Hemkunt-Sikhs Chasing Shadows Of Brahmanwaad! | Page 6 | Sikh Philosophy Network
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Hemkunt-Sikhs Chasing Shadows Of Brahmanwaad!

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,175
50
Is celebrating the birth or death of a Guru in line with Bani anyway?, it seems to be me to be just another excuse for more ritualistic celebration that has little to do with any new learning or application,

Would the Gurus not be more happy that special days were celebrated with an extra effort to learn or apply the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
 

itsmaneet

SPNer
Jun 13, 2012
216
159
34
Nagpur, India
i REALLY love THIS ANSWER...THATS THE WAY TO GO FORWARD...IF ONLY ALL SIKHS TOOK THIS ATTITUDE......i guess since Sikhs love their Gurus all day long 365 days a year..why have any Gurpurab at all...end of story...IF mnay Sikhs bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji..why not allow bowing to dg as well..if sikhs can honour sri chand..why not prithia chand also..why his birthday is not a holiday ?? After all not much difference between the two..one disobeyed his father..the other did that and helped kill his brother too...so PC has a better chance of a Gurpurab cum holiday....and the tall tales..well believe in them too...they entertain well...ALL days are Gurpurabs...Yeah right....when we cannot even celebrate just ONE in our HOMELAND..good idea.icecreammunda
well....Gyani Ji's full of Gyan & i quit to him :)

By Gurpurab i meant to say - Why celebrate/remember Gurus ONLY 1 particular day whereas for a Sikh all days shud pass remembering the Guru like their Gurpurabs..

Secondly Gyani Ji wud never leave dragging in DG in any debate so i have nothing to say on tht but i have immense love & respect for DG ... thts all.

To Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, i bow coz it's our ONLY Guru & towards DG i bow as someone wud to his parents .... thts it, well am not sure though Gyani Ji or other anti DG bow even to their parents or not ...

Admin Note: Please discuss the topic not people discussing the topic. Thank you, Gurfateh!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,175
50
It is interesting to note that we discuss bowing to Gurus, parents, DG, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but as always, Creator hardly gets a look in.

Maybe we should be reminded that at the end of the day it is Creator we worship, through our thoughts, actions and speech, and even then, not for personal gain, but to find contenment and purpose.

The Gurus were a torch, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji a shining light, but we overlook what is actually being illuminated and concentrate on the object of illumination.

Sorry Veerji, but to put into context, the DG is a flashing amber light, whatever it illuminates, it does so with a tinge of colour that does not encapsulate the brilliance of the same bathed in a clear white light.
 
Last edited:

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
The DG is part of a CHAIN...it cannot be left out of any and all discussions about Sikhs/Gurmatt/History/gurbani/SGGS/Guru/Gurbani/Punjab/SGPC/Takhats/SRM...
If DG is not "discussed" then a Missing link scenario comes into play...

The DG link begins NOT with Guur Gobind Singh ji..BUT with the FAKE Bhai bala janamsakhi in which a FAKE Bhai bala is introduced. This was popularised as a Janamsakhi that GURU ANGAD JI authorised...which means that GURU Nanak ji passed on His TREASURES to His successor leaving lots of "Blanks" which a FAKE and FICTITIOUS Character Bhai bala is aksed to fill in..while the Authentic sikh literature never even mentions Bhai bala even once -ref Bhai gurdass Jis vaars. Linguistic internal evidence shows that this Fake Janamsakhi was written many many DECADES after Guru nanak jis demise. Its Language is simialr to The SECOND FAKE Book..GURBILAS Patshai CHHEVIN which ahs been utterly discredited and the source of much DISGUSTING LIES about Guur hargobind Sahib jee..the Link then leads to Gurbials Patshai Dasveen,,and many suspect Hukmanmahs and Rehitnamahs that are so VIOLENTLY ANTI MUSLIM that its clear they are the work of the BHAGWA INFILTRATES as the SIKH GURUS had Far MORE MUSLIM helpers and aid than Hindus anyday...Baba Budhu Sha sacriifced his 4 SONS and 700 mureeds at Bhanganni...a INCIDENT that even the Bachitar natak fails to give mention of....and what takes the CAKE is the 41st TOTALLY FAKE VAAR allegedly written by BHAI GURDASS JI and added to his 40 Vaars !! For ages Sikhs swalloed this Vaar hook line and sinker..even when it says utterly disgusting LIES about How Guru Gobind Singh ji and His Khalsa DEMOLISHED MOSQUES, SLAUGHTERED MUSLIMS, BANNED NIMAAZ etc and stopped Islam form being practised !! NONE ever questioned thsi Vaar...and How BHAI GURDASS JI who DIED LONG before the Khalsa could write about that PERIOD ??

