Sinner - you obviously need to read The Granth and actually understand it. You have underlined various parts of my paragraph stating your own opinions alongside. However, the simple fact is there was a war going on when Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born and He therefore wanted to create peace between the two religions. Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born and brought up in a muslim environment and His best friend was a muslim so many quotes actually came from his friend and pthers around him which were used in The Granth, they were not quotes by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, which the group Ahmeddins use to falsley state they were. Sikhs need to be aware of this fact rather than be brainwashed. At the end of the day, you have your opinion however that does not change the facts.
How Could Guru Nanak Visit Mecca If He Wasn't A Muslim?
Jesus was born into a Jewish family. It does not make him a Jew. Since Sikhi was so new when Guru Nanak Ji was married how could he possibly marry a Sikh? His wife lived the life of a Sikh so was no longer a Hindu. That is the fact.
Actually there was never a religion that is called Hinduism,what most of people use to follow was vedic religion which certainly Guru Nanak did not accept
Verma ji,
Guru Fateh.
As Judaism, Christianity and Islam come from the one Abrahamical umbilical cord, would you call all three religions one and the same?
Hope to hear from you.
Tejwant Singh
He might have been born into a Hindu family but He rejected janeu, caste system, idols etc. Guru Nanak lived a life independent of Hindu lifestyle and Truth, Humanity, Honest hard work and Knowledge are the roots of Sikhism.
rajneesh madhok
SPNer
- Jan 1, 2010
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Guru Nanak Dev ji was born in HIndu family "How the word might arise". In birth the word of might is meaningless. Sikhism is comparatively a new religion in India. This religion was established by Guru Nanak. Guru Nanak was born into a Hindu family in 1469 in the Punjab_region . Since childhood he loved to travel, learn and preach humanity. In those days people who taught and preached were titled Guru meaning teacher, his followers became to be known as Sikhs meaning learners. The creators of Sikhism tried to abolish some of the Indian customs such as the Caste_system and Sati (practice) - burning of the widow. In Sikhism everyone has equal rights irrespective of caste, creed, color, race, sex or religion. Sikhism rejects pilgrimage, fasting, superstitions and other such rituals. Sikhism does not have a clergy class as it considers this as a gateway to corruption. However, they have readers and singers in their temples.
Sikhism_in_India Rajneesh Madhok
Sikhism_in_India Rajneesh Madhok
Kds1980....where does Guru Nanak Dev Ji say he does not accept Vedic religion?!! Guru Nanak Dev Ji simply reiterated how people should live and only said people should not get caught up in religious practices if they are forgetting the main purpose of spirituality and religion. Vedic religion is the oldest of the world, the people of that age were actually Aryans. The Vedic religion is from a different era, so old that it has been passed on through generations from age to age, era to era.
As people started to forget the real purpose of the religion as time went on, Guru Nanak Dev Ji simply explained this to the people again and reminded them of the true meaning and the real interpretation of the religion. Hinduism is the name given to those of Vedic ancestory and was given by the British in this age.
Unfortunately Sikhs nowadays are so easily manipulated and can be told anything and they will follow without correctly understanding the Granth. A lot of people have used this to divide the two religions apart and unfortunately from what I see especially from this post, have succeeded.
What Guru Nanak Dev Ji was saying was definitely not a rejection of the Hindu religion, instead they were bringing to light that caste, etc does not matter and to remind people that the true meaning of religion is to meditate! There were problems between the Hindus and muslims and Guru Nanak Dev Ji's point was to make peace between the 2. If you actually look at the two religions, the basis is the same...both believe in meditation, both in re-incarnation, both in no meat, both in the cycle of birth and death! These are just some of the similarities. As time has gone on, people have changed parts of the Granth for their political reasons.
It is actually a similar situation now, people have misinterpretated the teachings of the Guru's so much its unbelieveable. The point of this discussion and thread was actually a different poit...its about muslims claiming that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was muslim and that is the important thing to educate in the Sikh community and they are using false information to try convert Sikhs into muslims.
'Finding my way' I think you are confusing christianity and islam with Spiritual religions like Hindusim, Buddhism and Sikhism and to some extent Judaism. Firstly, the origin of christianity and islam were from violence. Christianity is based on Judaism and Jesus also went to India to learn about spirituality as well. islam had a very violent beginning where mohammed was at war with the Jewish!! They do have the same basis yes, BUT mohammed has changed a lot of the original parts of Judaism to actually go to war with the, which may I add is still going on! islam is something that was creating for war! It is not a real religion at all.
