I have some sympathy for badshah ji since I have been mulling over asking a similar question myself the last couple of weeks. I would not like to be called naive.
What I write is my personal opinion, I haven't tested my theory or read enough to really know. But it may provide other avenues to develop the discussion.
In this thread, I got the impression that So Dar is a shabad which paints a stunning picture of creation as it is an amazing symphony in praise of the Creator. Like a whole heap of dishes made by the Great Chef. Like a whole ton of different musical instruments, all playing their music following the Great Conductor. I apologise if I lack understanding and haven't got the message of the earlier thread.
But check out the tuks in Green...
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ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧
So ḏar rāg āsā mėhlā 1
So Dar ~ That Door. Raag Aasaa, First Mehl:
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ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
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ਸੋ ਦਰੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਕੇਹਾ ਸੋ ਘਰੁ ਕੇਹਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਬਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥
So ḏar ṯerā kehā so gẖar kehā jiṯ bahi sarab samāle.
Where is That Door of Yours and where is That Home, in which You sit and take care of all?
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ਵਾਜੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਦ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਸੰਖਾ ਕੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਵਾਵਣਹਾਰੇ ॥
vāje ṯere nāḏ anek asankẖā keṯe ṯere vāvaṇhāre.
The Sound-current of the Naad vibrates there for You, and countless musicians play all sorts of instruments there for You.
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ਕੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਰਾਗ ਪਰੀ ਸਿਉ ਕਹੀਅਹਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਗਾਵਣਹਾਰੇ ॥
Keṯe ṯere rāg parī si▫o kahī▫ahi keṯe ṯere gāvaṇhāre.
There are so many Ragas and musical harmonies to You; so many minstrels sing hymns of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੁ ਗਾਵੈ ਰਾਜਾ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਆਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno pavaṇ pāṇī baisanṯar gāvai rājā ḏẖaram ḏu▫āre.
Wind, water and fire sing of You. The Righteous Judge of Dharma sings at Your Door.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਚਿਤੁ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਲਿਖਿ ਜਾਣਨਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਲਿਖਿ ਧਰਮੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno cẖiṯ gupaṯ likẖ jāṇan likẖ likẖ ḏẖaram bīcẖāre.
Chitr and Gupt, the angels of the conscious and the subconscious who keep the record of actions, and the Righteous Judge of Dharma who reads this record, sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਈਸਰੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਦੇਵੀ ਸੋਹਨਿ ਤੇਰੇ ਸਦਾ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno īsar barahmā ḏevī sohan ṯere saḏā savāre.
Shiva, Brahma and the Goddess of Beauty, ever adorned by You, sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਸਣਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਦਰਿ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno inḏar inḏarāsaṇ baiṯẖe ḏeviṯi▫ā ḏar nāle.
Indra, seated on His Throne, sings of You, with the deities at Your Door.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਧੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਸਾਧ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno siḏẖ samāḏẖī anḏar gāvan ṯuḏẖno sāḏẖ bīcẖāre.
The Siddhas in Samaadhi sing of You; the Saadhus sing of You in contemplation.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਸੰਤੋਖੀ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਵੀਰ ਕਰਾਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno jaṯī saṯī sanṯokẖī gāvan ṯuḏẖno vīr karāre.
The celibates, the fanatics, and the peacefully accepting sing of You; the fearless warriors sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪੜਨਿ ਰਖੀਸੁਰ ਜੁਗੁ ਜੁਗੁ ਵੇਦਾ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno pandiṯ paṛan rakẖīsur jug jug veḏā nāle.
The Pandits, the religious scholars who recite the Vedas, with the supreme sages of all the ages, sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਮੋਹਣੀਆ ਮਨੁ ਮੋਹਨਿ ਸੁਰਗੁ ਮਛੁ ਪਇਆਲੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno mohṇī▫ā man mohan surag macẖẖ pa▫i▫āle.
The Mohinis, the enchanting heavenly beauties who entice hearts in paradise, in this world, and in the underworld of the subconscious, sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਰਤਨ ਉਪਾਏ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno raṯan upā▫e ṯere aṯẖsaṯẖ ṯirath nāle.
The celestial jewels created by You, and the sixty-eight sacred shrines of pilgrimage, sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਜੋਧ ਮਹਾਬਲ ਸੂਰਾ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਖਾਣੀ ਚਾਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno joḏẖ mahābal sūrā gāvan ṯuḏẖno kẖāṇī cẖāre.
The brave and mighty warriors sing of You. The spiritual heroes and the four sources of creation sing of You.
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ਗਾਵਨਿ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਖੰਡ ਮੰਡਲ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਾ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਖੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਧਾਰੇ ॥
Gāvan ṯuḏẖno kẖand mandal barahmandā kar kar rakẖe ṯere ḏẖāre.
The worlds, solar systems and galaxies, created and arranged by Your Hand, sing of You.
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ਸੇਈ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਜੋ ਤੁਧੁ ਭਾਵਨਿ ਰਤੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਭਗਤ ਰਸਾਲੇ ॥
Se▫ī ṯuḏẖno gāvan jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvan raṯe ṯere bẖagaṯ rasāle.
They alone sing of You, who are pleasing to Your Will. Your devotees are imbued with Your Sublime Essence.
