Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba Visits The US - Details Of Vichar

[vijaydeep Singh]

I would like to inform you all brethren of USA and Canada, that S. Gurcharanjeet Singh J Lamba is there in USA. His contact details are given below.

GSLAMBA
GURCHARANJIT SINGH LAMBA, Advocate
Editor - Sant Sipahi [Estd.1945]
Camp Office: USA
Phone: 001-973-699-0950
001-973-273-1751
001-201-203-8769

If some one wants to gain the knowledge of Shri Dasham Granth Sahib Ji, then he can contact Sirdar Sahib, likewise if some one wants to work with Sirdar Sahib to preach Gurmat and counter Kala Afghanaism , then he/she too can contact Sirdar Sahib.

This information could be passed on further to the friends and like minded people.

regards
vd Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Vijaydeep Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

if some one wants to work with Sirdar Sahib to preach Gurmat and counter Kala Afghanaism , then he/she too can contact Sirdar Sahib.

A Sikh is not a bigot but it is sad to notice your blatant bigotry. You may not agree with someone who is a Sikh but to call his views as Kala Afghanaism as if it were a separate religion or cult shows all about your lack of Sikhi principles and thoughts.

Following is one more sign of your bigotry which also shows your own personal ism.

This information could be passed on further to the friends and like minded people.

So you mean only those who agree with you are of your ilk and others who do not are not?

Thanks for exposing yourself and who you really are.You have just confirmed my suspicions about you and your non Sikh motives.
What a shame and a disgraceful act!

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The following is an even "finer " example of what SIKHS can "learn" from him and likeminded peoples...

ਗੁਰਚਰਨਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਲਾਂਬਾ ਦੇ ਲੇਖ ਦੀ ਪੜਚੋਲ​

-ਹਰਨੇਕ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਿਊਜੀਲੈਂਡ​

ਗੁਰਚਰਨਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਲਾਂਬਾ ਦੇ ਲੇਖ “ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ-ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਹਰਭਜਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਜਬਾਨੀ” ਦੀ ਪੜਚੋਲ​

