Is Dasam Granth Guru Ji's Bani?

WGJKKWGJKF

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Jan 16, 2006
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WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Ive been wondering for about months, since i discovered there was even a Granth called Dasam Granth if it is actually Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani.

Please forgive me if already discussed.

I would like to know the reasons in support of it being Guru Ji's bani and reasons for it not to be. This is so that i can put my mind to rest so i can reach a conclusion for myself if it is or not... coz at the moment i dont know nothing much about it which means i cant come 2 a conclusion for myself.

Thanks in advance.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
 

Jass Singh

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Nov 2, 2005
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http://www.sikhpoint.com/religion/resources/dasamgranth.htm

You can read the reasoning & evidence in the above link but the conclusion by the late S. Daljeet Singh says:

“…such contents of the Dasam Granth as suggest worship of gods, goddesses and Avtars, are opposed to the doctrines of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and the Gurus. These are also opposed to the unanimously accepted bani of Guru Gobind Singh, quoted above. By no stretch of reason can it be suggested that those writings are consonant with the bani and doctrines of Guru Granth Sahib… Further, we find that there is not a shred of historical evidence to suggest that the Guru at any time approved of it… Further, we find that there is not a shred of historical evidence to suggest that the Guru at any time approved of it…"
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
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and you have got to "READ" it yourself...to get enough evidence to make a calculated deciision. There are A-Z people opposed. (mainly academicians, scholars, linguists, etc MYSELF included - THREE Takhats. Akal Takhat, Damdama Sahib and Keshgarrh Sahib, SGPC).... .and A-Z people in FAVOUR (Sants baabas derawallahs Taksalis, Akhand Kirtani jathas, Nihungs..etc - Two takhats - Patna sahib and Hazoor sahib - NON-SGPC)

You cannot depend on other peoples opinions... read the "banis"..at least some like Tria Chitras ( www.sridasamgranth.org for the real original unedited version - NOT READ in PUBLIC due to ***** reason even at hazoor sahib and patna sahib )...the Krishan Avatars, the Chandi vaars, etc etc

Then read Jaap sahib, Akaal Ustat, Swaiyahs tavparsaad...

Compare the TWO SECTIONS..and DECIDE which is which.. No need to get emotional or sentimental..GURBANI...is "ALL THAT FITS HAND IN GLOVE with GURBANI inside the GURU GRANTH JI" Stamped by the SEAL of GURU JI Himself.........if it contradicts.....cannot be read in public with women present..etc etc then its NOT Gurbani...especially IF not stamped by any GURU as His composition.

Jarnail Singh Gyani
 

Sher_Singh

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Nov 10, 2004
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I have read Jaap Sahib, Akaal Ustat, Chaubis Avtar, Bachitar Natak, Shastar Naam Mala and Zafarnamah and I believe these are the writings from the Guru.
I have not yet read the chapter on 'whiles of women' and i have not completed the reading of Rudra Avtar so i can not say about these at this time.

Sri Akaal Sahai
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Das was disccusing this thing on other forum and someone tagged das as agents of RSS.

Well das is doing owrk on Kala Afghan Sahib's writng and therefore shuned work on the writng of Amabala Sahib.

Both oppose Dasham Granth and former says all is non sense.ie not by Guru.

Das can say that Dashan Granth is comilation of perhaps Three books and loose peotray in appendix.

It depends more on our understading Gurmat to say that if it as per Gurmat or not.

Best thing here das wants to say that if we start to edit we get the following result that people start to question Guru Granth Sahib Ji themselves and start to edit Gurbani there like Bhatt Swayyes and soon Bhagat Bani.

See the reply Kala Afghan Sahib wrote to oppose such Attempts.

http://www.sikhmarg.com/2006/0122-bhatt-bani.html

So if we use the similar logic we can get the interpetation of Dasham Granth as per Gurmat like Prof Sahib Singh Ji did for Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

So far best thing being done is by DR Jodh Singh yet it further needs to explanied.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Das wanted to put another point to our Respected Gyani Sahib Ji,

There is a strong gruop of AKJ brethern who do not belive in various parts of Dasham Granth Ji and they are more in Canada.

Das can also say that all the concerns raised by anti Dasham Granth people are not uncalled for.

If we see that the way anti Sikh hindutva people misuse the Bani of Tenth Master,then we can say that any innocnet Sikh can esyly misguided.And by going only By Guru Granth Sahib Ji is also OK.

Yet if we see the Fareed Koti Teeka of the same then many people did tried and are trying to remove so called inperpolated verses from Guru Granth Sahib JI(excluding Raagmala).

