Judaism Jews And Sikhs: How Similar Can We Get?

[kds1980]

naam japna is a different ball game, no religion has any authority over it and neither do sikhism. As far as I know I don't know how to japo naam as yet although I can repeat paaths from my toungue many a times before I drop down fast asleep.

If a sikh can japo naam reciting guru's words or without it.
A hindu can japo naam reciting vedas or without it.
A muslim can japo naam reciting koran or without it.
A christian can japo naam reciting bible or without it.

Well I think only one path is valid and that is humanity. True sikhism just illuminates that path and so do other religions.

Dear tgill

do wahabi islam that is practiced in saudi arabia illuminates humanity where women even cannot drive cars.

It is one of the biggest myth that all religions are same.a religion can make or break society.

 

[Archived_Member1]

Sat nam.

In addition to believing in their exclusive validity, I believe that in the Jewish faith your shot at salvation depends to a great extent on whether you're born Jewish; ie, whether your mother is Jewish. I'm not so familiar with their conversion practises, but if it comes straight from Leviticus (the legal part of the Jewish Bible) it's very tough.

please read my previous post... jews believe that all people are capable of salvation. they believe that only jews are bound to jewish religious law. the rest of us are free to worship as we please.

 

[Astroboy]

Link to Leviticus :-
Leviticus

 

[drkhalsa]

But in sikhism gurbani is the guru.We cannot say that all paths are valid.according to philosophy of sikhism naam japna is must and all paths do not recommend naam japna.

Naam japo is wider and ambigous trem as T gill Mentioned. Nothin could be said about it in one line So thi point does not count to be specific to sikh
if Naam Japo is concentrating on godly attributes than yes it is same in all religions with different names

 

[clarkejoey]

Ah! I stand corrected, kelly_kaur ji; your response answered exactly what i was wondering about. We must have posted at the same time. :2:

Do you know about the conversion process though? For instance, isn't circumcision obligatory? Ouch!

 

[Archived_Member1]

Ah! I stand corrected, kelly_kaur ji; your response answered exactly what i was wondering about. We must have posted at the same time. :2:

Do you know about the conversion process though? For instance, isn't circumcision obligatory? Ouch!

i don't know too much about the conversion process except that it is discouraged. my friend converted to orthodox judaism from catholicism, and he was turned away three times. there are all sorts of conditions put on his conversion, and the process takes a year or more!

not sure about the circumcision part. ouch is right!

 

[kds1980]

Naam japo is wider and ambigous trem as T gill Mentioned. Nothin could be said about it in one line So thi point does not count to be specific to sikh
if Naam Japo is concentrating on godly attributes than yes it is same in all religions with different names

I agree with you NAAm japna is not only specific to sikhism.but there are philosophies which do not recommend naam japna.for example there are nastik (atheist) philosophies
in hinduism and in strict sense budhism and jainism is also nastik.according to sikhism we cannot say that these paths are valid.

 

[drkhalsa]

I agree with you NAAm japna is not only specific to sikhism.but there are philosophies which do not recommend naam japna.for example there are nastik (atheist) philosophies
in hinduism and in strict sense budhism and jainism is also nastik.according to sikhism we cannot say that these paths are valid.

dear friend

as an unrealised individual my knowledge about many things is incomplete
Many times it has been said and mnay learned people like Vijaydeep Singh ( spn memeber) has said that Bhudhism and jainism are Nastik and many things like that but as far as my experience hass been til date my first hand understand ing sas that these are not nastik if if they themselve claim so . as they do the same stuff everybody spirtual junky do to please the higher power and nastik is labell for them in particulatr context

Sure I will spend some time learning more about this topic if I get a chance

Thanks
Jatinder Singh

 

[kds1980]

dear friend

as an unrealised individual my knowledge about many things is incomplete
Many times it has been said and mnay learned people like Vijaydeep Singh ( spn memeber) has said that Bhudhism and jainism are Nastik and many things like that but as far as my experience hass been til date my first hand understand ing sas that these are not nastik if if they themselve claim so . as they do the same stuff everybody spirtual junky do to please the higher power and nastik is labell for them in particulatr context

Sure I will spend some time learning more about this topic if I get a chance

Thanks
Jatinder Singh

Dearjatinder singh ji

I am a member of faithfreedm.org which is basically an anti islamic and an atheist site.but now it is a very big forum and debates between religions occur from time to time.I raised this question on that forum about budhism.Just like we say that people today are not following sikhism as it was preached by guru's they too said that buddhists are not following what buddha preached.and in strict term buddhism is an atheist philosophy.
Just we have today different sikhs different like AKJ, taksal etc they too have different buddhists.

