Hard Talk Idols Of Sikh Gurus Being Sold In Market

Discussion in 'Hard Talk' started by Aman Singh, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. Aman Singh

    Aman Singh Admin SPNer

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    The markets are flooded with idols costing between Rs 50 and Rs 1,500. Made of marble powder, metal or stone and gold plated, they are being sold in leading gift shops.

    sikh-idols.jpg

    A random survey reveales that a majority of these idols are imported from China, besides being sourced from Mumbai, Moradabad and Rajasthan. These idols are also available online. The objection is that Sikhism prohibits idol worship and only paintings of the 10 Sikh Gurus (Source ?) could be used for display or on calendars.

    What is your take on this issue?
     
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  3. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    Even paintings can sometimes step into the boundaries of idol worship...

    I don't think they are ok personally. But I do have one of those tiny car dash photo things with all 10 gurus paintings. It's about 2" square. I keep it on my desk. I sometimes worry I am doing something wrong even with that.
     
  4. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Statues don't worship statues, people worship statues. :) The statues themselves are fine (no they're not, they're gaudy as heck!). The real failing is in the lack of education teaching people not to worship the idols, or the paintings.

    Actually, evidence of selling the paperweights isn't enough for me - I'd like to see evidence of people worshiping them before getting my kacchera in a bunch.

    I have a small picture of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji stuck to the side of my computer monitor at work. Together with a quote "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away" by Antoine de Saint-Exupery. It has only just not occurred to me how these two things really go together. Ik Onkar!
     
  5. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    I a not sure this makes any sense, although paintings can be used for display or calendars, those paintings still get worshipped, surrounded with garlands, etc etc.

    Idol worship takes place at every Gurudwara in the world, whether it is the worship of the stairs, the building, the floor outside the building, to me, personally, that is my own personal opinion, not to be taken as fact, or as an invite for legal proceedings, any action that assumes God is only present in a nominated area seems strange.
     
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  6. guru Daas

    guru Daas SPNer Supporter

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    Admin Singh brother,
    That's a major problem in the panth today.some sikhs don't even understand what Sikhi truly is.I see people bowing down to Nishan sahib & circling
    around it all the time & when i ask them that why are they doing that did guru ji tell them to do that?they have no answer. Nishan sahib is a symbol of the Khalsa Set up by Guru Hargobind singh ji first & then used throughout the times. The main purpose of it was that anyone in need of help,food or shelter would see it from a long distance & they would know that its the Khalsa territory.
    Its not just the Nishan sahib,people bow down to Stairs,doors,entrance gates & buildings etc. Our guru ji tells us that a sikh shouldn't bow down before anyone or anything except SGGS ji.
    None of our gurus ever told us to worship them or bow down to them. They have always told us to praise that divine Akal Purakh who is the creator of us all.
    No disrespect to anyone just my personal opinion.
     
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  7. Joginder Singh Foley

    Joginder Singh Foley Writer SPNer

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    WGKK WGKF

    Only Guruji alone is worth and due our divination. As well as pushing the boundries of the Rehit Maryadia they are at best tacky bits of C#@& only fit for the tourist trade that no true Singh or Singhni would want in his or her home or workplace al I have at work is a large photo pinned on my notice board of the Harimander Sahib and some Singh bros doing Gatka


    :singhfacepalm:
     
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  8. Inderjeet Kaur

    Inderjeet Kaur Writer SPNer Supporter

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    These remind me of the little plastic statues that some Christians put on the dashboards of their cars.

    The Gurus didn't leave us with their portraits for a very good reason. Several very good reasons, actually. This is one of them. It is a small step from those attractive but phoney "portraits of Gurus" by Sobha Singh to statuettes which become idols.

    I understand that when these pictures first came out, they were very controversial, but over time, we got used to having them. I have none on display in my home. I have been asked why I have photos of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale on my wall, but no pictures of Gurus. My answer is always the same, no one has any pictures of our Gurus. The photos of Sant Ji are real and I find them meaningful and uplifting.

    I am not criticizing or judging against people who display these pictures. They make their choice. I make mine.
     
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  9. RicktheSikh

    RicktheSikh Writer SPNer

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't bowing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji be idol worship if one did not fully understand the reason for matha tek? Like if a person was indifferent or ignorant to the teachings of the Guru but still went to gurdwara and bowed to appease Mom and Dad?
     
