing is starting to read like that old TV show "The Outer Limits." There is a lot of inner contradiction and rambling going on that may lead to serious moderation. Sat Nam.

Why do not you spell out clearly what is going on in your mind. A sikh always calls a spade a spade.

 

[Inder singh]

Inder ji

I think I am trying to say that forum readers should not be concerned if there is too much squawking or they are reminded of parrots. The effects are only temporary.

But there is no link between two threads. I think we are trying to raise a phantom out of nothing.

 

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

I think I am trying to say that forum readers should not be concerned if there is too much squawking or they are reminded of parrots. The effects are only temporary.

Inder ji

Right there up above is what I am saying. The link is the "parrot strategy."

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Reminds me of a line from the Old mariner...Water water everywhere..not a drop to drink !!
I hope the thirsty ones are not disillusioned...the WATER...the AMRIT is indeed THERE..just waiting to be discovered through GURBANI-VICHAAR. In the jungles of the Amazon...parotts on every branch..leaves rustle in the wind....parrot here and parrot there..the "searcher" of Divine Truth trekks on relentlessly ignoring the caophony of the sanyasi jungle dwellers....turning over GURBANI over and over in their Inner Minds..DYAAN...DHYAAN...DHYAAN..not mindful of any thing else...they achieve Peace. Parots can fly from branch to branch..tree to tree..seeking to distract...with their parotting cacophony...ignore and DHYAAN DHYAAN as Gurbani says.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

what are you doing in Amazon?:crazy:

 

[spnadmin]

Amarsanghera ji

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
Interesting - In the Amazon parrots fly from tree to tree seeking another's response. In the desert camels wander from oasis to oasis in search of a drink. The parrots make noise. The camels don't make as much noise though they do make noise.:whisling: But the noise can be put to one side nonetheless. And thirst can be quenched. Everything turns out good in the end. :ice: The Divine vibration, amrithh of His Name.

 

[Inder singh]

Amarsanghera ji

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
Interesting - In the Amazon parrots fly from tree to tree seeking another's response. In the desert camels wander from oasis to oasis in search of a drink. The parrots make noise. The camels don't make as much noise though they do make noise.:whisling: But the noise can be put to one side nonetheless. And thirst can be quenched. Everything turns out good in the end. :ice: The Divine vibration, amrithh of His Name.

Aad ji

Your description is very graphic. have you been to these places?

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

AAD JI...BULLS EYE !! where did you learn archery from ??

At the Battle of Anandpur, one evening...Guru Gobind Singh Ji once shot an arrow from an "impossible" distance straight into the Pava (the part of manja leg that protrudes above - punjabi bed made of strings - its four legs are called Pavahs..and the head of each pava is above the level of the bed platform) ON this bed in the Centre of the Mughal Camp surrounding Anandpur sahib...were sitting three Mughal Generals and they were discussing how to get Guru Gobind Singh Ji !! when His Golden tipped Arrow came "shooooooking".. out of thin air and embedded into the Pavah.. Tied to it was aparchment that said..I KNOW !!...IF I wanted to KILL YOU I could do it easily...Thats BULLS EYE Dasam Pita Ji style..and we are His Sikhs !! WE shoot Bulls Eye BUT not to "kill" !!
WE shoot straight to the Centre...to TEACH a lesson.:happy:

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

I have good teachers. All having One Good Teacher.

 

[Inder singh]

Gyani ji

I have good teachers. All having One Good Teacher.

A lot of backpatting is going on. Has it any connection to the subject?

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Aad ji,
[/FONT]
I am sorry if any confusion is created because of me. I wrote in reference to some members who, though being provided authenticated proves but Inder singh ji asked again the authentication on some pretext. When authenticity of Hemkunt can be questioned and asked to quote Gurbaani references, Elaborate Guru Gobind Singh’s incarnation, I mean as Dusht-Daman, then authenticity of Nanded, hazoor Sahab ji is also to be questioned. Guru Gobind Singh ji proved at Nanded that this land was their hermitage in Satyug. Can someone quote any Gurubaani reference to prove that? What if any learned person pulls on the thread, how will you refer then? This parrot utterance is used as proverb.[/FONT]
Guru Fateh !![/FONT]
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.[/FONT]

 

[Inder singh]

Dr Joginder singh of California ,USA has done a lot of research on DG manuscripts. This was his reply to Jasbir singh mann on learning-zone in reply to his British conspiracy theory on October 26,2006.

on 18th Century DG Mss.

