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Islam Islam View On Sikhism-please Help

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
"is what starts Muslims on slandering Sikhism"???? - you got to be joking!!

No offense but I dont think that yours or your muslim collegues agenda or goal is the same as Sikhi.! I am making this comments in reference to the contents of this topic. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/48964-post1.html
and from general observations.

Mia Mir a Guru? No.

Guru Arjan Dev ji a Guru yes . Interesting how a muslim has picked Guru Arjun Dev ji of all the Gurus.




http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/14560-guru-granth-sahib-revealed-god-responding-2.html#post48962


The problem is with evangelist types. There too many Muslim fundamentalists like yourself at Universities, WWW and various other places targeting Sikh youth/adults who are either too guliable, do not know enough of their teachings as recorded directly by the Sikh Gurus in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, mixing with the wrong crowd etc. These fundamentalist pretend to have Sikh [punjabi] sounding names, might even wear a Kara, or even blatantly lie to say that they are Sikhs. This is a fact and is and has been happening for many years. This what their Mullahs have brain washed them into doing unfortunately.
Kaur Ji, I am not talking about who is Guru but the example that Guru Ji set... the need for love in humanity.

I only ask God to guide me and I will not reject anything that God shows me to be Truth. I cannot go against Islam, esecially after Guru Nanak Dev Ji quoted...

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.

Guru Nanak further quoted...

PAUREE: The followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You. Uncounted are those who fall at Your Door. Brahma meditates on You, as does Indra on his throne. Shiva and Vishnu, and their incarnations, chant the Lord’s Praise with their mouths, as do the Pirs, the spiritual teachers, the prophets and the Shaykhs, the silent sages and the seers. Through and through, the Formless Lord is woven into each and every heart. One is destroyed through falsehood; through righteousness, one prospers. Whatever the Lord links him to, to that he is linked.

Kaur 1, I will not reply to your comments as I fear God and wish to speak nothing bad against anyone or any being. If you are looking for an answer to something you cannot find in SGGS. Look for it in the Bhagad Gita & Quran as Guru Nanak Dev Ji said...

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet’s Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber.

Kabir JI said...

You fashioned all these men and women, Lord. All these are Your Forms. Kabeer is the child of God, Allah, Raam. All the Gurus and prophets are mine. || 5 || Says Kabeer, listen, O men and women: seek the Sanctuary of the One. Chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O mortals, and you shall surely be carried across. || 6 || 2 ||

PRABHAATEE: First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad?


PRABHAATEE: Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

I need not quote anything more and I do not like to say what I think or what my view is as I am nothing more than a mere mortal (manmukh) and never can I say this or that or anything that goes against Guru Ji's words. Ask for the True understanding and meaning of SGGS. Peace.
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
so you want to say that sikhs are responsible for provoking muslims against sikhism?.btw it is your islam that condemns all kafirs to hell.why just you don't try to spread the message of universal spirituality to muslim forums
and then we see what is their response.the only thing on muslim forum they say is convert to islam or go to hell.
I will continue to read the sweet words of the Guru's in SGGS rather than the bitterness of hate and ego found in this site (apologies to those of you who are True).Islam is not mine, everything belings to God and has come to God and will come to answer to God in the end.
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
nav ji tell me what is the defination of good in a religion.aurangzeb is still considered very good muslim by majority of muslims.so should all muslims be like him?
Sat Sri Akaal Ji KDS

I will not tell you what is a good Muslim. SGGS Ji tells you what a good Muslim is...

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will.

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.
 
Jul 10, 2006
918
77
Kaur Ji, I am not talking about who is Guru but the example that Guru Ji set... the need for love in humanity.

I only ask God to guide me and I will not reject anything that God shows me to be Truth. I cannot go against Islam, esecially after Guru Nanak Dev Ji quoted...

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.

Guru Nanak further quoted...

PAUREE: The followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You. Uncounted are those who fall at Your Door. Brahma meditates on You, as does Indra on his throne. Shiva and Vishnu, and their incarnations, chant the Lord’s Praise with their mouths, as do the Pirs, the spiritual teachers, the prophets and the Shaykhs, the silent sages and the seers. Through and through, the Formless Lord is woven into each and every heart. One is destroyed through falsehood; through righteousness, one prospers. Whatever the Lord links him to, to that he is linked.

Kaur 1, I will not reply to your comments as I fear God and wish to speak nothing bad against anyone or any being. If you are looking for an answer to something you cannot find in SGGS. Look for it in the Bhagad Gita & Quran as Guru Nanak Dev Ji said...

Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet’s Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber.

Kabir JI said...

You fashioned all these men and women, Lord. All these are Your Forms. Kabeer is the child of God, Allah, Raam. All the Gurus and prophets are mine. || 5 || Says Kabeer, listen, O men and women: seek the Sanctuary of the One. Chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O mortals, and you shall surely be carried across. || 6 || 2 ||

PRABHAATEE: First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad?


PRABHAATEE: Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

I need not quote anything more and I do not like to say what I think or what my view is as I am nothing more than a mere mortal (manmukh) and never can I say this or that or anything that goes against Guru Ji's words. Ask for the True understanding and meaning of SGGS. Peace.
My personal view and am not speaking for anyone here, Perdip if you want to promote Islam, go ahead but do that in a muslim site!.

Saying that the koran and Sri guru granth sahib ji are the same is incorrect in my opinion. But as you have already said previously that you have accepted islam then it shows that you dont know what Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is all about and exactly what a Guru is.

And yes, I do tend to be blunt to anyone who start babeling on about the Koran, islam etc on a Sikh forum. And yes, I do have the tendency to lose my cool but am refraining from really losing my cool and typing what I really feel like saying. Perhaps its because even though I respect other religion, I just about can tolerate Islam and their views.!

Only recently, SPN among other Sikh forums had a buffoon brainwashed muslim posing his/her 10 questions. What do you expect?

Please look at the original post of this topic. We have yet another another brainwashed individual writting nonsence about Sikhi and Hinduism.

"Hello- some person in another forum who is a muslim has posted this and i was wondering if anybody can come back with a well delevoped argument to explain how he is clearly wrong:

"Sikhism isn't even descended from God! It's about some philosophical Gurus who teach the 'right way to live' - exactly like Buddhism (except they only have one philosophical Guru - Gautama Siddharta).

I wouldn't really count Sikhism as a religion - more as a collection of philosophical ideas (good ideas though!).

However, Where are its' prophets? Who wrote your Holy Book? How many of your prophets have had any sort of *alleged* contact with God? You only have a bunch of Gurus talking about God don't you? They seem like mere mortals to me.

Prophet Muhammad, Moses and Jesus weren't ordinary men. Your Gurus it seems were.

Correct me if I'm wrong as my knowledge on Sikhism is rather limited"



this is not all he carrys on more...


"No offence, but according to my personal experience, Hinduism is a load of made-up-stuff. They have a tonne of stories about different Gods doing human-like acts - a bit like Greek Mythology. So in that aspect, I think we can assume that Hindus have very little understanding of God.

Sikh traditions are not even descended from God! Your Gurus literally made them up as they went along!

Also, what religion did the Punjabis have before Sikhism was introduced. It could only have been either of Islam or Hinduism. (I doubt Christianity was widely prevalent in India/Pakistan anyway)

What miracles did you Gurus perform, just out of interest? I bet they pulled a rabbit out of a top hat!"



I have tried to come up with the basic facts but its clear there needs to be more to make sure this doesnt happen again.. this is in a mixed race school and we cant let this boy get away with saying these things i personally think this is a stab at sikhi and am disgraced he says these things without viable evidence. Please help- and prove this person wrong. thankyou xxxx"


Perdip, a suggestion to you, how about you go to this muslim forums site and post your selected quotations from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji there. It will help from the Sikhi point of view dont you think.:) The originator of this post has asked for help hasnt he? Well, then help him!.
 
