Hard Talk How Many Sikhs Have Married Out Of Caste/race?

[Josh martin]

the iron test of a Sikh is to whether they have actually married out of caste/race/tribe?

So thats the Iron test. Now where did ya get that fact from ?

 

[tony]

Josh martin ji
I agree with Randip Singh ji that it is an Iron test of a Sikh, it shows you dont believe in the caste system and that where all Gods children. God created everyone so why cant we marry anyone we choose. Why is the shopkeepers daughter/son better than the Farmers, its usually money/ social status nothing at all to do with God. A true Sikh sees no difference in anyone. So yes it is one of the best tests for a Sikh to say he/she understands Equality.
Tony

 

[Lee]

Shearwater ji your post contradicts itself, how does marrying someone from the same culture display equality, Different race = different culture, as with different religion, to see a difference in culture/ religion is to display inequality. My wife and I are from completely different cultural/ religious backgrounds and yet we treat each other as perfect equals, although I think she might be the Boss, more sense than myself. Equality comes from the acceptance of others differences and not from tolerence at a distance. the sooner the world mixes into one people the better.
btw who do you consider as unbelievers in the context of the bible
Tony

Indeed there is a world of differance between 'tolerance' and 'acceptance'

 

[Josh martin]

Josh martin ji
I agree with Randip Singh ji that it is an Iron test of a Sikh, it shows you dont believe in the caste system and that where all Gods children. God created everyone so why cant we marry anyone we choose. Why is the shopkeepers daughter/son better than the Farmers, its usually money/ social status nothing at all to do with God. A true Sikh sees no difference in anyone. So yes it is one of the best tests for a Sikh to say he/she understands Equality.
Tony

So a person marrying in his own race/tribe/caste fails the IRON test of sikhi?

 

[jasbirkaleka]

With all due respect, I still think it would have had a great impact on the psycie of the Sikhs if even one of our great Gurus had married out of his caste.

 

[Hardip Singh]

So a person marrying in his own race/tribe/caste fails the IRON test of sikhi?

Josh jee,
That is not the question at all on this thread. A person doing any thing within his race/tribe /cast is a normal affair & has no controvery attached to this. Question started By Bhai Randip jee was how many of us have those guts to do something not normal in the system but also a thing which Sikhi does support. Thus, it becomes a sort of Iron Test for us Sikhs. How many of us Sikhs can go against the established system. I hope it should clarify the text in question.
Guru Fateh.
Hardip Singh

 

[Josh martin]

Josh jee,
That is not the question at all on this thread. A person doing any thing within his race/tribe /cast is a normal affair & has no controvery attached to this. Question started By Bhai Randip jee was how many of us have those guts to do something not normal in the system but also a thing which Sikhi does support. Thus, it becomes a sort of Iron Test for us Sikhs. How many of us Sikhs can go against the established system. I hope it should clarify the text in question.
Guru Fateh.
Hardip Singh

Nicely explained. You have it right.
"how many of us Sikhs can go against the established system". Needs to be elaborated. That line might leave some people confused. Marrying Out of established system does not mean out of dharam/sikhi etc.

 

[Ravinderahl]

Not many! The majority of sikhs are classed in the lowest hindu caste category but does it stop them trying to prove that their jaat/caste is the tops!

 

[joty4]

ssakal all

I was wondering if someone could explain to me what the guru granth sahib says about love marriages, or jus marriages in general (with some proof), and what the guru granth says, if anything, about marrying someone who is divorced or if he/she has children from a previpous marriage??

thanx!

 

[spnadmin]

ssakal all

I was wondering if someone could explain to me what the guru granth sahib says about love marriages, or jus marriages in general (with some proof), and what the guru granth says, if anything, about marrying someone who is divorced or if he/she has children from a previpous marriage??

thanx!

jotty4 ji,
Guru Granth Sahib ji is silent on marriage with someone who is divorced and/or someone who has children from a previous marriage. Guru ji is remarkable among religious texts for its lack of micromanagement of the affairs of human beings. Seva to God and Seva to humanity, living in dharma, making an honest living, these are the things we are guided toward by the Gurus.

On the subject of marriage Guruji does guide us -- usually in the direction that says do not subvert the spirituality in your marriage through the workings of lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego to your spouse or your children, anymore than to anything else in your life. Strive to attach yourself to the Lotus feet of Waheguru. And live in your marriage as soul-mates with Him.

Be one soul through 2 bodies.

You can link to the shabad below that explains how attachment to spouse and children and relatives affect each individual.

