Lee said:Hey John,
You do have a very good point when you say:
'The issue is not would a Sikh use this to inflict harm on anyone, but this then becomes a precedent that will prevent needed legislation in the total banning of knives.'
Again though I think the major point is the misunderstanding of Kirpan, you keep calling it a knife. I agree we should not just let people carry knifes around willy nilly, I understand also how the rest of society may see it.
However every time we call a kirpan a knife, then we reinforce this idea that Sikhs are allowed to carry knifes.
It is not a knife, it is a kirpan, an article of faith that our Guru has told us to carry if we are Khalsa(pure)
What is needed is not the abolishment of Sikhs carrying kirpan, but the education of what it is and what it means.
We in the west find it hard to understand why any Muslim woman would choose to cover up, and many of us see it degrading to the women. However Muslim women do cover up, and they do it for religious reasons. So we may not totaly understand the reasons but we must respect their choice and garentee their freedom of choice.
A Sikhs kipan is no differant from this. Some may see it as a knife and be worried that it may be used as such. Some may not understand why the Khalsa need to carry it, but we must respect their choice, and garentee thier freedom of choice.
I have to ask though, John, you say that we need to totaly ban the carrying of knifes, I ask why you feel we should have laws for this?
I ask this because you say:
'As social cohesion depends on all of us living under both moral and legal obligations and may mean that for the greater good our personal rights have to be modified or in some instances surrendered'
And I wish for you think about how one persons concept of what is moral will differ from anothers. So then the real question becomes two fold, whos moral compass do we use, and have we the right to force a moral concept on those that may not share it?
Banning knifes, would not bring down the incidents of crime, or killings, or injuries, the people that would do this sort of thing will carry on, but use something other than a knife.
Would laws against knifes not then force the criminal to take up guns instead?
Nothing in this life is black and white, and I can see no good of trying to stamp on anybodies religious freedom, this only cause a them and us mentality.
I have no hesitation in saying that I enjoy reading your posts John. A request to xishveirx ji not to write something like what John is doing here. For me, diversity is an asset to the forum, where we get different point of views. I want to write more about this.. may be some other time.thecoopes said:Dear Lee and friends, xishveirx asked what am I doing on a Sikh discussion forum when I am not a Sikh and may post comments that offend?
First I must say that when I post I don’t intentionally go out of my way to offend the Sikh community, and secondly please think about the value of a discussion forum that only allowed sycophantic ego massaging platitudes.
xishveirx said:I might have made a blunt statement and probably wrong reference to John's credibility. Therefore, I would like to apologize for questioning john's being here in this forum.
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