Jan 30, 2005
77
1
40
Mr. Perdip, Gurbani does not praise any religion or prophet. Gurbani also rejects falsehood that exists in other religions. Now, let’s discuss the quotes you have posted without actually understanding the essence behind them.

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.

According to Gurbani, duties of a “Muslim” are not as same as listed in Quran. Guru Sahib redefined the words such as “Muslim” “Hindu” “Pandit” “Namaaz” etc. Gurbani defines Muslim as someone who always loves truth, fears God and loves him, helps others, shares his wealth with poor and helps needy, and gets rid of ego and worldly attachments. Quran on the other hand provides a different definition which states that a “true muslim” should kill the “kafirs”, help only muslims and be “ruthless” to idolaters.


PAUREE: The followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You. Uncounted are those who fall at Your Door. Brahma meditates on You, as does Indra on his throne. Shiva and Vishnu, and their incarnations, chant the Lord’s Praise with their mouths, as do the Pirs, the spiritual teachers, the prophets and the Shaykhs, the silent sages and the seers. Through and through, the Formless Lord is woven into each and every heart. One is destroyed through falsehood; through righteousness, one prospers. Whatever the Lord links him to, to that he is linked.



The quote is simply saying that everyone is praising Waheguru. No where does it state that Islam is equal to Sikhi or Islam is the truth.


Kaur 1, I will not reply to your comments as I fear God and wish to speak nothing bad against anyone or any being. If you are looking for an answer to something you cannot find in SGGS. Look for it in the Bhagad Gita & Quran as Guru Nanak Dev Ji said...

Gita contradicts itself. Quran is full of grammatical errors and provides no spiritual guidance. It is a book of instruction for muslims.



Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet’s Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber.

Here is the Shabad and correct translation.
ਅਲਹ ਅਗਮ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਬੰਦੇ ॥ ਛੋਡਿ ਖਿਆਲ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਕੇ ਧੰਧੇ ॥
ਹੋਇ ਪੈ ਖਾਕ ਫਕੀਰ ਮੁਸਾਫਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ਕਬੂਲੁ ਦਰਾ ॥1॥
ਸਚੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਯਕੀਨ ਮੁਸਲਾ ॥ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿਹੁ ਆਸਾ ॥
ਦੇਹ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਉਲਾਣਾ ਕਲਮ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਪਾਕੁ ਖਰਾ ॥2॥
ਸਰਾ ਸਰੀਅਤਿ ਲੇ ਕੰਮਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਤਰੀਕਤਿ ਤਰਕ ਖੋਜਿ ਟੋਲਾਵਹੁ ॥
ਮਾਰਫਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਹੁ ਅਬਦਾਲਾ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਹਕੀਕਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਾ ॥3॥
ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਦਿਲ ਮਾਹਿ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥ ਦਸ ਅਉਰਾਤ ਰਖਹੁ ਬਦ ਰਾਹੀ ॥
ਪੰਚ ਮਰਦ ਸਿਦਕਿ ਲੇ ਬਾਧਹੁ ਖੈਰਿ ਸਬੂਰੀ ਕਬੂਲ ਪਰਾ ॥4॥

O slave of God (Allah), forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements. Become the dust of the feet of the humble Saints and consider yourself a traveler on this journey. Then you shall be approved in the house of God. Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat. Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes. Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. This is the real spiritual way of life. Let your spiritual cleansing be giving up worldly attachments and seeking God. Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom. O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. The real Koran and the Bible is Remembering God’s name within your heart, practicing truth, restraining the ten sensory organs from straying into evil, and tying up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and only then you shall be acceptable in the house of God.


You fashioned all these men and women, Lord. All these are Your Forms. Kabeer is the child of God, Allah, Raam. All the Gurus and prophets are mine. || 5 || Says Kabeer, listen, O men and women: seek the Sanctuary of the One. Chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, O mortals, and you shall surely be carried across. || 6 || 2 ||

Kabir Ji is saying that God has many names. It doesn’t mean teaching of Islam or Hinduism is accepted by Bhagat Ji. Name “Allah” had existed before Mohammad was born. His father’s name was Abdullah.



PRABHAATEE: First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings. From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad?

According to Hinduism (caste system) a lower caste person is inferior and according to Islam “kafirs” and idolaters are bad and not trustable. The quote rejects both notions by saying that everyone (human beings) is created equally which means no one is born inferior, dirty or bad. In other words, actions define a person not birth.



PRABHAATEE: Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.


This particular panktee you have used is as follows:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ - Vedas and Quran
ਕਹਹੁ -I (Kabeer) say
ਮਤ - Religions
ਝੂਠੇ – false

Now the meanings are clear. Kabeer Ji says that “I openly say that religions (ways) preached by Vedas and Quran are false and false are those who do not understand this fact.” The word “Mat” does not mean “Do not” but it means Religions or different way to reach God. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Himself rejected the authority of these books by saying:

ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

Notice how the word “Mat” is used in this context. Guru Gobind Singh Ji is clearly rejecting the religion preached by Puranas, Quran and other prophets.

Here are some more quotes from Gurbani that reject Vedas and Quran:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਇਫਤਰਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਿਲ ਕਾ ਫਿਕਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਅੰਗ 727

ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਜੇ ਵੇਦ ਪੜੈ ਜੁਗ ਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਅੰਗ 647

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਇਨ੍* ਪੜਿਆ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਅੰਗ 747


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Mr. Perdip, Gurbani does not praise any religion or prophet. Gurbani also rejects falsehood that exists in other religions. Now, let’s discuss the quotes you have posted without actually understanding the essence behind them.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sat Sri Akaal Bijla Ji

Thank you Bijla Ji. You have said all that is required. I did not mean to say anything about the Gurbani promoting any religion and nor do I wish to do so in anyway. It is the Truth that needs to be promoted and SGGS does this in a non biased way. The Truth exists in all faiths but it is the people who portray it in the wrong way. I may not be as literate as you and what I wish to say may come across in the wrong way when written, especially to Kaur Ji.

Islam simply means peace and I am all for peace. People do not read between the lines about what is said in the Quran and we take words for what they literally read and people tend to concentrate on the wordly actions rather than the spiritual and this is why God sent Guru Ji.

To conlude this subject... You will not get an Islam view on Sikhism because Sikhism was not around when Islam came and you will only get people (whether Muslim or another faith) view on Sikhism. Guru Ji had every right to give the view on Muslim as said in SGGS according to what was going on at that time. Peoples views on Islam and Sikhism may always be subject to criticism simly because the Truth is not a simple thing to understand and cannot be undertsood until one receives Gods Gracious Glance. You will only get people view on Sikhism until God wishes to send another Guru Ji who may end up saying the same things about Sikhs (I stress people who think they are Sikhs) as Guru Ji did about Hindu's and Muslim's, simply because we humans are subject to error, especially me in Kaur Ji's eye's! I have a book called 'During the Early Hours' and Bijla Ji, believe me if you read this book, it researches into the words of the Quran as you have about SGGS in your reply and only after reading this book would you know what Islam is about... 'to obtain salvation with God & Peace'. It is the best reference to the Quran I have read and is concentrates on the spiritual side of Islam, the essence of Islam and very similar to SGGS. You cannot say they are the same and if you are researching into another religion/faith you need to do it with an open mind and ask God for His help in grasping the Truth because as you said, the Gita will contradict itself and the Quran has incorrect grammar. Anyways, I'm a failure simply because of the following...

