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Islam Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Nov 29, 2006
119
0
Gurufateh

Brother, this is gurubani not work of Sahil

so say Well done to Guru Bani nt to SAhil Makkar

and thanks to our GURUs for such a perfect work.
which tells us that hw all scriptures and religions are same
Well done Sahil. I'm an idiot and may not know what I read means but God explains things in my heart after I have read. Lets all do one thing... pray for forgiveness, understanding and 'Sehi pyare mehl jinha milya twadah naam chet aave'

JO BOLE SO NIHAL.... SAAAAAAAAAAT SRI AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KE PHATEH

God help, I'm late for work again...
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
Bhayiya jee

Ur view is very right about the GURU that

without GURU there is not salvation(muktee)
its impossible to get the salvation
and Gurubani is talking about Living guru(sadguru)...

and and there is no reference in gurubani which says that there are many paths
but GURUBANI tells us only one path
which is not outer path

but it is inner path....
the way by which u can enter into ur body ...
and start ur bhakti(Meditation)

एका जोति जोति है सरीरा ॥
aykaa jot jot hai sareeraa.
The One Light is the light of all bodies.

इहु सरीरु सभु धरमु है जिसु अंदरि सचे की विचि जोति ॥
This body is the home of Dharma; the Divine Light of the True Lord is within it.


It means only this body is all religion ..
so If all the bodies have the same DIVINE LIGHT within themself .. how religion can be different.


I would like to see the reference from Gurbani that there are many paths. Gurbani says that only Naam obtained from Satguru will get you muktee. Guru Nanak Sahib has been giving muktee since Aad. I don't understand what "before Guru Nanak" means since Guru Sahib has been there forever. There is only one Satguru, Guru Nanak Sahib who has the power to give muktee. This mindset is totally different from Islam and Christianity. These religions condemn everyone to hell but Sikhi doesn't. Good deeds will help you and get you rewards for it but unless someone is a guruwala muktee will not be obtained.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Perdip,

The Koran at Chapter 5, verse 35 number is quoted as saying;

“Believers, fear Allah and seek the way to approach him, striving hard, fighting Jihad with all your might in His Cause that you may be successful. As for the disbelievers, if they had everything on earth, two times over, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Doom, it would never be accepted of them. Theirs will be a painful torment. They will desire to get out of the fire, but they shall not be released from it. They shall have an everlasting torture.”

Do you accept this translation or otherwise what does this chapter mean?
I cannot say I accept this translation as it is as I am not literate in Arabic (a very difficult language when it comes to being transalted) but agree the meaning as given by a scholar must be correct. As far as I know the meaning it is saying to do rightous deeds, believe in One God and do not associate any other being as equal or in worship with God and if you do, then you will be disgraced by the Angel of Death (also mentioned in SGGS) and they will suffer in the Hereafter just like those who were hypocritical of their faith and showed the actions of a good Muslim but never had the intentions thereof. Seek the way to approach Him I would say is be an honest and truthful, God fearing believer, a description that probably could go on a fair bit. Striving hard would be to tackle all that the none believers do to stop you from the path of Truth and fighting with Jihad is the same as what Guru Gobind Singh Ji done when he took to the sword for Truth and Justice to mankind and in his purpose of being on this planet. As for the ones who offer twice as much of the earth and it will not be accepted and the fire a place of dwelling for them... one the day of Judgement (referred to Gods Court in SGGS) when all that you have done and your accounts are weighed as to what you have done good and bad, the none beleivers or those who committed sins that can not be forgiven and were negligent of their faith will be punished and sent to hell after being disgraced by the angel of death, they will not be forgiven as this life, which is a test for all, was wasted in wordly pursuits and all that God knows to be better.

Again I will say I am not very good as a literate and I can only give replies as such but not give the true meaning or answer, which only God can give as well as making you understand, so ask God any questions you may have and iin return, may God bring you closer to the Truth and help you prosper in achieving salvation.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, Vaheguru ji ke phateh
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Gurufateh

Brother, this is gurubani not work of Sahil

so say Well done to Guru Bani nt to SAhil Makkar

and thanks to our GURUs for such a perfect work.
which tells us that hw all scriptures and religions are same
Bhul chuck maaf

I meant well done for your efforts for finding what you did. Well done to Guru bani would be an insult, I could never say such thing to Guru Bani, Guru or God but Well done is to be said to those who have started their journey on True path. Certainly say Thank you to God for sending the Guru's and by living by Guru Ji's words would be a way of respecting and showing appreciation to Guru Ji.

Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru....
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 4, 2005
4,502
2,742
40
INDIA
. one the day of Judgement (referred to Gods Court in SGGS) when all that you have done and your accounts are weighed as to what you have done good and bad, the none beleivers or those who committed sins that can not be forgiven and were negligent of their faith will be punished and sent to hell after being disgraced by the angel of death, they will not be forgiven as this life, which is a test for all, was wasted in wordly pursuits and all that God knows to be better.
dear perdip

guru nanak and other guru's firmly beleive in reincarnation.sikhism do not beleive that we have only one chance.if you are not able to merge with the god in this life then you will get another.so we sikhs do not beleive in day of judgement.every day is day of judgement.

i have a question to you do you beleive in reincarnation or day of judgement
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
Ya u r rite

Well done cant be say to GOD,
but it is always for beginners, but As m implementing the Gurubani in my life,
As i read the lines of gurubani and feel the things written are beautiful and as I have realised them in life
not only read them
so I always say to my heart...
o GURU ji KAMAAL kar ti.. so by Well done i mean to praise it... and this type of love comes from the deep layers of ur heart...

and yes one question r u talking about living by GURUS or by Living guru
means gurubani always talk about Living guru

Vaheguru
Bhul chuck maaf

I meant well done for your efforts for finding what you did. Well done to Guru bani would be an insult, I could never say such thing to Guru Bani, Guru or God but Well done is to be said to those who have started their journey on True path. Certainly say Thank you to God for sending the Guru's and by living by Guru Ji's words would be a way of respecting and showing appreciation to Guru Ji.

Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru....
 
Oct 15, 2006
104
10
Vahe guru ji ka khalsa, vahe guru ji ki fateh

ARE birla singh brother

brother please try to understand what these lines are saying

its is saying that
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE, JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE

This means :: Dont(MAT) say(KAHO) that Ved(VED) and other scriptures(KUTEB) are false(JHUTHE), but false(JHUTHA) are the people who dont understand(VICHARE) it.

So it means, try to understand the saying of VEDAS and all other scriptures(which also include our gurubani)
rather than to merely believing on it, try to understand it.


Guru Fateh

For all those brothers, who are picking up single lines from www.srigranth.org without understanding the:-
  1. Context those line were said.
  2. The whole shabad.
  3. Said by who and said to whom.
...please understand that you are misrepresenting Gurbani most of the times by picking a single line and not understanding the whole talk of the writer/speaker of those words.

As an example, by picking the single line above it has been presented that Gurbani favored the reading of vedas (atleast that is what I understood from the posting), in reality this is totally false. The lines that have been used,

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE, JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE

are from the shabad:-

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ
ਬੇਦ
ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ
ਮੁਲਾਂ
ਕਹਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਤੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਜਾਈ ਰਹਾਉ
ਪਕਰਿ
ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ
ਕਿਆ
ਉਜੂ ਪਾਕੁ ਕੀਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਧੋਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਲਾਇਆ ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਇਆ
ਤੂੰ
ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ਪਾਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਮਰਮੁਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਤੇ ਚੂਕਾ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ{ਪੰਨਾ1350}


Note that these words are from from Bhagat Kabir ji who have spoken openly and regularly on the hypocricies of Muslim and Hindu priests. The shabad above is where kabir ji is referring to the fight between Muslims and Hindus and is telling them that you are just hypocrites and are criticising each other for your own selfish means. Kabir ji further highlights the hypocricies of the Muslims of that time, he is not telling you the vedas are great, rather the subject of the talk is "the hypocricies". Please spend some time to understand the real meanings of Gurbani and stop cut/pasting single lines to suit your own philosophies.

The meaning (in fact, vayakhya) in English is: -

Kabir says that O Muslim and Hindu brothers! don't call Vedas and Qurans as false, false is you who does not invest time in first understanding them.
(This is similar to the fact that our teachers tell us in school - "Don't say that the following text book is not good for exams, first you are not good as you are not investing time in studying".) Further highlighting the hyprocricies of Muslim priest kabir says, "Oh mulla you yourself say that God is present in all, then what good are you doing by killing and gifting the chicken (murgi) to God. What good can you do by presenting God's part to God? Oh Mulla! you tell the orders of God to the people, but the doubts of your own mind are not clear. Oh Mulla! you catch a chicken etc. and bring it to sacrifice its body (soul less dead part which is just made of phsical matter) in the name of God. The Almigthy is present everywhere, then what did you make to sacrifice and gift to the almighty?

Oh Mulla! if you keep bad thoughts in your mind and read Quran, then what is the benefit of that? What the benefit of the ritual of cleaning feet, hands etc.? What is the virtue of washing face? What is the benefit of bowing your head in the Mosque? What the is benefit of going to pilgrimage to Mecca?


O Mulla! you are polluted within, you have not developed the understanding of that pious master, you have not understood his truth. Living in this confusion you have strayed away and the your mind is polluted with hypocrisies."

