• Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
    Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
    Sign up Log in

Does Sikhism Embrace Mysticism?

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Re: Does Sikhism embrace Mysticism

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I have the similar queries as Ambarsaria ji does. The literal translation seems to be misleading. Can you please put this beautiful poetry (the whole Shabad) in your own words? Poetry put into prose with your personal understanding can give us the glimpse of the clearer understanding of the message as seen by you.

Thanks & regards

Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited:

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Re: Does Sikhism embrace Mysticism

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mystic
mystic

mys·tic (mstk)
adj.
1. Of or relating to religious mysteries or occult rites and practices.
2. Of or relating to mysticism or mystics.
3. Inspiring a sense of mystery and wonder.
4.

a. Mysterious; strange.
b. Enigmatic; obscure.

5. Mystical.
n.
One who practices or believes in mysticism or a given form of mysticism: Protestant mystics.
[Middle English mystik, from Latin mysticus, from Greek mustikos, from musts, initiate; see mystery1.]

There is nothing mysterious, obscure, strange about Sikhi. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru is open to all. It is a treasure trove which is full of gems, and anyone, from any hue,creed or faith can dig them for their personal use and share with anyone. There is no restriction nor any mystery about it.

Tejwant Singh
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
Shabad from page 9:

Ambarsaria ji,
My understanding of Naam is that it is everything; the universe, existence itself is Naam. Through Naam we come to understand God. Through forms we come to understand the formless. It is also a word designated for God such as "God", "Ram", "Hari", "Allah". Thus through repitition of the Naam, or chanting it we can come to know God. Similar idea, the latter being more specific to Sikh tradition. E.g. Specific to Buddh tradition is Buddhists concentrating on their breath, through forms the formless is reached in this way. The shabad speaks of both the specific and the general.

Naam is a process as well as all the forms that exist. Naam is a process of seeing the formless through forms, forms being Naam as well. Both are indescribable, one can only experience them to know.

Naam is a realization of what you have been taking for granted.

Naam, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, used as "a word designated for God"; the above are deeper meanings to what it means to have repeated and meditated on the Naam.

A little bit on mystery:
The direct experience/ perception of God is Naam. This experience/perception works in mysterious ways.

It is a perception of mystery.

This perception is filled with awe and wonder but also much more than that. It is ecstatic, it is a union between "I" and "Everything else".

The universe is a mysterious, obscure, strange place. This can be understood through thought but the moment it is intuitively realized... is a mystical experience and enlightenment.
 
Last edited:
Oct 21, 2009
451
895
India
Re: Does Sikhism embrace Mysticism

SP ji,

Exactly :) Thank you for this SP ji, he is brilliant.

The entire Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is describing a way to reach liberation by merging with God.

Harry ji,

= mysticism.
If someone were to say that is supernatural. Would it change that? Would is change the actual thing? Would it make that more mystical than it already is?

Everything is perception Harry ji. There is nothing outside of perception. The growing of this perception to extremely powerful, ecstatic and vivid states is referred to as a mystical experience. This is when you feel you are the perception and the perception is you. This is called "merging with God" in Eastern philosophy.
Bhagat Veer ji,
Thanks for a wonderful post. I have also posted twice in this thread but now realize that unless the context in which Harry ji has used the word 'Mysticism ' is clear, no useful purpose would be served. There are four or five interpretations of this term already given. Sp ji, Sh Tewant ji , ambarsaria ji, myself and Navdeep ji.
No term is in full agreement with another; hence unless the context in which the querist has initiated this becomes clear we shall be grappling for nothing.
Mysticism may seem 'magical' to me. To you it may not. It is the context that has to be seen before analyzing further.
Respected Tejwant ji has already pointed out that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is living guru and anyone can find guidance for oneself. Gynai ji has also stated that Gurbani is not Mantra. Personally speaking I would lay rest to the discussion barring , of course, a suitable clarification on contextual meaning of the word used.

Regards
Tjs
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,384
5,689
Bhagat Singh veer I am understanding of your post but this part I am so not built for,
Thus through repitition of the Naam, or chanting it we can come to know God.

So I cannot comment as my belief is repeatedly chanting something has always an implied association to understanding/visualization before perhaps you lose your senses through exhaustion/enlightenment. So the starting point at times may determine where one ends up rather than euphoric exhaustion and a belief of enlightenment.

Hence I tend to perhaps little more on understanding before such as chanting. So when I see people chanting in Gurdwaras like "Waheguru Waheguru .........." I feel bewildered as to whether it is the sheep following the guide, copy analogy to yawning by unconsciously seeing others yawn, etc., without having an understanding. Perhaps it is people just want to rinse their mind by closing eyes and getting out of breath or hyper-ventilating. If it is enlightenment I will never get it. But then again it is quite possible I am missing something.

Sat Sri Akal.
 