O​
NE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
SIREE RAAG, FIRST MEHL, FIRST HOUSE, ASHTAPADEES:​
I speak and chant His Praises, vibrating the instrument of my mind. The more I know Him, the more I vibrate it. The One, unto whom we vibrate and sing—how great is He, and where is His Place? Those who speak of Him and praise Him—they all continue speaking of Him with love. || 1 || O Baba, the Lord Allah is Inaccessible and Infinite. Sacred is His Name, and Sacred is His Place. He is the True Cherisher. || 1 || Pause || The extent of Your Command cannot be seen; no one knows how to write it. Even if a hundred poets met together, they could not describe even a tiny bit of it. No one has found Your Value; they all merely write what they have heard again and again. || 2 || The Pirs, the Prophets, the spiritual teachers, the faithful, the innocents and the martyrs, the Shaikhs, the mystics, the Qazis, the Mullahs and the Dervishes at His Door—they are blessed all the more as they continue reading their prayers in praise to Him. || 3 || He seeks no advice when He builds; He seeks no advice when He destroys. He seeks no advice while giving or taking. He alone knows His Creative Power; He Himself does all deeds. He beholds all in His Vision. He gives to those with whom He is pleased. || 4 || His Place and His Name are not known, no one knows how great is His Name. How great is that place where my Sovereign Lord dwells? No one can reach it; whom shall I go and ask? || 5 || One class of people does not like the other, when one has been made great. Greatness is only in His Great Hands; He gives to those with whom He is pleased. By the Hukam of His Command, He Himself regenerates, without a moment’s delay. || 6 || Everyone cries out, "More! More!", with the idea of receiving. How great should we call the Giver? His Gifts are beyond estimation. O Nanak, there is no deficiency; Your Storehouses are filled to overflowing, age after age.


Japp mann...

Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji ke Phateh
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Mr. Perdip, Gurbani does not praise any religion or prophet. Gurbani also rejects falsehood that exists in other religions. Now, let’s discuss the quotes you have posted without actually understanding the essence behind them.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sat Sri Akaal Bijla Ji

Thank you Bijla Ji. You have said all that is required. I did not mean to say anything about the Gurbani promoting any religion and nor do I wish to do so in anyway. It is the Truth that needs to be promoted and SGGS does this in a non biased way. The Truth exists in all faiths but it is the people who portray it in the wrong way. I may not be as literate as you and what I wish to say may come across in the wrong way when written, especially to Kaur Ji.

Islam simply means peace and I am all for peace. People do not read between the lines about what is said in the Quran and we take words for what they literally read and people tend to concentrate on the wordly actions rather than the spiritual and this is why God sent Guru Ji.

To conlude this subject... You will not get an Islam view on Sikhism because Sikhism was not around when Islam came and you will only get people (whether Muslim or another faith) view on Sikhism. Guru Ji had every right to give the view on Muslim as said in SGGS according to what was going on at that time. Peoples views on Islam and Sikhism may always be subject to criticism simly because the Truth is not a simple thing to understand and cannot be undertsood until one receives Gods Gracious Glance. You will only get people view on Sikhism until God wishes to send another Guru Ji who may end up saying the same things about Sikhs (I stress people who think they are Sikhs) as Guru Ji did about Hindu's and Muslim's, simply because we humans are subject to error, especially me in Kaur Ji's eye's! I have a book called 'During the Early Hours' and Bijla Ji, believe me if you read this book, it researches into the words of the Quran as you have about SGGS in your reply and only after reading this book would you know what Islam is about... 'to obtain salvation with God & Peace'. It is the best reference to the Quran I have read and is concentrates on the spiritual side of Islam, the essence of Islam and very similar to SGGS. You cannot say they are the same and if you are researching into another religion/faith you need to do it with an open mind and ask God for His help in grasping the Truth because as you said, the Gita will contradict itself and the Quran has incorrect grammar. Anyways, I'm a failure simply because of the following...


O
NE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:
SIREE RAAG, FIRST MEHL, FIRST HOUSE, ASHTAPADEES:​
I speak and chant His Praises, vibrating the instrument of my mind. The more I know Him, the more I vibrate it. The One, unto whom we vibrate and sing—how great is He, and where is His Place? Those who speak of Him and praise Him—they all continue speaking of Him with love. || 1 || O Baba, the Lord Allah is Inaccessible and Infinite. Sacred is His Name, and Sacred is His Place. He is the True Cherisher. || 1 || Pause || The extent of Your Command cannot be seen; no one knows how to write it. Even if a hundred poets met together, they could not describe even a tiny bit of it. No one has found Your Value; they all merely write what they have heard again and again. || 2 || The Pirs, the Prophets, the spiritual teachers, the faithful, the innocents and the martyrs, the Shaikhs, the mystics, the Qazis, the Mullahs and the Dervishes at His Door—they are blessed all the more as they continue reading their prayers in praise to Him. || 3 || He seeks no advice when He builds; He seeks no advice when He destroys. He seeks no advice while giving or taking. He alone knows His Creative Power; He Himself does all deeds. He beholds all in His Vision. He gives to those with whom He is pleased. || 4 || His Place and His Name are not known, no one knows how great is His Name. How great is that place where my Sovereign Lord dwells? No one can reach it; whom shall I go and ask? || 5 || One class of people does not like the other, when one has been made great. Greatness is only in His Great Hands; He gives to those with whom He is pleased. By the Hukam of His Command, He Himself regenerates, without a moment’s delay. || 6 || Everyone cries out, "More! More!", with the idea of receiving. How great should we call the Giver? His Gifts are beyond estimation. O Nanak, there is no deficiency; Your Storehouses are filled to overflowing, age after age.


Japp mann...

Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru
Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji ke Phateh
 

vaapaaraa

SPNer
Jul 15, 2004
196
5
Predip, you do not need to suggest to bijla singh or any other sikh, what islam is all about or not. We already have the True Gift from Guru ji.

I have been reading some of your posts, and you consistently promote islamic true views etc, we already know that every religion has the essence, and it is a path or road to God, we do not ask you to convert to sikhism.

If muslims want to gain some money by converting people, also they should know, that Allah is not pleased with them.

Read this post
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-gurus/14843-message-to-all.html
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0


ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ - Vedas and Quran
ਕਹਹੁ -I (Kabeer) say
ਮਤ- Religions
ਝੂਠੇ – false

Now the meanings are clear. Kabeer Ji says that “I openly say that religions (ways) preached by Vedas and Quran are false and false are those who do not understand this fact.” The word “Mat” does not mean “Do not” but it means Religions or different way to reach God. Guru Gobind Singh Ji Himself rejected the authority of these books by saying:


Vahe guru ji ka khalsa, vahe guru ji ki fateh

ARE birla singh brother

brother please try to understand what these lines are saying

its is saying that
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE, JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE

This means :: Dont(MAT) say(KAHO) that Ved(VED) and other scriptures(KUTEB) are false(JHUTHE), but false(JHUTHA) are the people who dont understand(VICHARE) it.

So it means, try to understand the saying of VEDAS and all other scriptures(which also include our gurubani)
rather than to merely believing on it, try to understand it.


Guru Fateh
 

Perdip

SPNer
Jan 8, 2007
35
0
Vahe guru ji ka khalsa, vahe guru ji ki fateh

ARE birla singh brother

brother please try to understand what these lines are saying

its is saying that
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE, JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE

This means :: Dont(MAT) say(KAHO) that Ved(VED) and other scriptures(KUTEB) are false(JHUTHE), but false(JHUTHA) are the people who dont understand(VICHARE) it.

So it means, try to understand the saying of VEDAS and all other scriptures(which also include our gurubani)
rather than to merely believing on it, try to understand it.

Guru Fateh
Well done Sahil. I'm an idiot and may not know what I read means but God explains things in my heart after I have read. Lets all do one thing... pray for forgiveness, understanding and 'Sehi pyare mehl jinha milya twadah naam chet aave'

JO BOLE SO NIHAL.... SAAAAAAAAAAT SRI AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA VAHEGURU JI KE PHATEH

God help, I'm late for work again...
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 4, 2005
4,502
2,742
40
INDIA
Sat Sri Akaal Ji KDS

I will not tell you what is a good Muslim. SGGS Ji tells you what a good Muslim is...