ਪਿੱਛਲੇ ਦਿਨੀਂ ‘ਸੰਤ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ’ ਮਾਸਕ ਪੱਤਰ ਦੀ ਵੈੱਬਸਾਈਟ ਤੇ ਇੱਕ ਲੇਖ ਪੜਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਦਾ ਸਿਰਲੇਖ ਸੀ “ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ-ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਹਰਭਜਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਜਬਾਨੀ”। ਇਹ ਲੇਖ ਗੁਰਚਰਨਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਲਾਂਬਾ, ਐਡੀਟਰ ਮਾਸਕ ਪੱਤਰ ਸੰਤ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ, ਦੁਆਰਾ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ। ਲੇਖ ਨੂੰ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਦੋ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਅਹਿਮ ਸਵਾਲ ਉੱਠੇ। ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਵਾਲ ਹੈ, ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਹਰਭਜਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਸਬੰਧਤ ਤੇ ਦੂਜਾ ਹੈ, ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦੇ ਬਾਰੇ । ਮੈਨੂੰ ਲੱਗਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਲੇਖਕ ਨੇ ਇਨਾਂ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਹੀ ਅਨਿਆਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਲਈ ਇਸ ਬਾਰੇ ਵਿਚਾਰ-ਚਰਚਾ ਕਰਨੀ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਲਗਦੀ ਹੈ। ਵੈਸੇ ਵੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਹਰ ਘਰ ਵਿਚ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੀ ਹੈ, ਸੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੋਲ ਵੀ ਹੈ। ਚੰਗੇ ਭਾਗਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਹਰਭਜਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਿਤਾਬਾਂ ਵੀ ਮੇਰੇ ਕੋਲ ਹਨ, ਜਿਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਮੇਰਾ ਇਹ ਕੰਮ ਸੌਖਾ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ।
ਆਉ ! ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਬਾਰੇ ਵਿਚ, ਸਬੰਧਤ ਲੇਖ ਦੇ ਆਧਾਰ ’ਤੇ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰੀਏ। ਲੇਖਕ ਨੇ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਵਿਚ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਵਧੀਆ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਜਾਣ ਪਹਿਚਾਣ ਕਰਵਾਈ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਫਿਰ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਮਹਾਨ ਸ਼ਖਸੀਅਤ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਮੰਨਦੀ ਸੀ। ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਵੀ ਦੱਸਿਆ ਹੈ, ਮੇਰੇ ਕੋਲ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕਿਤਾਬ, “ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਾਰੇ ਚੋਣਵੇਂ ਲੇਖ” ਹੈ, ਅਤੇ ਮੈਂ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਪੜਿਆ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਨੂੰ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਥੋੜੀ ਜਿੰਨੀ ਵੀ ਸਮਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਇਨਸਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਸੌਖਿਆਂ ਹੀ ਸਮਝ ਆ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਬਾਰੇ ਵਿਚ, ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਿਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ ਸਨ।
ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿਉਂ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਇੰਨੇ ਸਮਝਦਾਰ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਹੋਏ ਵੀ, ਕਦੇ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨਤ ਸ਼ਖਸੀਅਤਾਂ ਦਾ ਨਾਂ ਵਰਤ ਕੇ, ਕਦੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਅਤੇ ਕਦੇ ਨਿੱਤਨੇਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਬਾਣੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਆੜ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਜਨ-ਸਧਾਰਨ ਕਿਰਤੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਨੂੰ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਉਣ ’ਤੇ ਤੁਲੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ।
ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਦੇ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਪੰਨਾ 9 ਤੇ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਿਚ 70 ਕੁ ਪੰਨੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਆਸ਼ੇ ਤੇ ਪੂਰੇ ਉੱਤਰਦੇ ਹਨ “ਬਾਕੀ ਸਭ ਰਚਨਾਵਾਂ ਕਾਲਪਨਿਕ ਮਿਥਿਹਾਸ ਹਨ। ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਲ ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਆਪਸ ਵਿਚ ਵੀ ਇਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਮਿਲਦੀਆਂ। ਚਲਾਕ ਸਾਕਤ ਕਵੀਆਂ, ਖਾਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਸ਼ਿਆਮ ਨੇ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖ ਬਾਣੀ ਅਥਵਾ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਚਾਲਾਕੀ ਨਾਲ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਬਾਣੀ ਜਣਾ ਕੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਇਸ਼ਟ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹਿਆ”।
ਅੱਗੇ ਚਲ ਕੇ, ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਵਿਵਾਦ ਬਾਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਜੀ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਨ। “ਸੋ ਇਹ ਵਿਵਾਦ ਇੱਕੋ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਮੁੱਕ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਾਲੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਕਸਵੱਟੀ ਤੇ ਪਰਖ ਕਰੀਏ ਅਤੇ ਦੁੱਧ ਦਾ ਦੁੱਧ ਤੇ ਪਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਕਰੀਏ”, ਤੇ ਤਰਲਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋਏ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਨ “ਆਸ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਸ ਦਾਸਰੇ ਵਲੋਂ ਲ਼ਿਆ ਗਿਆ ਤਰਲਾ ਪੰਥ ਦੀ ਯਕਜਹਿਤੀ ਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਦੀ ਕਲਾ ਲਈ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ,ਵਰਨਾ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਮਨੌਤਾਂ ਨੇ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਕਿਸੇ ਪਾਸੇ ਜੋਗਾ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਛੱਡਣਾ”। ਇਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਬਾਕੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਆਪ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਨਿਰਣਾ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੇ ਹੋ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਾਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਕੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਸਨ।
ਕਿਤਾਬ ਦੇ ਅਖੀਰ ਵਿਚ, ਅੰਤਿਕਾ-4 ਵਿਚ “ਕੁਝ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੋਪਾਖਿਯਾਨ ਬਾਰੇ” ਪੰਨਾ 165 ਤੋਂ 167 ’ਤੇ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਇਨਾਂ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਸਵਾਲਾਂ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ ਬੜੇ ਥੋੜੇ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਦੇ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ। (ਚਲੋ ਇਕ ਗੱਲ ਤਾਂ ਠੀਕ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਨਾਂ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਵਧੀਆ ਵਿਦਵਾਨ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ, ਬੇਨਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਵੀਰ ਜੀਓ! ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਹਰਭਜਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਾ ਹੀ ਸੁਝਾਅ ਮੰਨ ਲਉ।) ਪੰਨਾ 165 ਤੇ ਇਕ ਸਵਾਲ ਦਾ ਜਵਾਬ, (ਜੋ ਕਿ ਸ਼੍ਰੋ. ਗੁ. ਪ੍ਰ. ਕਮੇਟੀ ਦੇ ਮੀਤ ਸਕੱਤਰ ਸ੍ਰ. ਗੁਰਬਖਸ਼ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਲੋਂ 3 ਅਗਸਤ 1973 ਨੂੰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਗਿਆ), ਅੰਕਿਤ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਹੈ “ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੋਪਾਖਿਯਾਨ, ਜੋ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਵਿਚ ਅੰਕਿਤ ਹੈ, ਇਹ ਦਸਮੇਸ਼ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ। ਇਹ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮਿਥਿਹਾਸਕ ਸਾਖੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਉਤਾਰਾ ਹੈ”।
ਆਪਣੀ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਦੀ ਸਮਾਪਤੀ ਕਰਦਿਆਂ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਇਕ ਨੋਟ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ। ਪੰਨਾ 167- “ਨੋਟ-2.- ਜਦ ਕੋਈ ਵੀਰ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਉਤੇ ਬਹਿਸ ਕਰਨ ਦਾ ਹਠ ਕਰੇ ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਇਕ ਹੀ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਿਆ ਕਰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਮਾਈਆਂ, ਬੀਬੀਆਂ, ਮਰਦਾਂ ਦੀ ਸਾਂਝੀ ਸੰਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਪੰਜ-ਦਸ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਸੰਗਤ ਨੂੰ ਸਮਝਾ ਕੇ ਪਾਠ ਕਰ ਦੇਣ, ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਉਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿਚਾਰਾਂ ਦਾ ਹਾਮੀ ਹੋ ਜਾਵਾਂਗਾ। ਉਹ ਇਸ ਸ਼ਰਤ ਤੇ ਨੱਠ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਹਾਰ ਮੰਨ ਲੈਂਦਾ, ਜਾਂ ਚੁੱਪ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਉੱਠ ਕੇ ਚਲਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਜਿਸ ਰਚਨਾ ਦਾ ਪਾਠ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਾਂਝੀ ਸੰਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੇ, ਉਸਨੂੰ ਨਾਨਕ-ਰੂਪ,ਗੋਬਿੰਦ-ਰੂਪ, ਕਲਗੀਆਂ ਵਾਲੇ, ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦੇ ਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਕਿਉਂ ਜੋੜਦੇ ਹੋ, ਤੇ ਸਾਰਾ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਉਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਦੱਸ ਕੇ ਉਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਪਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਅਨਰਥ, ਪਾਪ ਕਿਉਂ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ ? ਵਾਹ ! ਕੈਸਾ ਸਿਲਾ ਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਤਗਿਅਤਾ ਹੈ, ਉਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਅਦੁੱਤੀ ਉਪਕਾਰਾਂ ਦੀ? ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਮੱਤ ਬਖਸ਼ੇ”!