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ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਤੁਧਨੋ ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸੇ ਮੈ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਨਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਿਆ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥
Hor keṯe ṯuḏẖno gāvan se mai cẖiṯ na āvan Nānak ki▫ā bīcẖāre.
So many others sing of You, they do not come to mind. O Nanak, how can I think of them all?
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ਸੋਈ ਸੋਈ ਸਦਾ ਸਚੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਚੀ ਨਾਈ ॥
So▫ī so▫ī saḏā sacẖ sāhib sācẖā sācẖī nā▫ī.
That True Lord is True, forever True, and True is His Name.
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ਹੈ ਭੀ ਹੋਸੀ ਜਾਇ ਨ ਜਾਸੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਚਾਈ ॥
Hai bẖī hosī jā▫e na jāsī racẖnā jin racẖā▫ī.
He is, and shall always be. He shall not depart, even when this Universe which He has created departs.
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ਰੰਗੀ ਰੰਗੀ ਭਾਤੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਿਨਿ ਉਪਾਈ ॥
Rangī rangī bẖāṯī kar kar jinsī mā▫i▫ā jin upā▫ī.
He created the world, with its various colors, species of beings, and the variety of Maya.
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ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਕੀਤਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਜਿਉ ਤਿਸ ਦੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
Kar kar ḏekẖai kīṯā āpṇā ji▫o ṯis ḏī vadi▫ā▫ī.
Having created the creation, He watches over it Himself, by His Greatness.
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ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਸੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਕਰਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥
Jo ṯis bẖāvai so▫ī karsī fir hukam na karṇā jā▫ī.
He does whatever He pleases. No one can issue any order to Him.
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ਸੋ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਸਾਹਾ ਪਤਿਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਹਣੁ ਰਜਾਈ ॥੧॥
So pāṯisāhu sāhā paṯisāhib Nānak rahaṇ rajā▫ī. ||1||
He is the King, the King of kings, the Supreme Lord and Master of kings. Nanak remains subject to His Will. ||1|| </td></tr></tbody></table>
My personal interpretation of this has been an acknowledgement of the existence of these deities just as acknowledgement of the other countless things within Creation, under GOD, the KING.
So even if they do/did exist, they mean no more than bears or fish or wind or celibates or music or stars, etcetc. They are Creation same as you and me and we are ALL under the command of THE BIG ONE.
My ancestral background doesn't include Hindu deities, so when I read this I extend the interpretation to the Norse Gods, the Greek Gods, the Celtic Gods...
But their influence is nothing compared to Waheguru's influence. What they do is what It commands them to do. They can't liberate us.
Also, I've read that where Brahma, Shiva and Indra are mentioned in shabads, it can be read as 'creation' 'destruction' and 'preservation' as forces which helps to de-personalise those gods.
But why bother about worrying about it, when all you have to do is think about Waheguru, Naam, Hukam? Those gods become small, you become small, and all there really is is God.
I liked what Confused said about them being within the confines of time. Isn't that what Chaupai also says?
ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਪੁ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੂ ਅਵਤਰਾ ॥
काल पाइ ब्रहमा बपु धरा ॥ काल पाइ शिवजू अवतरा ॥
In due time Brahma appeared in physical form; in due time Shiva incarnated;
ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਕਰਿ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ਾ ॥ ਸਕਲ ਕਾਲ ਕਾ ਕੀਯਾ ਤਮਾਸ਼ਾ ॥੩੮੩॥
काल पाइ करि बिशन प्रकाशा ॥ सकल काल का कीया तमाशा ॥३८३॥
In due time Vishnu manifested himself; all this is the play of the Temporal Lord.383.
ਜਵਨ ਕਾਲ ਜੋਗੀ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਕੀਯੋ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਰਾਜ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਜੂ ਥੀਯੋ ॥
जवन काल जोगी शिव कीयो ॥ बेद राज ब्रहमा जू थीयो ॥
The Temporal Lord, who created Shiva, the Yogi; who created Brahma, the Master of the Vedas;
ਜਵਨ ਕਾਲ ਸਭ ਲੋਕ ਸਵਾਰਾ ॥ ਨਮਸ਼ਕਾਰ ਹੈ ਤਾਹਿ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥੩੮੪॥
जवन काल सभ लोक सवारा ॥ नमशकार है ताहि हमारा ॥३८४॥
The Temporal Lord who fashioned the entire world; I salute the same Lord.384.
ਜਵਨ ਕਾਲ ਸਭ ਜਗਤ ਬਨਾਯੋ ॥ ਦੇਵ ਦੈਤ ਜੱਛਨ ਉਪਜਾਯੋ ॥
जवन काल सभ जगत बनायो ॥ देव दैत ज्छन उपजायो ॥
The Temporal Lord, who created the whole world; who created gods, demons and yakshas;
ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਏਕੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥ ਸੋਈ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਮਝਿਯਹੁ ਹਮਾਰਾ ॥੩੮੫॥
आदि अंति एकै अवतारा ॥ सोई गुरू समझियहु हमारा ॥३८५॥
He is the only one form the beginning to the end; I consider Him only my Guru.385.
Please excuse my ignorance, sorry if I'm leading others up the garden path!!
Ishna
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