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will.

SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God’s Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.
dear perdip

it is interesting that you have quoted sggs for defination of good muslim
but as bijla singh ji pointed out that good muslim according to sggs is not not good muslim according to sggs

let me show you something from your quran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al-Baqara (The Cow) (Arabic) - Recite

2:183 O ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that ye may (learn) self-restraint,-

Al-Baqara (The Cow) (Arabic) - Recite

2:184 (Fasting) for a fixed number of days; but if any of you is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed number (Should be made up) from days later. For those who can do it (With hardship), is a ransom, the feeding of one that is indigent. But he that will give more, of his own free will,- it is better for him. And it is better for you that ye fast, if ye only knew.

Al-Baqara (The Cow) (Arabic) - Recite

2:185 Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

Al-Baqara (The Cow) (Arabic) - Recite

2:187 Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah. Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

Al-Baqara (The Cow) (Arabic) - Recite

2:196 And complete the Hajj or 'umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the 'umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment.
so you see fasting,hajj,animal sacrifice are prescribed in quran incase you have some other interpretation of the above verses.guru nanak refuted all theses things.
IslamiCity.com - Fasting in the Quran

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so you see a good muslim according to quran beleives in hajj,animal sacrifice
fasting while guru granth sahib criticises all these things so a good muslim according to quran is cannot be a good muslim according to sggs

as far as similarities are concerned the only similarity between sikhism and islam is that we all worship one god which some other religions also do
there are many other disimilarities between islam and sikhism.let me show you them which was pointed out one of the fellow spn member.
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japjisahib04
SPN Sewadaar
Enrollment No. 971