 

[TGill]

KDS ji

Buddhism is not away from naam japna as well...Baba Nanak says "Gaave Sidh Budh naath kete"... Even Gautam Buddha (or the budhs after him) sang the songs of "Universal law" which he called "dhamma" instead of giving a humanlke status to it which we term as God. The essence of all religions illuminates the same path. It is only human who fanaticise and turn that light into darkness.

 

[dalsingh]

I've never established the reasons behind the strong emphasis on a Jewish person being born of a Jewish mother. It is fascinating because most other cultures strongly favour the male (explicitly or implicitly.)

I have a relative who is half Jewish (Jewish mum), he told me but never went into detail.

Anyone shed some light?

Going back to the original topic. I personally have always been struck with the similarities between the Jewish and Sikh community. Sometimes I see some orthodox guys in the supermarket with their kids. They wear their uniform like Sikhs.

One main difference I think is temperament. Most of the Jewish people I have met are very peaceful and generally professional people. I think the equivalent of the hot head Punjabi brawler type doesn't exist in that community.

 

[kds1980]

KDS ji

Buddhism is not away from naam japna as well...Baba Nanak says "Gaave Sidh Budh naath kete"... Even Gautam Buddha (or the budhs after him) sang the songs of "Universal law" which he called "dhamma" instead of giving a humanlke status to it which we term as God. The essence of all religions illuminates the same path. It is only human who fanaticise and turn that light into darkness.

T gill ji

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism
here is the concept of god in buddhism from wikipedia

Buddhism is usually regarded as a religion (or a spiritual philosophy) without an Absolute Creator God who created the universe ex nihilo and to whom worship and adoration are due. Even though an Absolute Creator God is absent in most forms of Buddhism, veneration and worship of Gautama Buddha (and other Buddhas) do play a major role in both Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism. In Mahayana Buddhism there is the notion of the Buddhas as generators of vast "Buddha lands" or Buddha Paradises, in which beings will unfailingly attain Nirvana.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks quite clear that buddhism is godless philosophy.but anyway my point is not whether buddhism is godless or not my point is some paths were rejected by guru's

here is the shabad from guru granth sahib about jains

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1285&english=t&id=55179#l55179

पउड़ी ॥
Paoṛī.
Pauree:


ਇਕਿ ਜੈਨੀ ਉਝੜ ਪਾਇ ਧੁਰਹੁ ਖੁਆਇਆ ॥
इकि जैनी उझड़ पाइ धुरहु खुआइआ ॥
Ik jainī ujẖaṛ pāė ḏẖarahu kẖuāiā.
Some are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined.


ਤਿਨ ਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਇਆ ॥
तिन मुखि नाही नामु न तीरथि न्हाइआ ॥
Ŧin mukẖ nāhī nām na ṯirath nĥāiā.
The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is not on their lips; they do not bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.


ਹਥੀ ਸਿਰ ਖੋਹਾਇ ਨ ਭਦੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
हथी सिर खोहाइ न भदु कराइआ ॥
Hathī sir kẖohāė na bẖaḏ karāiā.
They pull out their hair with their hands, instead of shaving.


ਕੁਚਿਲ ਰਹਹਿ ਦਿਨ ਰਾਤਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਭਾਇਆ ॥
कुचिल रहहि दिन राति सबदु न भाइआ ॥
Kucẖil raheh ḏin rāṯ sabaḏ na bẖāiā.
They remain unclean day and night; they do not love the Word of the Shabad.


ਤਿਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਪਤਿ ਨ ਕਰਮੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥
तिन जाति न पति न करमु जनमु गवाइआ ॥
Ŧin jāṯ na paṯ na karam janam gavāiā.
They have no status, no honor, and no good karma. They waste away their lives in vain.