Hinduism is a Spiritual religion that has influenced the peaceful spiritual religions of the east - Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. Sikhs were not at war with the Hindus at any point, if anything they were very much together and thats the basis of the religion. Nowadays unfortuately Sikhs are failing to see the real point of the Sikh religion. Guru Nnanak Dev Ji dod not actually start a new religion, instead he enlightened them on the main purpose on the religion to get them on the right path! The religion Sikhism was not actually created until Guru Gobind Singh Ji actually and that is a fact. Sikhism was a way of life before then and to try and explain to people to be good human beings and not mistreat each other. The 'Panj Pyare' were actually Hindu's who then took on the surname 'Singh' after that to be warriors, to fight the mughals and protect the Indians from being converted and killed.
The word 'Guru' itself comes from the Vedas. If there was any connection to muslims surely they would have taken a muslim name, not 'Guru.'
The fact is, Sikhism was not actually a separate religion until Guru Gobind Singh Ji and that too for warrior purposes, where Hindu boys were given the 'Singh' surname change. Guru Nanak Dev Ji's children also had Hindu names.
People nowadays are taking quotes from the Granth out of context and in small parts without looking at the deeper meaning and interpreting in a way they want to. They are making points about the Hindu religion and Sikh religion without knowing the facts, based on hearsay or parts taken from it without looking at the context! This is really apalling. I myself am Hindu and Sikh and understand both the religions as someone who has looked into and believes in both. In history, every Hindu family would have their eldest son sent to the Khalsa and have the Singh surname to protect them from conversion and be trained to be warriors against the muslims. Guru Nanak Dev Ji's mission was not to do what some Sikhs are doing now, dividing the Hindu and Sikh religion, but then again that is the nature of humans, to corrupt and use everything in the wrong ways as time goes on. This is one of the main reason Guru Nnak Dev Ji reiterated everything, to put people back on the right path, not to divide the Hindu and Sikh religions when they are actually the same. I am just glad that the majority of Sikhs understand the two religions are the same and those that consider the two religions apart are clearly not educated enough and are in the minority.
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The first master was not a Hindu or a Muslim, he was a Sikh, he may have been born into a Hindu family but that does not mean that Sikhism came from Hinduism, Sikhs do not believe in reincarnation, Sikhs eat meat, and the cycle of birth and death is open to interpretation,
As far as dividing the two religions apart, what do they have in common other than those that cling on to ritual and tradition within Sikhism?
The true meaning of Sikhism goes deeper than meditating, it is being connected to Creation and Creator by your actions, thoughts, words, and at the same time using the world as a playground within which to explore the concepts as stated in the SGGS. There is no magic in Sikhi, no praying to Idols, no fasting, its very simple, believe in Creator and behave as Creator designed you to behave, and thats it.
I respect Hinduism hugely, and, thanks to Rajneeshji, have read a book about it that he quoted from, I found it quite superstitious and ritualistic, perhaps you could correct me on that point as I find Sikhism neither
Tejwant Singh,
I do not see christianity and islam in the same light as Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. Christianity has caused war, converting, etc not to the same extent as islam , but still has. Then theres islam, muslims actually do accept Jesus as one of their prophets and also I do not see this as a real religion, it was used by mohammed to start a war and I do not believe that he was a prophet so it is not a religion. The two religions are branches of Judaism and to some extent islam has also taken and misused information form the Torah and from the Hindu religion and tailored it into what he wants from life fpr his own objectives - to turn the world muslim....something muslims are still trying to do now. What religion that spreads hatred amongst other religions, that partakes in animal sacrifice, witholds women, treats women as inferior to men, there are a million things I do not agree with in that religion! How can that be called a religion?! No way.
So, I believe their base is in Judaism, however things from that religion have been misinterpreted to achieve the personal and political gains by mohammed.
In Hinduism it is very different. Guru Nanak Dev Ji and other Gurus and Sikhism in general was not made to fight the Hindus at all, the two religion always are and have been in unity. If anything Guru Gobind Singh Ji made the Sikhism a warrior clan to fight against the moghals who were ruling India at that time. The main belief system for Hindus and Sikhs are the same as with Buddhism and Jainsim. The spiritual aspects are the same, the only differences are in terms of caste and wordly way of life, which people had lost along the way and had to be put on the right path. A bit like now really. It wasn't supposed to be a different religion at all, this was not the objective. People have now created divisions as they are not understanding the core of Sikhism and letting others brainwash them and are easily influenced.
I am both Hindu and Sikh, therefore have studied both religions and its amazing how people misinterpret a few quotes and paragraphs without understanding the context. In this thread, the post is actually about muslims falsifying the truth to convince people that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was muslim. This is disgusting that muslims actually have the guts to say this (mainly the ahmadiyya muslims if you google this and put Guru Nanak Dev Ji next to it it will show how they have misused information), but unfortunately some Sikhs (although in minority) have started to convert thinking this is true and are not educated enough to know this is certainly not true. This is the problem, they are very easily influenced without knowing the truth about their own religion.