Location: kuwait
Age: 56

Re: Guru Nanak, a 'false' Prophet ??
Though Muslims and Sikh religions shares belief in One Reality and are very much close to each other in many fundamentals like condemning of casteism, idol worship, but there is difference in other basic resolutions.
i) Sikh believe in reincarnation and deeds whereas in Islam believe only one birth & death. Gurmat firmly believe either in merger into God by virtuous deeds or into re-incarnation thus didn’t agree with the theory of Islam that there is only one chance, there is only one way, and we are judged according to it and re-incarnation theory is absurd. A human can only exit the web of karma by meditating on Gurmat Naam and immersing the self into Akaal. Gurbani cautions,“ies pauri tai jo nar chukai so aaye jaey dukh paeda - that human whosoever does not live a truthful life and miss the opportunity of being human suffers in the form of re-incarnation.” - Guru Granth ang.1075.15. As a mother is compassionate so is God. With thousands of mistakes, the mother though sometimes gets frustrated, but never stops loving the child. It is God who put that compassionate nature into the mother. How can we say God is not compassionate at all? The human will make thousands of mistakes in their life, no matter how holy they are, but God will always love them, help them, and be compassionate towards them. He gives them thousands of chances and these chances, which come in many forms, are called re-incarnation.
ii) Muslims believe in absolute God who resides in the Seventh world whereas Sikh believe in God who Himself is absolute, self-governing and is within all of us but cannot be contained in a certain place. Verses of Gurbani says, “nanak ka patshah dessai jaahra - Satguru Nanak’s God is right in His creation.” - Guru Granth ang.397.7. In addition Guru Nanak says listen O, people “nanak kahat suno rai logha sant rasan to baseeho - Waheguru lives on the tongue of the Saint (who have tamed their mind through sabd) a living person (jiwan mukta).” - Guru Granth ang.700.11.
iii) Muslims believe creation of world in six days (though time is subjective) and end on Roze-qiamat whereas Sikh view the universe as an act of instant creation - a spontaneous manifestation of the unattributed Primal God- and its dissolution. It also says no one knows how many times it has come into existence and how many times it has evaporated in flick of an eye blink. Gurbani tells us like this, “khin maithaph uthapda - in an instant, He establishes and disestablishes.” - Guru Granth ang.706.3. Thus it supports evolution theory as per science. It further declares it is a divine sport and “whenever it pleases Him He created the Universe and as He desires, He absorbs it back into Himself.” - Guru Granth ang.292.8. Besides this, Gurbani further says, “kaei baar pasreo pasaar - Many times He has expanded universal expansion, yet each time at the end (and before) abides the Sole Supreme Being.” - Guru Granth ang.276.13.
iv) Muslims yearn for Heaven whereas Sikh believe to merge back into God from whom we were separated - “As the waves of water merge again with the water, so does one light merge again into the Light.” - Guru Granth ang.102.7.
v) Both faiths recognize the Oneness of God and regard it as human duty to follow what they describe as the Hukam, the Divine Will. However, they differ on the content of this hukm. For Muslims,it can be derived from the Holy Koran, the hadith of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him), the consensus of the religious scholars (ijma) and argument by analogy (ijtihad).The kafiris the rebel, the unbeliever, who denies this hukm.For Sikhs, the hukm is unspeakable: "hukm na ka-ha ja-ye". It can only be realized when lived. Therefore, the emphasis is on personal experience rather than social order. God's laws and truths are written in every human heart,
they are inscribed in the very being of our nature,articulated in
the body, mind and soul.
vi) Muslims believe in fourteen worlds whereas Sikhism in millions of worlds and nether worlds. Gurbani says, “kot brahmand ko thakhur soami - He is God and Master of millions of universe.” - Guru Granth ang.612.5.
vi) Muslims embrace Shari’at whereas Sikh believes in Maryada, His command strictly based on gurbani.
vii) Muslim believe Fasting, Jihad & ‘Sunat’ is their duty (which is not reflected in Quran whereas in Sikhism there is nothing like that but there are five ‘kakaar’ (Kaysh (long hair) ‘Stamp of Guru that you are a Sikh - a symbol of spirituality’, Kanga (comb) ‘a symbol of orderliness and cleanliness’ and to keep the hair. The uncut hair signified traditional ascetic renunciation but it was tamed by the comb which did not allow it to become matted thus symbolizing continued participation in the world; Kachehra (underwear) ‘signifies self control and restraint, to be jati and sati’, Kada (a steel bracelet) ‘to remind to cultivate in himself the awareness of immorality thus not to indulge in any wickedness’ & an iron bracelet that remind me that I am day and night in my Guru's bondage, superstition and to denote the universality of God, and Kirpan (sword) a symbol of power and dignity. It is an instrument of defense and protecting the weak. These ‘kakaar’ are used as article of faith for baptisms that are very much reflected in Guru Granth Sahib in symbolic language. It will be worth mentioning here that wearing of the kakaars is a symbolic acceptance of Guru Sahib's love and way of life. It's an acknowledgement of putting into practice one aspect of the maryada (code of conduct) handed down by the Guru. People however question that if the essence of religion is to love God, then why keep hair. Well if you love someone, and he gives a gift, what do you do with it? Throw it out of the window right in front of him and still say I Love you? Crush it under your feet and still say I love you.
viii) Further, when the foundation of any label is based on discrimination how could its essence merge us with truth - the Akal Purakh who is without discrimination (like sunnat cannot be performed on women and Janeu was not allowed to be worn by shudra lower caste.). Five kakar are for every one.
ix) In addition, as Gurbani tells us, if circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman? She is the other half of a man’s body, and she does not leave him, so he remains a Hindu. Thus if Akal Purakh wished one to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself.” - Guru Granth ang.477.17. These values stress that the real religion for all mankind is one. In this way you shall be a true Hindu and Muslim. Generally typical answer for circumcision is given to be cleanliness. Does it mean Akal Purakh was imperfect and prophet Mohammad had to correct. Impossible - Mohammad was a Akal Purakh lover he never could have meant that “NEVER”. He kept saying that I am an imperfect one...and Akal Purakh (Allah) is great. Oh Akal Purakh YOU are GREAT! So how could he perfect the perfection of Akal Purakh? Even in Anjeel or new Testament (book revered by Islam) Jesus talks of circumsention of mind that matter. Sikhe is not hereditary - it has to be earned by each and every person. Our gurus were never insecured and thus never intended for babies to be forced to chhak amrit. This is the beauty behind Sikh revealed baani. Amrit is not a ritual (like circumcision/baptism/janeu etc.) but a serious commitment to a particular life style and ONLY an ADULT can make that CHOICE rationally made voluntarily. It is a basic tenets and counter measure in self-defense to the path of realization committed to the tenets of their faith. And the PERSON goes to seek Amrit in complete submission. Therefore, having Amrit does require some outer inspection and inner inspection of the person. INCREASING the numbers of amritdharees by roping in helpless babies when they cannot make a choice is WRONG in Gurmat what to talk of genocides in case of unwillingness to accept their philosophy. How could one become a good soldier simply by wearing the uniform? No. First of all the army spirit has to be infused in. Then only one feels they have a goal and point of being here. Gurbani tells us ‘Truth is high, but higher still is truthful living’. Further the spread of Sikhi was never dependent on "interpretation of Gurbani". Sikhi spread through the example of those who practiced it -- who lived it, who walked the path. It was always the EXAMPLE of a Sikh, which inspired others to join the fold. That's how the number of Sikhs kept on increasing even when Governor of Lahore had declared a price on the head of a Sikh -- because the exemplary character of Sikhs inspired others onto the Guru's path, even when doing so meant to be on the run from the government of the day. By taking Amrit from Panj Pyaras Guru Gobind Singh ji put us on the same pedestal as he was on. He lowered himself in order to raise us up. WOW. What a Friend!!
viii) Further circumcision is connected to SEXUAL DESIRE..but a physical act doesnt control the MIND..ALL DESIRES are in fact in the MIND...MODESTY comes from the MIND - not EXTERNAL. IF the MIND is the DEVILS WORKSHOP, and the person is determined to let his desires get the better of him..no amount of "circumcision" ( even Total Bobbit ) is going to make him sleep quietly.
ix) Islam believe to offer sacrifice of animal while reading holy hymn through the process of ‘halal’ with painful death (In old testament when Abraham (Abram at that time) sacrifices his child at that time his God tells him that kill animal by draining blood out of it as blood is life. Again Moses was also instructed on it. Islam does believe in Halal as Jews. Gurmat disagree that life is in blood and not in flesh. We believe God to be everywhere and not such discrimination based on matter, which is decay able. As God is Same in flesh as in blood so why shed blood) whereas Sikhism believes holy hymns from Guru Granth Sahib or any holy book are to glorify and please God, lead virtuous life and not to recite to kill a frightened and helpless animal. It is inconceivable that the Guru had any such bias, for the validity of other religions is freely accepted in Sikh thought. The Guru had noticed what he considered shortcomings in other faiths, but he seems to suggest that trans-valuation of values is the only right possible answer to the existence of such problems. Thus one thing is very clear, according to Sikh thought, if we slaughter an animal for eating and recite prayers along with it, that won't save us from our sin or do the animal any favor. In addition Sikhism does not believe to slaughter animal in the name of sacrifice but for survival and that too in case of crisis and not as an addiction and that too with ‘Jhatka’ (one stroke) and not ‘Halal’. I personally do not believe in the unnecessary killing of animals to satisfy our desires, when there are plenty of other resources available for our survival. It may be stated that eating or not eating meat has a religious sanction in all major faiths; for example, Kosher is allowed for Jews, Halal for Muslims, Bali for Hindus (killed in the name of Goddess). Secondly, some religions prohibit meat of certain animals; pork is prohibited for Muslims and Jews, and beef for Hindus. Some prohibit eating meat, or a particular kind of meat, on some days. Sikh faith is unique in not prescribing any such condition for eating meat, if it is needed to meet the hunger of a Sikh. Besides Gurbani suggests three golden rules for healthy life which are scientifically sound, “do not eat or get addicted to that is not pleasing to the body, that gives pain to the body or eat or drink that produce evil in the mind.” - Guru Granth ang.16.14. Addiction, not only to meat, but even to `things' of daily use (spouse, wealth, affluent life, etc.), is prohibited. Therefore the beauty is that the ultimate decision is left to our own individual common sense or what suits us best. In addition a logical question arises that Halal, Kosher or Brahminical rituals associated with food all claim to "purify" food. What does it signify? That man has the power to "purify" what God created. In other words, man can "improve" upon God.
x) Unlike interpretation of Islam Sikhs are forbidden to believe that some days or months are auspicious. When you love and remember God, Gurmat says, it is a good day for you, when you ignore Him it is a bad day.
xi) Unlike Sikhs who in their daily general and private prayer wish, “Nanak Naam chardhee kala. Terey bhanney Sarbatt da bhalla”, - welfare for the whole humanity irrespective of their religion, Muslims only say, “May peace be upon all Muslim brothers and sisters and may God guide to all Non-Muslim.
xii) Muslim believe if we exercise good conduct in this world, we can watch dances of nymphs in the heaven, over here if we do not consume wine, we will get ‘Somras’ in heaven, over here if we donate little, over there we get palaces studded with pearls and diamonds. If you convert someone to your faith you get so and so award (A great Muslim poet and theologist Dr. Mohammand Iqbal lashed out and said, “bahishto houron ghilma evjai taiet mai na manugha eini bbaataon sai vaez jeif emon hota hai - O preacher you have weaken my belief, if by reading holy scripts, praying and good conduct, gets me in paradise where I am promised fairy girls, wine, wealth and property, then even the heaven you have made into a tradeable commodity), Sikh are not looking for converts like vultures fan the skies for dead meat whereas in Sikhism there is no trade-in.
xiii) Guru Nanak has offered no incentives such as nymphs, or houries or wealth etc. He says, “nanak kai ghar keval naam- Satguru Nanak’s home is filled with only Naam, the Name of God, His lotus feet - the cosmic hymn - the eternal bliss.” - Guru Granth ang.1136.16.
xiv) And as per Sikhism whosoever irrespective of any profession, caste status, religion have understood that “this human body conferred on us, is our only chance to merge back into God by reciting His glorious virtues from the core of heart, his toil is over to merge back into Him. This bliss is beyond wine, wealth and nymphs.” - Guru Granth ang.12.6, but those who don’t merged back, wander into cycle of reincarnation or suffer as per their deeds.
xv) Since He is TRUTH, which is eternal and forever, Sikhism believes in the eternal Living Guru Granth Sahib for guidance, whereas Islam believes after Mohammad there is no messenger of God. Muslims believe in entire sentence ‘kalmah’ (la elahaa eel alaah - Mohammad -u- rasul aalah’ whereas Sikh does not relate first half with second half which declares no prophet or apostle will come after Mohammad and no new faith will be born " - Our apostles were our Gurus and now our living Guru Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Inspite of this claim of Islam, a new faith Sikhism was born and which is a reality.
xvi) Islam believe Mohamad is the last messenger and Islam is last religion and no more (prophet)would come again for protecting people at this present age of crime and insecurity?? From this it follows that any new religion or even a new interpretation of religion must be authorized by the evidence already contained in this final and unique act; otherwise, it is a priori errant, a heresy. Whereas in Sikhism. In God’s infinite creation, there is no such thing as the last prophet or the last religion. Sikhism, on the other hand, teaches that the Truth of Religion is ab initio embedded in the heart of man and that its ultimate validity is to be discerned in human experience itself, and not in anything extraneous, though Sikhism admits that there have been, and shall be, extraordinarily gifted persons in whom the Truth of Religion has assumed unusual vividness and thus their revelations and teachings are of immense help to mankind, such as the ten Sikh Prophets, the Gurus.


