Canada - Footsteps Into Gangland | Sikh Philosophy Network
  • Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Canada Footsteps Into Gangland

Caspian

SPNer
Mar 8, 2008
234
154
YouTube - Footsteps Into Gangland - Official Trailer

The above is a trailer for activist/filmmaker Mani Amar's new film, Footsteps Into Gangland. Some of you may know him from his earlier documentary on Indo-Canadian gang violence in Vancouver (A Warrior's Religion). Needless to say, He is a polarizing figure within the Sikh community—At least to those who know about him.

I was privileged to see an advance screening of the film yesterday. And I can understand why he would be such a polarizing figure in the community. On the one hand, he is raising awareness of critical issues afflicting the south asian community. On the other hand, it seems as if he threw in almost every controversial subject into the movie in an attempt to "Shock" or "Scare" the audience which, in my opinion, does no justice to his activism or to the reality of the situation.

The film we'll get an official release in Surrey around late March. I'll leave a link to the films website for those of you who are interested. But watch the trailer, tell me what you think of his brand of filmmaking. Does it hurt or help his cause? Does it hurt or help the community? Etc :p

http://www.footstepsintogangland.com/
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
caspian ji thanks. Hard to say anything from just the trailor.

Pretty hard to go wrong with "sex, drugs and rock & roll"! I hope it is successful for him as I like to see successful people in our community.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
I dont understand why you guys would say its a good film..... cinemas in India got bomed for making a mockery of Sikhs, a play in Uk got shut down because it discussed hard issues

Is this movie going to be seen by Sikhs a being great because it does not mock sikhs but shows them in a hard man manner, for example that Singh man that appears to rape the girl at the beginning of the trailer?

I dont understand the super Sikhs one minute they are against such things then the next minute they are loving it

No idea....
 

Caspian

SPNer
Mar 8, 2008
234
154
Out of curiosity. Is anyone here from the lower mainland? Apparently Mani gets a lot of death threats from Indo-Canadians who think he is portraying them in a negative light.

Personally, I could care less about the community and the drug issues that face it both here in canada in terms of trafficking and in punjab in terms of addiction. However, I applaud anyone's willingness to raise issues so it strikes me as particularly odd that a strong sample of the indo-canadian community would be so opposed to someone, who is trying (for better or for worse) to be a voice of change, to the point of sending death threats.

I dont understand why you guys would say its a good film..... cinemas in India got bomed for making a mockery of Sikhs, a play in Uk got shut down because it discussed hard issues

But this movie according to the above is great..... is it because it does not mock sikhs but shows them in a hard man manner, for example that Singh man that appears to rape the girl at the beginning of the trailer?

I dont understand the super Sikhs one minute they are against such things then the next minute they are loving it

No idea....
Just to clarify. Im not a sikh :p (im an atheist) so rest assured, im not flip-flopping on a issue. And that scene where the Old Sikh man rapes his young sikh daughter is not even the most controversial moment of the film. Without giving spoilers—its safe to say the film is riddled in controversial scenes.

Out of curiosity. Do you condone the bombing of movie theaters if they make a mockery of sikhs? Is no one allowed to make fun of sikhs without the threat of death? What if the above scene is based on a real life incident (indeed, most of the scenes in the film reflect real life events). Is it not okay to raise the issue due to a fear of death at the hands of someone who thinks this is mockery?
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
Out of curiosity. Is anyone here from the lower mainland? Apparently Mani gets a lot of death threats from Indo-Canadians who think he is portraying them in a negative light.

Personally, I could care less about the community and the drug issues that face it both here in canada in terms of trafficking and in punjab in terms of addiction. However, I applaud anyone's willingness to raise issues so it strikes me as particularly odd that a strong sample of the indo-canadian community would be so opposed to someone, who is trying (for better or for worse) to be a voice of change, to the point of sending death threats.
Technically those in the video are not Sikhs because they have chopped their hair off

When ever you have guns and violenece it acts as a vehicle to promote what ever you want

So for example Bhindranwalla footage and show of guns actually promotes keeping kesh etc etc as you see all of them with 5ks

In this video although it is a Canadian thing others around the World will watch it and get seduced by the violence, drugs and sex but in the background without people really realising it will promote all things to push people away from say keeping hair and so on
 

Caspian

SPNer
Mar 8, 2008
234
154
In this video although it is a Canadian thing others around the World will watch it and get seduced by the violence, drugs and sex but in the background without people really realising it will promote all things to push people away from say keeping hair and so on
I think you completely missed the point. Yes the film does not promote the 5 K's but neither does it promote violence, drugs and sex. And it does not promote the trimmed hair either. That movie sets out to unglamourize the gang lifestyle that has taken the indo canadian youth of canada by storm.