Central Meaning: -

If ones heart is filled with bad thoughts, then the acts of reciting Quran (doing Namaz), going for a pilgrimage etc. are all useless acts. The omnipresent Almighty cannot be pleased by sacrificing (bali, kurbani) of chicken etc. in his name.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

-Akashdeep Singh



 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
Guru Fateh

O paaji tusi kamaal kar ti
I read all the lines from the srigranth.org
as u have put these lines....... I didnt really mean that ,.... u or any other guy(including me) should start reading the Vedas or puranas or any other granths

The next lines kabir told here at that time.... because during that time actually religion was lost.....
all mslims were hypocrite....
they read Quranas but there hearts were not clean....

but it does not refer only to them.....
it refer to us also....

DONT MIND brother.. the thing m going to say rite now.....

tell me, today we have AKHAND PATHS at our homes during some functions days ... some marriages...
n u know what happens at night during parties... bottles vagara khulti he ke nahi....
I dont think so... that our gurus has told us this thing..
so are we implementing thoughts of our GURUS in our life.....

These lines are not written only for vedas or Quranas...but for us also
that why again i wud say
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE , JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE


For all those brothers, who are picking up single lines from www.srigranth.org without understanding the:-
  1. Context those line were said.
  2. The whole shabad.
  3. Said by who and said to whom.
...please understand that you are misrepresenting Gurbani most of the times by picking a single line and not understanding the whole talk of the writer/speaker of those words.

As an example, by picking the single line above it has been presented that Gurbani favored the reading of vedas (atleast that is what I understood from the posting), in reality this is totally false. The lines that have been used,

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE, JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE

are from the shabad:-

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ
ਬੇਦ
ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਕਹਤ ਹਉ ਤਉ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਰਗੀ ਮਾਰੈ
ਮੁਲਾਂ
ਕਹਹੁ ਨਿਆਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਤੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਜਾਈ ਰਹਾਉ
ਪਕਰਿ
ਜੀਉ ਆਨਿਆ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਕਉ ਬਿਸਮਿਲਿ ਕੀਆ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਾਹਤ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਹੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਆ
ਕਿਆ
ਉਜੂ ਪਾਕੁ ਕੀਆ ਮੁਹੁ ਧੋਇਆ ਕਿਆ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਰੁ ਲਾਇਆ ਜਉ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਪਟੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਹੁ ਕਿਆ ਹਜ ਕਾਬੈ ਜਾਇਆ
ਤੂੰ
ਨਾਪਾਕੁ ਪਾਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝਿਆ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਮਰਮੁਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਤੇ ਚੂਕਾ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ{ਪੰਨਾ1350}


Note that these words are from from Bhagat Kabir ji who have spoken openly and regularly on the hypocricies of Muslim and Hindu priests. The shabad above is where kabir ji is referring to the fight between Muslims and Hindus and is telling them that you are just hypocrites and are criticising each other for your own selfish means. Kabir ji further highlights the hypocricies of the Muslims of that time, he is not telling you the vedas are great, rather the subject of the talk is "the hypocricies". Please spend some time to understand the real meanings of Gurbani and stop cut/pasting single lines to suit your own philosophies.

The meaning (in fact, vayakhya) in English is: -

Kabir says that O Muslim and Hindu brothers! don't call Vedas and Qurans as false, false is you who does not invest time in first understanding them.
(This is similar to the fact that our teachers tell us in school - "Don't say that the following text book is not good for exams, first you are not good as you are not investing time in studying".) Further highlighting the hyprocricies of Muslim priest kabir says, "Oh mulla you yourself say that God is present in all, then what good are you doing by killing and gifting the chicken (murgi) to God. What good can you do by presenting God's part to God? Oh Mulla! you tell the orders of God to the people, but the doubts of your own mind are not clear. Oh Mulla! you catch a chicken etc. and bring it to sacrifice its body (soul less dead part which is just made of phsical matter) in the name of God. The Almigthy is present everywhere, then what did you make to sacrifice and gift to the almighty?

Oh Mulla! if you keep bad thoughts in your mind and read Quran, then what is the benefit of that? What the benefit of the ritual of cleaning feet, hands etc.? What is the virtue of washing face? What is the benefit of bowing your head in the Mosque? What the is benefit of going to pilgrimage to Mecca?


O Mulla! you are polluted within, you have not developed the understanding of that pious master, you have not understood his truth. Living in this confusion you have strayed away and the your mind is polluted with hypocrisies."

