Hard Talk - I'm At The Verge Of Losing My Faith In Sikhi. Maybe Already Have. I Need Advice. | Page 7 | Sikh Philosophy Network
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Hard Talk I'm At The Verge Of Losing My Faith In Sikhi. Maybe Already Have. I Need Advice.

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Hard Talk I'm At The Verge Of Losing My Faith In Sikhi. Maybe Already Have. I Need Advice.

Harry Haller

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Jan 31, 2011
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I’m in no position to preach so apologies if that’s what you took from that post just sharing what I have learnt in the last few years.

What’s hard to understand is why there are so many opinions on what the Sikh journey is when it is quite clear in gurbani.
clear to you! not to me
 

sanjeetgill

SPNer
Dec 25, 2007
14
2
Yes. Some people are into sitting and chanting as you have recommended, and others take a different path. That's all I'm saying. The PDF I shared might give you some more information.
What other Sikh paths are there I am intrigued?
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,761
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I’m in no position to preach so apologies if that’s what you took from that post just sharing what I have learnt in the last few years.

What’s hard to understand is why there are so many opinions on what the Sikh journey is when it is quite clear in gurbani.
clear to you! not to me
 

sanjeetgill

SPNer
Dec 25, 2007
14
2
Yes. Some people are into sitting and chanting as you have recommended, and others take a different path. That's all I'm saying. The PDF I shared might give you some more information.
What other Sikh paths are there I am intrigued?
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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Sikhi, to me is about living, not meditating, but I respect what it is to you, I would ask the same from you..
 

Ishna

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May 9, 2006
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What other Sikh paths are there I am intrigued?
I'm trying to be polite by saying that if people want to chant and meditate to find God that way, then they can. But other people read 'simran' as not an activity you do on your own for a moment of perceived merging with god, and read it as a constant mindset to be cultivated, a constant remembrance and awareness of God's complete pervasiveness in everything, and behaving accordingly.
 

sanjeetgill

SPNer
Dec 25, 2007
14
2
Sikhi, to me is about living, not meditating, but I respect what it is to you, I would ask the same from you..
I don’t disrespect your opinion at all (realising now people are quite defensive on here) just really and honestly intrigued.
All the gurus and Bhagats in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have explained that meditation is key through the Shabad guru.

Can I ask where you have learnt about Sikhi from and what scars you are referring to?
 

sanjeetgill

SPNer
Dec 25, 2007
14
2
I'm trying to be polite by saying that if people want to chant and meditate to find God that way, then they can. But other people read 'simran' as not an activity you do on your own for a moment of perceived merging with god, and read it as a constant mindset to be cultivated, a constant remembrance and awareness of God's complete pervasiveness in everything, and behaving accordingly.
Ah I see... I am not being impolite I’m just asking as I am intrigued. The act of simran is to meditate which is what I read from gurbani that’s why maybe I’m finding it hard to understand but each to their own.

Apologies to all if I have offended. If you get a chance take a look at the links I posted earlier and come and visit Guru Maneyo Granth Gurdwara where there’s no hidden agendas, no politics, no committees - just pure teaching of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

221 Bath Road Slough. If nothing else just come and see the breath taking art work... it’s so worth the visit.
 

Harry Haller

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Jan 31, 2011
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I don’t disrespect your opinion at all (realising now people are quite defensive on here) just really and honestly intrigued.
All the gurus and Bhagats in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have explained that meditation is key through the Shabad guru.

Can I ask where you have learnt about Sikhi from and what scars you are referring to?
oh your back,

no its not a question of being defensive, it is a question of clarity, I am clarifying your statement that the journey of Sikhism is only through meditation. What you interpret as meditation, I interpret as living, learning, analysis and questioning.

I was born a Sikh, but follow Sikhism more as a philosophy than a religion.

Scars of living
 

Ishna

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May 9, 2006
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I don’t disrespect your opinion at all (realising now people are quite defensive on here) just really and honestly intrigued.
All the gurus and Bhagats in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have explained that meditation is key through the Shabad guru.

Can I ask where you have learnt about Sikhi from and what scars you are referring to?
Please don't misinterpret our lack of acceptance of your approach as defensiveness. I've shared the Nanakian Philosophy resource as a counterpoint to the resource you shared for the benefit of perhaps yourself, but ultimately any other readers of this thread. I would rather people be fully informed than presented with only one idea.