Verma
Just read the following vaar of Bhai Gurdas ji ,it looks he too was manipulated
ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਇਕ ਵਰਨ ਕਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਅਵਰਨ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਜਾਪੈ।
Chaari Varani Ik Varani Kari Varan Avaran Saadhasangu Jaapai.
चारि वरनि इक वरनि करि वरन अवरन साधसंगु जापै ।
Since the true Guru integrated all the four varnas into one, this assemblage of varnas has come to be known as the holy con
1 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੧
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ਛਿਅ ਰੁਤੀ ਛਿਅ ਦਰਸਨਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਸੂਰਜੁ ਥਾਪੈ।
Chhia Routee Chhia Darasanaa Guramoukhi Darasanu Sooraju Daapai.
छिअ रुती छिअ दरसना गुरमुखि दरसनु सूरजु थापै ।
Among six seasons and six philosophies, the Gurmukh-philosophy has been established like the Sun (among the planets).
2 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੨
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ਬਾਰਹ ਪੰਥ ਮਿਟਾਇ ਕੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਥ ਵਡਾ ਪਰਤਾਪੈ।
Baarah Pand Mitaai Kai Guramoukhi Pand Vadaa Parataapai.
बारह पंथ मिटाइ कै गुरमुखि पंथ वडा परतापै ।
Wiping out all the twelve ways (of yogis) the Guru has created the mighty Gurmukh-way (panth).
3 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੩
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ਵੇਦ ਕਤੇਬਹੁ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਅਨਹਦ ਸਬਦੁ ਅਗੰਮ ਅਲਾਪੈ।
Vayd Kataybahu Baaharaa Anahad Sabadu Aganm Alaapai.
वेद कतेबहु बाहरा अनहद सबदु अगंम अलापै ।
This panth keeps itself away from the boundaries of the Vedas and the Katebas and always remembers as well as sings the uns
4 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੪
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ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪਾਖਾਕ ਹੋਇ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਪਛਾਪੈ।
Pairee Pai Paa Khaak Hoi Gurasikhaa Raharaasi Pachhaapai.
पैरी पै पा खाक होइ गुरसिखा रहरासि पछापै ।
On this Way of absolute humility and becoming dust of the feet of the Gum, the disciple learns the right conduct.
5 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੫
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ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਦਾਸ ਕਰਿ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਏ ਜਪੈ ਅਜਾਪੈ।
Maaiaa Vichi Udaasu Kari Aapu Gavaaay Japai Ajaapai.
माइआ विचि उदासु करि आपु गवाए जपै अजापै ।
This panth remains detached amidst maya and obliterating the sense of ego remembers the Lord spontaneously i.e. always rema
6 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੬
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ਲੰਘ ਨਿਕਥੈ ਵਰੈ ਸਰਾਪੈ ॥੧੯॥
Lagh Nikadai Varai Saraapai ॥19॥
लघ निकथै वरै सरापै ॥१९॥
It has gone far beyond the influence of boons and curses.
7 ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੨੩ ਪਉੜੀ ੧੯ ਪੰ. ੭
kds1980 - do you know the actual meanings of the verses?! The Gurus are not rejecting the Vedas and never did. They explain what spiritual life should really be like. I said, todays Sikhs are very easily influenced and manipulated The title of this post confirms so after all, whoin their right mind would even think for one moment that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was muslim?! However I know quite a few people who actually think this is true. Hence why I said some Sikhs although in the minority can be easily manipulated.
I did not say the Guru's were manipulated, but some information in the Granth has been changed as time has gone by people and some people interpret quotes according to what they think and take them literally without knowing the deeper meaning of them and take the meaning away from what the Guru's actually MEANT.
This is a prime example of the Granth being manipulated and changed by people. Think about it, do you really think any Guru would say its ok to kill an ani,al or any other living being?!!!! Seriously, read the Granth and UNDERSTAND it more importantly and spot the information that has been manipulated and changed by people as time has gone on to what they want to do. Sikhism outlined Karma, meditation, etc, do you really think they would have said its ok to kill?!
This is exactly what I mean. Also look at the Sikhs when they were made Sikhs by Guru Gobind Singh Ji - the diet was strictly vegetarian and no alcohol or toxic substances!!!!!!!!
As I said before, I myself am both Hindu and Sikh and therefore follow both religions deeply. As a result of studying and learning both religions, I have found that both religions are the same, however Sikhism has been manipulated on a huge scale now. The true meaning of the Gurus' Teachings have been distorted. If you actually look at Sikh Teachings, The Gurus do believe in Karma, Re-incarnation, not eating meat and meditation. This is the original teaching. This has been manipulated by muslims and Sikhs over time and some now seem to think these are not the teachings of Sikhism when in fact they are. All the Gurus believe in all these things and there yet more Spiritual similarities between the two religions, however due to hearsay people have started to drift away from the original message.