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
Ambarsaria ji,
You use the word understanding...
What is this an understanding of? (having an understanding of what?)
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,194
55
Taranjeetji,

I agree with you, my title is poorly worded, however, I think we are grasping what mysticism means to each of us through the thread, and I am pleased to note that the mysticism that is deemed acceptable is not the asking of miracles, or the request to Creator to change the laws of physics, or indeed any of the magic shows one can view in the name of religion, so far, through this thread, I would say Sikh mysticism to me concentrates on the bond between Creator and Man, and nothing more, that is a kind of mysticism that I can embrace, and everyones answers have been hugely helpful
 
Oct 21, 2009
451
895
India
Gurfatehji



Does the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have properties that elevate it above merely a written transcript, I am aware that it should not be worshipped, but cherished and respected as a living Guru, but does the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have properties that one could call mystical?

I suppose to clarify this argument, one would have to debate whether the Gurus themselves had special powers, or mystical abilities, I would like to think the Gurus were human beings that had understood completely the point of Sikhi, and endured everything that they did with no other abilities than are open to you and me, if that is the case, then the 11th Guru, the living book , surely would embrace a similar vein that promoted enlightenment through understanding, study and practical implementation of knowledge through action, I believe there is nothing further than this, I would be most interested in anyone who felt mysticism in Sikhi

Thank you Harry Veer ji ,I am glad that you clarified.Title of the thread and the content are in perfect sync. in so far as your initial post is concerned. One has the right to be wiser with passage of time. I am also bit wiser after doing this thread. The thread is instrumental in initiating me to have a deeper reading of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Thanks for this as well. Yeah, we retain the right to differ occasionally and those occasions would be few, I believe.

Warm Regards!
TJS
 

findingmyway

Writer
SPNer
Aug 17, 2010
1,665
3,778
World citizen!
Re: Does Sikhism embrace Mysticism

The nine treasures and the miraculous spiritual powers come by contemplating the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. [220-19]

Those who meditate in remembrance on the True Guru, are blessed with wealth and prosperity, supernatural spiritual powers and the nine treasures.[1405-17]

As per forum TOS please post the full shabads in Gurmukhi and your understanding in English. This is necessary for full understanding of the shabad to allow others to come to their own understanding too. Quoting single lines takes the meaning out of context and can hamper true understanding of the shabad. Thank you.


Your second part of the question relates to whether Gurus had mystical powers. I believe that they were Perfect Human being and self realized persons. Guru Nanak dev ji could turn the direction of the Mosque as per his convenience is an ample proof that Gurus were blessed with the super natural powers, the phenomenon of which we cannot explain.


Please see this thread. I hope you find it interesting http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sakhis/26973-what-really-happened-in-mecca.html
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,194
55
I have just read the thread on Mecca, the impression I now get of Creator is not that of an energy that needs to impress anyone with a magic show, Creator made the rules, and Creator respects those same rules, anything less would be hypocritical, everything that has taken place, everything that will happen, if what we believe in to be true, is beautiful, mystical, logical, explainable, there are two sides to the coin, there are a million sides to the coin, a lack of mumbo jumbo makes things clearer, achievable, dispels the need for faith, faith is for miracles and the unexplainable, faith bridges the gap between what we know, and what we do not understand, better to work on understanding more than trying to deepen your faith, in my humble opinion
 
Oct 21, 2009
451
895
India
Re: Does Sikhism embrace Mysticism

As per forum TOS please post the full shabads in Gurmukhi and your understanding in English. This is necessary for full understanding of the shabad to allow others to come to their own understanding too. Quoting single lines takes the meaning out of context and can hamper true understanding of the shabad. Thank you.


Please see this thread. I hope you find it interesting http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sakhis/26973-what-really-happened-in-mecca.html

Thank you, Sir, for reminding me of TOS. I shall post full shabads as desired in day or two as I shall have to do some home work. It shall help me also conceptualizing on Naam.
Thank you once again.

tjs
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Taranjeetji,

I agree with you, my title is poorly worded, however, I think we are grasping what mysticism means to each of us through the thread, and I am pleased to note that the mysticism that is deemed acceptable is not the asking of miracles, or the request to Creator to change the laws of physics, or indeed any of the magic shows one can view in the name of religion, so far, through this thread, I would say Sikh mysticism to me concentrates on the bond between Creator and Man, and nothing more, that is a kind of mysticism that I can embrace, and everyones answers have been hugely helpful

Harry ji,

Guru Fateh.

When the bond is created between Ik Ong Kaar and the Sikh, then there is no mystery left. It is an open love which is the most beautiful life changing metamorphosis that one feels the compulsion to share this goodness with the whole world.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Bhagat Singh veer I am understanding of your post but this part I am so not built for,

Thus through repitition of the Naam, or chanting it we can come to know God.
So I cannot comment as my belief is repeatedly chanting something has always an implied association to understanding/visualization before perhaps you lose your senses through exhaustion/enlightenment. So the starting point at times may determine where one ends up rather than euphoric exhaustion and a belief of enlightenment.

