Does Religion Oppress Women?

[otilia]

The question is about "power".... organized, dogmatic religions .. who are ruled by men.... oppress women.... As I always thought the all institutions, state churches... organized themselves to rule, govern... get power.... so the only thing to avoid oppression is "Education"..... If not the rulers ....of every area empower them based on the ignorance...
:happykaur:

 

[ballym]

Power is natural to men. We should try to channelize it so that *** does to result in opressionof women/ children , poor.... ( sorry for categorizing in same group)

 

[Lee]

Bhagat ji,

Some very good points.

I think you must ask this question.

If there was no religion would woman be oppresed by man?

The answer must surly be yes. I have seen Athiest couples where the woman is subserviant to men. How do we explain that?

I have seen Christian couples where both the man and the woman share a true equal partnership. How to explain this?

Well I belive I can explian. Again it is al down to people and mindsets. We know that even homophopic Christians who quote Levicitus to validate their hatred still eat shelfish. This shows that religious dogma does not have the great pull that you assume it does.

I think primarily it comes down to misunderstanding such dogma. I'll go a little close to the rules of the forum here and suggest that any passages in any holy text like the ones you have provided for us comes from mankind and not from God.

The God that I have a perception of is a loving God, a little logic provides the question, why would a loving God seek to have Man put upon Woman? The answer is a loving God would not. So then any direction in scripture that seems to run contrary to this is either false, or minsinturpreted.

Most scripture (I think) should not be read literaly, but seen as metaphor.

So to your second question. I think that perhaps I have half answered it already but, I would say that religion is used as an excuse for female oppression by those who follow blindly without thought as to logics of such 'commands'.

Blind faith is worthless (in my opinion) to not use the God given brain, well that seems a great sin to me.

Yes you are very correct Bhgat ji, it does take reasoning to change religion. I strongly agree with you here. Religion will change, of course it will, it must if it is to survive, yet there is an inherent qunadry in this.

How far can a religion change if it is taught that it's written tenants come from God? Obviously not far, yet I belive in that old maxim 'God does not give you what you want but what you need'.

God has provided us all with many ways to reach for God, and seemingly as the populations ideas and ideals change then up pops another 'prothet' to show us the slightly new direction. I have no reason to belive that this will not occour over and over and over agian untill we all get the message.

 

[Lee]

thats rubbish. Religions only strives to halt opression when everyone is part of that religion. By that time there already is a an opressed group in society.

AusDesi Ji,

Umm again a very salient point, not one I agree with though. Relgion, when we use this word to say something about religion, then what we say must be true of all religion yes?

We know that Sikhi preaches against femal oppresion as well as other oppresions. So this particular religion strives to halt oppresion even if you are not Sikh.

As to the oppressed, well yes there are all sorts of oppressed people in the world and I say that the vast majority of them suffer not at the hands of relgion nor even relgious ideas, but simply at the hands of their fellow men.

 

[otilia]

I belive it´s all about power or empower yourself (as society, individual, institution, church) to dominate others..... it apllies to all he only way to avoid, or escape from them is education, enlightment.... :happykaur:
Otilia

 

[thecoopes]

Religion is a well of poison, those that drink deeply from it become sick and their humanity dies, they have become the drones of religious dogma; all believe their dogma is the sole truth, any man woman or child that is outside their perceived version of truth is expendable.
Therefore religion oppresses everyone; the more you have of it the more intolerant you become. The poorly educated and the ignorant become very sick; this is why the believers in third world countries are so fanatical and at times barbaric. Education is the antidote.

 

[kds1980]

Religion is a well of poison, those that drink deeply from it become sick and their humanity dies, they have become the drones of religious dogma; all believe their dogma is the sole truth, any man woman or child that is outside their perceived version of truth is expendable.

All religions are Different their teachings are different.Those categorise Religions as one are no Different from Fanatic muslim to whom all non muslims are kafirs

Therefore religion oppresses everyone; the more you have of it the more intolerant you become. The poorly educated and the ignorant become very sick; this is why the believers in third world countries are so fanatical and at times barbaric. Education is the antidote.