As far as meat is concerned, Guru Gobind Singh Ji created Sikhism and at the time of the Panj Pyare, they were initiated into the Khalsa and one of the terms was not to eat meat nor take toxic substances. People over time, again have manipulated this to achieve their personal gains. It is just common sense that any real religion would not allow the killing of any other being. Unfortunately some Sikhs are unable to see this.
In Sikhism one must meditate to attain Mukti. Hinduism is a very deep religion and has many deeper meanings than what meets the eye. The Vedic Scriptures that Hinduism is based on are the oldest known to humanity, so old they cannot be traced back to the date of origin. As time goes on, people detract from the right path.
There is no praying to idols because at the time, that is all people were doing and they forgot what the Real Teachings of Hinduism were and thought they didnt have to meditae if they went to the Mandir alone. This is why the Gurus said not to and just focus on what the real teachings are- meditation. Hindus do not worship idols, they simply pray to Gods and Goddesses in the image of God. Just as there are pictures of the Gurus in the Gurdwara, similarly Hindus also have pictures and idols, they are praying to God. This is fine as long as one also meditates, that is the message.
I believe if you love someone, you will always have pictures of them! Its natural, it doesnt mean you think that person is actually in the camera for example, thats another way of expressing your feelings.
Over time, there have been many reasons as to why people have changed the meaning fo religion, for division, political reason and this is human nature.
Thank you
NOT TRUE it does not say this anywhere. In fact the Gurus all say all these things are to be AVOIDED. Another example of manipulated information to be used by people to do what they want. It is disgusting to even associate these things with the teachings of the Gurus. Read up the Panj Pyare you will see for yourself. I will let you do your research. I am simply shocked to see how ignorant and manipulated people really are, its unbelievable.
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this is clear violation of TOS, so there really is no point in my continuing of this debate only to find it deleted tomorrow, good day
Hi Scarlet Pimpernel, I actually stumbled across this thread and post and felt I need to comment. I do not agree with what you say here
1) I think Verma1 is referring to the muslims causing problems in India, hence why Guru Nanak Dev Ji was creating an understanding between the 2 groups. Not mecca in trouble. The Guru travelled to various muslim religious places to undermine the practices they use and to prove how they conduct themselves is not religious at all. Including the situation with the feet, the Guru slept with His feet towards mecca and when told not to face his feet that way, whichever way he did, mecca would also rotate. There is no place to call Guru Nanak or any other Guru a muslim. Look at how they treated our Guru Gobind Singh Ji and his children. Its disgusting and a sin to call our Gurus muslim.
2) It is not something to be flattered about for Sikhs when muslims claim Guru Nanak Dev Ji was muslim. It would be ok if they were following his teachings but they are not, they are misleading Sikhs into thinking the Guru was a muslim so that they can convert Sikhs into muslims by making them believe this completely false information. Sikhs need to be educated that this is not true. Here, read this
http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000180.html
They would not accept if a Christian person was to say that Jesus was a muslim, so we should not be ok with this. Some Sikhs do not know the history and they may be seen as easy targets to manipulate. This is unacceptable. The Sikhs should not forget how the muslims treated our Gurus, to even think let alone say that the Guru was a muslim is intolerable and yes, insulting.
3) As a Sikh girl, I have met many muslims on the face of it who seem ok, but underneath they still make trouble. I have met someone posing as a Sikh guy, with a Khara, Sikh name, etc all to try and get Hindu and Sikh girls. They try and use the Sikh religion and falsly claim the Guru was a muslim to try and convert Hindus and Sikhs. There were also threats made to Gurdwaras about this, one should never forget this nor how they treated our Gurus in the past, its unforivable. Sikhs need to beware and know not to fall into the trap of this and need to be taught there is no way any of our Gurus were muslim, if anything they were against the muslims hence why Guru Gobind Singh Ji made the Khalsa to fight them.
I will not be on here much to reply and I really do not want to get into a heavy debate about this, but I agree with Verma1 and on a large scale most Sikhs do know this, but its good to educate Sikhs anyway.
Ambarasria, you are forgetting how the muslims treated our Gurus and hpw they still treat Hindus and Sikhs by trying to convert them. Its naive to think muslims and Sikhs are 'friends'. After the acts muslims committed, you cant blame people for hating them! Its still happening now, only now the whole world knows what muslims are like, before it was just India who knew.
I am a Sikh girl and have had plenty of bad experiences from muslim people. Dont be fooled.
Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims are all humans, anyone can give bad experience!
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