Guru Ji's Paintings In The House: Admire As Art, Show Respect, Or Should Not Keep!

Aug 29, 2010
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AMBARSARIA Ji,
You have utterly misunderstood my presenttion.I have already acknowledged my ignorance about the the significance of Khanda.This is not my explanation This I got it from Googles site.
I stand for my personal views that the image of Khanda can not be considered as MOORATi as per considerations from Gurbani.
So I asked Tejwant Singh ji accordingly to share his knowledge so that I learn Something new regarding this.
Thirdly I am a purely technical person and have very little interest in any type of History I openly admit this.
I think you can consider my this explanation more correctly .
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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Prakash.s.bagga ji no problem. Sorry if there was any confusion.

I did not want readers to believe that we have an answer to this question, origin of Khanda symbology (composite depiction of two kirpans, chakar and khanda). Your explanation makes sense and I understand it but the issue is to find a definitive reference for it. I will probably start a different thread regarding such.

Thanks for your great help in Gurbani guidance.

Regards and yourself is always held in high regards by me even if at times it does not read such. That is my weakness and not your fault.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Tejwant Singh

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Khanda TEJWANT SINGH Ji.....I got like this
b_khanda.gif
The Khanda is the symbol of the Sikhs, as the Cross is to Christians or the Star of David is to Jews. It reflects some of the fundamental concepts of Sikhism. The symbol derives its name from the double-edged sword (also called a Khanda) which appears at the center of the logo. This double-edged sword is a metaphor of Divine Knowledge, its sharp edges cleaving Truth from Falsehood. The circle around the Khanda is the Chakar. The Chakar being a circle without a beginning or and end symbolizes the perfection of God who is eternal. The Chakar is surrounded by two curved swords called Kirpans. These two swords symbolize the twin concepts of Meeri and Peeri - Temporal and Spiritual authority introduced by Guru Hargobind. They emphasize the equal emphasis that a Sikh must place on spiritual aspirations as well as obligations to society.


Prakash.S.Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for the post.I know Sikh.org has that as the explanation and as you also mentioned before that our only symbol is . Nothing else and we should encourage all to use this as our only symbol. The beauty of Sikhi is that our Gurus kept everything in open, nothing hidden.

I have also read the similar explanations in different ways and also heard them mentioned many times in different ways.

My simple question are:

1.What is its origins?

2.Who was the designer?

3.When did this Khanda begin? (Actually the only Khanda is the two edged sword in the middle).

From my own research I have not found anything but I have been told that this Khanda is the invention of the Brits as were the different tribal regiments in the armed forces to keep some kind of unity. The Brits created 2 Sikh regiments: Sikh for the higher caste ones and Silkli for the lower caste ones. All soldiers had to belong to these castes/ tribes but the officers could be from any background.

This Khanda
A6k7N1KOM80HAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC
symbol is many times confused with the Iranian symbol.

Talking about the Iranian symbol: The following has some interesting
titbits.

Regrards.

Tejwant Singh


http://iranpoliticsclub.net/flags/IRI/index.htm
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pictorial History of Iranian Flags
Iran Flags' History

a book by Ahreeman X
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chapter Nine
Interim Government and Islamic Republic of Iran's Flags and Insignias
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Flag of The Interim Government
Transitional Period 1979 - 1980
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Origins of Islamic Republic of Iran's Flag
Roots and Meaning of the Islamic Republic of Iran's Flag
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ruhollah Khomeini had Indian roots. The emblem which he chosen for Islamic Republic's Flag, originally has been copied from The Indian Sikh Emblem! So basically he revised and minor-changed the old Sikh Logo and placed it on the Persian Flag. This is the ultimate insult to an 8000 years old Persian Culture! Not to mention that Khomeini was a thief (stealing Sikh's logo), yet he was also a traitor (by placing the Sikh Logo on the Persian Banner! Khomeini, Mullahs, Hezbollah, Muslim and Islamic Republic have no identity, even their official emblem is stolen from Indian Sikhs![/FONT]

f100%20IRI%20Sikh%20khalistan%20National.JPG

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Indian Sikh khalistan National Flag
(Roots of The Islamic Republic Emblem and Flag)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
f101%20IRI%20Sikh%20khalistan%20Republic%20in%20Exile.JPG

Indian Sikh khalistan Republic in Exile
(Roots of The Islamic Republic Emblem and Flag)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
f102%20IRI%20Sikh%20Religious%20Banner.JPG

Indian Sikh Triangle Religious Banner
(Roots of The Islamic Republic Emblem and Flag)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
f103%20IRI%20Sikh%20Triangle.gif

Indian Sikh Triangle Flag
(Roots of The Islamic Republic Emblem and Flag)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
f104%20Flag%20IRI%20Sikh%20logo.gif

Indian Sikh Emblem
(Roots of The Islamic Republic Emblem and Flag)
[/FONT]

f105%20IRI%20Allah.JPG

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Flag of Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI)
The IRI Allah Flag (1980 - ?)
The Allah Emblem of the IRI Flag is a revised version of the Indian Sikh Logo. Khomeini, Mullahs, Hezbollah and Muslim had turned the Sikh Logo to an Islamic Allah! The Spider-looking Emblem put in the center of the Iranian Flag (instead of Lion and Sun) is in fact, the name of the Arabo-Muslim God, Allah.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Any way you look at it, this is an insult to Iran and Iranians! The Emblem is an Arabo-Indian Logo: Indian, because it has been stolen from Indian Sikh Flag by Khomeini; and Arab, because it is the name of Allah, the Arabo-Muslim God! Why is this abomination emblem on the glorious Persian Flag? Because our nation in under the occupation of AIOG (Arabo-Islamic Occupational Government).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Muslim had kept the Green, White and Red; yet, added 2 horizontal stripes of writings, one on top (on the edge of green and white) and one on bottom (on the edge of red and white)! The writing strips are in Arabic and it reads:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Allah O Akbar (Repeatedly) which translates to "Allah is Great"!
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How sad is it for Iranians with 8000 years of culture to presently, have a flag which does not even represents Iran?! A Flag with Indiano-Sikh Logo and Arabo-Islamic words, reading Allah is Great! Soon or late, true Iranians need to decide between "Islam" or "Iran"? You are either Muslim or Iranian, but cannot be both, so which is it? You are either an Iranian or you are an Arab Worshiper (Muslim), so which is it?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
f110%20IRI%20Allah%20Emblem.jpg