xvii) So broad minded and transparent is Sikhism that unlike Islam who forbids non-muslim to their holy place Mecca Sikhism not only permits but have opened doors from all corners so that anyone can come and worship the way he likes. Our Guru tells us, jo sharan avai so kanth lavai whosoever irrespective of religion, caste, race or creed enter His sanctuary, is not only welcome but is hugged.
xviii) Muslim belief the body is made of four elements but gurbani tells us it is five elements and modern science has confirmed it is five and not four elements. (Earth, water, fire, air and fifth is soul, ether or spirit)
xix) Whereas in Islam music is not permitted even outside of Mosque and considered to be a hindrance to counting the 99 names of Allah and disturb single mindedness, Sikhism believes music along with the their tunes is the vehicle to sing holy hymn which are composed in poetry and musicality adopted and are sung inside the Gurudwara and believes it awakens deeper layers of human heart and consciousness. Keertan is an added bonus because it has a music in it. It encompasses what is otherwise indescribable and incommunicable. Divine wisdom is laced with sweet melodious fragrance by different tunes. This divine melody tunes the soul with Rhythm Eternal. The modern science supports this theory.
xx) Gurmat didn’t agree with the philosophy of resurrection that a judgment day will come when this soul will re-enter the body even after that body is turned into ashes. Gurbani tells us ‘Aapen khail aap kar dekhai, khail sakonchai tau nanak eikai - this all is the show of His sport and He Himself is watching this panorama. When He winds up His _expression then He alone will be left behind.” - Guru Granth ang.292.2. Though Gurmat accepts about winding up the show but conclude then He only will remain, and rejects the concept ‘that all human beings who have lived in the world since its inception will be restored to life and presented before Allah who will judge them on that day upon Absolute Justice. Obviously it is not true. However if you try to make sense in a way that the person who is not religious, his soul is dead in his body and body is graveyard for his soul, and if he follows religion his soul will resurrect in his body. It makes sense. Gurmat didn’t believe that soul remain standstill when as per the Will, it has continue process until it merges back with God. The Law cannot stop operating at any time. Even the most advance science has proved this point. So Gurmat distanced itself from this concept.
xxi) Gurbani tells us 'manas ki jaat eko pehchanobo' or ek noor tai sabh jagh utrai kon bhalai kon mandhai, whereas teaching of Islam tells us that other than Muslims all are {censored} or malech. Gurbani is about Love, not about hating ur fellow beings Gurbani is about Naam, and focusses ion worship of One True God, NOT some prophet.
xxii) In Islam there is fear of kayamat day (or Judgement Day) and or lobh of wine, houries and or pearl to do noble jobs, but sikh religion is one of the foremost religions that has recognised values of living. It is total surrender with humility to God (Milan di tadap or yearning for union with God and when there is tadap for union where is time for ego) all love which causes one to do noble deeds. IF the DELUSION of DEATH, LIFE, etc is STILL ALIVE in one's mind i.e. kayamat day, how can that person say He is FULLY accepting the Power and Will of ALLAH. On one hand it is said Islam is submission to the will of Allah.....and are still delusioned by Death and Life because of kayamat a fear of cruel harsh punishments in hell.
xxiii) In Islam women are not permitted to join the congregation whereas Gurbani in line with equal rights to women specially invites them with following versus, “Come my sisters and spiritual companion! Clasp me close in your embrace. Let us join together and tell stories of our All Powerful Spouse (God).” - Guru Granth ang.17.16.
xxiv) Islam believes praying on a particular day at Mecca fetches and is equal to hundred thousand prayers whereas Sikhism believes in level of love and devotion and not number of prayers which adds nothing but ego.
xxv) One of most important ritual of every Muslim is to visit and pray at Mecca once in a life whereas it is not mandatory for Sikhism to pray at their holiest shrine Amritsar. The Har-Mandir Sahib is the most inspirational and significant historical religious centre for Sikhs, but is not a mandatory place of pilgrimage or worship. All places where Sri Guru Granth Sahib is housed and its ‘prakash’ is compiled are considered equally holy for Sikhs and it is the holiest of holy. Gurbani tells us, "harminder eho shareer hai tis vich sachai da vasa - The body is the temple of Akal Purakh, within which He hath locked infinite light and until that truth is not revealed this body is but a heap of urine and filth, nothing more. Gurmat being all love did n't permit a feeling of complex or guilt for those who cannot afford to travel and waste time, money and torturing oneself. As per gurbani God resides in ourselves and we need not go out and get unnecessary tired and fall in the hands of banaras kai thug. Gurbani tells us, “teerath sabd beechar antar gian hai - Real sacred shrine of pilgrimage is enshrining spiritual wisdom within, and contemplation on the Word of the Shabad.” - Guru Granth ang.674.14.
xxvi) Muslim bury body and ‘nafis’ (desires) in grave whereas Sikh believe at the time of death soul leaves the body and wander in many incarnation or merged back into Him as per the deeds or His grace,
xxvii) Islam believe Adam and Eve were the first creation, whereas as per gurmat and Sikhism ‘Nobody knows.’ And in one’s spiritual development, this piece of information is of no consequence. …. All tall claims by some that they know as to who was the first human? is nothing but a concoction of fairy tales of empty boastings.xxviii) 1) Muslim believe in fasting that is why they consider Ramadhan a holy month and fast the whole month,, Guru Nanak says mission of mankind on Earth is to earn ‘Dharam’ by nurturing love, day and night from the core of heart while contemplating on His virtues and chanting His Name. How can a devotee by fasting, torturing, sufferings or suppressing appetite concentrate or devote to utter His Naam. Gurbani tells us, ‘bhukhai bhagat na keejai yeh mala apni leejai - with empty stomach no one can perform devotional worship.” - Guru Granth ang.656.13. Gurbani tells us, all these actions are the cause of deviation, thus it is only a hypocrisy. In relation to fasting Gurbani declared it this way, “Chodaih aan karai pakhand na oh suhaghan na o rand ] - one who fasts and discards food during purnmashi, karva choith, naratai, ramadhan, is practicing hypocrisy. He is like a rolling stone and is neither a happy soul-bride, nor a widow.” - Guru Granth ang.873.4. Besides it yields no bonus marks. It is not a mean to wash any sins, it is not a mean to fulfill any of your desires, and it is not a mean to please Akal Purakh or merge into Akal Purakh. We pose to abstain from food outwardly but from inside body suffers in pain and is disturbed with fire of desires. It is hypocrisy. If really eaten less, it stabilizes the agitation in mind. This is what Gurbani advises “Sleep little, and eat little; O learner Nanak, this is the essence of wisdom.” - Guru Granth ang.939.4. Thus Gursikhs are fasting everyday. This process described here does not overload the body and abuse the beautiful machinery/apparatus gifted to us FREE without any effort on our part. Gurbani thus advises instead earn the fruitful rewards by observing the fast of knowing your own self with a pledge not to speak lies at least that day. Gurbani proclaims, “sach varat santokh keerat gian dhayan isnan, deaya devta kheema japmaal tai manas pradhan - the most excellent are those who have truth as their fast, contentment as their sacred shrine of pilgrimage, spiritual wisdom and meditation as their cleansing bath, kindness as their deity, and forgiveness as their chanting beads.” - Guru Granth ang.1245.11.xxx) Whereas Sikhs are the only people in the world who have with them authenticitic Divine revelation with them in the language and words in which the same was received and written by their own prophet whereas qoran was not written by Prophet Mohamd as direct revelation but was written after his death by 2nd umar upon heresay.xxxi) As per Islam God said to Adam. ‘Do not eat of the apple’. That is, God was trying to say to Adam. Stop being inquisitive, you will bring problems upon yourself. And so original sin started for mankind. God simply wanted man to live by some rules it seems. Though people say all religions are same, now look at Gurbani. The guru says come and ‘seek’ but be ready to sacrifice yourself, your ego and your ideas. A complete contrast. The guru says jo to praem khaelan kaa chaao If you so yearn to explore bonding with the eternal drama (or, if you want to play this game of love with Me), sier dhhurr talee galee maeree aao step onto My Path with your mind and ego in your alms ( or, then step into my path with your head in hand).eith maarag pair dhhurreejai -When you place your feet on this Path, sir dheejai kaan n keejai submit your mind and forget all other ideas, theories etc, ( Give me your head, and do not pay attention to public opinion.

