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Gurbani And Woman

Harkiran Kaur

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SPNer
Jul 21, 2012
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When speaking of positive of women in Gurbani this is not the usual one I go to. Reason being is that some have interpreted it as not overly positive of women. At first glance it looks like it is. But then look at the wording... is she only being praised for her ability to bring more males (Kings) into the world, and not looked in positive light on her own volition, of being an individual carrying the same divine light? The above can be taken as a statement that her worth is only in comparison to the man she is being connected to and not as an individual in her own right. Of course you COULD infer man means mankind, but mankind does not marry a woman. Half of mankind would marry a man. You COULD infer King could also mean Queen. But it doesn't say so.

So is the above actually positive of women or not??

My favourite tuk to show equality of all humans is this:

"As Gurmukh look upon ALL with a single eye of equality, for in each and every heart the divine light is contained"

That WOULD include women...
 

Original

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Jan 10, 2011
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So is the above actually positive of women or not??
...indeed it is ! Gurbani is positive and active as opposed to it being restrictive and negative. The above shabd is not just positive and factual, but also functionally descriptive, ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ [meaning, through women social intercourse is found and society comes into being].
 

Original

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Jan 10, 2011
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This is the very reason SPN requires the whole Shabad.
...forgive me Sir !

ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥ ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਭਾਗਾ ਰਤੀ ਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲੇ ਤਿਤੁ ਸਚੈ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 473}
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Henderson, NV.
...forgive me Sir !

ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥ ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਮੁਖਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਾਲਾਹੀਐ ਭਾਗਾ ਰਤੀ ਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇ ਮੁਖ ਊਜਲੇ ਤਿਤੁ ਸਚੈ ਦਰਬਾਰਿ ॥੨॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 473}
Original ji,

Guru Fateh

"Forgiveness is in the mind of the forgiver, hence needs no "acceptance""

Firstly, I want to thank you for posting the whole Shabad. Would you be kind enough to also post the romanised version as many of the participants here do not read Gurmukhi? Thanks.

Secondly,I am sorry to see that you take everything personally. As a result, something urged you to apologise when my post was directed to the original poster not to Original. Yourself, as a barrister should know better. We are all brethren in arms.

My previous post is to show how understanding Gurbani is important in the context of the whole Shabad/Gurmat idea rather than one/some liners.
 
Last edited:

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,029
7,158
Henderson, NV.
When speaking of positive of women in Gurbani this is not the usual one I go to. Reason being is that some have interpreted it as not overly positive of women. At first glance it looks like it is. But then look at the wording... is she only being praised for her ability to bring more males (Kings) into the world, and not looked in positive light on her own volition, of being an individual carrying the same divine light? The above can be taken as a statement that her worth is only in comparison to the man she is being connected to and not as an individual in her own right. Of course you COULD infer man means mankind, but mankind does not marry a woman. Half of mankind would marry a man. You COULD infer King could also mean Queen. But it doesn't say so.

So is the above actually positive of women or not??

My favourite tuk to show equality of all humans is this:

"As Gurmukh look upon ALL with a single eye of equality, for in each and every heart the divine light is contained"

That WOULD include women...
Harkiran ji,

Guru Fateh.

Although I understand the sentiment behind your post, I do not agree with it. In my opinion, Guru Sahib is not glorifying the Kings but rather to the contrary. Kings were the most ruthlessly fiendish rulers in the real sense of the words. Hence the name of a 'queen' would not be the right thing.However, it does show the sacrifice a woman makes by giving birth to even the worst of the worst. Hence, there is every reason to praise the woman, not to just make her a mere vehicle of breeding.
 

Original

Writer
SPNer
Jan 10, 2011
1,053
550
61
London UK
Original ji,
Vadda Veer Ji - Gurfateh !
Firstly, I want to thank you for posting the whole Shabad.
..my pleasure
Would you be kind enough to also post the romanised version as many of the participants here do not read Gurmukhi
I read the shabd directly from SGGSJ and do my own translation. Is that what you are asking me to do ?
Secondly,I am sorry to see that you take everything personally. As a result, something urged you to apologise when my post was directed to the original poster not to Original.
I'm sorry for coming across like that, perhaps I was a bit reckless with the read and hence, an oversight on my part - sorry. Generally speaking, I feel its a lot safer to say sorry on account I've erred and others haven't, a presumption and move on.

My previous post is to show how understanding Gurbani is important in the context of the whole Shabad/Gurmat idea rather than one/some liners.
No comment, although, I feel within the academia homogenisation certain formalities ought to be relaxed to allow intellectual independence to harness the essential features of the subject matter rather than rummage through incidentals for completeness.
 

Sikhilove

Writer
SPNer
May 12, 2016
608
160
...indeed it is ! Gurbani is positive and active as opposed to it being restrictive and negative. The above shabd is not just positive and factual, but also functionally descriptive, ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ [meaning, through women social intercourse is found and society comes into being].
Detachment from bullshit society is what makes a bhagat. Society is filled with competition, people trying to outdo others, women competeing for male attention and males forsaking their wives and gazing with desire at other women. People wanting what they dont have and putting each other down etc.Gurbani says the world is burning in Kalyug.

Many people try to act civilised but their thoughts are primitive.

Others act primitive as well as think primitively. Gurbani asks for us to seek out the society of the saints..everyone else is just the blind leading the blind.

I have family member who people basically worship. As soon as this woman leaves her house,she begins her mission to gather as much attention and praise of her false Maya appeal as possible. The price she pays is her inner peace. She fool's everyone around her and gets praise and when she gets home she continues her f'ing' and blinding and putting down her family members.

This is what Maya is about- society is a bullshit gimmick. Only the saadsangat is true.
 

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