So for example Bhindranwalla footage and show of guns actually promotes keeping kesh etc etc as you see all of them with 5ks
I disagree. Seeing him in full on 5 K's with guns and everything does not promote the kesh and turban anymore then seeing Osama bin laden with guns.

By the way, my previous question still stands just incase you didnt get a chance to see it. I was editing my post in response to ur post and u had posted in response to my post before my edit :p here it is tho

Out of curiosity. Do you condone the bombing of movie theaters if they make a mockery of sikhs? Is no one allowed to make fun of sikhs without the threat of death? What if the above scene is based on a real life incident (indeed, most of the scenes in the film reflect real life events). Is it not okay to raise the issue due to a fear of death at the hands of someone who thinks this is mockery?
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
Badshah ji Hindu evolution in Cinema has been making mockery of the Sikhs (for decades) once the first generation of Punjabi Hindus (after 1947 partition) like Balraj Sahni, Raj Kapoor, Sunil Dutt, Raj Kumar, and the like faded away so I don't understand your sudden love or note of the following,

" ........... cinemas in India got bombed for making a mockery of Sikhs"

The corrupt Brahminic Hinduism is on the rise at the expense of all minorities in India including the Sikhs. This affects cultural, religious and right to life matters and sabotaging of the same.japposatnamwaheguru:

Sat Sri Akal.
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
Out of curiosity. Is anyone here from the lower mainland? Apparently Mani gets a lot of death threats from Indo-Canadians who think he is portraying them in a negative light.

Personally, I could care less about the community and the drug issues that face it both here in canada in terms of trafficking and in punjab in terms of addiction. However, I applaud anyone's willingness to raise issues so it strikes me as particularly odd that a strong sample of the indo-canadian community would be so opposed to someone, who is trying (for better or for worse) to be a voice of change, to the point of sending death threats.

Just to clarify. Im not a sikh :p (im an atheist) so rest assured, im not flip-flopping on a issue. And that scene where the Old Sikh man rapes his young sikh daughter is not even the most controversial moment of the film. Without giving spoilers—its safe to say the film is riddled in controversial scenes.

Out of curiosity. Do you condone the bombing of movie theaters if they make a mockery of sikhs? Is no one allowed to make fun of sikhs without the threat of death? What if the above scene is based on a real life incident (indeed, most of the scenes in the film reflect real life events). Is it not okay to raise the issue due to a fear of death at the hands of someone who thinks this is mockery?
Well someone has to defend SIkh values and most probably there will be peopel who do that

The problem I see is that there is not enough media type activities that promote Sikhism so when the majority o the World does not know what Sikhs is about then you have a film like this that can appeal to the wider audience it seems that we are making a bigger effort to promote non-sikh values.

Its like living in a majority white country and the only real association you have with black people is through gangster rap. Without meeting blacks you will have already stereotyped all blacks as being drugs deals, women beaters, theifs etc

So when this film gets into the wider peoples hands to does not solve SIkh issues at all but does the opposite. This film may also give the first insight to sikhs to those who do not know what sikhs are and as in my example of blacks they will probably think "oh yes SIkhs, those thugs, rapist drugies"

As for bombing cinemas, I am not against it and I am not for it, basically i would not stop them
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
Bombings are a way of life going forward so I don't think that is an issue. Hindus do it, Muslims do it, I don't know if Sikhs have done it for Cinemas, but it will not matter.