Instead Sikhs became APOLOGETIC..and began to INVENT a person called Bhai GURDASS SINGH..blah blah blah...BUT even THIS failed to satisfactorily answer why this so called Bhai Gurdass SINGH failed to Mention his SINGH, failed to mention why his ONE VAAR was added to the 40 vaars BOOK ?? and why he didnt write a NOTE explaining this. Even a THIEF when caught will attempt some sort of answers excuses..not this fake BGSINGH !! who is NOT found in History at all and is a Figment of the Imagination. NEXT comes the DG...the Mountain of LIES....this is why the DG cannot escape being mentioned (dragged in is not my words)...its part and parcel of a HUGE LIE form Guru nanak jis time to SABOTAGE the Gummatt Nirmal panth of Guru nanak Ji sahib. SRI CHAND is also part of this bachitar natak play !!!..a very important part indeed..to LEGITIMISE the Alternative Lineage....
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
IF an Entire Fake Vaar can be ADDED to the 40 vaars of Bhai Gurdass Ji without a question for cneturies...the fake Raagmaala was added in the same way....only difference is Guru Arjun ji made the SGGS Fool Proof...no one could add or subtract a single Dandee..so of necessity the raagmalal has to be added OUTSIDE of the SGGS...BUT the wya the Last vaar was added to Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars Pothi and how inspite of it being so OBVIOULSY Fake addition..no one questioned it at all..not Sant singh Maskeen nor any others...??? raises doubts about HUMANS being BHULLANHAAR ?? Now IF these great Scholars failed to Notice that POOCHH attached to Bhai guradss Ji...why not they also failed to notice many other things now ....QUICK SAND AHEAD....!!!
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Harry Ji..calling the Creator.."poor creator"..like as in Vichara creator is an insult to HIM..cease and desist Ji !! You are hurting religious sentiments !!
Dhadriwallah got into similar problems when he arranged for the Panj Piayars to be standing behind HIMSELF doing Kirtan...and after a long long time..he said..EH Vicharey Panj Piayare kharreh kahrreh hoyeh thhak gayeh honnegh..OH these POOR FIVE..standing for so long..must be tired...People took exception to the fake sympathy the words Vichareh/vicharah..POOR evokes...!!!peacesignpeacesignpeacesignpeacesignpeacesign
 

itsmaneet

SPNer
Jun 13, 2012
216
159
34
Nagpur, India
IF an Entire Fake Vaar can be ADDED to the 40 vaars of Bhai Gurdass Ji without a question for cneturies...the fake Raagmaala was added in the same way....only difference is Guru Arjun ji made the SGGS Fool Proof...no one could add or subtract a single Dandee..so of necessity the raagmalal has to be added OUTSIDE of the SGGS...BUT the wya the Last vaar was added to Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars Pothi and how inspite of it being so OBVIOULSY Fake addition..no one questioned it at all..not Sant singh Maskeen nor any others...??? raises doubts about HUMANS being BHULLANHAAR ?? Now IF these great Scholars failed to Notice that POOCHH attached to Bhai guradss Ji...why not they also failed to notice many other things now ....QUICK SAND AHEAD....!!!
Gyani Ji,

There has been 3-4 Sikhs attached with various Gurus with the name Gurdas. The one with Guru Gobind Singh Ji was Bhai Gurdas Singh & not the one Bhai Gurdas with Guru Arjan Dev Sahib .....

Plz go thru the following link which also contains 41st Vaar -
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bhai_Gurdas_Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
The SikhWiki is not the most reliable source but still ..the very first para tells the entire story..Quote:
Bhai Gurdas Singh is said to be a contemporary of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He is not to be confused with Bhai Gurdas Ji, who was the scribe of the Adi Granth under Guru Arjan Dev Ji. Bhai Gurdas Singh's work was added as a "supplement" to Bhai Gurdas Ji's 40 Vaars, and is known as the "41st Vaar." Bhai Gurdas Singh Ji's work contains the famous Shabad:
<dl><dd>'ਵਾਹ ਵਾਹ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਆਪੇ ਗ੝ਰ ਚੇਲਾ' </dd><dd>Vah Vah Gobind Singh Ape Gur Chela </dd><dd> Wow! Wow! Gobind Singh, himself the Guru and the disciple. </dd><dt>
</dt><dt>1. Bhai Gurdas the ORIGINAL uses his name correctly...BUT the SECOND decides to DROP the "SINGH"....why ??? SINGH is a recent title bestowed by Guru Gobind Singh ji ..and ALL those hwo became SINGH carry this name with the HONOUR it deserves..BUT not this unknown fellow...</dt></dl>2. Not only does he drop the SINGH to "merge" with an EARLIER FAMOUS Bhai gurdass Ji..he also "supplements" or adds his Vaar to the 40 Vaar POTHI of Bhai Gurdass Ji.