Central Meaning: -

If ones heart is filled with bad thoughts, then the acts of reciting Quran (doing Namaz), going for a pilgrimage etc. are all useless acts. The omnipresent Almighty cannot be pleased by sacrificing (bali, kurbani) of chicken etc. in his name.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

-Akashdeep Singh



 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
dear perdip

guru nanak and other guru's firmly beleive in reincarnation.sikhism do not beleive that we have only one chance.if you are not able to merge with the god in this life then you will get another.so we sikhs do not beleive in day of judgement.every day is day of judgement.

i have a question to you do you beleive in reincarnation or day of judgement
I am not enlightened and neither does it bother me as I cannot witness either until God brings me consciously to the point when I am aware during the time that the reincarnation or Judgement is taking place. Guru Ji has said soul reincarnates as mentioned in budhism and Geeta and Court of God is similar to the description of the day of Judgement when one's accounts will be wieghed. Who am I to disagree with Guru Ji or any other enlightened soul delivering the message of Truth? I beleive that there is only One God and He can only be realised by His Kindness and Gracious Glance after following the teachings of Guru Ji. One can read the SGGS and any Holy book a thousand times but the Truth can only be realised and understood by Gods Grace.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ke phateh
 
Jan 30, 2005
77
1
40
Mr. “Navroop”

It is disappointing to see that you spent so much time in searching Gurbani to prove your point but never spent any time in understanding it correctly. Relying on English translation is a big mistake and I must say that the translation you have copied is very wrong. Let’s discuss the Shabad first with correct meanings and context.

badhafailee gaibaanaa khasam n jaanee ||
One who does misdeeds does not recognize the true Waheguru

so keheeai dhaevaanaa aap n pashhaanee ||
He is a fool for not recognizing the truth that he too is part of Waheguru. In other words, the fool does not understand the reality.

kalehi buree sa(n)saar vaadhae khapeeai ||
He wastes his time in vikaars, misdeeds and bad actions and wastes his life.

vin naavai vaekaar bharamae pacheeai ||
Without the true Name, his life is wasted.

The above lines mean that a person who is in maya is wasting his time and does not recognize the true Name, or the reality. The next lines say:

raah dhovai eik jaanai soee sijhasee ||

There are two ways – going after maya and going after Naam. One who recognizes and understands the real true path is the smart and successful in his life.

The next lines basically say that one who gives up five vices (false ego etc) is accepted in the house of God otherwise he is lost is lying, treachery etc. I don’t understand how the translator got the meanings “All spiritual paths” which is nowhere mentioned in the shabad. No other path or religion is mentioned in the Shabad. You must look at the context of the Shabad. The next lines of the Pauree start off with “Only He is alive (awakened) whose mind is absorbed in Naam”. Pauree before the Shabad you presented has the same context.

Don’t you think it is ironic that Gurbani rejects other religions and their holy books at one place and accept them at another? Do you really think Gurbani contradicts itself? I don’t think so. Gurbani (Word of God) never contradicts itself and rejects the notion that all paths are the same. In any case, here are two links for you to read on this topic because I don’t feel like writing the same thing over and over. Read posts by Singh132 carefully. If you have any new question then let me know but arguing for the sake of argument is not what I do. Have fun

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17403&hl

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17403&hl
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Ya u r rite

Well done cant be say to GOD,
but it is always for beginners, but As m implementing the Gurubani in my life,
As i read the lines of gurubani and feel the things written are beautiful and as I have realised them in life
not only read them
so I always say to my heart...
o GURU ji KAMAAL kar ti.. so by Well done i mean to praise it... and this type of love comes from the deep layers of ur heart...

and yes one question r u talking about living by GURUS or by Living guru
means gurubani always talk about Living guru

Vaheguru
Sahil Ji

May the deeplayers of your heart get even deeper to experience an even deeper love for the Supreme Being (and I get to experience this too!) Gods knows your and mine intentions better than what we do. Bani is beyond beautiful, even blissful is not a word worthy of describing SGGS. May God colour us with His love and absorb us into His Name. I totally agree that the SGGS has different meaning to what is read when the fortunate one's are living according to the teachings of Guru Ji.

Sorry I do not understand your last line?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ke phateh
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Btw perdip, what did u mean by this advocation sign?:advocate:
Sorry Navroop Ji

The advocation sign is the impression I get from some users on this site and can only imagine them looking like the sign too saying 'Read this'. My one line of saying 'My heart accepts Islam' has aggravated many users and seems like I have been attacked by words (which can do no harm). The activists on this site jumped to conclusions as soon as they read what they did in my message, without asking a single question? Even though I do not pray Namaaz, I do not fast in Ramzaan, I do not go to Masjid, I do not meet up with Muslims, I have not become halaal, so what did I mean that my heart has accepted Islam?
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
WHAT IS TRUE NAME........do u know
Mr. “Navroop”

It is disappointing to see that you spent so much time in searching Gurbani to prove your point but never spent any time in understanding it correctly. Relying on English translation is a big mistake and I must say that the translation you have copied is very wrong. Let’s discuss the Shabad first with correct meanings and context.

badhafailee gaibaanaa khasam n jaanee ||
One who does misdeeds does not recognize the true Waheguru

so keheeai dhaevaanaa aap n pashhaanee ||
He is a fool for not recognizing the truth that he too is part of Waheguru. In other words, the fool does not understand the reality.

kalehi buree sa(n)saar vaadhae khapeeai ||
He wastes his time in vikaars, misdeeds and bad actions and wastes his life.

vin naavai vaekaar bharamae pacheeai ||
Without the true Name, his life is wasted.