ਇਨਾਂ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ ਹਰਭਜਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੀ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਦੀ ਸਮਾਪਤੀ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। ਲੇਖ ਦੇ ਅਖੀਰ ’ਤੇ ਫੋਨ ਨੰਬਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ, ਜੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਵੀਰ ਨੇ ਵੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰਨੀ ਹੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਖੁਸ਼ੀ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ। ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕਿਸੇ ਗੱਲ ਦੀ ਸਮਝ ਨਾ ਆਈ ਹੋਵੇ ਤੇ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਿ ਸਮਝਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲਤਾ ਕਰਨੀ ਜੀ।
ਆਓ ਹੁਣ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਕਰੀਏ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦੀ। ਗੁਰਚਰਨਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਲਾਂਬਾ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਲੇਖ ਵਿਚ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਾਉਣ ਬਾਰੇ,ਨਿੱਤਨੇਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਬਾਣੀਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਪਰਿਭਾਸ਼ਾ ਦੇ ਸਬੰਧ ਵਿਚ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦਾ ਹਵਾਲਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ। ਸਵਾਲ ਉੱਠਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਕਿਸੇ ਵੀ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰੇ ਜਾਂ ਡੇਰੇ ਵਿਚ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਲਾਗੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਣ ਦਿੰਦੇ। ਜਦੋਂ ਵੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੰਚਾਰ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਤਾਂ ਆਪੋ-ਆਪਣੀ ਜਥੇਬੰਦੀ ਦੀ ਬਣਾਈ ਹੋਈ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ, ਨਾ ਕਿ ਪੰਥਕ ਏਕਤਾ ਨੂੰ ਮੁੱਖ ਰੱਖਕੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਨੂੰ ਪਹਿਲ ਦੇਣ। ਅਖੰਡ ਪਾਠ ਹੋਣਾ ਹੋਵੇ, ਬੱਚੇ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ-ਕਰਣ ਹੋਵੇ ਜਾਂ ਮਿਰਤਕ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ, ਗੱਲ ਕੀ ਹਰ ਕੰਮ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨਤ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦੇ ਉਲਟ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਪਰ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਸਿੱਖ ਕੌਮ ਤੇ ਠੋਸਣ ਦੀ ਜਿਦ ਪੂਰੀ ਕਰਨ ਲੱਗਿਆਂ, ਕਿਉਂ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦਾ ਸਹਾਰਾ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ ?
ਇਕ ਹੋਰ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਗੱਲ ਉਸੇ ਹੀ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਵਿਚ ਪੰਨਾ 13 ’ਤੇ ਬੜੇ ਹੀ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ,
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਵਾਕਰ(ਤੁੱਲ) ਕਿਸੇ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਨੂੰ ਅਸਥਾਪਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨਾ। ਜੇ ਇਹ ਲੋਕ ਇਮਾਨਦਾਰ ਹਨ ਤਾਂ ਕਿਉਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦਾ ਚੇਤਾ ਆਉਂਦਾ, ਜਦੋਂ ਡੇਰਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ? ਚਲੋ ਜੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਵਾਕਿਆ ਹੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਤੀ ਸੁਹਿਰਦ ਹੋ ਤਾਂ ਸਾਰੇ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰਿਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਡੇਰਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਵਾਨਤ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਨੂੰ ਲਾਗੂ ਕਰਵਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਵੀ ਆਵਾਜ ਉਠਾਓ।
ਸਿੱਖ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਦੇ ਪੰਨਾ 15 ਤੇ, ਕੀਰਤਨ ਸਿਰਲੇਖ ਦੇ ਭਾਗ (ੲ) ਵਿਚ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ “ਸੰਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਕੇਵਲ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਜਾਂ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਵਿਆਖਿਆ ਸਰੂਪ ਰਚਨਾ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਤੇ ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਦਾ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ”। ਇਨਾਂ ਪੰਕਤੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਤਾਂ ਇਹੀ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਸਮਝ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸੰਗਤ ਵਿਚ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ।
ਅੱਗੇ ਚੱਲ ਕੇ ਲੇਖਕ ਨੇ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਵਿਚ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੋਈ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਪਰਿਭਾਸ਼ਾ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਦਸ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਹਿਬਾਨ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੇ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ, ਇਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਸਹਾਰਾ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਸਿੱਖ ਉਹ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਦਸ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਹਿਬਾਨ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਚਾ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਲਈ ਜੋ ਲੋਕ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਤੇ ਨਿਸ਼ਚਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਰੱਖਦੇ ਉਹ ਸਿੱਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦੇ। ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੀਆਂ ਬੇਥਵੀਆਂ ਜਾਣ ਬੁੱਝ ਕੇ ਕਿਸੇ ਸਾਜਿਸ਼ ਅਧੀਨ ਮਾਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ ਉਹ ਸਮਝ ਦਾ ਖਾਨਾ ਹੀ ਬੰਦ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ। ਰਹਿਤ ਮਰਿਆਦਾ ਵਿਚ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਗਈ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਪਰਿਭਾਸ਼ਾ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਜਿੰਨਾ ਮਰਜੀ ਚਾਹੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਪਾਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਖਿੱਚ ਲਵੇ, ਸਾਰੀ ਉਮਰ ਲਾ ਕੇ ਵੀ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਹੈ। ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੋਰ ਲਾ ਕੇ ਦੇਖ ਲਿਆ, ਇਕੱਲਾ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਵੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕੀਤੀ, ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨਾਲ ਅਨਿਆਂ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਵੀ ਕਰੀ, ਕਈ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਫ਼ਰਜ਼ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਵੀ ਦੇਖੇ, ਗੱਲ ਕੀ ਹਰ ਹੀਲਾ ਵਰਤ ਕੇ ਦੇਖਿਆ, ਕਿਸੇ ਵੀ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਇਹ ਸਾਬਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਿਆ ਕਿ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਪਰਿਭਾਸ਼ਾ ਤੋਂ ਇਹ ਸਿੱਧ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੋਵੇ ਕਿ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਕਿਹਾ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ।
ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਸਭ ਕੁਝ ਕਿਸੇ ਸਾਜਿਸ਼ ਅਧੀਨ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ।ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਦਵਾਨ ਅਖਵਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਦੀ ਸਮਝ ਦਾ ਇਹ ਹਾਲ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਵਿਚਾਰਾ ਸਧਾਰਨ ਕਿਰਤੀ ਸਿੱਖ ਹੈ (ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਵਰਗਲਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ) ਉਸਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਹੀ ਰਾਖਾ ਹੈ। ਅਸੀਂ ਸਮੂਹ ਜਾਗਰੂਕ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਨਿਮਰਤਾ ਸਹਿਤ ਬੇਨਤੀ ਕਰਨੀ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਆਓ, ਆਪਾਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਪੜੀਏ ਤੇ ਵਿਚਾਰੀਏ ਤਾਂ ਕਿ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਦੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਆ ਸਕੇ।
ਗੁਰੂ ਭਲੀ ਕਰੇ।
ਹਰਨੇਕ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਿਊਜੀਲੈਂਡ


????????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?????
An English transcript in summary from follows in next post for the ebnefit of those readers of spn who cannot read Gurmukhi/Punjabi.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Here is the English Translation Harnek Singh New Zealand's reply of GS lambas article in latest sant Sipahi
A critcal View of S. GS Lamba’s recent post on the website of Sant Sipahi – ref: Dsam Granth in the writings of Principal (late) S.Harbahjan Singh [/FONT][/FONT]
ਗੁਰਚਰਨਜੀਤ [/FONT]ਸਿੰਘ [/FONT]ਲਾਂਬਾ [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਲੇਖ “[/FONT]ਸ੍ਰੀ [/FONT]ਦਸਮ [/FONT]ਗ੍ਰੰਥ [/FONT]ਸਾਹਿਬ-[/FONT]ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ [/FONT]ਹਰਭਜਨ [/FONT]ਸਿੰਘ [/FONT]ਜੀ [/FONT]ਦੀ [/FONT]ਜਬਾਨੀ” [/FONT]ਦੀ [/FONT]ਪੜਚੋਲ[/FONT]
Recently on the web site of the Monthly Sant Sipahi I came across an article by its Editor GS Lamba. The article raised two queries in my mind..firstly because of the mention of the Late Principal Harbahjan Singh Ji and second reference to Sikh Rehat maryada. Fortunately I have both at home – the SRM Copy ( which each sikh home should have anyway) and the books of Principal Harbahajn Singh ji which are in my library. Thus my work became much easier.[/FONT]
Firts the article about Principal Harbahajan Singh Ji. GS Lamba gives a very good and glowing introduction ref his credentials, educational background etc etc and then tries to prove that this great man of letters beleived that the entire dsm garnth is Guru Gobind Singh written. As i said earlier..i have the book _ “ Selected essays on Dsm Garnth” By Principal harbahjan Singh. I have read it...and i believe anyone with even a simple educational background can understand what are the conclusions of Principal harbahjan Singh ji regarding the DSM Granth. I have no idea why these people, being so highly educated and all....try and mislead the simple sikh sangats..sometimes using the names of established sikh panth personalities and at other times using the argument of the Nitnem Banis, Khandey batte dee pahul ceremony to crate doubts.[/FONT]
Prinsipal Harbahjan Singh ji on Page 9 of his book has clearly written that in DSM Granth there are ONLY about 70 pages or so which he believes to be as per the Gurmatt philosophy of Guru Ji..ALL the REST are mythological stories and translations of such. Far from being in consonance with GURBANI..they dont even agree with EACH OTHER !! The DIABOLICAL POETS..especially SAKAT Kavi SHYAAM has very cleverly tried to portray his own compositions as Guru gobind Singh kirt..[/FONT] [/FONT]Sri Mukh Bani and thus preach his SAKAT ISHT through misrepresentation.[/FONT]
Going further the Late Principal Sahib writes..” the one and only way to end this whole controversy is to use the Litmus Test of GURBANI (of SGGS) and separate the Milk form the water ( wheat from the chaff) Gurbani dee kaswattee - !! and begs the solution be accepted so the Khalsa panth and its Chardeekalla can be guaranteed..otherwise the BIPRAN REETS, Brahmnawaad rituals etc will not leave anything un-shredded...we will be torn to tatters !! The readers can make up their own minds about what Principal harbahjan Singh ji thought about dsm granth.[/FONT]
On Pages 165 to 167 Pricipal Harbahajn Singh ji wrotes about the Chiratrpakoyans”...The Charotarpakhoyans are NOT DASMESH BANI..they are translations or ancient Hindu puaranic mythlogivcal stories..The SGPC via its secretary S. Gurbaksh Singh in a letter dated 3rd August, 1973 has affirmed thsi position of the SGPC as well.[/FONT]
[/FONT]ਆਪਣੀ [/FONT]ਕਿਤਾਬ [/FONT]ਦੀ [/FONT]ਸਮਾਪਤੀ [/FONT]ਕਰਦਿਆਂ [/FONT]ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸੀਪਲ [/FONT]ਸਾਹਿਬ [/FONT]ਨੇ [/FONT]ਇਕ [/FONT]ਨੋਟ [/FONT]ਲਿਖਿਆ [/FONT]ਹੈ। [/FONT]ਪੰਨਾ 167- “[/FONT]ਨੋਟ-[/FONT]
Finally Principal Harbahajn Singh ji writes on page 167” To all proponesnts of DSM granth... I say this...IF all of You can READ those Charitars etc out LOUDLY in the presence of your wives, daughters, sisters and families, and do KATHA of those...I will give up my stance and agree with them. BUT so far NONE has agreed to this. To them I ask..IF you cannot in all DECENCY do paath/vichaar of these charitars in PUBLIC and in your family..how cna you deem it fit to put the holy names of Guru nanak –Guru Gobind Singh Ji to such compositions...and commit the unpardonable crime of putting all of Dsm garnth into the mouth of Guru Ji. What a return we give for all the sacrifices and unbeleivable Blessings the Gurus showered on US.May Waheguru bless us with SENSE.[/FONT]
This is how the Late Principal harbahajn Singh ji closes his book...am i missing something ??[/FONT]
Now lets come to the Sikh Rehat maryada. GSLamba ji refers to the SRM ref the Nitnem banis and Khandey batte dee pahul ceremony...and defines a Sikh.[/FONT]
First the REALITIES on the GROUND. No DERA...or GURDWARA is follwoing the Sikh rehat maryada 100%. Whenever a Amrit Sanchaar” takes place..the JATHA Maryada takes PRECEDENCE. Whether its an akhand paath, naming ceremony, funeral..EACH OCASSION is an occasion to GO AGAINST THE SRM...BUT when it coems to the ...”occasion to FORCE FEED US the entire DSM garnth ..the SRM is cited !! again and again and again !! the SRM..the SRM..mantra is non-stop. But where is the SRM....??? Is the SRM uniformly ENFORCED in ALL SGPC gurdawras (at the very least)..at the TAKHATS..at all DERAS and Jathebandi Gurdwaras ?? Isnt this a “highly selective emphasis on SRM for ones own limited ends ??[/FONT]
[/FONT]
ANYWAY..the SRM states very very clearly on PAGE 13...NO OTHER BOOK can be parkashed at par with the SGGS. Period. How can these people NOT SEE that the DSM Granth is parkash at PAR in the deras and jathedbandi gurdwars they visit regularly ?? IF they are so comitted to the SRM..why NOT speak out agianst these Gross VIOLATIONS ??[/FONT]
The SRM page 15 also states clearly... In the sangat..the KIRTAN can ONLY be of SGGS Gurbani, and in viakhiya roop (exposition) of the BHAI GURDASS and BHAI NAND LAL compostions. ISNT this clearly saying that DSM granth cannot be used to do KIRTAN in SANGAT.[/FONT]
Going furtehr teh GS lamba tries to pull the “definition of a SIKH” in the direction of DSM Garnth by saying that a SIKH is one who beleives in the Gurbani of DAS GURUS..the ten Nanaks...and thus those who DONT beleive in DSM Granth are NOT SIKHS. I have no idea why these people continue to say these misguided conclusions...either they have an agenda..or they have closed their understanding portal. This part of the SRM cannot be used to “prove” that dsm granth is Guru Gobind Singh Kirt..composed by Guru Ji...no matter how much pulling and in whatever direction it is pulled...it always returns to teh ORIGINAL intention..which is that the SGGSis the SPIRITUAL SUCCESSOR to the TEN NANAKS...and a SIKH is one who beleives in THIS FACT. ( even though THREE Nanaks – Guru hargobind Ji, Guru har rai Ji, Guru Harkishn Ji ) clearly NEVER wrote a single TUK of Gurbani..their JYOT is still in SGGS..and a SIKH has to beleive that...ALL “TEN” NANAK JYOT is in SGGS. Period.) Thus the Original “intention”of this clause is that IF....despite not a single tuk by Guru hargobind ji, Guru har rai ji, and Guru Kishan Ji..the SGGS is still their JYOT..why should the Guru gobind Singh jyot be “dependant” on dsm garnth ?? Its clear this clause is being grossly misused and MISREPRESENTED to prove ones own agenda.[/FONT]
Looking at such happenings..it has to be beleived that there is indeed a hidden agenda behind this...because IF the Sikh “intellectuals and inteligensia” take this stand..then what can the Ordinary hardworking Sikh do to escape this trap? He can only depend on Waheguru to protect him..from these..my benti to all Sikhs..let us all wake up and look towards only our one and only GURU..the SGGS..study its Bani, understand it and APPLY it in our Daily Lives to CHANGE for teh Better..towards GURMUKHTA.[/FONT]
Harnek Singh new Zealand.[/FONT]
English translation by: Gyani jarnail Singh...all errors and omissions excepted.[/FONT]