There are many Religious people who do lot of charity whether it is out of fear or because of Religion.Mother Teresa has so much christianity inside was she most intolerant?

he poorly educated and the ignorant become very sick; this is why the believers in third world countries are so fanatical and at times barbaric

Majority Of these fanatical are muslims.You don't have courage to use word Muslim that's why you use word religion.Anyway in Third world people are fanatical about their culture and language too.Go to south India and make fun of Hinduism nothing will happen to you,
but then Make fun of Tamil language and Tamilians will tear you apart in pieces even the Atheists one.At Present in India there many Disputes where Religion is nowhere near around
Marathi Hindu Don't want Bihari Hindu to come to Bombay,Telengana Telgu want's to separate fron other Telgu people.So I am sorry to say your propaganda is quite baseless

 

[Sinister]

Considering the fact that woman do not make up a significant portion of the Sikh priesthood (pracharak class); How does the asymmetrically male inclined historical literature, the entrenched male institutional hierarchy and the generally accepted philosophical tenents of sikhism act as agents in preventing sexual equality or inhibiting upward social mobility for sikh females in the 21 stcentury?


Do sikh woman have a particular sexual identity that has gained social consciousness to form norms of acceptable social behaviour? How do these internal sex related social pressures inhibit woman from upward social mobility?

there is a thesis just itching for a poor chump (in search for a doctorate) to come along and examine it.

*ponders*

ahh...to lazy...let someone else do it...male work ethic

 

[Lee]

Religion is a well of poison, those that drink deeply from it become sick and their humanity dies, they have become the drones of religious dogma; all believe their dogma is the sole truth, any man woman or child that is outside their perceived version of truth is expendable.
Therefore religion oppresses everyone; the more you have of it the more intolerant you become. The poorly educated and the ignorant become very sick; this is why the believers in third world countries are so fanatical and at times barbaric. Education is the antidote.

Well that my friend is a massivly generalist statement and for it to be a valid one you need to show that it is true of all religions and all religious people.

Hello I'm Lee, a 41 year old white convert to Sikhi, I am fully human with a love for humanity. Indeed how can it be otherwise? My religious dogma teachs me that God resides in all people and so I have no choice but to love all of humanity. My dogma is but one kernal of the whole truth there, I belive that any religion is a valid one and that the important thing is to love God. In loving God one must attempt to love all, so you see no one is expendable.

I do agree with this one thing though, education is the key for many of societies ills.

So my freind we can see that as I just one man (and belive me there are many that feel the same way as me out there) do not exhibite any of the signs you say make religioin a posionous well, that your proposition must be false.

 

[spnadmin]

Why posting in Size 5 font?

 

[Lee]

Why posting in Size 5 font?

Who me?
It all looks fine my end I can see no differane between posts.

 

[spnadmin]

Lee ji

It must be browser preferences then. The default font size is 1 and your post and that of Sinister is showing up as size 5 on my end. I will fix it.

 

[Admin]

Narayanjot ji, the default font size is 2... 1 is very very small... FYI please.

 

[thecoopes]

All religions are Different their teachings are different.Those categorise Religions as one are no Different from Fanatic muslim to whom all non muslims are kafirs.


True their teachings are different, however their religious insanity is the same. Religion takes away freewill all become part of the religious collective where the individual mind is controlled by the collective, this is why when it goes bad all follow like programmed drones.



There are many Religious people who do lot of charity whether it is out of fear or because of Religion.Mother Teresa has so much christianity inside was she most intolerant?


People are good not because of religion, mother Teresa would have been good whether she was a Christian or not.


Majority Of these fanatical are muslims.You don't have courage to use word Muslim that's why you use word religion.Anyway in Third world people are fanatical about their culture and language too.Go to south India and make fun of Hinduism nothing will happen to you,
but then Make fun of Tamil language and Tamilians will tear you apart in pieces even the Atheists one.At Present in India there many Disputes where Religion is nowhere near around
Marathi Hindu Don't want Bihari Hindu to come to Bombay,Telengana Telgu want's to separate fron other Telgu people.So I am sorry to say your propaganda is quite baseless

<FONT color=black><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=3>

Muslim Muslim Muslim, I don’t understand what your point is?
Hindus murder Christians: http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2008/09/hindu-extremists-murder-christians-in.html<?"urn: Live Long and Prosper "

 

[kds1980]

Muslim Muslim Muslim, I don’t understand what your point is?

Please Re read your post ,you mentioned third world not India or Orissa.If you will take all third world countries then you will 2 dominant Religions Islam and Christianity.Yes Orissa do have History on attacks on Christians but in Entire India you will find more people of 1 state Attacking people of other states irrespective of Religions.

 

[thecoopes]

Well that my friend is a massivly generalist statement and for it to be a valid one you need to show that it is true of all religions and all religious people.

Hello I'm Lee, a 41 year old white convert to Sikhi, I am fully human with a love for humanity. Indeed how can it be otherwise? My religious dogma teachs me that God resides in all people and so I have no choice but to love all of humanity. My dogma is but one kernal of the whole truth there, I belive that any religion is a valid one and that the important thing is to love God. In loving God one must attempt to love all, so you see no one is expendable.