Page77 Line 15 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev

ਪੁਤ੍ਰਿ ਕਲਤ੍ਰਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਲਪਟਿਆ ਵਣਜਾਰਿਆ ਮਿਤ੍ਰਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਲਹਰਿ ਲੋਭਾਨੁ ॥
puthr kalathr mohi lapattiaa vanajaariaa mithraa anthar lehar lobhaan ||
He is entangled in emotional attachment to his wife and sons, O my merchant friend, and deep within him, the waves of greed are rising up.

When Guruji speaks of marriage - it is the marriage with a Divine Bridegroom. There are many verses like this one. Again, the link to the shabad is just above the Gurbani,

Page763 Line 16 Raag Soohee: Guru Nanak Dev

ਸਾਹਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਰਜਾਇ ਸੋ ਨ ਟਲੈ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਕਰੈ ਬਲਿ ਰਾਮ ਜੀਉ ॥
saahaa hukam rajaae so n ttalai jo prabh karai bal raam jeeo ||
The moment of that marriage will be set by the Hukam of God's Command; His Will cannot be changed.

When Guruji speaks of a husband or wife, both husband and wife are considered the soul brides of Waheguru, and should strive for the virtues that bring one closer to the Bridegroom.

Page17 Line 19 Raag Sriraag: Guru Nanak Dev

ਜਾਇ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਤੁਸੀ ਰਾਵਿਆ ਕਿਨੀ ਗੁਣਂ​*ੀ ॥
jaae pushhahu sohaaganee thusee raaviaa kinee gunanaee ||
Go, and ask the happy soul-brides, ""By what virtuous qualities do you enjoy your Husband Lord?""

In this shabad, the evil and foolish wife can be either a man or a woman. The point of the shabad is that husband and wife need to try to attain virtues that befit the marriage of their souls with the Divine Bridegroom.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੈਲੀ ਕਾਮਣੀ ਕੁਲਖਣੀ ਕੁਨਾਰਿ ॥
manamukh mailee kaamanee kulakhanee kunaar ||
The self-willed manmukh, the foolish bride, is a filthy, rude and evil wife.

ਪਿਰੁ ਛੋਡਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਪਰ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
pir shhoddiaa ghar aapanaa par purakhai naal piaar ||
Forsaking her Husband Lord and leaving her own home, she gives her love to another.

ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਚੁਕਈ ਜਲਦੀ ਕਰੇ ਪੂਕਾਰ ॥
thrisanaa kadhae n chukee jaladhee karae pookaar ||


ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੁਰੂਪਿ ਕੁਸੋਹਣੀ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਛੋਡੀ ਭਤਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
naanak bin naavai kuroop kusohanee parehar shhoddee bhathaar ||1||
O Nanak, without the Name, she is ugly and ungraceful. She is abandoned and left behind by her Husband Lord. ||1||


So love marriage or arranged marriage for Sikhs there are few ingredients in the recipe but the preparation requires a lot of effort.

 

[joty4]

WOw that has cleared up and answered so many questions in my mind... I feel like my path in life is more defined now not just regarding marriage but so many other issues, thanx for your help!

Thank you SO much

 

[aks]

Sorry a question. How do I start a a new thread? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

I had a question re: Hindu-Sikh marriages? From what I understand, Zaat mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji encompasses everything: caste, religion, race, ethnicity.

I am a sikh of devout sikh parents in love with a Hindu man. I completely believe in the sikh philosophy and go to the gurudwara on a regular basis. I recite the path and meditate as well. But in no way haave I ever said to myself: I will only marry a Sikh.

Please tell me how to post a thread. I need advice on how to convince my father that marrying a Hindu is acceptable in Sikhism.

 

[AusDesi]

Sorry a question. How do I start a a new thread? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

I had a question re: Hindu-Sikh marriages? From what I understand, Zaat mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji encompasses everything: caste, religion, race, ethnicity.

I am a sikh of devout sikh parents in love with a Hindu man. I completely believe in the sikh philosophy and go to the gurudwara on a regular basis. I recite the path and meditate as well. But in no way haave I ever said to myself: I will only marry a Sikh.

Please tell me how to post a thread. I need advice on how to convince my father that marrying a Hindu is acceptable in Sikhism.

I think the decision is upto you and your partner. Sikhism and Hinduism are distict religions but they are religions that co-exist. In India there are many couples like you two. If you don't think its a problem, its not.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sorry a question. How do I start a a new thread? Can't seem to find it anywhere.

I had a question re: Hindu-Sikh marriages? From what I understand, Zaat mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji encompasses everything: caste, religion, race, ethnicity.