Hence I tend to perhaps little more on understanding before such as chanting. So when I see people chanting in Gurdwaras like "Waheguru Waheguru .........." I feel bewildered as to whether it is the sheep following the guide, copy analogy to yawning by unconsciously seeing others yawn, etc., without having an understanding. Perhaps it is people just want to rinse their mind by closing eyes and getting out of breath or hyper-ventilating. If it is enlightenment I will never get it. But then again it is quite possible I am missing something.

Sat Sri Akal.

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I tend to agree with Ambarsaria ji on this one. In one of my other posts I said that one can repeat the name of Lady Gaga for 30 minutes and may feel good about it for a while. Repetition does have that effect but there is nothing mystic about it.

I remember when I used to visit the Dodra Vaheguru Jatha many moons ago, the importance on Vaheguru Simran was the first and the foremost. There was one hour of loud parroting of Vaheguru at 5 am and then 15 minutes of the silent simran. Once the loud simran stopped, one could hear more than half the sangat, which was in hundreds snoring and this was a daily affair. I am sure snoring during simran does not make anyone mystic.

Military training is based on the same concept where the repetition creates a second nature so one's actions have no hesitance, in this case, in the war zone. However, this has nothing to do with Sikhi and its Gurmat concept.

The repetition in Sikhi is like remembering the lessons given by our Father so we do things in a right way. That is why we read Gurbani again and again so that the concept is understood which can be used in our everyday lives.

Parroting something or anything mechanically is not a Sikhi concept in my opinion. And there is no mystery which can be discovered/found, nor can we come to know God who is omnipresent via chanting which is a nicer way to say parroting.
"through repitition of the Naam, or chanting it we can come to know God"
.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited:

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
5,769
8,194
55
Gurfatehji,

just a thought, moving beyond the actual manner of getting to this state, what are your thoughts on the actual state itself
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Dec 21, 2010
3,384
5,689
Ambarsaria ji,
You use the word understanding...
What is this an understanding of? (having an understanding of what?)
Bhagat Singh ji that is easy to answer for me and here it goes in point form,

Understanding Definition for me: What, where, when, who and why


Understanding Goal in Sikhism
(called naam, waheguru, Guru, Gur, Prabh, Prabhu, etc.)

  • Of the creator with help from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
  • Of creation with help from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
  • Living in consonance with the understanding of the creator and creation so gotten and always developing further
    • Greater level of peace with self and others in creation through actions and decisions will reflect the level of one's understanding
    • Understanding will never be complete and one forever learns
    • Hence we will always make mistakes and the quantity may diminish over time through understanding
Sat Sri Akal
 
Last edited:

BhagatSingh

SPNer
Apr 24, 2006
2,921
1,655
Ambarsaria ji (and Tejwant Singh ji)
The kind of understanding that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is talking about isn't "What, where, when, who and why". Because this can be known quite easily through simply reading the text, and understanding in this way is only helpful if it gets you to direct perception of God, which is not an understanding but an actual perceiving of God. It is a ecstatic union with him. It is having a darsan, a revelation, an illumination. What, where when who or why do not matter here. It is a miraculous event. (Harry ji ;))

(pause)

Tricks of the intellect of defining, describing, naming, breaking down, understanding, logic and reasoning do not go very far. That is because intellect while playing an important role in getting one to union, is also getting in the the way of union. Intellect happens in the realm of duality. The way to beat intellect is not using further intellect but by relaxing the intellectual muscles of the mind, by relaxing the mind's conditioned reaction to everything. Chanting is a way of doing this.

If those who chant without understanding are stuck on the first level, then those who understand but do not chant are stuck on the second, there is yet a third level in which both come to dwell together.
(pause)

On chanting - http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/quest...th-and-sitting-darbar-sahib-4.html#post156855

Guru Sahib say that it is difficult to chant the True Name. This is not so much the actual act of saying but keeping your attention on the moment you say the Naam. keeping your attention on the sounds. gavieh sunieh man rakhieh bhau, Sing and listen and be filled with love - Japji, 5. Keeping your attention in the present, rather than letting it wander in the past or future. (Although to be in the present, you have to let your attention wander.) Chanting is a technique for doing this. Other traditions have different techniques as I have mentioned.

Forgetting the Naam, one is attached to duality. To truly chant the Naam, is to say the Naam while being present and completely detached.

(pause)

In a way, this is training. It is like the training of an athlete, who trains his body. Here we train our mind and learn to become still and learn to accept everything as good/God. (The anecdotes you present Tejwant Singh ji are of lazy athletes)

Only a still mind can see what it is taking for granted. Only when we see what we are taking for granted do we accept everything as good/God.

(pause)

This is true faith.

ਬਸੰਤੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਹਿੰਡੋਲ
बसंतु महला ५ घरु २ हिंडोल
Basanṯ mėhlā 5 gẖar 2 hindol
Basant, Fifth Mehl, Second House, Hindol:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਹੋਇ ਇਕਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥
होइ इकत्र मिलहु मेरे भाई दुबिधा दूरि करहु लिव लाइ ॥
Ho▫e ikaṯar milhu mere bẖā▫ī ḏubiḏẖā ḏūr karahu liv lā▫e.
Come and join together, O my Siblings of Destiny; dispel your sense of duality and let yourselves be lovingly absorbed in the Lord.

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੈ ਕੇ ਹੋਵਹੁ ਜੋੜੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਸਫਾ ਵਿਛਾਇ ॥੧॥
हरि नामै के होवहु जोड़ी गुरमुखि बैसहु सफा विछाइ ॥१॥
Har nāmai ke hovhu joṛī gurmukẖ baishu safā vicẖẖā▫e. ||1||
Let yourselves be joined to the Name of the Lord; become Gurmukh, spread out your mat, and sit down. ||1||

ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਪਾਸਾ ਢਾਲਹੁ ਬੀਰ ॥
इन्ह बिधि पासा ढालहु बीर ॥
Inĥ biḏẖ pāsā dẖālahu bīr.
In this way, throw the dice, O brothers.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਹ ਲਾਗੈ ਪੀਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
गुरमुखि नामु जपहु दिनु राती अंत कालि नह लागै पीर ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gurmukẖ nām japahu ḏin rāṯī anṯ kāl nah lāgai pīr. ||1|| rahā▫o.
As Gurmukh, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord, day and night. At the very last moment, you shall not have to suffer in pain. ||1||Pause||

ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਚਉਪੜਿ ਸਾਜਹੁ ਸਤੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥
करम धरम तुम्ह चउपड़ि साजहु सतु करहु तुम्ह सारी ॥
Karam ḏẖaram ṯumĥ cẖa▫upaṛ sājahu saṯ karahu ṯumĥ sārī.
Let righteous actions be your game board, and let the truth be your dice.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਜੀਤਹੁ ਐਸੀ ਖੇਲ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥੨॥
कामु क्रोधु लोभु मोहु जीतहु ऐसी खेल हरि पिआरी ॥२॥
Kām kroḏẖ lobẖ moh jīṯahu aisī kẖel har pi▫ārī. ||2||
Conquer sexual desire, anger, greed and worldly attachment; only such a game as this is dear to the Lord. ||2||

ਉਠਿ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕਰਹੁ ਪਰਭਾਤੇ ਸੋਏ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥
उठि इसनानु करहु परभाते सोए हरि आराधे ॥
Uṯẖ isnān karahu parbẖāṯe so▫e har ārāḏẖe.
Rise in the early hours of the morning, and take your cleansing bath. Before you go to bed at night, remember to worship the Lord.

ਬਿਖੜੇ ਦਾਉ ਲੰਘਾਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜ ਸੇਤੀ ਘਰਿ ਜਾਤੇ ॥੩॥
बिखड़े दाउ लंघावै मेरा सतिगुरु सुख सहज सेती घरि जाते ॥३॥
Bikẖ▫ṛe ḏā▫o langẖāvai merā saṯgur sukẖ sahj seṯī gẖar jāṯe. ||3||
My True Guru will assist you, even on your most difficult moves; you shall reach your true home in celestial peace and poise. ||3||

ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਖੇਲੈ ਆਪੇ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਪੇ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
हरि आपे खेलै आपे देखै हरि आपे रचनु रचाइआ ॥
Har āpe kẖelai āpe ḏekẖai har āpe racẖan racẖā▫i▫ā.
The Lord Himself plays, and He Himself watches; the Lord Himself created the creation.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜੋ ਨਰੁ ਖੇਲੈ ਸੋ ਜਿਣਿ ਬਾਜੀ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੯॥
जन नानक गुरमुखि जो नरु खेलै सो जिणि बाजी घरि आइआ ॥४॥१॥१९॥
Jan Nānak gurmukẖ jo nar kẖelai so jiṇ bājī gẖar ā▫i▫ā. ||4||1||19||
O servant Guru Nanak, that person who plays this game as Gurmukh, wins the game of life, and returns to his true home. ||4||1||19||
pg 1185

Dubida Door Karo Liv Laye - Bhai Harjinder Singh - YouTube
 
Last edited:
Oct 21, 2009
451
895
India
Findingmyway ji,

Kindly find the first sabad at ang 220 with small write up. I have not expanded as the purpose of Line 220-19 was included in the post to state the Bani contains reference to Ridhi and sidhi. However, as desired I am giving below the full sabad. I have also given some links to Naam that I understand in different context and shall post my views at appropriate time

Context to this Thread


Line 220-19 was posted to show that bani- contains a reference to Ridhi and sidhi i.e super natural powers. It is, however, not the aspiration of a sikh to attain these types of powers. These may be bye products and Bonus to a practitioner of Naam and bani. One may kindly refer to the post at the link:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-sikhism/37649-does-sikhism-embrace-mysticism-2.html