I do agree with this one thing though, education is the key for many of societies ills.

So my freind we can see that as I just one man (and belive me there are many that feel the same way as me out there) do not exhibite any of the signs you say make religioin a posionous well, that your proposition must be false.

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">hi lee, i thought this would put the cat among the pigeons,<?"urn:

It is a generalisation, however the reason religion is so dangerous is that it is a small step from united community to rampaging mob, especially as those with a religious belief are absolved of sin when butchering their fellow man, as it always is a service to god.

The vast majority of good people in religion are exactly that, good people in religion.
Unfortunately mankind in general prefers to have people think for them, so if there was no religion they would be part of another collective.

: DEVILS COOK BOOK:
Take one Muslim and add a Sikh plus a Christian stir for a couple of hundred years add the Koran and the Bible then turn up the heat until it boils. Add a spoonful of intolerance and a pinch of hatred then leave to simmer for centuries.

This recipe will serve generations and is guaranteed to poison mankind and kill millions.

It works just as well with all religions and you can vary the ingredients but the results are the same.


fficeffice" /> peace

 

[ballym]

Considering the fact that woman do not make up a significant portion of the Sikh priesthood (pracharak class); How does the asymmetrically male inclined historical literature, the entrenched male institutional hierarchy and the generally accepted philosophical tenents of sikhism act as agents in preventing sexual equality or inhibiting upward social mobility for sikh females in the 21 st<SUP> </SUP>century?

Does EQUALITY mean doing every thing a male usually does? We should have female prachark but it is not essential to have in equal numbers.
Equality means equal respect and value to whatever role a female plays. Our economic system does not put true value to household work, child rearing and other jobs done by women.may be that is the reason why a female is called Durga and given topmost place so that some sense of equality is reached.
In western world it is partially recognised in a oblique way when a working women needs to pay for child care, husband has to pickup kid from school etc.
But we must accept that roles for male and female are different . Real need is to give due recognition and value to every person's role in society and economy.
If male has brute power,he has it. No one can deny it. Can or should women try to be equal in it?
If women are more compassionate, should males try to be equal?
Why do not men apply heavy make-up?
A couple is ideal when each fills the gap of other and makes it whole. That is why a male needs a female and a female needs a male. Nature/God has made it so.
Why are we trying to change that by seeking eye-for -eye equality?
But the problem is that current value system gives more value to MEN's work and thus becomes the origin of opresssion.
Same goes with children/elders/ poor.

 

[otilia]

Unfortunatelly that value system is stablished by men.....
Otilia:happykaur:

 

[BhagatSingh]

There are many Religious people who do lot of charity whether it is out of fear or because of Religion.Mother Teresa has so much christianity inside was she most intolerant?


People are good not because of religion, mother Teresa would have been good whether she was a Christian or not.

It turned out she wasn't Christian at all, a very non-religious person.

 

[Lee]

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">hi lee, i thought this would put the cat among the pigeons,<?"urn:

It is a generalisation, however the reason religion is so dangerous is that it is a small step from united community to rampaging mob, especially as those with a religious belief are absolved of sin when butchering their fellow man, as it always is a service to god.

The vast majority of good people in religion are exactly that, good people in religion.
Unfortunately mankind in general prefers to have people think for them, so if there was no religion they would be part of another collective.

: DEVILS COOK BOOK:
Take one Muslim and add a Sikh plus a Christian stir for a couple of hundred years add the Koran and the Bible then turn up the heat until it boils. Add a spoonful of intolerance and a pinch of hatred then leave to simmer for centuries.

This recipe will serve generations and is guaranteed to poison mankind and kill millions.

It works just as well with all religions and you can vary the ingredients but the results are the same.


fficeffice" /> peace

Heh my freind, I can of course see what you mean, I think it wrong to think as you do though.

Mankind has violence very close under the skin, it is offten amongst the very first of tools we use for sorting out our problems. Anything then that is divisive can be used as an excuse for very bad behaviuor.

Religoin, can yes of course, it can and it does and I fear that may ever be the case, we only need to examine our histories to see that.

Yet so can football, national patriotism, sexual preferance, the colour of the skin, gender, age, pollitics, in fact any idea that has an opposing idea can and does cause us to act and react in violant ways.

Yet we can fix these things. Here in the 20 or 30 odd years ago, we had a massive footbal violnce problem, now it is much better.

Football has sorted itself out. They have done it but not tollerating bad behavoiur amongst themselves.

Religions can do this, indeed I have seem many moderate Muslims condeming the fanatics who kill in thye name of Islam.

Like most things, ideas are simply not to blame, it is how people act and react to these ideas.