ਮਨਿ ਜੂਠੈ ਵੇਜਾਤਿ ਜੂਠਾ ਖਾਇਆ ॥
मनि जूठै वेजाति जूठा खाइआ ॥
Man jūṯẖai vėjāṯ jūṯẖā kẖāiā.
Their minds are false and impure; that which they eat is impure and defiled.


ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਆਚਾਰੁ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
बिनु सबदै आचारु न किन ही पाइआ ॥
Bin sabḏai ācẖār na kin hī pāiā.
Without the Shabad, no one achieves a lifestyle of good conduct.


ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਓਅੰਕਾਰਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੧੬॥
गुरमुखि ओअंकारि सचि समाइआ ॥१६॥
Gurmukẖ oankār sacẖ samāiā. ||16||
The Gurmukh is absorbed in the True Lord God, the Universal Creator. ||16||


So the ways of some jainis are criticised by guru's

 

[kds1980]

I've never established the reasons behind the strong emphasis on a Jewish person being born of a Jewish mother. It is fascinating because most other cultures strongly favour the male (explicitly or implicitly.)

I have a relative who is half Jewish (Jewish mum), he told me but never went into detail.

Anyone shed some light?

Going back to the original topic. I personally have always been struck with the similarities between the Jewish and Sikh community. Sometimes I see some orthodox guys in the supermarket with their kids. They wear their uniform like Sikhs.

One main difference I think is temperament. Most of the Jewish people I have met are very peaceful and generally professional people. I think the equivalent of the hot head Punjabi brawler type doesn't exist in that community.

One thing i don't understand about jews is why are they hated so muslims,hardcore christians and even white racists.

muslims have issues with them on israel and may be the past conflict.but why do white racists hate them is beyond my understanding.on sites like stormfront i was quite surprised to read that they too blame every thing on jews.

 

[drkhalsa]

As I know The *** phobia pretains from their ability to accumulate money and having mean bussiness practices that were prevalent in Europe( which offcourse *** deny!)

This lead to general ahtred for the jews in Pre world war era and also to their massacre by nazis

Still jews are regrsded very mean business minded , suspicous, mysterious group by many in modern USA

 

[dalsingh]

One thing i don't understand about jews is why are they hated so muslims,hardcore christians and even white racists.

muslims have issues with them on israel and may be the past conflict.but why do white racists hate them is beyond my understanding.on sites like stormfront i was quite surprised to read that they too blame every thing on jews.

Interesting topic. Was talking about this to my nephews the other day. Regarding Islam: Mohammad seemed to have kicked off with them straight away. Jews are mentioned in the Quran quite a bit. The Israel thing probably just confirms the childhood indoctrination of Jews are bad and fought against Muslims under Mohammad I guess (very superficial analysis I know..). I remember many pakistani youths I grew up with having quite a strong hatred towards Jews.

Fundo Christians probably see them as behind the death of their saviour Christ I guess.

I think that the Jews have been quite influential in the finance sector with regards to institutional set ups. You often hear the statement "Jews run the world" from nutcases. For all this pendu Punjabi knows there could be some truth in that.

Their history is fascinated and multi faceted. Shakesphere wrote about anti Semetism in the Merchant of Venice based on a Jewish Merchant. The loathsome character of Fagin in Oliver Twist (Dickens) is Jewish. There used to be a large community of Jews in East London. They were involved with the mob in America's early days. They have a massive presence in the Hollywood movie industry. They arguably make the best guns in the world.

I think some Anglo-Saxons view them with hostility and hatred because of the influence they believe they hold behind the scenes.

 

[clarkejoey]

I've never established the reasons behind the strong emphasis on a Jewish person being born of a Jewish mother. It is fascinating because most other cultures strongly favour the male (explicitly or implicitly.)

I believe the principle is: "Mother's baby, father's maybe." In other words, you can be absolutely sure of a female parent, not always the male. It may also have had something to do with time and place (sinai wilderness: 1000 BCE): they may have been protecting the children of rape.

kds said: "One thing i don't understand about jews is why are they hated so muslims, hardcore christians and even white racists."