The above lines mean that a person who is in maya is wasting his time and does not recognize the true Name, or the reality. The next lines say:

raah dhovai eik jaanai soee sijhasee ||

There are two ways – going after maya and going after Naam. One who recognizes and understands the real true path is the smart and successful in his life.

The next lines basically say that one who gives up five vices (false ego etc) is accepted in the house of God otherwise he is lost is lying, treachery etc. I don’t understand how the translator got the meanings “All spiritual paths” which is nowhere mentioned in the shabad. No other path or religion is mentioned in the Shabad. You must look at the context of the Shabad. The next lines of the Pauree start off with “Only He is alive (awakened) whose mind is absorbed in Naam”. Pauree before the Shabad you presented has the same context.

Don’t you think it is ironic that Gurbani rejects other religions and their holy books at one place and accept them at another? Do you really think Gurbani contradicts itself? I don’t think so. Gurbani (Word of God) never contradicts itself and rejects the notion that all paths are the same. In any case, here are two links for you to read on this topic because I don’t feel like writing the same thing over and over. Read posts by Singh132 carefully. If you have any new question then let me know but arguing for the sake of argument is not what I do. Have fun

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17403&hl

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=17403&hl
 
Jan 12, 2007
1
0
36
Dear Sayed,
I dont kno where to start from or where to end....As it seems you have no knowledge at all bout sikhism...
But here Im about to tell you something different to do. I mean many of my brothers have given you a long lesson on sikhism and I am sure bout it that you are not goin to believe them at all. This is because some Muslims who have a wrong impression that, to believe in only their religion and the rest is just a piece of ****:eek: .
But my friend I will suggest you something really nice and also what you will feel to do.:idea:
Instead of we telling you the fact about our religion you can find it out by yourself by asking your own people. I mean the Muslims.
1 . Those Muslims who believe in the Gurus in Sikhism.
2 . Those Muslims who started fighting with hindus after Guru Nanak's demise saying that they wanted to bury his body as he was their Guru and not of hindus.
3 . Those Muslims who still visit Gurudwaras and sing our hyms. (They do Kirtan)
4 . Muslims of Pakistan who everyday visit Nankana Sahib(The birth place of Guru Nanak) and say that Guru Nanak was their Guru too.
Also the Nankana Sahib Gurudwara is taken care by the local Muslims!!!:shock:
5 . Ask the recent Maulana of your sacred place Mecca, about what had happened when Guru Nanak came there and why there is a Black coloured Cloth surronding your Mecca. What does it hide. This was not before...The cloth around the Mecca wasn't there first. It was done after some years when Guruji visited the place. Be bold ask your own persons. Instead of pointing flaws in some one's religion have full knowledge of that religion!!!:mad:


Try doing this. By this all your doubts will be cleared and also by your own community persons...
Regards,
Khalsa...
 

navroopsingh

SPNer
Nov 15, 2006
84
3
Ah whatever I already admitted defeat in my last post...you may not have noticed the little line inbetween the two shabads.I always seem to argue for the sake of argument...have to work on that!

It seems that that would help my argument but i dont need to tell you that it took a long time of searching through sikhitothemax to find such one quote. The rest spoke of single paths and some were like the following.
 