1. Punjab University, Chandigarh has a MS. No. 522 (folios 766), dated 1789 CE.
2. Randhir Singh (Shabad Moorat) and Piara Singh (DG Darshan) describe a Ms. copy of Misal Patna prepared in 1765 CE at Jammu.
3. Randhir Singh also refers to a 18th century DG in a Gurdwara at Kolkata in Shabad Moorat (I am sorry I am away from my base and cannot give the exact reference).

In my opinion the argument that there was no DG in Punjab in the 18th century is not valid regarding the existence of DG. The British conspiracy theory is far fetched.

Joginder Singh
Richmond, CA (Camp Patiala)

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyaniji, [/FONT]
As you refer erred the arrow was shot at pavah at (The leg of Manja) in the battle of Anandpu Sahab. No Gyani ji , you are forgetting This was shot from Moti Bag Delhi to The Red fort at the pavah of Mogul emperor Bahadar shah. He by looking at the golden tipped arrow recognized and said, “Oh this is a miracle of Guru Gobind Singh.” Immediately soon after this , another arrow embedded again into the pavah, a letter was attached with it, written by Guru ji,”This is not a miracle but art of archery, and that if Guru ji wanted he could kill him but not as their was no hukam of Akal Purakh. [/FONT]
Even now if a bullet is shot from any sophisticated weapon, it can not cover the said distance. That was Guru ji’s arrow. Gurudwara Moti Bag is there to remind us this historical incident of fame.[/FONT]
Guru Fateh !![/FONT]
Ajmer Singh Randhawa.[/FONT]

 

[Archived_Member_19]

aad ji

sometimes the parrots tatter makes more sense than an ascetics samadhi

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥
सिरीरागु महला ३ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 3.
Siree Raag, Third Mehl:

ਗੋਵਿਦੁ ਗੁਣੀ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾਇ ॥
गोविदु गुणी निधानु है अंतु न पाइआ जाइ ॥
Goviḏ guṇī niḏẖān hai anṯ na pā▫i▫ā jā▫e.
The Lord of the Universe is the Treasure of Excellence; His limits cannot be found.

ਕਥਨੀ ਬਦਨੀ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
कथनी बदनी न पाईऐ हउमै विचहु जाइ ॥
Kathnī baḏnī na pā▫ī▫ai ha▫umai vicẖahu jā▫e.
He is not obtained by mouthing mere words, but by rooting out ego from within.

ਸਤਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸਦ ਭੈ ਰਚੈ ਆਪਿ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥੧॥
सतगुरि मिलिऐ सद भै रचै आपि वसै मनि आइ ॥१॥
Saṯgur mili▫ai saḏ bẖai racẖai āp vasai man ā▫e. ||1||
Meeting the True Guru, one is permeated forever with the Fear of God, who Himself comes to dwell within the mind. ||1||

ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਕੋਇ ॥
भाई रे गुरमुखि बूझै कोइ ॥
Bẖā▫ī re gurmukẖ būjẖai ko▫e.
O Siblings of Destiny, one who becomes Gurmukh and understands this is very rare.

ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵਣੇ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਖੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
बिनु बूझे करम कमावणे जनमु पदारथु खोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Bin būjẖe karam kamāvṇe janam paḏārath kẖo▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.
To act without understanding is to lose the treasure of this human life. ||1||Pause||

ਜਿਨੀ ਚਾਖਿਆ ਤਿਨੀ ਸਾਦੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਬਿਨੁ ਚਾਖੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇ ॥
जिनी चाखिआ तिनी सादु पाइआ बिनु चाखे भरमि भुलाइ ॥
Jinī cẖākẖi▫ā ṯinī sāḏ pā▫i▫ā bin cẖākẖe bẖaram bẖulā▫e.
Those who have tasted it, enjoy its flavor; without tasting it, they wander in doubt, lost and deceived.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਕਹਣਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
अम्रितु साचा नामु है कहणा कछू न जाइ ॥
Amriṯ sācẖā nām hai kahṇā kacẖẖū na jā▫e.
The True Name is the Ambrosial Nectar; no one can describe it.