xxxii) Islam believe when Adam and Eve who were posted in Heaven by God, didn’t obey God’s command, they were sent to earth as a punishment whereas Gurbani propagate there is no physical place called Heaven and mankind is sent to Earth, in a part of His play, to earn ‘Dharma’ and day, night, air, water, seasons etc. are created for the convenience of mankind to enjoy and conveniently earn ‘Dharma’ which facilitate them to ‘swims across’ which means the end of transmigration and the attainment of poise and not a punishment. The soul keeps coming back in different bodies so it can perfect itself to get out of the cycle of birth and death. Because of the choices we make, we continue to suffer, when we listen to the inner voice to perfect ourselves, we can redeem our soul from the comings and goings.
xxxiii) Muslims strictly bury dead whereas Sikhism cremates but can bury too in case of crisis. Sikhism is a religion which is open and adaptable . No rigidities in us. No concept like time wrap.
xxxix) While Islam believe Satan crept into heaven, polluted the Book kept by God(!), which was written in Arabic, so people could understand that God is an Arab? The message is meant for Arabs? Thus everyone should learn Arabic, the sacred language? Gurbani observes that God is beyond language, the Guru Granth uses many languages to explain its message. Gurbani is God Itself, God the Unstruck Melody, Anhad Nad, calling you to unity. There is no question of God being polluted by any evil spirit.
xxxi) While Gurbani is revealed by the direct inspiration of God, Islamic concept
of God precludes communication between God and people or the angels.

Sahni Mohinder
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-philosophy/203-guru-nanak-a-false-prophet-9.html#post26950

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perdip ji i am really sorry to say that sikhism and islam are quite different
we don't even share basic theories.either you could be a good muslim(sikh)
according to sggs or a good muslim according.

also i want to say you blamed sikhs type me who spread hatred but reality is
it is your brothers that spread hatred
please read the follwing link
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14695-other-religions-on-sikhi-who-cares-2.html#post50236

so it is muslim that are on the mission to convert hindu sikh girls to islam.
and spreading hatred.if you really are liberal peace loving muslim who beleives in human brother hood then your first duty is to control your fanatic brothers and not blaming people of other religion for spreading hatred.
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 4, 2005
4,502
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INDIA
The thing is that, what ever is written in Quran is same as written is our SGGS
read my reply to perdip and then sa y are quran and guru granth sahib actually
similar.
Brother please I want to discuss the SGGS if u cn
hw close it is to our life
the things written in the SGGS cn be realised in life
this thing will clear us, what actual religion is..
so start if u cn
the basic message in guru granth sahib is naam japna ,wand chhakna,kirat karna but if you are want to go deep in the philosophy of sggs then
read the teeka of guru granth sahib available on the net you will be surprised to know
that many of the meaning of the shabads are entirely different
http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/

you can also read the english interpretation of japji sahib t on the foolewoing link

Feeling of pure thought in brain of center is wisdom of power of life.
also this topic is not about discussing sggs if you are want to discuss sggs
then start a new thread with clear questions.
 

kds1980

SPNer
Apr 4, 2005
4,502
2,742
40
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Vahe guru ji ka khalsa, vahe guru ji ki fateh

ARE birla singh brother

brother please try to understand what these lines are saying

its is saying that
ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥
VED KUTEB KAHO MAT JHUTHE, JHUTHA JO NA VICHARE

This means :: Dont(MAT) say(KAHO) that Ved(VED) and other scriptures(KUTEB) are false(JHUTHE), but false(JHUTHA) are the people who dont understand(VICHARE) it.

So it means, try to understand the saying of VEDAS and all other scriptures(which also include our gurubani)
rather than to merely believing on it, try to understand it.


Guru Fateh
sahil ji it is necessary to understand full shabad rather than reading just a single line.
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Author: Manvir Singh Khalsa
Date: 09-01-06 13:23

Vahiguroo Jee Ka Khalsa
Vahiguroo Jee Kee Fateh.

I would like to share with the Sangat what one young man from a Sikh background who was considering of converting to Islam said to me. Daas and few Gursikhs met up with the young veer jee who was thinking of converting to Islam due to pressures from his peer group and cousins (who had already converted).

He said he had been given a CD by his fundamentalist Muslim peers which had the FALLACIES of Sikhi on it. I asked him to put the CD in the computer and show me what was written. The Word document was basically a COPY AND PASTE job from The Sikhism Home Page about the basics of Sikhi(when it didn't even INSULT Sikhi or say anything NEGATIVE! I was SHOCKED and LAUGHED that they used the "COPY AND PASTE" as the fallacy! Rab Bhalla Kare. Even the boy was shocked and felt EMBARRASED that he thought he had a CD containing all the fallacies of Sikhi, when really he should have researched it and at least HAD A LOOK at it, instead of taking the fundamentalist people's word that Sikhi had been disproved as a true religion.

O Well! So the MAIN THING which I could find was that it was written that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee says that: "Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false" (Ang 1350).

I have heard this before from another young person influenced by missionary tactics.

Daas would like to share the reply to this point used, which is used to convince Sikhs that even Guru Granth Sahib jee says that the Quran is the "INFALLIBLE WORD of GOD".


REPLY:-
The first line of this Shabad has been taken OUT OF CONTEXT and being read alone, as a result of individuals pursuing their on AGENDAS. However, reading it in FULL CONTEXT in relation to the 'RAHAAO’ or CENTRAL IDEA verse of the Shabad and with the rest of the Shabad, it is clear that the Shabad is FAR from trying to justify or state the Quran is the true word of God. This is NOT EVEN COVERED! The point being covered is the HYPOCRISY of religions and so-called religious people. The CLAIM one thing in WRITING and do something DIFFERENT in PRACTICE of the religion, which is CONTRADICTORY. This is exposed, questioned and reflected upon in this Shabad through Bhagat Kabeer jee.

pRBwqI ] byd kqyb khhu mq JUTy, JUTw jo n ibcwrY ] jau sB mih eyku Kudwie khq hau, qau ikau murgI mwrY ]1] mulW, khhu inAwau KudweI ] qyry mn kw Brmu n jweI ]1] rhwau ] pkir jIau AwinAw, dyh ibnwsI, mwtI kau ibsimil kIAw ] joiq srUp Anwhq lwgI, khu hlwlu ikAw kIAw ]2] ikAw aujU pwku kIAw muhu DoieAw, ikAw msIiq isru lwieAw ] jau idl mih kptu invwj gujwrhu, ikAw hj kwbY jwieAw ]3] qUM nwpwku, pwku nhI sUiJAw, iqs kw mrmu n jwinAw ] kih kbIr iBsiq qy cUkw, dojk isau mnu mwinAw ]4]4] (pMnw 1350)

English Translation:-
Prabhaatee: (O Hindu and Muslim brothers!) do not say that (one another’s) religious texts of the Vedas or the Quran etc are false. Those who do not contemplate these religious texts are false. (O dear Mullah!) If you say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens (as a sacrifice before that Lord)? (What does He not pervade in the chicken? What is the meaning of killing the creation of the Lord and presenting it before Him?) ||1||

O Mullah tell me! You tell (others) about God's Justice, but the doubts of your own mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause||