3. He Only wrote this Just ONE VAAR...found as you said in the Sarb LOH Granth (the THIRD GRANTH held in great esteem by the Nihungs and parkash and read by them as much as the DG and SGGS equally. The SARB LOH GRANTH is NOT written by Bhai Gurdass SINGH....yet his vaar is found there and also "supplemented" to Bhai Gurdass Jis Vaars..and No. 41 FOLLOWS as NORMALLY as Vaar 40 ends..Giving absolutely NO INDICATION whatsoever that the AUTHOR has CHANGED and is NOT the same as those of the previous 40 Vaars.


Now what does this TELL YOU ??


Exactly the Same TRICK ha s been employed by the miscreants who "Supplemented" the SGGS with the fake RAAGMAALA. Interestingly the Raagmala author is secret and not revealed..people are meant to ASSUME its a GURU/Bhagta just as the 41st vaar is meant to be ASSUMED as authored by the Most RESPECTABLE and well known Sikh historian Bhai gurdass whose Vaars are sanctioned to be READ as Kirtan !! Interestingly the Exact same Raagmala is word for word in another Granth as well...and over there its NUMBERED CORRECTLY and NOT simply [1] as in SGGS !!! The fake author has to numebr all the lines [1] because he doenst know what to do...ha ha..IF he numbers them according to original source it will be found out..so he took the easy way out..and even more INTERESTINGLY the Benti KABIOBACH Chaupaii taken from the END of Charitro Pakhyaans has been RENUMBERED when added to Rehrass !! So this "Pick and choose" add supplement' and renumber trick has been widely used...to confuse/hide/mingle truth with Fiction and conceal.


Just show me just ONE EXAMPLE from any book/literature in the world where such "tricks" are done...its like ME writing a shitty play and Supplementing it to the Works of Shakespeare...and when caught declare my name to be Shakespeare SINGH !! Who will BUY this and swallow the story hook line and sinker.. ??? Answer: ...The SIKHS..who might begin to regard Works of Shakespeare + Singh as Holy Plays !!!


Its Plain..first the trick was used with bhai Gurdass jis vaars being supplemented..then sggs was also supplemented..then one whole granth dg was made supplementary reading. The fake supplementary author uses the name GURDASS ONLY..its the Singhs trying to be so apologetic that invented the SINGH...no proof of him ever using the name SINGH anywhere. No amount of Twist and Turn can make this leaky story stick...


READ the paras 15 , 16 etc of the Supplementary vaar...Clear LIES, almost Vulgar and clearly ANTI MUSLIM and Anti Islam to point being racist. Under the New Laws passed in India this can be easily brought under "HURTING RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS" of Muslims.
Sikhs are so gullible..the enemy says a few wonderful words..WAHO WAHO Gobind Singh and uses this SUGAR to coat the POISON later on..no one bothers...they just keep on singing waho waho..
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
One Last telling ID of all such Fakes...the AUTHOR again and again and AGAIN claims those who READ this Vaar will GET Gurus Blessings, get all his hearts desires fulfilled etc etc..Man ki Ichhah..man ki muraad pooree etc etc...
This CLAIM is REPEATEDLY made in the entire DG..at each section end this claim is there..

However in the SGGS...no such claims are made..because MERE READING doesnt incur nay benefit and that the Guiding Principle of SGGS/Gurmatt/Gurbani....BUT in Hinduism..reading gintee minttees, time and time again is recommended highly to get benefits...NOT A SIKH philosophy at all.

How to distinguish PIRACY GOODS from ORIGINAL GOODS...or how to differentiate Fake CURRENCY form Original...guidelines also apply here...
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
And heres the "missing link"....Cite any real HISTORICAL GURDWARA hwere the "Central Govt/DELHI GOVT" provides even ONE KROR.....and see why 75 KRORS approved for this MYTHICAL PLACE....