The meditation debate has been had here at SPN over and over again. I encourage you to do a search and some reading of prior discussions on the topic, or you're welcome to start your own thread on it, please. I think further discussion of meditation here would be vastly off topic for this thread.
 

sanjeetgill

SPNer
Dec 25, 2007
14
2
Please don't misinterpret our lack of acceptance of your approach as defensiveness. I've shared the Nanakian Philosophy resource as a counterpoint to the resource you shared for the benefit of perhaps yourself, but ultimately any other readers of this thread. I would rather people be fully informed than presented with only one idea.

The meditation debate has been had here at SPN over and over again. I encourage you to do a search and some reading of prior discussions on the topic, or you're welcome to start your own thread on it, please. I think further discussion of meditation here would be vastly off topic for this thread.
Thanks or the advice. I was only replying to Rajveers post who was open to people commenting and shouldn’t have responded to any other comments.

Meditation being vastly off topic for a thread about Sikhi is truly baffling which is why I think I should leave it there.

Thank you for the comments. Hope you all find whatever it is you are looking for.
 

sanjeetgill

SPNer
Dec 25, 2007
14
2
oh your back,

no its not a question of being defensive, it is a question of clarity, I am clarifying your statement that the journey of Sikhism is only through meditation. What you interpret as meditation, I interpret as living, learning, analysis and questioning.

I was born a Sikh, but follow Sikhism more as a philosophy than a religion.

Scars of living
I never left...?

It’s funny you say you interpret it as questioning when you’re not open to any answers!

Sikh is a religion not a philosophy.

Had to respond because you’re actually quite funny. Now I’m off unless Rajveer has any comments on post.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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Ishna

Enthusiast
Writer
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May 9, 2006
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Meditation being vastly off topic for a thread about Sikhi is truly baffling which is why I think I should leave it there.
That's why I encourage you to read the PDF. I'm afraid you may only have the dust jacket for the book you'd like to read.

Thank you for the comments. Hope you all find whatever it is you are looking for.
Likewise, all the best to you.
 
Apr 21, 2018
70
10
New York City
My goal right now is what it was when I set off on this journey: to find whatever the Truth is. I chose Sikhi because it's message of love and openness resonated with me. I have spent a great chunk of my time since then studying it and now I'm getting to deeper and trickier questions which I'm struggling with. I am definitely a theist, I believe there is a creator because that is what my thinking has led me to conclude. I'm not just looking to be part of a religion since for me that will come after, first and foremost I am seeking the Truth which I can't do alone and hence I'm turning here for guidance and discussion. I don't know where else to go. As I said in my post, I'm relooking at religions and even though my love for Sikh philosophy is still greater than others as it stands, theologically an historically it's also the one I'm struggling to fully comprehend on my own. I hope this satisfies your questions.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1153
Guru Arjan
raag bhairau mahalaa panjavaa paRataal ghar teejaa
Raag Bhairao, Fifth Mehla, Partaal, Third House:

ikOankaar satigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

paratipaal prabh kirapaal kavan gun ganee ||
God is the Compassionate Cherisher. Who can count His Glorious Virtues?

anik ra(n)g bahu tara(n)g sarab ko dhanee ||1|| rahaau ||
Countless colors, and countless waves of joy; He is the Master of all. ||1||Pause||

anik giaan anik dhiaan anik jaap jaap taap ||
Endless spiritual wisdom, endless meditations, endless chants, intense meditations and austere self-disciplines.

anik gunit dhunit lalit anik dhaar munee ||1||
Countless virtues, musical notes and playful sports; countless silent sages enshrine Him in their hearts. ||1||

anik naadh anik baaj nimakh nimakh anik savaiaadh anik dhokh anik rog miTeh jas sunee ||
Countless melodies, countless instruments, countless tastes, each and every instant. Countless mistakes and countless diseases are removed by hearing His Praise.