But often people who try to study Dasham Granth tend to rely upon Punjabi version by Pandit Narayan Singh,which das can say is similar to Fareedkoti Teeka of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Das does not wants to equate the Two holy scriptures as Adi Granth is always first so forgive das for comaparision.But we need to be ourself well aware of Braj,Bhojpuri and Farsi to understand the Dasham Granth.

Das here wants to say another thing that due to more of Hindi(Sadhukharhi and Bhojpuri) in Guru Granth Sahib Ji,Sikhs could be knowing the same or similar hindi language at the time of Guru but Pahri hindus and local Muslims may not understand that.

So to communitacte with Sikhs without outsiders should know Gurus could have used non local lnaguage which Guru and Sikhs did know.

Like say in Congo Indian Army used Hindi or say Haryanivi accsent.

Like Prophet Mohmud(PBUH),Our Guru was also nation builder.And like Muslim Sufis who did use both Hindu Mythology and women's(which laters is shown as one with God ie from Ishaq Mazazi to Ishap Haqiqi) discription to preach Islam we can nenver say that they were agents of RSS or Brhimins and did anti Islamic things.

We need to read some such works of sufis in India before blaming the Brahminical forces.

But yes those forces do try to misinterpret Sufis but thier many of thier childerns in Hindi area ultimatly get converted to Islam.
 

Amarpal

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Jun 11, 2004
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Dear Khalsa Ji,

First we should define what is Bani. In the strict sense of the word, any thing that is spoken is Bani.

In the context of Sikhi, what is autheneticated by Guru Sahibs is Gurbani. THis is documented in the text of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.

What is called Dasam Granth was not compliled and put together after Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji left this world. It is said that the text of it existed in various forms during the time of Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. It is also true that Guru Gobind Singh Ji was proficient in many languages. He used to write poetry. He also had poets with him who put many of the epical text of the land Gurmukhi so that the Sikhs too can read it and know what it is. Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked we Sikhs to follow Siri Guru Granth sahib as our Guru and we are doing so. Such great was his authority, yet he did not ask the Sikhs to follow Dasam Granth as the divine scripture. If he wanted he could have included it in Siri Guru Granth Sahib, he had this authority, yet he did not do so. Consequently, the individuals or group of individuals too cannot make it the scripture for the Sikhs. It is excellent literature in Gurmukhi.

I have read it, though part of it appears to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the entire composition is not by him. You take make revered scripture of our land are attibuted to Ved Vyas. As explained by the learned religious pandits of ramakrishna Math in their publication, ved Vyas was a post ant not an individual. Ved means knowledge and Vyas means diameter. The persons whose spiritual knowledge and wisdom (veda) was large enough (vyas i.e. diameter) to encompass all the vedas was recongised as such and assigned the task of compilation of ancient scripture of the land. As it wa a post and not an individuals Vedvyas we find has compiled scripture over centuries, yet the name remains the same. It is, probably, in the same spirit, the text of what is known as Dasam Granth was compiled.

This way, just because it is attributed to Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, it does not mean that the entire text is written by him.

The text of Dasam Granth, at many places is not in agreement with what is said in Siri Guru Granth Sahib. For this reason I do not consider it as Gurubani. I fully agree with the views expressed by Dr Surinder Singh Kohli, in his translation of Dasam Granth. Those who have interest can read this translation.

In conclusion, I say that Dasam granth is a very good literature of Gurmukhi. It is not Gurbani in the sense of Siri Guru Granth Sahib.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Das just wants to say a thing here that, yes! in Dasham Granth there are some portions which do touch purly Meeri or political concepts and are bit less apparntly in spritualty(Peeri).

and in nihungs they have three scrptures installed.But das is anyway oppose to taking Vak or bowing to any other scripture but Guru Granth Sahib Ji but in mind Akal only.

Das so far could not find any contradiction in Guru Granth Sahib for anything in universe.

Das got the address of Kohli Sahib from here

http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=dasam_granth&action=index
 