 

[Amanpreet Singh]

WJKK WJKF

We are moorakh, we cannot judge which is Bani or which is not.Only Mahapurshs or Brahm Gyanis can tell.Like Bhai Randhir Singh Ji who spent 16 years in jail with help of Divine Power of Naam.
Like Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawaale who was a Puran BrahamGyani.
Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen who was a very great scholar, also said that Sri Dassam Granth is a Dassam Bani.Prof Sahib Singh Ji was a real scholar not these Kala Afgana and his company,he agreed with Dashmesh Bani.Bhai Veer Singh Ji who was True Philosopher stood for Dassam Granth Sahib Ji.Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha ,writer of Mahan Kosh stood for Dssam Granth.
Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawaale who stood against Indian Govt. said "Bani parh ke amal karna tan dar kinaar.Buzdil Sri Dassam Granth di Bani da Paath taan sun bhi nahin sakda.Is Granth vichon Teghaan dian Tunkaraan, Shukde Teer, Khande di kharkaahat, Ghorian dian hinkanaan, Haathian dian chingaraan, Sheraan dian dharhaan, Badlaan vaang gajde yodhian nun sunna Surmeaan da kam hai, Khande di Dhaar vichon Janme Khalse de Lachhan is Granth vichon saaf lishkde han".
If these Spiritual Mahapurkhs stood for Sri Dassam Granth why we shopuld go against it.We are moorakh and we should not follow such anti- Dassamesh Bani followers.
Ask them to spend 16 days in Jail torture like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji spent for 16 years during British period with power of Naam.
Bhul Chuk Maaf
Thankyou
Amanpreet Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

amanpreet singh ji, waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

Those are your views and you have a right to hold them.
The Article in question focus on:
1.What Prof Harbhajan Singh wrote and how he is MISREPRESENTED especially NOW that he is dead and cannot defend his views.Its intellectual dishonesty of the highest order..something which is NOT taught by Guru Gobind Singh Ji..and his Khalsa shoudlnt practise.
2. An attempt to misrepresent the words Dassan Patshaihan dee JYOT used in SRM is not correct IF one deosnt beleive in dsm garnth. This is wrong.
3. No attempts are made by these pro dsm granthis to project the SRM..except when it suits their agenda.
4. names are being dropped..all those persons are dead and they cannot step in and defend their sayings. Just ONE EXAMPLE- One Brahmgyani Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh ji STAUNCHLY BELIEVES RAAGMAALA is NOT GURBANI...he made a "judgement". Another EQUALLY BRAHMGYANI..even more staunchly believes Raagmaal IS GURBANI !! He also made a "judgement"..on GURBANI ?>?? did he not. HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN ? IF "Brahmgyanis" can DIFFER on RAAGMAALA..why NOT on Charitarpakhoyan ?? etc etc..What proves which Brahmgyani is CORRECT ?? ( For ME..personally Bhai Randhir Singh Ji is 1000000% CORRECT on Raagmala !!! Raagmala is NOT Gurbani. BUT I beleive He didnt USE his "Brahmgyan"..he used his Guru given INTELLECT that we all HAVE in abundance and GURBANI advises us to use it..AAKLEEN SAHIB SEVEAH...and not blindly follow so called "brahmgyanis"..who are just ordinary HUMANS like youa nd me..the ONE and ONLY Brahmgyani is GURU JI..Dhan Dhan Guru granth sahib Jee Maharaj. EACH SIKH has to..read Gurbani..vichaar it...and APPLY IT. NO other can do it for us...KHAVO BHUNCHO..we have to USE our OWN MOUTH..to eat and get the Taste...no one else can...gunggeh mathiyaee khayee....
Bhul Chuk Maaf...

 

[spnadmin]

Forum members - Please forgive me any offense by posting the notification of the visit of Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba. I posted it as a matter of interest and had no intention of stirring things up. But if we are going to have different points of view, then there will be controversy.