Centre approves Hemkunt Sahib ropeway project

hemkunt sahib

Friday, September, 21 2012 - 13:33

CHANDIGARH: For convenience of the pilgrims, the Centre government
has given its approval for ropeway from Gurdwara Gobind Dham to
Hemkunt Sahib. The project will cost around Rs 75 crore and expected
to finish in 2014 before the commencement of Hemkunt Sahib yatra in summers.


In the first phase of the project, the ropeway will be operational
till Gurdwara Gobind Dham which will be later extended to Gobind
Ghat. At present, the pilgrims can also commute from Gobind Ghat to
Gobind Dham through chopper services which cost Rs 3,500 per person.

Hemkunt Sahib is one of the most revered places in Sikhism where
tenth Sikh guru, Guru Gobind Singh meditated before his incarnation
as the Sikh guru. Every year, the doors of Hemkunt Sahib open for the
Sikh pilgrims on June 1 who can visit till October 5.

Later, the Gurdwara is kept closed during the winters as the
environmental conditions are not suitable for human visit and
survival as the gurdwara is located at an altitude of 4,632.96 metres
(15,200.0 ft).

1. Darbar Sahib Amrtisar.. Darbar sahib patna, Khadoor Sahib, Goindwaal sahib, Damdama Sahib...etc etc havent received nay Funding ?? ever ?? READ BETWEEN THE LINES....:whatzpointkudi::whatzpointsing::whatzpointkudi::whatzpointsing:swordfight:mundaviolin:
 

itsmaneet

SPNer
Jun 13, 2012
216
159
34
Nagpur, India
'Hemkunt' i tried to explain earlier referring the book of Prof. Sahib Singh. According to him Guruji refers "Hemkunt" to his pre-birth condition in mother's womb. According to him he felt the same delight being in there as King Pandu felt while meditating in his mother's womb. Guruji says he alongwith his father & mother enjoyed meditation while he was in 'Hemkunt'.

Now, if someone gets the meaning wrong that doesn't mean Guruji wrote anything wrong. I can't even imagine Guruji would write anything wrong BUT it's another thing that we fail so many times to understand so why people blame Guruji?

There are many places where Sikhs misinterpret the meaning like -

1. "Begumpura Sehar Ko Naaon ....." by Ravidas Ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Sikhs, agyanis like me refer it to a physical place but 'Begumpura' is actually an awastha
"condition" where there's immense peace & happiness.

2. "Sachkhan Wasse Niramkar...." many wud start searching a place named Sachkhand & if
not found infact would create one. Again 'Sanchkhan' is an awastha...

So, where's the fault? i think it's in our understanding that we agyanis misinterpret Gurbani & try act over smart. But one thing amazing is the ANTI DG people would keep looking at even the minutest of opportunity to defame DG. DG is a respectable Granth of our Father & will remain so forever !!!!

Gurfateh !!
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jul 4, 2004
7,678
14,326
71
KUALA LUMPUR MALAYSIA
Itamaneet Ji..Its actually the KUgyani_KubrahmKUgyanis Kumahapurashs, KUSANTS etc who Take the DOWN TO EARTH simplified "meanings" and parchaar them becasue they claim Gurbani is TOO DIFFICULT to understand by the Layman like me and you. So they give "directions" to Begam Pura just like they give directions to Salabat Pura, Brahmpura or Ahmed Pura or Kuala LampURA..or SINGAPURA !! So if they see "GURCHARAN" in SGGS they say Thats a reference to MY MOTHER..Gurcahran kaur...or MY Father Gurcharan Singh...or PRITAM..is the Pritam Singh who used to serve roti to Waddeh baba Ji isherdaas Brahmgyani..thats why we END up having "SACHKHAND ROOMS" in Gurdawaras...and SACH KHANDS underground where the Waddeh baba Ji sleeps off after a Hard Days Night OUT..and people go IN to matha tek to slippers, juttees, cholas, beds, arm chairs of waddeh babajis after having Promised to be amrtidharee or nitnemi etc...SGGS is GYAAN GURU..LIGHT of the WORLD....not a simplified Longmans dictionary for kids...Gurfateh.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

ਜੈਤਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੩ ॥ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

Jaitsree Mehla 5 Ghar 3 Ek Oangkar Satgur Parsad
.

ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨੈ ਕਵਨੁ ਈਹਾ ਜਗਿ ਮੀਤੁ ॥

Koee Janeiy Kvn Eha Jug Meet
.

Koee – One...

SPN on Facebook

...
Top