ਪੀਵਤ ਹੂ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਭਇਆ ਪੂਰੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥
पीवत हू परवाणु भइआ पूरै सबदि समाइ ॥२॥
Pīvaṯ hū parvāṇ bẖa▫i▫ā pūrai sabaḏ samā▫e. ||2||
Drinking it in, one becomes honorable, absorbed in the Perfect Word of the Shabad. ||2||

ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ ਤ ਪਾਈਐ ਹੋਰੁ ਕਰਣਾ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
आपे देइ त पाईऐ होरु करणा किछू न जाइ ॥
Āpe ḏe▫e ṯa pā▫ī▫ai hor karṇā kicẖẖū na jā▫e.
He Himself gives, and then we receive. Nothing else can be done.

ਦੇਵਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੈ ਹਥਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
देवण वाले कै हथि दाति है गुरू दुआरै पाइ ॥
Ḏevaṇ vāle kai hath ḏāṯ hai gurū ḏu▫ārai pā▫e.
The Gift is in the Hands of the Great Giver. At the Guru's Door, in the Gurdwara, it is received.

ਜੇਹਾ ਕੀਤੋਨੁ ਤੇਹਾ ਹੋਆ ਜੇਹੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇ ॥੩॥
जेहा कीतोनु तेहा होआ जेहे करम कमाइ ॥३॥
Jehā kīṯon ṯehā ho▫ā jehe karam kamā▫e. ||3||
Whatever He does, comes to pass. All act according to His Will. ||3||

ਜਤੁ ਸਤੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥
जतु सतु संजमु नामु है विणु नावै निरमलु न होइ ॥
Jaṯ saṯ sanjam nām hai viṇ nāvai nirmal na ho▫e.
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is abstinence, truthfulness, and self-restraint. Without the Name, no one becomes pure.

ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
पूरै भागि नामु मनि वसै सबदि मिलावा होइ ॥
Pūrai bẖāg nām man vasai sabaḏ milāvā ho▫e.
Through perfect good fortune, the Naam comes to abide within the mind. Through the Shabad, we merge into Him.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸਹਜੇ ਹੀ ਰੰਗਿ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਣ ਪਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੪॥੧੭॥੫੦॥
नानक सहजे ही रंगि वरतदा हरि गुण पावै सोइ ॥४॥१७॥५०॥
Nānak sėhje hī rang varaṯḏā har guṇ pāvai so▫e. ||4||17||50||
O Nanak, one who lives in intuitive peace and poise, imbued with the Lord's Love, obtains the Glorious Praises of the Lord. ||4||17||50||

 

[Archived_Member_19]

ਮਃ ੧ ॥
मः १ ॥
Mėhlā 1.
First Mehl:

ਮਤਿ ਪੰਖੇਰੂ ਕਿਰਤੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਕਬ ਉਤਮ ਕਬ ਨੀਚ ॥
मति पंखेरू किरतु साथि कब उतम कब नीच ॥
Maṯ pankẖerū kiraṯ sāth kab uṯam kab nīcẖ.
The intellect is a bird; on account of its actions, it is sometimes high, and sometimes low.

ਕਬ ਚੰਦਨਿ ਕਬ ਅਕਿ ਡਾਲਿ ਕਬ ਉਚੀ ਪਰੀਤਿ ॥
कब चंदनि कब अकि डालि कब उची परीति ॥
Kab cẖanḏan kab ak dāl kab ucẖī parīṯ.
Sometimes it is perched on the sandalwood tree, and sometimes it is on the branch of the poisonous swallow-wort. Sometimes, it soars through the heavens.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਚਲਾਈਐ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਲਗੀ ਰੀਤਿ ॥੨॥
नानक हुकमि चलाईऐ साहिब लगी रीति ॥२॥
Nānak hukam cẖalā▫ī▫ai sāhib lagī rīṯ. ||2||
O Nanak, our Lord and Master leads us on, according to the Hukam of His Command; such is His Way. ||2||

 

[spnadmin]

Amar ji

These are beautiful shabads. They say it all! Thanks for posting them.