naanak sev apaar dhev taTeh khaTeh barat poojaa gavan bhavan jaatr karan sagal fal punee ||2||1||57||8||21||7||57||93||
O Nanak, serving the Infinite, Divine Lord, one earns all the rewards and merits of performing the six rituals, fasts, worship services, pilgrimages to sacred rivers, and journeys to sacred shrines. ||2||1||57||8||21||7||57||93||

bhairau asaTapadheeaa mahalaa pehilaa ghar doojaa
Bhairao, Ashtpadheeyaa, First Mehla, Second House:

ikOankaar satigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

aatam meh raam raam meh aatam cheenas gur beechaaraa ||
The Lord is in the soul, and the soul is in the Lord. This is realized through the Guru's Teachings.

a(n)mirat baanee sabadh pachhaanee dhukh kaaTai hau maaraa ||1||
The Ambrosial Word of the Guru's Bani is realized through the Word of the Shabad. Sorrow is dispelled, and egotism is eliminated. ||1||

naanak haumai rog bure ||
O Nanak, the disease of egotism is so very deadly.

jeh dhekhaa(n) teh ekaa bedhan aape bakhasai sabadh dhure ||1|| rahaau ||
Wherever I look, I see the pain of the same disease. The Primal Lord Himself bestows the Shabad of His Word. ||1||Pause||

aape parakhe parakhanahaarai bahur soolaak na hoiee ||
When the Appraiser Himself appraises the mortal, then he is not tested again.

jin kau nadhar bhiee gur mele prabh bhaanaa sach soiee ||2||
Those who are blessed with His Grace meet with the Guru. They alone are true, who are pleasing to God. ||2||

paun paanee baisa(n)tar rogee rogee dharat sabhogee ||
Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased.

maat pitaa maiaa dheh s rogee rogee kuTa(n)b sa(n)jogee ||3||
Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. ||3||

rogee brahamaa bisan sarudhraa rogee sagal sa(n)saaraa ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased.

har padh cheen bhe se mukate gur kaa sabadh veechaaraa ||4||
Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. ||4||

rogee saat samu(n)dh sanadheeaa kha(n)dd pataal s rog bhare ||
The seven seas are diseased, along with the rivers; the continents and the nether regions of the underworlds are full of disease.

har ke lok s saach suhele sarabee thaiee nadhar kare ||5||
The people of the Lord dwell in Truth and peace; He blesses them with His Grace everywhere. ||5||

rogee khaT dharasan bhekhadhaaree naanaa hattee anekaa ||
The six Shaastras are diseased, as are the many who follow the different religious orders.

bedh kateb kareh keh bapure neh boojheh ik ekaa ||6||
What can the poor Vedas and Bibles do? People do not understand the One and Only Lord. ||6||

mitt ras khai su rog bhareejai ka(n)dh mool sukh naahee ||
Eating sweet treats, the mortal is filled with disease; he finds no peace at all.

naam visaar chaleh an maarag a(n)t kaal pachhutaahee ||7||
Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, they walk on other paths, and at the very last moment, they regret and repent. ||7||

teerath bharamai rog na chhooTas paRiaa baadh bibaadh bhiaa ||
Wandering around at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, the mortal is not cured of his disease. Reading scripture, he gets involved in useless arguments.

dhubidhaa rogu su adhik vadderaa maiaa kaa muhataaj bhiaa ||8||
The disease of duality is so very deadly; it causes dependence on Maya. ||8||

guramukh saachaa sabadh salaahai man saachaa tis rog giaa ||
One who becomes Gurmukh and praises the True Shabad with the True Lord in his mind is cured of his disease.

naanak har jan anadhin niramal jin kau karam neesaan piaa ||9||1||
O Nanak, the humble servant of the Lord is immaculate, night and day; he bears the insignia of the Lord's Grace. ||9||1||
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,761
8,154
50
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 1153
Guru Arjan
raag bhairau mahalaa panjavaa paRataal ghar teejaa
Raag Bhairao, Fifth Mehla, Partaal, Third House:

ikOankaar satigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

paratipaal prabh kirapaal kavan gun ganee ||
God is the Compassionate Cherisher. Who can count His Glorious Virtues?

anik ra(n)g bahu tara(n)g sarab ko dhanee ||1|| rahaau ||
Countless colors, and countless waves of joy; He is the Master of all. ||1||Pause||

anik giaan anik dhiaan anik jaap jaap taap ||
Endless spiritual wisdom, endless meditations, endless chants, intense meditations and austere self-disciplines.