jagamansingh

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Feb 4, 2006
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Before getting into debate let me make it clear that Dasham Granth Sahib was compiled by Bhai Mani Singh ji(Saheed, we chant in ardass 'Band Band Kataye') who was not only brahm gyani sikh but also childhood buddy of Dashm Pita and hav spend his entire life under guidence of guru sahib.And that pious soul cannot be wrong.
Now about the debate.
firstly we should clearly differenciate between gurumukh and manmukh. If true sikh like mani singh ji a close associate of guru sahib claims it to be gurujis compositions and we 300 years after are putting disclaimers. absolutely manmukhi ! as our mind does not accepts?
Secondly, we should try to understand that Guruji was a saint, a complete saint by acts and thoughts.he was complete manifest appearence of guru grainth sahib. He never did nindaya of any one even of Aungjeb (he praises his bravery in bachitar natak), harichand etc. he had only praised the deeds of krishna, rama, durga, chandi and others who ever has raised agaist the evil, whats wrong in that? And every time he says that he is das of Akal no co question of devi puja arrives. its devi mahima but not puja and who ever is entitled for that he had given it. again trait of a true saint.
Thirdly, Guruji should be seen as a greatest of all poets and as a GURU. When he is guru he writes Jaap Sahib, sudha savvaiye, tv prasad savvaiye etc and when he is a poet he composes bachitar natak, chandi ki vaar, krishna avtaar, and when he is a teacher he teaches his sikhs behaviours that they should practice and one they should avoid, hikkayaits.
Fourthly section of triya chritra which is termed as most controversial ond often disclaimer is made as dasnh granth sahib is not the bani of guruji. Yes when this section is read by we people, who are entangled in kam vaasna, yet not liberated of it, not understanding 'SANSAAR SAMUNDE' and 'IMPACT OF MAYA' or 'BHAVSAGAR', often make mistake of understanding it, Like often people do in interpritting 'Kujhraho temples'. Yes guruji has presented the kama, but remember it is presented by perfect saint (Uch da peer, peer-i-hind as guruji is represented) hence its purpose and sence changes. it is only to make his sikhs understand, the human manifestation of kama, when kama rides a man how he beheaves, how he forgets his real duties and get engaged in bodily and other pleasures and ends up as a looser. And we are kami purush, and thus our analysis will certain take it through the point of sensuality.
we should be thankful to guru sahib that a true saint had written over this issue. as practically what have made people most deviant through out of the history of world is this kama and guruji had very boldly taught his sikh how kama look when it takes human form.
So our collective mental intellenge even cannot match a single inch of that of guruji's. if reading that if any sence of valgourity or sensuality develops one should accept that still our mind is infected by kama because its only thinking and accepting in its own way, but not by Guru Sahib's
 

drkhalsa

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Sep 16, 2004
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Dear Jagaman Singh

That was an excellent post !
You have presented your views in the best way possible
and not to mention very enlightening

Just keep on enlightening us like that


The thing I like most is that here is the man who is commenting on Dasaam Granth after the direct hand on expwerience of it and not just readin g a book of somebody and trying to mimic his thought process

May Akal Bless you more

Jatinder Singh
 

Sugmad

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Apr 24, 2006
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Sat Sri Akaal,

Duhst Daman was the Warrior of Chandi if anyone can recall. The Demons had attacked
Vaikunth. All the Gods ran in terror and came to Chandi for protection. Chandi fought and fought and the battle was not ending ever and she was getting tired. In all this she
called Dusht Daman forth to fight the demons. After the battles , Dusht Daman retired and did his Tapasya at Hemkunt Sahib. This is not earthly but above in the realms of khands.
That is why that story has been added in that great holy book The Dasam Granth.
Guru Gobind Singh ji was trying to show of his link to that episode that happened long time ago. Greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj cannot be written or told. The Perfect Guru
can be seen when the Mind and the Whole body has been made PURE with NAAM.
GOD can only be seen by the Pure hence the KHALSA . Khalsa was born from the Mauj of
Sat Purush. All our great Gurus lived by the Mauj. All the world live for themselves but the Gurus were Selfless and lived in the Simran of the Great NAAM. That is why in one of our banis is said "IKO SATGUR JAGDE" and the rest of the world is sleeping. Awake and
fight the battles of the mind and be the pure Khalsa of the Guru. If you ever have any problems, think what will our Gurus do in that same situation if you know enough of their
spiritual personalities. SO what ever your problem is whether you are happy or sad,
"THIS TOO SHALL PASS.".

KHALSA OF THE GURU
FATEH OF THE GURU
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
Sugmad said:
Sat Sri Akaal,

Duhst Daman was the Warrior of Chandi if anyone can recall. The Demons had attacked
Vaikunth. All the Gods ran in terror and came to Chandi for protection. Chandi fought and fought and the battle was not ending ever and she was getting tired. In all this she
called Dusht Daman forth to fight the demons. After the battles , Dusht Daman retired and did his Tapasya at Hemkunt Sahib. This is not earthly but above in the realms of khands.
That is why that story has been added in that great holy book The Dasam Granth.
Guru Gobind Singh ji was trying to show of his link to that episode that happened long time ago. Greatness of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj cannot be written or told. The Perfect Guru
can be seen when the Mind and the Whole body has been made PURE with NAAM.
GOD can only be seen by the Pure hence the KHALSA . Khalsa was born from the Mauj of
Sat Purush. All our great Gurus lived by the Mauj. All the world live for themselves but the Gurus were Selfless and lived in the Simran of the Great NAAM. That is why in one of our banis is said "IKO SATGUR JAGDE" and the rest of the world is sleeping. Awake and
fight the battles of the mind and be the pure Khalsa of the Guru. If you ever have any problems, think what will our Gurus do in that same situation if you know enough of their
spiritual personalities. SO what ever your problem is whether you are happy or sad,
"THIS TOO SHALL PASS.".