tehel singh

SPNer
Jan 16, 2007
4
0
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA WAHE GURU JI FATHE
HARNAM 46, SEEN YOUR POSTING ABOUT A MUSLIM PERSON ATTACKING
SIKHISM AND PARTICULARLY THE GURUS.
First of all let me just say this (NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA ,TERE
PANNE SARBAT DA BAHLA)
Q 1: Mohammed , Jesus, Moses were prophets.
WAS MOHAMMED A PROPHET ?
A 1: I ASK THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIFE HISTORY OF THIS LAST PROPHET WHICH WAS PARTLY WRITTEN BY HIS WIFE AISHA. IN VOLUME 7, BOOK 62,NUMBER 64 SAHIH BUKHARI.
NARRATED AISHA: THAT PROPHET MARRIED HER WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD AND THAT HE CONSSUMATED HIS MARRIAGE WHEN SHE WAS NINE YEARS OLD.AND HE WAS AN OLD MAN OF 54 YEARS.
When she was 6 Mohammed asked, Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father for her hand. Abu Bakr thought this was improper,because,as he said "I am your brother"; Mohammed brushed aside Abu Bakr’s reservation
By saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha.
[Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI 17:18].
VERY CONVENIENT BEING A PROPHET.
TODAY IF THIS HAD HAPPENED THE LAST PROPHET WOULD HAVE BEEN BEHIND BARS.
MOHAMMED WAS HAVING SEX WITH A CHILD WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH HER FRIENDS NOT SHARING A BED A WITH A MAN OLD ENOUGH TO BE HER GRANDFATHER.
Narrated Jaber bin Abdhulla,
When I got married ALLAH’S APOSTEL said to me "What type of lady have you married?" I replied , "I have married a matron," HE SAID , WHY?
DON’T YOU HAVE A LIKING FOR YOUNG VIRGINS AND FONDLING THEM ?, Jabir also said: ALLAH ‘S APOSTLE SAID, ‘’ WHY DON’T YOU MARRY A YOUNG GIRL SO YOU MIGHT PLAY WITH HER AND SHE WITH YOU .
SILENT CHILDREN
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 67:
NARRETED ABU HURAIR
THE PROPHET SAID , A MATRON SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER CONSULTING HER; AND A VIRGIN SHOULD NOT GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER HER PERMISSION, THE PEOPLE ASKED, O ALLAH’S APOSTEL!
HOW CAN WE KNOW HER PERMISSION?,
HE SAID, HER SILENCE(INDICATES HER PERMISSION)
SO IS THAT HOW A PROPHET BEHAVES ,
AND COULD THAT PERSON SAY, WHAT RELIGION CONDONES THE DISTRUCTION OF A CHILDHOOD
PROPHET SAYS MARRY YOUNG VIRGINS-:
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 17
ON THE OTHER HAND GURU NANAK JI HAVE TOLD HIS SIKHS,
TO RESPECT WOMEN BY COMPOSING A HYMM,
[SO KION MANDA AKHIA JO JAMEIN RAJAN] ( WHY USE DERAGOTORY REMARKS FOR THE ONE WHO GIVES BIRTH TO KINGS AND PROPHETS).
WHILE WE ARE AT IT WHY DID MOHHAMED NEEDED TO MARRY 9 WOMEN ? AND AS AISHA SAY’S MOHAMMED WAS ONLY VISTED BY ANGEL GABRIEL WHEN HE WAS WITH HER , WHY DIDN’T GABRIEL VISIT HIM WHEN HE WAS WITH OTHERS
IS IT BECAUSE SHE WAS A CHILD AND HE COULD PERSUADE HER THAT HE COULD SEE THE ANGEL, I SAID HE ONLY BECAUSE AISHA HAS SAID IN HER HADIT THAT SHE COULD NOT SEE ANY THING.
THANK AKALPURAKH THAT WE WERE BORN IN A SIKH FAMILY.
PROPHET MOHAMMED, MOSES AND JESUS WERN’T ODRNARY MEN.
SO WHAT IS IT THAT MOHAMMED IS SUPPPOSED TO HAVE DONE WHICH IS DIFFERENT, HE HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT HE COULD NOT PERFORM ANY MIRACLE

Well, when the people of Arabia were confronted by Mohammed and this new religion, Islam, they asked him to do a miracle, so they could believe in him. And in the Koran, again and again it says, "I cannot perform any miracle." So if anyone would say that Mohammed performed any miracle, this is against the Koran. It is very clear in the Koran, that Mohammed said again and again, "I am but a messenger of God. I do no miracle." That is one thing.And then again, of course, when you come to Moses, when he met the Lord, he said to Him, "I will go to the Jews, to the Israelis, and I will tell them that I met God. They say He didn't appear to you. What shall I say?" He said, "Well, I'll give you three miracles, that you may authenticate your prophethood with." But Mohammed had not one miracle to authenticate his prophethood.