Post dated 25<sup>th</sup> November, 2011
Shabad at ang 220

Shabad at page 220 deals with various aspects of Sikhism and embraces within its fold many valuable concepts. I have taken the help of translation from Sant Sigh ji Khalsa .. As the sabad is fairly lengthy, to look at the lines up to Rahao and reflect on the essence of sabad

Concepts introduced that one may like to study further

Maya, Naam, spiritual wisdom, Jeevan Mukt., ego, Gurmukh, Manmukh, Hukum, His Grace

Full shabad in Gurmukhi reads as follows

rwgu gauVI AstpdIAw mhlw 1 gauVI guAwryrI (220-18)
Raag Gauree, Ashtapadees, First Mehl: Gauree Gwaarayree:
<> siqnwmu krqw purKu gur pRswid ] (220-18)
iniD isiD inrml nwmu bIcwru ] (220-19, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
pUrn pUir rihAw ibKu mwir ] (220-19, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
iqRkutI CUtI ibml mJwir ] (220-19, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
gur kI miq jIie AweI kwir ]1] (221-1, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
ien ibiD rwm rmq mnu mwinAw ] (221-1, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
igAwn AMjnu gur sbid pCwinAw ]1] rhwau ] (221-1, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
ieku suKu mwinAw shij imlwieAw ] (221-2, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
inrml bwxI Brmu cukwieAw ] (221-2, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
lwl Bey sUhw rMgu mwieAw ] (221-3, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
ndir BeI ibKu Twik rhwieAw ]2] (221-3, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
ault BeI jIvq mir jwigAw ] (221-3, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
sbid rvy mnu hir isau lwigAw ] (221-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
rsu sMgRih ibKu prhir iqAwigAw ] (221-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
Bwie bsy jm kw Bau BwigAw ]3] (221-4, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
swd rhy bwdM AhMkwrw ] (221-5, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
icqu hir isau rwqw hukim Apwrw ] (221-5, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
jwiq rhy piq ky Awcwrw ] (221-5, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
idRsit BeI suKu Awqm Dwrw ]4] (221-6, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
quJ ibnu koie n dyKau mIqu ] (221-6, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
iksu syvau iksu dyvau cIqu ] (221-6, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
iksu pUCau iksu lwgau pwie ] (221-7, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
iksu aupdyis rhw ilv lwie ]5] (221-7, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
gur syvI gur lwgau pwie ] (221-7, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
Bgiq krI rwcau hir nwie ] (221-8, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
isiKAw dIiKAw Bojn Bwau ] (221-8, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
hukim sMjogI inj Gir jwau ]6] (221-8, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
grb gqM suK Awqm iDAwnw ] (221-9, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
joiq BeI joqI mwih smwnw ] (221-9, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
ilKqu imtY nhI sbdu nIswnw ] (221-9, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
krqw krxw krqw jwnw ]7] (221-10, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
nh pMifqu nh cquru isAwnw ] (221-10, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
nh BUlo nh Brim Bulwnw ] (221-10, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
kQau n kQnI hukmu pCwnw ] (221-10, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
nwnk gurmiq shij smwnw ]8]1] (221-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 1)
Rahao Line
The nine treasures and the miraculous spiritual powers come by contemplating the Immaculate Naam, the Name of the Lord. One has to be above Maya for attaining the higher spiritual states. Lord, himself, helps His devotees to overcome the Maya, the fangs of whom would not torture the Gurmukh..Guru sahibs state further the significance of Gurmat and Guruvaaks. It is through contemplation of Gurbani and Guru sabad and Naam that one attains wisdom and bibek budhi and all that is stated above.

Sabad- In Brief as per my understanding


By HIS grace Maya and its influence can be annulled.One can attain the state of Jeevan Mukt by contemplating Bani and Naam. Gurmukh overcomes ego and his pursuit for physical possessions and worldly honor also comes to halt. It is through Guru’s Grace that one finds peace, solace and tranquility and mind realizes the His essence that becomes visible to the one who contemplates Naam and bani. In this state one finds only the Lord as the best friend and one remains immersed in His name. One realizes the self by engaging one self immersed in GurBani and Naam.. The pride in physical possessions becomes insipid and meaning less. Having overcome maya and ego the soul attains eternal peace and the fear of death vanishes. For some it is pre ordained and destined to realize Him in inner- self.

It is Gurmukh who realizes that all that is happening as per His Commend and order. Entire creation acts accordingly. Having understood this one attains peace and remains absorbed in Guru’s teachings. [/FONT]

General Observations

We have two set of opinions in regard to Naam and Practices. Some believe in chanting and some do not. Guru Granth sahib ji prescribes methods as to how Naam is to be practiced. The links with Extracts are provided for those who intend to proceed further .

I am providing few links for the kind perusal of those who are interested in further investigation. But Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji provides the final guide.

