Controversial Is Everything Under Hukam Of The Akaal Purakh ? Or Are These Just Laws Of Nature ?

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Logical Sikh, Oct 5, 2018.

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  1. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    IF YES, Then -

    1. then 1984 sikh riot was also according to his hukam. ?

    2. Rapes of Girls is also his hukam. ?

    3. Declining of Sikh religion is also his Hukam. ?

    4. Terrorist attacks part of his hukam ?
     
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  3. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    in my view, absolutely no, otherwise why would we have the terms manmukh and gurmukh? there is a choice, it is up to us to align ourselves with the choice of truth, or the choice of untruth, for the record, the choice of untruth is always more fun, in the short term anyway
     
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  4. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur Writer SPNer Supporter

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    These are the hardest questions that scholars and saints have been grappling with for millennia. Sikhs have been doing the same from the beginning of Sikhi, I suppose, except maybe for the Gurus themselves who do know the answer.

    For my own sanity, I must believe that all is Hukam of Waheguru. My only explanation of these evils is that we are very small creatures of severely limited vision; perhaps if we could see the Grand Design as a whole and examine how it all fits together, we could comprehend it.

    I know from experience that we can grow strong from painful occurrences in our lives. As Nietzsche said, "What does not kill me makes me stronger.."[Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich stärker.] (I give the original German because this sentence is usually mistranslated. )

    I know that's a lousy answer, but it's the best I can do.
     
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  5. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    That's called perspective.

    And that's what were meant to learn. To see God in everything.

    What we sow is what we reap. Some can't accept it, but it's the Truth.

    I've been through hell and back, and even I accept that's its all been him.

    Instead of hurting others I have learned to be kind and compassionate towards others, instead of being arrogant, I've learned to put my head down on the floor and to accept that it's all Him, good and bad, wealth and poverty, light and dark, success and failure.

    Ive also learned from the fools mistakes. Fools are there to show us what we shouldn't be.
     
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  6. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    Then how do we explain Gurmukh and Mankmukh ?

    lets talk abt it, maybe it will help me understand it better........
     
  7. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    my understanding is that a Gurmukh aligns themselves with the SGGS, whereas a Manmukh aligns themselves with whatever gives pleasure,

    from what I can conclude from the SGGS, the choice is ours,
     
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  8. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    if the choice is ours then how can THIS be Hukam ?
     
  9. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    first you have to explain your understanding of Hukam, do you believe it is like fate? or is it that everything is preplanned by God?
     
  10. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    As of my current Understanding, I believe in :-
    ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਸਚੈ ਕੀ ਹੈ ਕੋਠੜੀ ਸਚੇ ਕਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਵਾਸੁ,
    My understanding is This House ( World ) is made by God..... But now whoever makes a house..... the owner..... He also MAkes some rules of the house that you need to follow..... These rules.... these laws of nature..... I believe That these are the hukam. THe Order. The Rules made by God after making this house ........

    This is my current understanding.... Open for discussions.
     
  11. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    and no i do not believe that everything is pre-planned.
     
  12. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Writer SPNer

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    Ur using too much logic.

    You get put on earth. You have two choices, be good or be an a-hole.

    You choose to be an a-hole. Every bad deed u commit will need to be repaid in karma.

    You pay your debts and collect your dues.

    As u sow, so you reap.
     
  13. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    The only thing within our own control are our own voluntary thoughts and actions (and even that is a struggle for most people).

    Absolutely everything else is outside of our control and in the realm of Hukam.
     
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  14. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    do you mean absolute things like gravity, or the order of the of the world?
     
  15. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur Writer SPNer Supporter

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    We rarely, if ever, have any control over the situations we find ourselves in; our control exists only in our own thoughts, actions, and most importantly, attitude. Viktor Frankl wrote extensively on this. He wasn't Sikh, but he was an Auschwitz survivor, so he knew a lot about this.
    His conclusion is that while we often cannot control our surroundings, we can - and must if we are human beings, control our inner reactions to them. His memoir, Man's Search For Meaning is available as a free ebook. It is a short book; including Prefaces, Forwards, and the like, it is 69 pages long. at http://www.fablar.in/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Mans_Search_for_Meaning.78114942.pdf
     
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  16. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    Pay attention, you're saying the same thing that i said XD.
    If " As u sow, So you reap" is true" that means God doesn't interfere in what we do and think and what will happen in our future ,right ? cuz " As u sow, So you reap"
     
  17. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    what is " Everything else" that you're talking here ?
     
  18. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    SO Now My question is, What is PRE-PLANNED and what is NOT ?
     
  19. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    @Logical Sikh the "everything else" would be everything that is not your own voluntary thoughts and actions. That includes other people's actions and opinions, your body getting sick, things that have happened in the past, the weather, disasters, your genetics, etc.

    For the question about what is pre-planned and what is not, there was some discussion a couple of months ago you might find interesting: Why Is There Suffering And Chaos In This World?
     
  20. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    Thankyou for sharing that post,
    Well that Discussion just confirms to me that You Cannot Make this world a better place if you leave ANYTHING to GOD.
     
  21. Logical Sikh

    Logical Sikh Writer SPNer

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    I mean Order of the world........
     

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