Films are made to make money. Only once you have made enough money the options appear to make movies less commercially successful but trying to be sensitive or tackling social/cultural issues like say Satyajit Ray.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
Badshah ji Hindu evolution in Cinema has been making mockery of the Sikhs (for decades) once the first generation of Punjabi Hindus (after 1947 partition) like Balraj Sahni, Raj Kapoor, Sunil Dutt, Raj Kumar, and the like faded away so I don't understand your sudden love or note of the following,

" ........... cinemas in India got bombed for making a mockery of Sikhs"

The corrupt Brahminic Hinduism is on the rise at the expense of all minorities in India including the Sikhs. This affects cultural, religious and right to life matters and sabotaging of the same.japposatnamwaheguru:

Sat Sri Akal.
I was just making refernce to that film featuring Dhamendras son.... cant remember the name and the cinemas got bombed, so my point is that films, cartoons etc can hurt the feelings of people for example the cartoons of prohphet Mohammed (hurt feelings of muslims)
 

Caspian

SPNer
Mar 8, 2008
234
154
With regards to everything you said up until your last sentance. I would almost agree with you. You do run the risk of stereotyping but to be frank. Stereotyping is not much of a concern. To me stereotyping from a movie like this does less to reinforce the notion that sikhs are essentially violent barbarians or thugs then the actual sikhs who go out and bomb cinemas. Are you not afraid of them generalizing the rest of your people? I guess you must justify it sumhow but it still strikes me as surprising that there are sikhs who will admit

As for bombing cinemas, I am not against it and I am not for it, basically i would not stop them
Thats horrible in my opinion. For you a sikh is someone who simply keeps their hair. For me though, any sikh with similar sentiments as you needs serious soul searching to do and to discover what it really means to be a sikh. No offense intended, but what good is ur hair if you would do nothing to stop the potential murder of people if you knew about it and had a chance to stop it?
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
With regards to everything you said up until your last sentance. I would almost agree with you. You do run the risk of stereotyping but to be frank. Stereotyping is not much of a concern. To me stereotyping from a movie like this does less to reinforce the notion that sikhs are essentially violent barbarians or thugs then the actual sikhs who go out and bomb cinemas. Are you not afraid of them generalizing the rest of your people? I guess you must justify it sumhow but it still strikes me as surprising that there are sikhs who will admit



Thats horrible in my opinion. For you a sikh is someone who simply keeps their hair. For me though, any sikh with similar sentiments as you needs serious soul searching to do and to discover what it really means to be a sikh. No offense intended, but what good is ur hair if you would do nothing to stop the potential murder of people if you knew about it and had a chance to stop it?
I think the cinemas were bombed without people in them

I am against the loss of innocent lives, if the cinema had people in them then I would be against it

Why are you just picking up on the ponit of hair any way?
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
Caspian ji I think you cannot assume Badshah ji's to be a Sikh. He does not say his affiliation and I respect that he does not have to.

He refers to generally tangential Sikhi (highly un-ethical if you are not a Sikh and are just juxtaposing as though you really care for Sikhism) issues to stir the pot which again is OK to a point as in this thread.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
deletion. This remark has already been deleted. It is now deleted as a quote. spnadmin

As I said, I am against violence against innocent people........ but I dont think threats should be made for legitimate reasons until all avenues have been explored

Threats does not mean bombings, harrasment etc, it can also mean through legal proceedings
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
Also Caspian Ji, please note that we may all express our individual view points but they do not necessarily have to be Sikh view points (even though Sikhs) but from personal view points
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,380
5,687
As I said, I am against violence against innocent people........ but I dont think threats should be made for legitimate reasons until all avenues have been explored

Threats does not mean bombings, harrasment etc, it can also mean through legal proceedings
badshah ji I admire your stance.

Perhaps your insights on non-violence could add to the following threads where violence is "not filmy" but real.

Just in case you missed!

Sincerity is the hallmark of constructive and productive learning dialog for me.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

Caspian

SPNer
Mar 8, 2008
234
154
Caspian ji I think you cannot assume Badshah ji's to be a Sikh. He does not say his affiliation and I respect that he does not have to.

He refers to generally tangential Sikhi (highly un-ethical if you are not a Sikh and are just juxtaposing as though you really care for Sikhism) issues to stir the pot which again is OK to a point as in this thread.

Sat Sri Akal.
If he was not a sikh, he would have said so just as i did in my clarification. Having said that, It was safe to assume he was a sikh based on his opinions of kesh. Yes... I generalize too lol.

And are you reffering to me as if I really care for sikhism? I dont. I care for sikhs though as I care for all people in that i dont wish death upon anyone. I will admit to holding sikhs to a higher standard then muslims and christians becuase I feel like if they were actually following their religion then these pinions would not be so readily present in the sikh community.