1. Following link tells us something about Naam.-post by Gogi
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/15726-concept-of-naam-in-sikhi.html

CONCEPT OF NAM IN Sikhi
According to Gurmat (Guru's teaching), before the creation, God lived Absolutely by Himself, Formless. When He made Himself manifest, He first formed Himself into NAM (Divine Name) and then created Nature. After creating Nature, He did not go away from it, rather He sustained His creation with His Own presence into it, and felt delighted.

  • "Aapinai aap sajio aapinai rachio Nao
    Dui kudrat sajiai kar asan ditho chao."
    (Asa Mohalla 1- pauri 1, p-463)
    "God created Himself and assumed Name
    Second besides Himself He created Nature
    Seated in Nature He watches with delight what He creates."

    (Translation of the above)
NAM (Divine Name) and God are not two different entities. Nam is just another aspect of the Almighty, still Formless. Nam is the total expression of all that God is. Nam sustains everything:

  • "Nam sustains and controls all beings

    Nam supports the universe and its regions."
    (Gauri Sukhmani Mohalla 5, 16-5, p-284)
Nam is not expressed as mere noun and it does not mean that there is a special name of God and by enchanting of which, one will meet Him. He is Infinite and can be called with infinite names, but who can count His infinite names? The enlightened and the blessed ones remember Him through His Attributes:

  • "Tav sarb nam kathai kavan
    Karm nam barnat sumat."
    (Guru Gobind Singh- Jap Sahib)
God may be called by countless names by the devotees, who create these names according to the attributes of their Godhead, but the first and the foremost name of God is clearly depicted as 'SAT' (Eternal Truth) which shows the ever-existence of God:

  • "Kirtam nam kathai terei jihba
    Satnam tera pra purbla."
    (Maru Mohalla 5, p-1083)
The word NAM is a mystic Word used in practical religious life and in discipline of meditation. God is remembered by His attributive names. There is another aspect of it called true Name which emanates from a prophet's personal experience. It emerges from a vision that the Prophet has of the Divine Being. Such a mystic Word in Sikh religion is called 'Waheguru' or Wonderful God or 'Thou art Wonderful'. True Name is not the word by which we describe an object, but the total power, quality and character of Reality. Through the word 'Waheguru' the prophet has tried to sum up mystic power and experience of His presence all around. Prophets have given us Divine Names of the nameless God, which reflect His presence in our consciousness. Contemplation or meditation on true Name (Waheguru) is called practicing the presence of God in one's conscious.

  • Gurbani is Nam: "Gurmukh bani Nam hai.."
    (Sarang ki Var-pauri, p-1239)
    Gurbani is Guru:
    "Bani Guru, Guru hai Bani..."
    (Nat Mohalla 4, p-982)
    Gurbani is Nirankar:
    "Wauh wauh bani nirankar hai Tis jiwad avar na koi."
    (Slok Mohalla 3, p-515)
    'Wauh wauh Bani is the Formless One
    There is none as great as He."
    (Translation of the above)
    Gurbani is every Nad and Ved:

    "Sabh nad beid gurbani Man rata sarang pani."
    (Ramkli Mohalla 1, p-879)
It is, therefore, Nam that ultimately leads a person to Eternal Bliss. For God consciousness, one must come in contact with Nam, but without Guru one cannot attain Nam and would wander away in the darkness.

2. Post by Roopk
2. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/gurmat-vichaar/15726-concept-of-naam-in-sikhi-2.html


Sikhism and Monotheism

The article "Naam and Sabad" was published in the journal "Studies In Sikhism and Comparative Religion" a publication of the Guru Nanak Foundation, New Delhi. The author Sardar Daljeet Singh was formerly Secretary to the Government of Punjab, Department of Education. The following are some excerpts:


(i) God in Sikhism is Monotheistic. God is both "Transcendent" and "Immanent" and the world is his Creation.

(ii) The Transcendent God expresed Himself in "Naam" and "Sabad" that created the world.

(iii) "Naam" and "Sabad" are the 'Creative and Dynamic Immanence of God'.


(iv) The Sikh Gurus have clearly emphasized the transcendental character of God by saying that the world was created in time and space and the Transcendental God had been there while the world was uncreated. It is also stated that the "Word" was in God when there was no universe or form. "Naam" was prior to the creation of the universe i.e. "God manifested into Naam, after it the world was created."

(v) In no religious Scripture the distinction between the transcendent and the immanent aspects of God is made more clear than in the Guru Granth because God's Immanence has been given separate names viz. Naam, Will and Word. Evidently, all immanence can be expressed only in relation to the realm of creation i.e. when God's immanence as Naam creates, sustains and controls the world of name and form; when God's immanence as His Will moves and directs the becoming world; when His Immanence as His Word informs and supports the universe. In short, "He (God) is pervading everywhere (Immanent) and yet He is beyond everything, beyond pleasure and pain(Transcendent)."