anik gunit dhunit lalit anik dhaar munee ||1||
Countless virtues, musical notes and playful sports; countless silent sages enshrine Him in their hearts. ||1||

anik naadh anik baaj nimakh nimakh anik savaiaadh anik dhokh anik rog miTeh jas sunee ||
Countless melodies, countless instruments, countless tastes, each and every instant. Countless mistakes and countless diseases are removed by hearing His Praise.

naanak sev apaar dhev taTeh khaTeh barat poojaa gavan bhavan jaatr karan sagal fal punee ||2||1||57||8||21||7||57||93||
O Nanak, serving the Infinite, Divine Lord, one earns all the rewards and merits of performing the six rituals, fasts, worship services, pilgrimages to sacred rivers, and journeys to sacred shrines. ||2||1||57||8||21||7||57||93||

bhairau asaTapadheeaa mahalaa pehilaa ghar doojaa
Bhairao, Ashtpadheeyaa, First Mehla, Second House:

ikOankaar satigur prasaadh ||
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

aatam meh raam raam meh aatam cheenas gur beechaaraa ||
The Lord is in the soul, and the soul is in the Lord. This is realized through the Guru's Teachings.

a(n)mirat baanee sabadh pachhaanee dhukh kaaTai hau maaraa ||1||
The Ambrosial Word of the Guru's Bani is realized through the Word of the Shabad. Sorrow is dispelled, and egotism is eliminated. ||1||

naanak haumai rog bure ||
O Nanak, the disease of egotism is so very deadly.

jeh dhekhaa(n) teh ekaa bedhan aape bakhasai sabadh dhure ||1|| rahaau ||
Wherever I look, I see the pain of the same disease. The Primal Lord Himself bestows the Shabad of His Word. ||1||Pause||

aape parakhe parakhanahaarai bahur soolaak na hoiee ||
When the Appraiser Himself appraises the mortal, then he is not tested again.

jin kau nadhar bhiee gur mele prabh bhaanaa sach soiee ||2||
Those who are blessed with His Grace meet with the Guru. They alone are true, who are pleasing to God. ||2||

paun paanee baisa(n)tar rogee rogee dharat sabhogee ||
Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased.

maat pitaa maiaa dheh s rogee rogee kuTa(n)b sa(n)jogee ||3||
Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. ||3||

rogee brahamaa bisan sarudhraa rogee sagal sa(n)saaraa ||
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased.

har padh cheen bhe se mukate gur kaa sabadh veechaaraa ||4||
Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. ||4||

rogee saat samu(n)dh sanadheeaa kha(n)dd pataal s rog bhare ||
The seven seas are diseased, along with the rivers; the continents and the nether regions of the underworlds are full of disease.

har ke lok s saach suhele sarabee thaiee nadhar kare ||5||
The people of the Lord dwell in Truth and peace; He blesses them with His Grace everywhere. ||5||

rogee khaT dharasan bhekhadhaaree naanaa hattee anekaa ||
The six Shaastras are diseased, as are the many who follow the different religious orders.

bedh kateb kareh keh bapure neh boojheh ik ekaa ||6||
What can the poor Vedas and Bibles do? People do not understand the One and Only Lord. ||6||

mitt ras khai su rog bhareejai ka(n)dh mool sukh naahee ||
Eating sweet treats, the mortal is filled with disease; he finds no peace at all.

naam visaar chaleh an maarag a(n)t kaal pachhutaahee ||7||
Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, they walk on other paths, and at the very last moment, they regret and repent. ||7||

teerath bharamai rog na chhooTas paRiaa baadh bibaadh bhiaa ||
Wandering around at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, the mortal is not cured of his disease. Reading scripture, he gets involved in useless arguments.

dhubidhaa rogu su adhik vadderaa maiaa kaa muhataaj bhiaa ||8||
The disease of duality is so very deadly; it causes dependence on Maya. ||8||

guramukh saachaa sabadh salaahai man saachaa tis rog giaa ||
One who becomes Gurmukh and praises the True Shabad with the True Lord in his mind is cured of his disease.

naanak har jan anadhin niramal jin kau karam neesaan piaa ||9||1||
O Nanak, the humble servant of the Lord is immaculate, night and day; he bears the insignia of the Lord's Grace. ||9||1||

sorry are you for or against, the above can be taken for both arguments!
 

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