Secular history records that in 610, by which time Mohammed had become the leader of his tribe, he was in a cave meditating and seeking to discover which of the jinni was indeed most powerful and worthy to become the tribal jinni of his family. Mohammed claimed that one of the jinni appeared to him and identified himself as the Angel Gabriel5 and appointed him as 'prophet.' Mohammed immediately began to promote himself as a prophet of god and aggressively began recruiting in and around Mecca while challenging the idol worship of pagan Arab's
Banu Qurayza
The Banu Qurayza had been reluctant in helping Mohammed against the Quraysh (Keep in mind that the Quraysh tribe were Mohammed's own people). Conveniently once again, Mohammed claimed that he had divine knowledge about a conspiracy by the Banu-Qurayza to kill him. This became his justification to starve the tribe into surrender by besieging their fortress for twenty-five days. He then sentenced every male member of the tribe to death, enslaved all the women and children, and plundered all of their property
I THINK THIS SHOULD BE HELPFUL IN ANSWERING THE PROPHET QUESTION.
Q HINDUS
A THE SIKH RELIGION IS A SEPARATE RELIGION FROM VEDIC FAITHS
THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER FAITHS
OF WHICH HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE.
IT IS SAID THAT MOHAMMED WHEN HE WAS IN MECCA WHEN THE PAGAN WORSHIP WAS RIFE, HE ACKNOWLEGED THE THREE PAGAN GODS TO SAVE HIS OWN SKIN BUT AS SOON AS HE GOT HIS MEN ARMED AND READY, HE CHANGED HIS TUNE.
MOST OF ALL TELL THIS PERSON TO STUDY ARABIC THROUGHLY AND THEN READ THE KORAN.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE MULLAS DON’T WANT TO TRANSLATE THE KORAN ?
IT’S BECAUSE THE KORAN IS FULL OF CONTRADITIONS.
WHILE THE GURU’S TEACHING ARE THERE FOR EVERYONE TO READ AND TO UNDERSTAND, IT CAN BE TRANSLATED IN ANY LANGUAGE THE MASSAGE IS THE SAME.
SO GURNAM 46 DO NOT BE INTIMEDATED BY THIS YOUNG MAN HAVE ATAL FAITH IN WAHEGURU AND LEAVE THESE PEOPLE TO THEIR OWN IDEAS
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA ,WAHE GURU JI KI FATHE.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tehel singh

SPNer
Jan 16, 2007
4
0
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA WAHE GURU JI FATHE
HARNAM 46, SEEN YOUR POSTING ABOUT A MUSLIM PERSON ATTACKING
SIKHISM AND PARTICULARLY THE GURUS.
First of all let me just say this (NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA ,TERE
PANNE SARBAT DA BAHLA)
Q 1: Mohammed , Jesus, Moses were prophets.
WAS MOHAMMED A PROPHET ?
A 1: I ASK THIS BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE LIFE HISTORY OF THIS LAST PROPHET WHICH WAS PARTLY WRITTEN BY HIS WIFE AISHA. IN VOLUME 7, BOOK 62,NUMBER 64 SAHIH BUKHARI.
NARRATED AISHA:
THAT PROPHET MARRIED HER WHEN SHE WAS SIX YEARS OLD AND THAT HE CONSSUMATED HIS MARRIAGE WHEN SHE WAS NINE YEARS OLD.AND HE WAS AN OLD MAN OF 54 YEARS.
When she was 6 Mohammed asked, Abu Bakr, Aisha’s father for her hand. Abu Bakr thought this was improper,because,as he said "I am your brother"; Mohammed brushed aside Abu Bakr’s reservation
By saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha.
[Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI 17:18].
VERY CONVENIENT BEING A PROPHET.
TODAY IF THIS HAD HAPPENED THE LAST PROPHET WOULD HAVE BEEN BEHIND BARS.
MOHAMMED WAS HAVING SEX WITH A CHILD WHO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING WITH HER FRIENDS NOT SHARING A BED A WITH A MAN OLD ENOUGH TO BE HER GRANDFATHER.
Narrated Jaber bin Abdhulla,
When I got married ALLAH’S APOSTEL said to me "What type of lady have you married?" I replied , "I have married a matron," HE SAID , WHY?
DON’T YOU HAVE A LIKING FOR YOUNG VIRGINS AND FONDLING THEM ?, Jabir also said: ALLAH ‘S APOSTLE SAID, ‘’ WHY DON’T YOU MARRY A YOUNG GIRL SO YOU MIGHT PLAY WITH HER AND SHE WITH YOU .
SILENT CHILDREN
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 67:
NARRETED ABU HURAIR
THE PROPHET SAID , A MATRON SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER CONSULTING HER; AND A VIRGIN SHOULD NOT GIVEN IN MARRIAGE EXCEPT AFTER HER PERMISSION, THE PEOPLE ASKED, O ALLAH’S APOSTEL!
HOW CAN WE KNOW HER PERMISSION?,
HE SAID, HER SILENCE(INDICATES HER PERMISSION)
SO IS THAT HOW A PROPHET BEHAVES ,
AND COULD THAT PERSON SAY, WHAT RELIGION CONDONES THE DISTRUCTION OF A CHILDHOOD
PROPHET SAYS MARRY YOUNG VIRGINS-:
VOLUME 7, BOOK 62, NUMBER 17
ON THE OTHER HAND GURU NANAK JI HAVE TOLD HIS SIKHS,
TO RESPECT WOMEN BY COMPOSING A HYMM,
[SO KION MANDA AKHIA JO JAMEIN RAJAN] ( WHY USE DERAGOTORY REMARKS FOR THE ONE WHO GIVES BIRTH TO KINGS AND PROPHETS).