(vi) Throughout the hymns of Guru Granth, nothing is more significant than acceptance of Creature-Creator relation between man and God. Invariably, God has been addressed as "Thou", "Father", "Mother", "Beloved" etc. Infact, a majority of the hymns are in the form of prayers, addresed to God........So much so that the Guru calls himself as the "lowliest of the low", and never does he mention another person as "That is Thou". The fifth Guru declined to include in the Guru Granth a hymn of Bhagat Kaanhaa, saying, "I am He, O I am the same", because the Guru felt it to be contrary to the Sikh thesis that man is not and cannot be God though he can be His instrument.

3.Post by Amarpal ji.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-youth/8672-naam-my-understanding.html

4.Nam Japo..sikhi wiki..
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Naam_japo

Naam and Naam Japo or Naam Japna - Is the remembrance of God by repeating and focussing the mind on His name or identity. The names given to God primarily refer to the attributes of the Almighty and His various qualities. The guideline in the Rehit Mariyada of Guru Gobind Singh demands that the Sikh engages in Naam Simran as part of his or her everyday routine………………………….
………………………………
Naam is not mere repetition of God's name. It is opposed to roop ("form") adopted by those indulging in idol worship. Naam here stands for attribute/s. It is a noun which describes the qualities of a person, thing, the Lord. We find many such forms in Mool Mantra. Naam Simran therefore is to concentrate on attributes of Waheguru and realize his grandeur and mercy. It leads to our realization of reality and its acceptance. Guru Granth Sahib further elaborates how realizing God's nature through the recital of his Name leads us to happiness and bliss, rather than being in the wilderness of idol worship or such other meaningless rituals.

5.Satnam

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sat_Naam

Naam | ਨਾਮੁ


  • Naam literally means, the Name(singular). A fuller definition of the word can only be found within the Guru Granth Sahib itself. Naam is God’s Word, or the Divine Essence. Etymologically, the word has a striking resemblance with the Greek neumena or the Bright Essence as opposed to phenomena. Naam is not merely the ‘Name of God’ as is commonly believed; it symbolizes the Being of God filling all Creation. Naam is also referred to as Shabad in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

  • Where there was no creation, there was nothing in existence – no air, light, water, earth or space. God existed alone in deep meditation and self absorption. When God willed for the manifestations of his values, He created universes, worlds and all material and other living beings by uttering a single Word.

    His Word is all pervasive and the sole source of all Creation; the Word created the universes and supports and sustains all things within them. The Sri Guru Granth Sahib further enlightens us that God’s Word turned into waves of light, rays of which are present in all creatures and all other parts of His creation. This is consistent with a fundamental principle of physics that sound vibrations, when increased several fold, change into waves of light.

  • This Essence / Naam / Shabad / Logus is formless, colorless, and featureless but, as said, is present in all creation. There is no plant, no creature, in what it is not. The Earth and other heavenly bodies exist because there is Naam in this universe and when God withdraws this Naam from this Universe, there are natural calamities (Parloh / Mahaparloh) all over the universe and this is the time that the universe perishes and all the living creatures perish.

    Being so, the Essence can’t be seen or visualised by the mind. We can see only the physical dimension of Reality in God’s Creation – mountains, plants, trees, creatures etc. Thus the Outer Shell of Reality holds us (the appearances delude us) and we cannot penetrate deeper to experience the all pervading Reality. The physical dimensions of Reality (the outer shell) is always in flux; it keeps changing. While birth, death, creation, destruction etc. occur in the physical dimensions of creation, the Essence, being Sat (Sat-Naam) never changes, it transcends space and time.

  • We cannot focus our mind or attention on God, who is Absolute, the invisible Essence. The Naam (SHABD), the Name of God is the only medium available to us for approaching Him.

  • The term Naam refers to 5 realms / domains / functional groups / aspects / phases of GOD's CREATION. A human being has to pass through first four realms and finally be accountable to GOD in the realm of SachKhand (literally 'TRUE Phase').

  • SachKhand is perceived to be a realm where GOD seeks account of TRUTHs & Falsities earned by the soul during one's life. Based on this account, GOD rules out disposal of each individual soul for times to come. Truthful souls become part of GOD for ever & never ever get into the cycle of rebirth.

  • Others not having fared well & having lived life as per their own(& not as per GOD's prewritten commandments which accompanied the soul when it was born as a human being.) will are recycled back to be born again as a 'non human' being.

  • The soul thereafter stays in the cycle of death & rebirth as per GOD's Scheme of things. GOD willing, he gets born as human being again and the soul gets another chance to fare well this time by staying in harmony with GOD's commandments through the human life span & so on..

  • TRUE essence of the meaning of Naam can only be realized by believing in & understanding the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. All who get Naam from the 'Shabad Guru' intuitively discard Falsehood & earn the wealth of Naam through one's life time. When we earn Naam, our soul starts responding to it. It is through Naam that we are able to think of Him, remember Him & live life as per His (& not our own )WILL (ie: Manmukh v Gurmukh).