  10. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur

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    Some people matha tel to more than SGGSJ. Some also bow to other granths. Some bow to images of Gurus (the paintings we have come to think of as the Gurus really is artist impression and we don’t know how accurate. And besides a photo is NOT the same as the Guru. Some bow to various historical things kept at Gurdwaras. Including Shastars etc. Nidhan Sahib etc.

    Guru Gobind Singh Ji was quoted as saying bow only to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as your Guru and no other.
     
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  11. sukhsingh

    sukhsingh Writer SPNer

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    It could be seen as idol worship in some instances I believe, it depends on how the person bowing down conceptualises SGGS Ji..

    However I think first of all it is important to discern veneration from worship and more specifically idol worship .. Idol worship is when people believe a idol to be a avatar of the divine..
    Bowing down to SGGS Ji is a act of veneration and respect..
     
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  12. chetan sharma

    chetan sharma SPNer

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    Brother as per my knowledge from Shri Guru Granth Sahib, idols/painting aren’t prohibited in Sikhism ..
    some people take one or two lines from full shlok and misinterprete that or get confused with that.. please let me know from which source you think idols/ paintings prohibit in Sikhism
     
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  13. chetan sharma

    chetan sharma SPNer

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    Brother can you tell where and when Guru Sahib prohibit idols/ painting worship..
     
  14. dalvindersingh grewal

    dalvindersingh grewal Writer Historian SPNer

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    Sikh religion prohibits idols and photo worship. Marketing objective is to sell their products. China and other idol/ photo makers exhibit their products to lure the young and pure minds towards their goods. This is how the minds are polluted. The education of these young minds and pure minds to follow the edicts of Sikhism is not really fully functional creating a gap in course correction. Awareness of these edicts only will bring these minds to their right path.
     
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  15. chetan sharma

    chetan sharma SPNer

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    Still no clarification where Guru Sahib commands to prohibit Idols/painting worship..
    Guru sahib command to obey Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji.. in SGGSJ I didn’t find where idols/painting worship prohibited.. please enlighten my darkness
     
  16. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    Shalok from Ang 1240/1241?

    ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ
    Salok mėhlā 1.
    Shalok, First Mehl:

    ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ
    Gẖar nārā▫iṇ sabẖā nāl.
    In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods.

    ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ
    Pūj kare rakẖai nāvāl.
    You wash your stone gods and worship them.

    ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ
    Kungū cẖannaṇ ful cẖaṛā▫e.
    You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.

    ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ
    Pairī pai pai bahuṯ manā▫e.
    Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.

    ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ
    Māṇū▫ā mang mang painĥai kẖā▫e.
    Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat.

    ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ
    Anḏẖī kammī anḏẖ sajā▫e.
    For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished.

    ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ
    Bẖukẖi▫ā ḏe▫e na marḏi▫ā rakẖai.
    Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying.

    ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥
    Anḏẖā jẖagṛā anḏẖī sathai. ||1||
    The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1||
     
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  17. chetan sharma

    chetan sharma SPNer

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    In this I don’t see where Guru Sahib prohibit Idols .. in this shlok Guru Sahib commands to keep away from “ andhvishwash” ..
    As per your logic Guru Sahib said Idols don’t feed hungry people even not safe dying..
    Same thing with nitnaem .. jap too not feed hungry even not save dying.. but it make inner peace and touch your soul with Akal purkh..

    So from this quote you can’t say Idols worship is prohibited.. and clearly says keep away from people who for there blind deeds set up some andhvishwash.. (like case of people like Ram Rahim, Asaram Bapu , Rampal)..
     
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  18. Ishna

    Ishna Enthusiast Writer SPNer

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    When I read Gurbani, by my logic (popular word on this forum these days!) there is no point in worshipping idols just as there is no point worshipping any other goddess or god apart from Ik Onkar - it is a waste of time. Do you find Gurbani supportive of idol worship?
     
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  19. chetan sharma

    chetan sharma SPNer

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    Did you not read “chandi di vaar” in Shri Dasam Granth.. In which it is clearly said Guru Sahiba did Simran of Bhagwati / Chandi..
    With this two myth brokers 1. No worship to god or goddess apart from Akal purkh ( even if you read more about Guru Sahib you will read about lots of sikhs , disciples of Guru.. still practice muslimism and Hinduism..
    2. Chadi/bhagwati Simran is idol worship..
    There must be if but .. you can’t reject this that idols worship is prohibited as it is not mentioned to worship idols..
    It is also not mentioned to boycott (heavy word) idols worship..
     
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  20. chetan sharma

    chetan sharma SPNer

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  21. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller

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    Well, not everyone accepts the complete authority of the DG...
     
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