I am a sikh of devout sikh parents in love with a Hindu man. I completely believe in the sikh philosophy and go to the gurudwara on a regular basis. I recite the path and meditate as well. But in no way haave I ever said to myself: I will only marry a Sikh.

Please tell me how to post a thread. I need advice on how to convince my father that marrying a Hindu is acceptable in Sikhism.

BUT you should forever say to yourself..I WILL ALWAYS REMAIN A SIKH !!
In marriage..its always the norm that the WOMAN will follow the religion of the MAN....and IF you do THAT....then all this is just academic as it had nothing to do with Sikhism/Hinduism at all. The BETTER thing would be IF you got your husband to become a SIKH !! and raise all your children as SIKHS.:ice::ice:

 

[spnadmin]

aks ji

Read your private messages for information about how to start a new thread.

 

[GoriDK]

Sat Sri Akal.:yes:

Im not a sikh, but my husbond is. so he is married out of Jaat/Zaat and religion.
We respect each others background whatever it is race, religion or values.
I cant understand why someone would´nt get married just becauce they have a differnt caste, race or religion. . we are all people with the same color blood in our bodies. . Should it not be enough.:}{}{}:

 

[unbiasedview]

ssa,
i know my suggestion may not be right in all scenarios,but it holds very true in an india scenerio.What u r sayin is probably right too.But in india its a different picture.Here majority of ppl especially in north india know quite a lot abt sikhism and they appreciate it too.but media and certain organisations have demonised sikh appearance to such an extent that in general ppl dont like it.and i have hardly seen in my life any sikh girl here in india ,after getting married to a non sikh ,being effective in enlightening her in laws family to sikhism and attracting them to sikh faith.infact most of them themselve renounce there religion after getting married out of religion.there kids are never sikh or token sikhs at best.

 

[unbiasedview]

Sat Sri Akal.:yes:

Im not a sikh, but my husbond is. so he is married out of Jaat/Zaat and religion.
We respect each others background whatever it is race, religion or values.
I cant understand why someone would´nt get married just becauce they have a differnt caste, race or religion. . we are all people with the same color blood in our bodies. . Should it not be enough.:}{}{}:

ssa,
yeah i fully agree with u goridk ji.infact even i would like the world to be like this where everyone is treated at par.but in reality there are very few ppl in this world with your depth of thinking.sikh guys because of there unique appearance are often subject to racist discrimination.that is what concerns me. and what infuriates me most is this racist group includes lots of sikh girls also.I can somewhat link with those ppl who are not used to sikh type of appearnace.but what abt these sikh gals.they see there parents and brothers with these looks all through there life.how can they not like this appearance?

 

[kds1980]

ssa,
i know my suggestion may not be right in all scenarios,but it holds very true in an india scenerio.What u r sayin is probably right too.But in india its a different picture.Here majority of ppl especially in north india know quite a lot abt sikhism and they appreciate it too.but media and certain organisations have demonised sikh appearance to such an extent that in general ppl dont like it.and i have hardly seen in my life any sikh girl here in india ,after getting married to a non sikh ,being effective in enlightening her in laws family to sikhism and attracting them to sikh faith.infact most of them themselve renounce there religion after getting married out of religion.there kids are never sikh or token sikhs at best.

Your views are quite practical most upto the marks

 

[amrit.saggu]

5 days I broke up with my humble & truthful persian girlfriend of 2 years. We loved each other dearly and shared many values. She was respectful and open to Sikh beliefs and told me she would be more than content raising children with Sikh values. Unfortunately her mother was not supportive of our relationship with the fear of cultural differences playing a destructive factor in the long term. She blatantly stated that she trusts in her daughters choice in a partner but fears the Sikh community because of our reputation. Instead of putting up my defenses, I decided to try to perceive through her shoes and began to realize what her fears were. I tried to explain to her that we are all children of the universe and that Sikhism is preaches equality amongst all beings. She called me naive. We gave it some time and tried to let it sink, but her mother would not be open to the idea of trying to get to know me. When I introduced my girlfriend to my parents, they were open to meet her with the expected reservations. My father advised me against marrying her since our relationship did not have the support of her parents. My only choice was to leave her. I did not want to carry the burden of the straining relationship between her and her mother. Basically, I gave up. Reason being; I began to realize that our purpose for being human is not to get deeply involved in worldly attachments, but to be selfless and compassionate beings on our journey back to the Divine Waheguru. So in this case, I simply counted the number of people I would hurt if I decided to continue with this relationship, and subtracted it by the number of people who would benefit. The truth will always remain the truth, all beings are but one, But in the case where someones perspective is just not cool with that- what can you really do about it?

Amrit