  • In other words, the Naam is God Himself, subjected to our limited powers of perception and thought and to the capacities of our body and mind. Because we are endowed with the capacity to utter and attentively listen, the continuous recitation of and attentive listening to the Naam (Gurbani) focuses our mind on the object of invocation, resulting in a ceaseless remembrance of God (DHYAAN). This Dhyaan, in turn, results in complete absorption of our consciousness on the thought of God, who responds to our earnest invocation and He reveals Himself in our inner being.

  • The revelation of the Essence of Reality within us is the revelation of Naam. When the revelation of Naam occurs within, the devotee sees the Essence of God pervading throughout His Creation.

  • Gurus have taught that their teachings are for all the religion ( varnas )and all have the right to get the teachings of the Gurus.
To Initiate our soul so that it starts towards the ultimate goal (SACHKHAND) a person has to repeatedly and continuously earn the wealth of Naam, and to cherish it in the heart all the time – this is the essence of prayer and devotion to God.

  • In Gurbani, the word Gurshabad or [[Shabad] is synonymous with Naam. Without ceaselessly earning the wealth of Naam, God cannot be realised.
6. Arm your self with knowledge
http://www.info-sikh.com/PageKnow7.html

First, define Hinduism, there are as many definitions as there are people.
Hinduism like Sikhism says that there is only one God but they have lost sight of this, the deities that the Hindus worship represent various attributes of the one God. God has many attributes, such as the creator, destroyer and the cherisher, however, God in Sikhism is Nirankaar. This means that God is without form. God cannot be reduced to thought as revealed in Japji Sahib. (Sochai Soch na Howi Je Sochi Lakh Waar) God in Sikhism is described as Alakh, indescribable, and Apaar, infinite.
For an experiment, can someone count to infinite? Impossible.
Guru Granth Sahib Ji reveals that many people have tried to find the limits of the infinite Lord but have failed. Therefore, God is described differently in Sikhism as compared to Hinduism. In Sikhism, God's virtues and attributes are infinite and therefore cannot be counted and summed to equal a whole. In Hinduism, the various deities worshipped represent a particular attribute of god, in Sikhism only the whole is worshipped by acknowledging the vastness of God through the revealed Shabad, or the word of God.
This is where the concept of Naam comes in, something which does not exist in Hinduism and as such is a fundamental difference between the two faiths.

In Sikhism Naam is of the utmost importance, without it no liberation of the soul can take place.
What is the concept of Naam in Sikhism:


Naam is a very deep and integral part of Sikh belief. If one reads the English translation of Naam, it says Name. This is true but does not explain Naam completely. This is because Naam is the essence of God, in Sikhism God is Alakh, unfathomable, Apaar, infinite. Naam is not just the Name, but also, truthful living, truthful speaking, seeing the truth in every single being, breathing the truth, eating truth, totally immersed in the truth. In the first line of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, it says ‘SatNaam,’ that God's name is Truth.
Naam is also a way of life in Sikhism.
Let's do another experiment/demonstration, describe your mother.
A mother is someone who feeds you when you are hungry (sustainer), comforts you when you are sad (cherisher), protects you from danger and harm (protector). Now, when someone asks us, who is that woman? We say that is my mother. We do not say, that is the lady that protects me, feeds me, cherishes me, etc. The title of "Mother" is very informative and all the qualities associated with the name are understood without explanation.
So it is in Sikhism, the Naam, or the Name is very important. What is that name, SatNaam, the true name. The name is Waheguru, Satnam, Akal Purkh, Kartar, Narain, Nirankar etc. The Name describes the Lord and all the Lord's glorious attributes, infinite in number. Meditation and repartition of the Name brings one closer to the one God and all his attributes. In Sikhism one receives this Naam, from God, or from the Satguru, true guru, the perfect guru or the revealed word of God, Guru Granth Sahib Ji. baani guru, guru hai baani - The word of God is Guru, and Guru is the word of God.


Further investigation would be meaningful if some guidance is provided by Seniors.



tjs
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Jun 30, 2004
5,028
7,188
Henderson, NV.
Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

(The anecdotes you present Tejwant Singh ji are of lazy athletes)

Thanks for being judgemental. Is this part of your parroting routine?

Secondly, the beautiful Shabad you posted has nothing to do with parroting/chanting as you have been advocating like a Mantra.

The Shabad is all about realising, understanding, accepting and putting in practice the Shabad Guru. There is no mystery to it.

You again forgot to share your understanding about this Shabad. I am still waiting for your understanding in your own words about the previous one.

Give it a try or is this your definition of a lazy athlete? :)

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
Last edited:

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

❤️ CLICK HERE TO JOIN SPN MOBILE PLATFORM

📌 For all latest updates, follow the Official Sikh Philosophy Network Whatsapp Channel:
Top