WHILE WE ARE AT IT WHY DID MOHHAMED NEEDED TO MARRY 9 WOMEN ? AND AS AISHA SAY’S MOHAMMED WAS ONLY VISTED BY ANGEL GABRIEL WHEN HE WAS WITH HER , WHY DIDN’T GABRIEL VISIT HIM WHEN HE WAS WITH OTHERS
IS IT BECAUSE SHE WAS A CHILD AND HE COULD PERSUADE HER THAT HE COULD SEE THE ANGEL, I SAID HE ONLY BECAUSE AISHA HAS SAID IN HER HADIT THAT SHE COULD NOT SEE ANY THING.
THANK AKALPURAKH THAT WE WERE BORN IN A SIKH FAMILY.
PROPHET MOHAMMED, MOSES AND JESUS WERN’T ODRNARY MEN.
SO WHAT IS IT THAT MOHAMMED IS SUPPPOSED TO HAVE DONE WHICH IS DIFFERENT, HE HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT HE COULD NOT PERFORM ANY MIRACLE

Well, when the people of Arabia were confronted by Mohammed and this new religion, Islam, they asked him to do a miracle, so they could believe in him. And in the Koran, again and again it says, "I cannot perform any miracle." So if anyone would say that Mohammed performed any miracle, this is against the Koran. It is very clear in the Koran, that Mohammed said again and again, "I am but a messenger of God. I do no miracle." That is one thing.And then again, of course, when you come to Moses, when he met the Lord, he said to Him, "I will go to the Jews, to the Israelis, and I will tell them that I met God. They say He didn't appear to you. What shall I say?" He said, "Well, I'll give you three miracles, that you may authenticate your prophethood with." But Mohammed had not one miracle to authenticate his prophethood.

Secular history records that in 610, by which time Mohammed had become the leader of his tribe, he was in a cave meditating and seeking to discover which of the jinni was indeed most powerful and worthy to become the tribal jinni of his family. Mohammed claimed that one of the jinni appeared to him and identified himself as the Angel Gabriel5 and appointed him as 'prophet.' Mohammed immediately began to promote himself as a prophet of god and aggressively began recruiting in and around Mecca while challenging the idol worship of pagan Arab's
Banu Qurayza
The Banu Qurayza had been reluctant in helping Mohammed against the Quraysh (Keep in mind that the Quraysh tribe were Mohammed's own people). Conveniently once again, Mohammed claimed that he had divine knowledge about a conspiracy by the Banu-Qurayza to kill him. This became his justification to starve the tribe into surrender by besieging their fortress for twenty-five days. He then sentenced every male member of the tribe to death, enslaved all the women and children, and plundered all of their property
I THINK THIS SHOULD BE HELPFUL IN ANSWERING THE PROPHET QUESTION.
Q HINDUS
A THE SIKH RELIGION IS A SEPARATE RELIGION FROM VEDIC FAITHS
THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT TALK ABOUT ANY OTHER FAITHS
OF WHICH HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE.
IT IS SAID THAT MOHAMMED WHEN HE WAS IN MECCA WHEN THE PAGAN WORSHIP WAS RIFE, HE
ACKNOWLEGED THE THREE PAGAN GODS TO SAVE HIS OWN SKIN BUT AS SOON AS HE GOT HIS MEN ARMED AND READY, HE CHANGED HIS TUNE.
MOST OF ALL TELL THIS PERSON TO STUDY ARABIC THROUGHLY AND THEN READ THE KORAN.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE MULLAS DON’T WANT TO TRANSLATE THE KORAN ?
IT’S BECAUSE THE KORAN IS FULL OF CONTRADITIONS.
WHILE THE GURU’S TEACHING ARE THERE FOR EVERYONE TO READ AND TO UNDERSTAND, IT CAN BE TRANSLATED IN ANY LANGUAGE THE MASSAGE IS THE SAME.
SO GURNAM 46 DO NOT BE INTIMEDATED BY THIS YOUNG MAN HAVE ATAL FAITH IN WAHEGURU AND LEAVE THESE PEOPLE TO THEIR OWN IDEAS
WAHE GURU JI KA KHALSA ,WAHE GURU JI KI FATHE.


 

badmash

SPNer
Jan 26, 2007
139
5
Why all the intellectual bs? The fact remains the achilles heal of sikhism is its very egalatarian nature. While espousing peace, and acceptance, we should be instilling true pride in the sikh youth and community. The categorization of our religion as inferior by others can be taken up as a point of pride by us, and used to unite us further. But do not forget, and I think most people do today. Trying to separate sikhism from its punjabi roots is like trying to glue a fallen tree to its stump. The accomplishment of sikhism and sikhs, and especially its martial feats, are highly woven with the tough and resilient nature of punjabis themselves. I think the reason we as a people are being "amalgamated" or "absorbed" in India and abroad is due to both the downside of progress and prosperity, and our continuing dispersal from our punjabi roots. Just some thoughts.
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

Meanings of words given below-please feel free to correct or expand. Please put the words together and share your understanding of the shabad, how you implement the message...

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