KHALSA OF THE GURU
FATEH OF THE GURU

This episode is not in Dasham Granth but in Sau Sakhi(both but withdifeernt versions).

It happned that demons attacked durga,who unable to defend herself ran.

She took refuge to one Brahgyani(Brahimn) who was worshipping Akal near Vindhya mountain.

He created a men from the power of his deer hide(cloth he wore).

That person arose from the cloath of Akal worshper rather saved the godess of hindus(like Pahri kings).

That person later told his new born son called dust Daman(suprressor of evil) to mediaite on the name of Akal and go to perhaps hemkunt.

In Kaliyuga,this Brahgyani again will be his father(Ninth Master) and He will again supress the evil and Durga will sreve him.

So before gurmat there were other ways to worship Akal but person had to rebron as Khalsa to be one with Akal and devi was rather bounded by Guru and served him unlike what Hindu says that Guru worshipped Devi.

There could be furhter more deepr meanings in them but this is not in Dasham Granth.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

If das say that Badal worshipes Asutosh that does not means that das also worship Asutosh,it is mere description.

demigods worship say devi,who in turns lives in the feet of Akal and created by same.It is more to do with undestrrcutable Energy(Amitouj) in time frame acting as power or Sakti.Akal did created Siv and Sakti or Purush and Prakrit and godess in myth.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Often Kabeer Panthis like Gareebdais misinterpret the Sikhs and das did wrote and antidote for such Bandi Chorh Ashram baba Rampal of Sampla of Rohtak Haryana.

But coing to Sant Dharam Das Ji,Das would like to have the link for this book.
 
Apr 20, 2006
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Jagaman Singhji

An excellent post. Your analysis and understanding of the Dasam Guru Granth Sahib is SPOT ON.

Wah, Bhai Gursikhji!!!
 

hakimpuria

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Jul 23, 2005
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Giani JarnailSingh ji ,
Guru Fateh, I wish our elders had discussed this issue and made a clear cut decision while approving Sikh Rehat Maryada they made a short cut by saying in the opening lines of Sikh Maryada, “A Sikh is person ------- . At the same time they approved the five Nitname Bani’s (three of which are recited at Amrit Sanchar are form Dasam Granth). I believe, that was approved to bring temporary calm among opposing groups of Babay, Jathaydars, Deraydars , Taksalsies, Nirmlay and people of AKJ philosophy. But the fact is we have more aware and educated people who very well understand mission of our great Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Moreover information is assessable to every one easily because of the media. The so called Brahm Giani’s, Mahapurkhs Sant’s, Nakli babay’s are having hard time to keep their grip on their empires and their authorities. They are trying their best to use and abuse the religious authority they think they have on khalsa Panth. They are no longer afraid to install their own (corrupt) sons and daughters as heads of those institutions for which our fathers and grandfathers laid their lives. They do not even know that Instead of adding any thing of his own Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji ordered the Khalsa Panth to seek Guidance from Guru Granth Sahib forever as their Guru. What else is left for us to discuss. Guru Granth Sahib is our Guru and our Guide forever. It is still time that we as Sikhs try our best to sort out what in Dasam Granth matches with the philosophy of message of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Even though nobody for sure know which Bani’s were recited at on Vasakhi Day (1699). Every Rahitnama and other documents have contradictory info about it. Where were those 52 kavi’s and Kanshi trained scholars? How come they never documented any thing? We are uselessly approving some thing written by those who were not even Sikhs of the guru. I am sure nobody studied Guru Gobind Sahib more than Bhai Nand Lal ji who has no given any clue of any so-called Granth compiled by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
 

navneetsingh

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Dec 25, 2007
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WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
I Think Dasam Granth Is Related to Guru Gobind Singh.But some Banies ,We cannot say it Banies like Trichittar[Chitropakhian] is not Guru's bani.Because in Rozana Spokesman Which is a newspaper that prove this thing in 19 November 2006.In this newspaper Pro. Makhan Singh California & Singh Sabha International Canada Branpatan have written that this is a bani which we cannot read in our family,there are many bad words use in this.This is not as Guru Gobind Singh 's Thinking.If Guru want to give us another granth,Why they say Granth Sahib As GURU.This is only RSS 's bad thinking.

Thanks in advance.
Navneet Singh.
WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH
 
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