I am against the loss of innocent lives, if the cinema had people in them then I would be against it
Nonetheless, bombing a theater is essentially "thuggish" behaviour. There is nothing civil about it and it does more to reinforce negative stereotypes then the movies themselves.

Having said that, the reference u reffered to of cinema bombings did cause injury and death.

Dozens of people were injured and and at least one person reported killed yesterday after bombs exploded in two packed cinema halls showing a controversial Bollywood movie in the Indian capital.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may/23/film.india

Why are you just picking up on the ponit of hair any way?
Kesh is something I routinely refer to in alot of posts. Having said that, In this thread I did not raise the issue of kesh—you did. I'm simply refering to ur definition of a sikh and juxtaposing it with sikhs like the ones who were responsible for the the cinema bombings.

I assume ur opinion would change now knowing that a person did die because of the cinema bombing? But i know many more sikhs who would not change their opinion regardless. Your initial opinion still puts me off though, you should have known someone died and that the bombs exploded in packed theaters before referring to the example and apathatically suggesting you would do nothing to stop it.
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
badshah ji I admire your stance.

Perhaps your insights on non-violence could add to the following threads where violence is "not filmy" but real.

Just in case you missed!

Sincerity is the hallmark of constructive and productive learning dialog for me.

Sat Sri Akal.
Well as what most Sikhs are saying that Satwant Singh, Kehar Singh and Beant Singh have been punished for murdering Indra Ghandi and there should be no reason why those who murdered the many innocent Sikhs should not be brought to justice.

Basically the murderers of Sikhs should be brought to justice ...........
 

badshah

SPNer
May 8, 2010
210
121
If he was not a sikh, he would have said so just as i did in my clarification. Having said that, It was safe to assume he was a sikh based on his opinions of kesh. Yes... I generalize too lol.

And are you reffering to me as if I really care for sikhism? I dont. I care for sikhs though as I care for all people in that i dont wish death upon anyone. I will admit to holding sikhs to a higher standard then muslims and christians becuase I feel like if they were actually following their religion then these pinions would not be so readily present in the sikh community.



Nonetheless, bombing a theater is essentially "thuggish" behaviour. There is nothing civil about it and it does more to reinforce negative stereotypes then the movies themselves.

Having said that, the reference u reffered to of cinema bombings did cause injury and death.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may/23/film.india



Kesh is something I routinely refer to in alot of posts. Having said that, In this thread I did not raise the issue of kesh—you did. I'm simply refering to ur definition of a sikh and juxtaposing it with sikhs like the ones who were responsible for the the cinema bombings.

I assume ur opinion would change now knowing that a person did die because of the cinema bombing? But i know many more sikhs who would not change their opinion regardless. Your initial opinion still puts me off though, you should have known someone died and that the bombs exploded in packed theaters before referring to the example and apathatically suggesting you would do nothing to stop it.
Innocent people should never be caught up in any warefare or struggle, eg Pan Am bombing (sikhs), IRA bloody Sunday (Irish), World Trade Center (Muslims)

This is indiscriminate killing and its wrong, but obvously this is the reality of any type of modern warefare
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,206
I put this thought out for consideration. A video of a movie trailer has been posted to start the thread. Caspian ji alleges that the movie stands a chance to be a catalyst for social change. Indeed the film's creator has been described as a kind of advocate for cultural reflection. At least this is my understanding. My question: How much of the discussion so far has addressed whether the movie will live up to the mark? Will it provoke soul-searching? Will it provoke serious discussion of persistent problems in the Vancouver South-asian community. What will that look like? Who will say what? Is any of this kind of discussion possible based on a trailer? So far I have read next to nothing about that in this dialog. Let's move in a different direction, because, frankly, it is impossible to tell what this discussion is about, except as it seems to be 2 pages of assumptions about what the "other" person is thinking or would do under hypothetical circumstances.

Thanks Ambarsaria for incisive comments.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Shabad Vichaar by SPN'ers

Sat Sri Akaal,

There are Nine Visible Input or Output Visible Doors through which body interacts with creation.
2 Eyes 2 Nostrils 2 Ears 1 Mouth 2 for Excretion
Total of Nine visible...

SPN on Facebook

...
Top