As I read replies so far the result is something very educational for me. This part was particularly meaningful to me:

IF "Brahmgyanis" can DIFFER on RAAGMAALA..why NOT on Charitarpakhoyan ?? etc etc..What proves which Brahmgyani is CORRECT ?? ( For ME..personally Bhai Randhir Singh Ji is 1000000% CORRECT on Raagmala !!! Raagmala is NOT Gurbani. BUT I beleive He didnt USE his "Brahmgyan"..he used his Guru given INTELLECT that we all HAVE in abundance and GURBANI advises us to use it..AAKLEEN SAHIB SEVEAH...and not blindly follow so called "brahmgyanis"..who are just ordinary HUMANS like youa nd me..the ONE and ONLY Brahmgyani is GURU JI..Dhan Dhan Guru granth sahib Jee Maharaj. EACH SIKH has to..read Gurbani..vichaar it...and APPLY IT. NO other can do it for us...KHAVO BHUNCHO..we have to USE our OWN MOUTH..to eat and get the Taste...no one else can...gunggeh mathiyaee khayee....

Gyani ji Thank you for taking the time to do something extra and also valued through your presentation of the text of Principal Harbhajan Singh, the translation, and your critical analysis and conclusions in the third post. A notification became an educational experience that I hope others have found enlightening.

So much hard work.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Narayan Jot Kaur Ji,
Gurfateh.

I see no "offence" in a mere post.
And even news items are good for a learning experience..thats my view..so i make it apoint to read all posts...even if just news or announcements.
Thirdly I wonder if anyone else noticed...there are NO Announcements by those Opposing GS Lamba's visit, threatening a boycott or such unruly behaviour..as is the Norm for the dsm granth supporters...whoever they dotn like..... they brand kala afghanist, sect, communist, un beleiver, atheist etc and protest ....wildly at times...the calm sikhs let the "substance' be judged...rather than beat the empty drums....
We are all learning...even from wild protests !! and controversies...
Thanks to all...

 

[Tejwant Singh]

WJKK WJKF

We are moorakh, we cannot judge which is Bani or which is not.Only Mahapurshs or Brahm Gyanis can tell.Like Bhai Randhir Singh Ji who spent 16 years in jail with help of Divine Power of Naam.
Like Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawaale who was a Puran BrahamGyani.
Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen who was a very great scholar, also said that Sri Dassam Granth is a Dassam Bani.Prof Sahib Singh Ji was a real scholar not these Kala Afgana and his company,he agreed with Dashmesh Bani.Bhai Veer Singh Ji who was True Philosopher stood for Dassam Granth Sahib Ji.Bhai Kahan Singh Ji Nabha ,writer of Mahan Kosh stood for Dssam Granth.
Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawaale who stood against Indian Govt. said "Bani parh ke amal karna tan dar kinaar.Buzdil Sri Dassam Granth di Bani da Paath taan sun bhi nahin sakda.Is Granth vichon Teghaan dian Tunkaraan, Shukde Teer, Khande di kharkaahat, Ghorian dian hinkanaan, Haathian dian chingaraan, Sheraan dian dharhaan, Badlaan vaang gajde yodhian nun sunna Surmeaan da kam hai, Khande di Dhaar vichon Janme Khalse de Lachhan is Granth vichon saaf lishkde han".
If these Spiritual Mahapurkhs stood for Sri Dassam Granth why we shopuld go against it.We are moorakh and we should not follow such anti- Dassamesh Bani followers.
Ask them to spend 16 days in Jail torture like Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji spent for 16 years during British period with power of Naam.
Bhul Chuk Maaf
Thankyou
Amanpreet Singh

Amanpreet ji,

Guru Fateh.

Your post indicates, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but please correct me if I am wrong that you have read the whole Dasam Granth and hence concluded that it is written by our 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singh ji, who sacrificed his Father, his 4 sons, lowered himself to pick us up to his level in the way of Khandei di Pahul, thus made us Khalsas,did not add his writings in SGGS but his Father's and last but not the least, gave us SGGS, as our ONLY GURU.

So, as you have studied the Dasam Granth, can you please share with us your thoughts regarding Charotarpakhoyans[/FONT]?

Please elaborate in your own words the message of our 10th Guru by quoting from Charotarpakhoyans[/FONT]. I know that you are very well aware that these writings are part of Dasam Granth which you embrace wholeheartedly.

Eagerly waiting to learn from you.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

You did not do anything wrong. You just passed on the message by Vijaydeep Singh ji.

One wonders though, that why can not he post his own posts because last week Kanwardeep Singh ji also posted on behalf of Vijaydeep Singh ji!

I wish he could come and post by himself as he has done in the past so we could interact with him directly which is the only right way in my opinion. One can only learn through direct interaction with the person.

Lastly, if Vijaydeep Singh had only mentioned the information about Lamba Sahib's visit to the US, whom I happen to know personally, then it would have been fine. I only objected to his blatant bias and bigotry towards his fellow Sikhs. Vijaydeep Singh forgets that only Ik Ong Kaar knows which milestone each of us is at. HE is our ONLY JUDGE.

This is the reason SGGS, our only Guru teaches us only to judge and re-evaluate ourselves as often as possible with the help of tools given to us through Gurbani, but never to judge others.

Is there anyway Vijaydeep Singh ji can post here by himself in the future?

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thank you very much for your efforts and dedication to translate the post into English and once again, it is worth repeating that you have done a tremendous seva, as usual.

And I do agree with you regarding your opinion about "Brahamgyanis" in response to Amanpreet ji.

We ignore the facts what Gurbani teaches us that there is no pedestal for any one,two, three...... Sikhs. We, as Sikhs are all on the same pedestal as equals provided we use SGGS as our only guide- our inner GPS.

Thanks once again.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Tejwant ji, Thanks for elaborating.
Yes you are right.
Only IK Oangkar is ABHULL.. OTHERS MAKE MISTAKES...Sukhmani Sahib Says..Brahmgyani AAP PARMESHAR...so a "brahmgyani" CANNOT and should not make "any" mistake...and IF he does..then he is NOT so. Thats all. No offense or partisan views towards any "brahmgynais or Mahapurahss or Sri 1008 Baba Jis...whatever. For ME..the One and Only Brahmgyani is Dhan Dhan SGGS ji...which I can interact with on a daily basis..and IK Oangkar which is manifested through the SGGS. Love Towards all...

 

[Amanpreet Singh]

WJKK WJKF

I lived with a Chakravasrti Jatha of Singhs who were having a great knowledge about Bani.

Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji,
Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji had written many books.Tell me in which book he said don't read Raagmala.He himself never read Raagmala.Actually he was baptised from Panj Piare of Panch Khalsa Diwan[of Babu Teja Singh Bhasaur],at that time they told him not to read Raagmala.So he never read Raagmala as he had to obey Panj Piare but never spoke nor he wrote against Raagmala.Show me any book.

Regarding relations between Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh JI and Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindrawaale
One day Bhai Sahib was doing Kirtan and Sant Ji came.Bhai Sahib after doing Kirtan placed his harmonium in frontt of Sant Ji.Sant Ji said I cannot do Kirtan, I can do only Katha.Bhai Sahib said o Katha hen,Sant Ji said You don't listen to Katha.Bhai Sahib answered I ll not listen to Katha of anyone else but if Sant Gurbachan Singh will do then I ll listen.Then Sant jI did Katha.
Think before writing anything against these Mahapurshs.They contributed and struggled a lot for Sikh Panth.They never used names like Sant, Baba etc before their names. U are writting against them just because u are a 'Gyani'. I am not intesrted in personal comments but I posted what I felt.
Tejwant Singh Ji,

I had no much to argue and waste time but ll simply stick to the main point.
There are two things one is Chitar and other is Charitar.Chitar is body shape and Charitar is inner character.Many times we say person was something else from outside and different from inside.Charitropakhian is Charitar Pakhian.
I ll tell only one example.When Singhs under command of Baghel Singh Ji attacked Dehli, Sultan even after a lot of effort failed.His wife said let me do something.She went to Sardar Baghel Singh and started talking like you are very brave, courageous............. Finally, he started laughing and said I had read Dassam Granth and I know which trick are you playing and how I can protect myself, what to do.................It is better u go.She said how u ll accpet me.He said come like a sister.She came like a Sister then and tied Rakhi and asked for some gift.He asked which gift u want.She said Rule of Dehli.This was how the high character iof Singhs was.The reason was Dassam Bani.
Regarding its Katha in family......
Guru Sahib writes 'Iti sri charitropakhiane tria charitre mantri bhoop sambade.......'
Mantri bhoop sambade has 2 meanings at same time
One is Charitars/stories told by minister in the Bani.Second is these are discussions between a Minister and Kingand this discussion is always a secret.No one has right to listen it.Guru Sahib himself says this is not for Katha only to make clear like father makes clear to son and mother to daughter.Thease are top be klept secret.
Kaam is a vice.Guru is for showing us way.He is showing us our way.what is the problem then?
This what I wanted to say.

Thankyou
Amanpreet Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

amanpreet Ji,
lots of assumptions...you think i am misusing "gyani" and using this to diss mahapurahs..wrong. period. Gyani is not a title...neither is it an attribute...

2. Secondly Randhir Singh ji and his AKJ Jatha DONT read Raagmala..in fact the Damdmai Takslais of the second Mhapursh have stories that Bhai Sahib died with worms in his mouth because he didnt read Raagmalla ( a big LIE of course but that deosnt stop them from telling it). WHY they dont read ragamala and why is it described as NOT GURBANI on theri web sites ? are you seggesting they are wrong and not follwoing Bhai Sahib Ji ?? Get the tapoban.Org site to publish that Raagmala IS Gurbani..then maybe i will reconsider your posting/logic about Bhai shaibs books (btw I have ALL his books and have ahd them since age 5..my very first book was Jail Chitthian..and Sundari by Bhai vor singh...
3. How did Sikhs behave with muslim Woemn during Guru hargobind Jis time ?/ there was no dsm garnth then ..BiBi kaulan was protected in that time...that High Character comes from SGGS. SIKHS got along very well for 230 yeras with ONLY SGGS...and they still cna becasue the SGGS is COMPLETE in everything. Period.

3. the Charitsrs are NOT about Kaam...per se..they are GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS of various sex positions, ways of sexual act etc etc and how to REMOVE HAIR for better sex etc...These cannot be QUOTED here because CHILDREN too read SPN.

 

[spnadmin]

AKJ does not consider Raagmala Gurbani. Bhai Raghbir Singh offered convincing logic that raagmala is not Gurbani. And based on logic and language, KAL is not the pen-name of God.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

amanpreet Ji,
lots of assumptions...you think i am misusing "gyani" and using this to diss mahapurahs..wrong. period. Gyani is not a title...neither is it an attribute...

2. Secondly Randhir Singh ji and his AKJ Jatha DONT read Raagmala..in fact the Damdmai Takslais of the second Mhapursh have stories that Bhai Sahib died with worms in his mouth because he didnt read Raagmalla ( a big LIE of course but that deosnt stop them from telling it). WHY they dont read ragamala and why is it described as NOT GURBANI on theri web sites ? are you seggesting they are wrong and not follwoing Bhai Sahib Ji ?? Get the tapoban.Org site to publish that Raagmala IS Gurbani..then maybe i will reconsider your posting/logic about Bhai shaibs books (btw I have ALL his books and have ahd them since age 5..my very first book was Jail Chitthian..and Sundari by Bhai vor singh...
3. How did Sikhs behave with muslim Woemn during Guru hargobind Jis time ?/ there was no dsm garnth then ..BiBi kaulan was protected in that time...that High Character comes from SGGS. SIKHS got along very well for 230 yeras with ONLY SGGS...and they still cna becasue the SGGS is COMPLETE in everything. Period.

3. the Charitsrs are NOT about Kaam...per se..they are GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS of various sex positions, ways of sexual act etc etc and how to REMOVE HAIR for better sex etc...These cannot be QUOTED here because CHILDREN too read SPN.

Gyani ji,

Thanks for explaining things so nitidly. It is sad to notice that some people do not even study Gurbani so they can understand what its true message is. They would rather have some blind faith based on mechanical rituals and follow others blindly rather than SGGS,our ONLY GURU . As they say, blind faith makes people blind from the inside where as SGGS teaches us to open our eyes so that our understanding based on pragmatism can have the vision of both wide and zoom lenses from the inside, so we can see the world through the same, which in return builds compassion and empathy- the true traits for any kind of Seva.

Because of this myopia, people like Amandeep ji claim that it was Guru Gobind Singh ji who wrote pornography, which is sad to see and the worst part of it all is that they defend these sexual acts as the authourship of Guru Gobind Singh ji shamelessly as he has done in his post to me without even responding to what I asked.

Amandeep starts his post in a defensive mode," I had no much to argue and waste time but ll simply stick to the main point."