O Mullah! You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay (of that soul) in the name of God. But O Mullah! That Lord who is the pure light of lights and you is Immortal, His Light is pervading everywhere, (He was also present in that chicken, which you sacrificed in the name of God), so tell me, what have you made worthy of sacrificing in the name of God? ||2||

O Mullah! If you read prayers when your heart is full of hypocrisy, then what good are these prayers? What good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? Why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque? And, what good is the pilgrimage to Kaab’ha? ||3||

O Mullah! You are impure from inside, you have not understood the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery. Says Kabeer - (You are stuck in this doubt that) you have missed out on paradise, and your mind is set on hell. ||4||4||
(Ang 1350)



Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Daas,
Manvir Singh


phorum - message board

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Dec 8, 2006
44
1
Peace and love to all. May God Bless and Guide you all. Salaam.
Perdip,

The Koran at Chapter 5, verse 35 number is quoted as saying;

“Believers, fear Allah and seek the way to approach him, striving hard, fighting Jihad with all your might in His Cause that you may be successful. As for the disbelievers, if they had everything on earth, two times over, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Doom, it would never be accepted of them. Theirs will be a painful torment. They will desire to get out of the fire, but they shall not be released from it. They shall have an everlasting torture.”

Do you accept this translation or otherwise what does this chapter mean?
 
Jan 30, 2005
77
1
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"Sahil" I have presented the meanings according to Gurbani grammar. Bhai Kahan Singh, Professor Sahib Singh and other scholars agree with the same meanings. Word "Mat" means Religions or Ways. It doesn't mean "Don't". If it did then Gurbani would be contradicting itself which it doesn't. It is not possible that Gurbani rejects vedas and quran at one place and accept their authority in other shabads. I have presented other quotes to further prove that Gurbani in fact rejects vedas and quran. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also used the same word in the same context. If you study vedas and quran you will know that both scriptures do not talk about Naam, and Seva. There is some truth in other religions but Sikhi is the only way to get salvation.
 

navroopsingh

SPNer
Nov 15, 2006
84
3
wooo there. now we're getting into fanatical muslim and christian mindset. All people should accept Jesus as their saviour or all must embrace Islam are such quotes you hear. Do you honestly think that no one obtained salvation before Sikhism was created? If so that would mean that for thousands of years, people were lost completely and that God did not send a prophet with the correct message until over 5000 years later? The guru's said that their are MANY paths and that no one should have to follow one. its as if saying that the yogi's and siddha's couldnt have achieved anything before Guru Nanak Dev Ji? If the guru's thought that Sikhism was the "only way to get salvation" they would have probably spread it like Islam!!!
 
Jan 30, 2005
77
1
40
I would like to see the reference from Gurbani that there are many paths. Gurbani says that only Naam obtained from Satguru will get you muktee. Guru Nanak Sahib has been giving muktee since Aad. I don't understand what "before Guru Nanak" means since Guru Sahib has been there forever. There is only one Satguru, Guru Nanak Sahib who has the power to give muktee. This mindset is totally different from Islam and Christianity. These religions condemn everyone to hell but Sikhi doesn't. Good deeds will help you and get you rewards for it but unless someone is a guruwala muktee will not be obtained.
 

navroopsingh

SPNer
Nov 15, 2006
84
3
pvVI ]pavarree ||Pauree:

bdPYlI gYbwnw Ksmu n jwxeI ]badhafailee gaibaanaa khasam n jaanee ||The foolish demon, who does evil deeds, does not know his Lord and Master.
so khIAY dyvwnw Awpu n pCwxeI ]so keheeai dhaevaanaa aap n pashhaanee ||Call him a mad-man, if he does not understand himself.

klih burI sMswir vwdy KpIAY ]
kalehi buree sa(n)saar vaadhae khapeeai ||
The strife of this world is evil; these struggles are consuming it.

ivxu nwvY vykwir Brmy pcIAY ]
vin naavai vaekaar bharamae pacheeai ||
Without the Lord's Name, life is worthless. Through doubt, the people are being destroyed.

rwh dovY ieku jwxY soeI isJsI ]
raah dhovai eik jaanai soee sijhasee ||
One who recognizes that all spiritual paths lead to the One shall be emancipated.

kuPr goA kuPrwxY pieAw dJsI ]
kufar goa kufaraanai paeiaa dhajhasee ||
One who speaks lies shall fall into hell and burn.

sB dunIAw subhwnu sic smweIAY ]
sabh dhuneeaa subehaan sach samaaeeai ||
In all the world, the most blessed and sanctified are those who remain absorbed in Truth.

isJY dir dIvwin Awpu gvweIAY ]9]
sijhai dhar dheevaan aap gavaaeeai ||9||
One who eliminates selfishness and conceit is redeemed in the Court of the Lord. ||9||


It seems that that would help my argument but i dont need to tell you that it took a long time of searching through sikhitothemax to find such one quote. The rest spoke of single paths and some were like the following.

rwgu dyvgMDwrI mhlw 5 Gru 5raag dhaevaga(n)dhhaaree mehalaa 5 ghar 5Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fifth Mehla, Fifth House:

<> siqgur pRswid ]
ik oa(n)kaar sathigur prasaadh ||One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

mY pyiKE rI aUcw mohnu sB qy aUcw ]mai paekhiou ree oochaa mohan sabh thae oochaa ||I have seen the Lord to be on high; the Fascinating Lord is the highest of all.

Awn n smsir koaU lwgY FUiF rhy hm mUcw ]1] rhwau ]aan n samasar kooo laagai dtoodt rehae ham moochaa ||1|| rehaao ||No one else is equal to Him - I have made the most extensive search on this. ||1||Pause||

bhu byAMqu Aiq bfo gwhro Qwh nhI AghUcw ]bahu baea(n)th ath baddo gaaharo thhaah nehee agehoochaa ||Utterly infinite, exceedingly great, deep and unfathomable - He is lofty, beyond reach.

qoil n qulIAY moil n mulIAY kq pweIAY mn rUcw ]1]thol n thuleeai mol n muleeai kath paaeeai man roochaa ||1||His weight cannot be weighed, His value cannot be estimated. How can the Enticer of the mind be obtained? ||1||

Koj AsMKw Aink qpMQw ibnu gur nhI phUcw ]khoj asa(n)khaa anik thapa(n)thhaa bin gur nehee pehoochaa ||Millions search for Him, on various paths, but without the Guru, none find Him.

khu nwnk ikrpw krI Twkur imil swDU rs BUMcw ]2]1]32]kahu naanak kirapaa karee t(h)aakur mil saadhhoo ras bhoo(n)chaa ||2||1||32||Says Nanak, the Lord Master has become Merciful. Meeting the Holy Saint, I drink in the sublime essence. ||2||1||32||


Im truly sorry Bijla but I didn't understand a single word of your message.

Btw perdip, what did u mean by this advocation sign?:advocate:
 
Nov 29, 2006
119
0
Guru Fateh

Ok brother u urself see the meaning of these lines

Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

I will put some more quotes in future also

"Sahil" I have presented the meanings according to Gurbani grammar. Bhai Kahan Singh, Professor Sahib Singh and other scholars agree with the same meanings. Word "Mat" means Religions or Ways. It doesn't mean "Don't". If it did then Gurbani would be contradicting itself which it doesn't. It is not possible that Gurbani rejects vedas and quran at one place and accept their authority in other shabads. I have presented other quotes to further prove that Gurbani in fact rejects vedas and quran. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also used the same word in the same context. If you study vedas and quran you will know that both scriptures do not talk about Naam, and Seva. There is some truth in other religions but Sikhi is the only way to get salvation.
 

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Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

By the 5th Guru Arjan Dev, the shabad is on Ang 616 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa.

ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Soraṯẖ mėhlā 5.
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl...

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