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islamic Republic of Iran, Allah Emblem
(Arabo-Islamic Spider-looking Object!)
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
f113%20IRI%20Qods%20Logo.jpg

Islamic Republic of Iran, Qods Emblem
Islamic Revolutionary Guards
Qods Special Forces Units
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]n[/FONT]
 
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Ambarsaria

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Tejwant Singh ji thanks for the Iranian references. It appears we have agents planted everywhere lol.

When are we going to take over the world and create the "New Sikh Order" for all to love creation that is all around and live in consonance with all from the inside out.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Aug 29, 2010
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TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
Well it is really interesting information from your side, I am sure you must be having Military Background in your life period.These Symbols are more for political assertion rather than spritual tools.

In SGGS we do find the use of the word refering to Khanda.Here the word Khanda is a metaphor to represent Neutral Thinking of the mind to understand every positive or negatives as same.That is What I gather from the context of Gurbani.

Thanking you for sharing the views ,
With regards

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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My veer Prakash.s.bagga ji may be you are getting tired of my (hugs) mundahug, I totally agree with the following in your post,

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we do find the use of the word refering to Khanda.Here the word Khanda is a metaphor to represent Neutral Thinking of the mind to understand every positive or negatives as same.That is What I gather from the context of Gurbani.
Thanks for your inputs.

Do visit the links I posted earlier, as these elaborate and give other Gurbani references too along the same lines.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Harry Haller

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beautiful thread, wonderful posts, for the record, I think anyone who uses a photo to focus their devotion is doing nothing wrong at all, having Guru's photographs is a reminder of the human being we wish to emulate, putting hands together is a mark of respect, the prayer itself is directed at Creator.

I cannot add much to this thread but it is wonderful to see you three giants in harmony
 

Tejwant Singh

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TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji we do find the use of the word refering to Khanda.Here the word Khanda is a metaphor to represent Neutral Thinking of the mind to understand every positive or negatives as same.That is What I gather from the context of Gurbani.

Parkash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am aware of that but our discussion was strictly on the origins and the true meaning of the Khanda as insignia. As mentioned before, Khanda is actually what is in the middle- the double edged sword.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Ambarsaria

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Parkash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am aware of that but our discussion was strictly on the origins and the true meaning of the Khanda as insignia. As mentioned before, Khanda is actually what is in the middle- the double edged sword.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
Tejwant Singh ji we can perhaps start to build a date froward for it. The following painting is Dated at samat Guru Nanak ji ka 408. So I assume it put the date as 1877 (1469 +408). Worth noting that there is no Khanda symbol shown by the painter,

empire_37.jpg


I also found another post on another forum which appears very plausible and it is quoted below,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Like many cultural ideas and items introduced by the Singh Sabha movement the Khanda is another symbol introduced in Sikhism at about the same time by modifying the Ajgaha used by Nihangs on the front of their dastars.

Ajgaha is a steel circle or chakar with a double-edged sword standing on its top with the bottom of the handle touching the top edge of the circle.

The innovators belonging I think to Panch Khalsa Diwan and later followers of Sant Randhir Singh ji modified the Ajgaha by lowering the double-edged sword to be in the middle of the chakar, the lower tip of the handle touching the lower edge of chakar. Two swords were added around the chakar khanda combination. This was adopted by the Sikh authorites and added to the Jhande Bunge near Akal Takhat in the sri Harmandir Sahib at the junction of the crossbars supporting the two nishan sahibs following a lightening strike on the Nishan Sahibs.

The Ajgaha symbol represented the Sikh moto "Degh Tegh Fateh". The Degh is represented by the chakar circle representing the rim of the Degh used for cooking food and the Tegh of course is represented by the Khanda on top of the Degh rim.

In the old paintings of Nishan sahibs we only see the Khanda as such that too on the top of the pole as it is now seen in the Nishan Sahib throughout the world. We do not see the modern Khanda printed on the furled cloth as we do now.

Humbly
Serjinder Singh
The true Khanda of course required tall, strong Sikhs with heavier build to carry and use it. It perhaps was the strongest and heaviest hand held armament during the Sikh battles and wars pre Maharajah Ranjit Singh and the misls.

pic16.jpg


British Military badge for Sikh Army contingents.

19thcentury_3.jpg


So all signs point towards the period of Singh Sabha Movement time frames to define the shape of the Khanda as it is today or early 1900s. There appear close similies but not the exact arrangement as it is today in old artifacts.

The interpretations touch on two extremes of all military weaponry/arms to spiritual symbology discussed earlier in this thread.

Hope it is of help.

Sat Sri Akal
 

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Ambarsaria

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Thanks Veer Bhagat Singh ji I watched the whole video.

Very nicely done. So in this video Davinder.S.Toor alludes that the early spotting of the modern Khanda symbol was around 1903.

People looking for this part can go forward to 39' 35" onwards. I would highly recommend all to watch this video.

wwwsikhphilosophynetscreencapture2011-11-3-19-55-29.png


Sat Sri Akal.
 
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