Christians explain their Jewish bugaboo with the line from the gospel where "the Jews" are supposed to have said, when Jesus was condemned: "His blood be on our heads and on our children." They are outraged that Jesus' message was pretty much ignored by his own people, and some believe there is a special corner of hell just for Jews. Pope Paul IV stated plainly in the 1960's: "Jews are not to be held accountable for the crucifixion of Jesus," but that hasn't stopped folk who just hate for hating's sake... eg white supremacists.

When Islam was surging through the Middle East (700's-800's CE), they met a lot of resistance from Jews; they just wouldn't convert! Also, there is a story - i forget the details - of Muhammad being let down/ betrayed by the Jews of Mecca (or Medina?). I'll check on that. And, more than anything, Middle Eastern Muslims resent that a bunch of exiles came back after 2000 years and reconquered Palestine. This leads to guys like Ahmedinanjab wishing to wipe Israel from the map.

 

[Archived_Member1]

One main difference I think is temperament. Most of the Jewish people I have met are very peaceful and generally professional people. I think the equivalent of the hot head Punjabi brawler type doesn't exist in that community.

Jews lack a martial philosophy in their religion... in jewish history and myth, God has always taken care of their enemies for them while they fled. they have not been taught to fight against injustice. instead they believe that it is part of their lot in life to suffer through it. this differs strikingly from the Sikh belief that it is righteous and even necessary to raise the sword against adharma.

 

[Archived_Member1]

One thing i don't understand about jews is why are they hated so muslims,hardcore christians and even white racists.

muslims have issues with them on israel and may be the past conflict.but why do white racists hate them is beyond my understanding.on sites like stormfront i was quite surprised to read that they too blame every thing on jews.

i have never in my life met a muslim who disliked "Jews". according to Islam, jews are "people of the book" and therefor acceptable as marriage partners, business partners, friends, etc.

HOWEVER... most muslims i've interacted with hate "zionists", people who believe that Jews have a birthright to the land where the state of Israel now stands. this is quite obviously because the "zionists" moved in, kicked out the palestinians, have done some land grabs from syria, etc, and basically treat the palestinian like criminals for the crime of living in Israel.

before Israeli statehood, Muslims, Jews, and Christians all lived peacefully together as neighbors. kind of like pre-partition Punjab. funny how stealing someone's land will bring out the worst in him!

 

[dalsingh]

i have never in my life met a muslim who disliked "Jews". according to Islam, jews are "people of the book" and therefor acceptable as marriage partners, business partners, friends, etc.

HOWEVER... most muslims i've interacted with hate "zionists", people who believe that Jews have a birthright to the land where the state of Israel now stands. this is quite obviously because the "zionists" moved in, kicked out the palestinians, have done some land grabs from syria, etc, and basically treat the palestinian like criminals for the crime of living in Israel.

before Israeli statehood, Muslims, Jews, and Christians all lived peacefully together as neighbors. kind of like pre-partition Punjab. funny how stealing someone's land will bring out the worst in him!

That is a complex but important issue. Some Panjabi Sikhs have a strong yearning for their old kingdom. Many feel that "Muslims" stole the land from them at partition. But you are right to highlight that a time did exist when everybody seemed to get on - circa Maharajah Ranjit Singh's time till partition. I don't know what happened to Panjabi mentalities during British rule to make people turn against each other so viciously.

 

[dalsingh]

Jews lack a martial philosophy in their religion... in jewish history and myth, God has always taken care of their enemies for them while they fled. they have not been taught to fight against injustice. instead they believe that it is part of their lot in life to suffer through it. this differs strikingly from the Sikh belief that it is righteous and even necessary to raise the sword against adharma.

They seemed to have learnt their lessons in this respect! Advanced weapons etc.

Plus I'm not too sure about that. I just find it difficult to believe that they could last this long without some martial activity. They have fought in the recent past (i.e. establishing Israel). This also begs the controversial and knotty question of a homeland for people. Surely there must have been Jewish armies in the past (forgive the complete ignorance!)

They seem to be doing very well economically in England at least.