One should ask him how asking questions about what he has asserted in his own post can be argumentative and NO, he did not even talk about the main point. His sticky glue to stick to the main point got unstuck, it seems.

This shows one ill agenda by some.

Gurbani helps get rid of the myopia of the mind.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Amanpreet Singh]

JKK WJKF
Gyani Ji,
I lived with Jatha of Taksali Singhs and this was what they told me.This is the 'itraaz' which they have on AKJ that Bhai Sahib had not wriiten in any book against Raagmala.
In Gurbani Paath Darpan by Baba Thakur Singh Ji, he writes about a time when Bhai Randhir Singh Ji and some other Jathedars and he himself too were present at Akahnd Paath and Raagmala was read there.The Paathi asked should he read Raagmala and he was ordered to read Raagmala.I did not met Taksali Singhs who speak against Bhai Sahib.

We can get complete knowledge from SGGS about a true or high character.We get explanation of Mool Mantra too from SGGS then why we need Jaap Sahib from Sri Dassam Granth Sahib Ji.'SGGS is COMPLETE in everything.'Dassam Bani is just explanation of SGGS, it has nothing against or different than SGGS.

Tejwant Singh Ji,
I am not only myopic but also blind.I cannot judge Bani or check whether it is Bani or not or Guru Sahib's composition or not.I just follow the Mahapurshs like Bhai Vir Singh jI etc. I only follow their results about Gurbani.I am not intelligent than scholars like Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen nor I consider myself to be, so that I can make more deeper results. I cannot make my own Teekas or meanings of Gurbani, I just can read their Teekas and try to understand according to my tuchh buddhi.If those Mahapurshs say it is Gurbani then sure because they had Atam Gyan.
If I follow them blindly, I may be and you have opened your inner eyes then post Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawaale, Bhai Sahib Bhai Vir Singh Ji, Gyani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen............. were blind.
Thses Mahapurshs did not made their own sect or trade but they themselves only followed Guru Ji's Path.I am also following Guru Ji's Path but I know just one thing that these Mahapurshs attained something which I had not attained so their thinking starts from much ****her from the point where my thinking reaches.
Gyani JI himself says that his first books were Sundari of Bhai Vir Singh Ji and Jail Chhithian of Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, surely he must be inspired by reading those books.What made him to go against their results about Dassam Bani I think because he became a Gyani and learnt to use his eyes.
I can use attacking mode also agianst not only u but complete triplet also as well as so-called Gyani who considers himself to be superior than Gyani Sant Sant Singh Ji Maskeen etc and adminstrator too.
Regarding Graphical descriptions, in Jatha I was told
There was a schoalr [i forgot his name], a person came to him against Charitropakhian. He made himt o read whole Bani, then twice,thrice...Finally person asked what is the result.There is so much written about sex.the scholar asked while reading it,did u have any thoughts like doing sex,rape etc.person replied No.Singh Sahib said if no then what is problem,it is like a medicene, it is doing work,no wonder it is taste is not sweet,u felt not to do rape etc.which means it worked.It did not inspired u to do such kind of things inspite of such descriptions, it only made u aware.A medicene works though it may not taste sweet.Same is case here.It is doing work.What u have to do how is it doing work.Guru Sahib had to make u aware and he is making u what u have to do with how he is making.

If Dassam bani is not Gurbani then how will we prepare Amrit, do Ardas, do Nitnem etc.
Tell me anyone who was/is having guts to stand against Indian Govt like Sant Bhindrawaale and is against Dassam Bani.Prof Darshan Singh...u may answere.We have his audio tapes of Kirtan from Dassam Bani in about 84, now that Proffessor is now against Dassam Bani.Kala Afgana a traitor....only this company is standing against Dassam Bani. Anyone who contributed a lot and he stood/standing against Dassam Bani.
I study at Baru Sahib, Sant Attar Singh Ji Mastuabnewale who baptized 14 lakh ppl stood for Dassam Bani.Anyone who had made any such contribution and stood against Dassam Bani tell me,anyone, not any so-called scholar but a real and true contributer.

"inne saare Mahapurkh hoye jehna ne apna aap vaar ditta, Dassam Bani nun Guru Krit mande rahe, kii sabh narkaan nun jaange? tuhaade varge Gyanaiaan de bhaane taan
iho sach hai, Oh sabh te moorakh hi c tusin hi syaane nikle".
Thank you
Amanapreet Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

amanapreet singh ji,

we at spn dont call people as .."so called". You seem to be pretty peeved about my educational status..you have attacked this in two posts despite my explaining this fact... i have neever attacked any triplet or sextuplet - i only discuss ideas/thoughts/teachings/gurbani and gurmatt. you are welcome to continue personal attacks...on twins, triplets or octuplets..it makes no difference to me. How I read and accept Bhai Vir Singh, Bhai randhir Singh etc is my own experience. Same as I accept Gurbani...GURU..one to ONE Personal Experience..I dont follow blindly as Gurbani tells me..AAKllean Sahib seveah..THAT is because Guru ji Gave me a BRAIN/Akal...which is to be used HERE... and not kept for some other reincarnation.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Amanpreet Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

I can use attacking mode also agianst not only u but complete triplet also as well as so-called Gyani who considers himself to be superior than Gyani Sant Sant Singh Ji Maskeen etc and adminstrator too.

I have no idea what you mean by that. Who is attacking whome here? Read mine and Gyani ji's posts first and try to understand them what was asked of you.

You have only shown that you are one angry person who believes in other people and so called SANTS rather than SGGS, our ONLY GURU. Read my first post once again and then you will find out that you are not only insulting others who disagree with you but you are also insulting our Dasam Pita, Guru Gobind Singh ji by assuming many things that the so called Sants told you rather than looking and examining the true actions of our 10th Guru and understanding and hence putting into practice the Gurbani in SGGS, our ONLY GURU.

'SGGS is COMPLETE in everything.'Dassam Bani is just explanation of SGGS, it has nothing against or different than SGGS.

The part in bold in your above statement is a false and insulting claim. It shows that you know nothing about SGGS, our only Guru, which is a shame. Show us the Charitars in any aspect in SGGS.
Stop insulting our 10th Guru who did a lot for Sikhi.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Amanpreet Singh]

WJKK WJKF

Tejwant Singh Ji and Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji, sorry if I misunderstood you, actually we ppl in Jathas basically take anyone as anti-Panth who stands against Dssam Granth.Right now I am busy in exams just wait for a week I will give you some Charitars.
Thankyou
Amanpreet Singh