Hi, Cutting to the chase do sikhs believe in heaven and hell like if you do bad you go hell, if you do good you go heaven because some sikhs say 'no heaven and hell is on earth and we only believe in reincarnation and your deeds in this life will dertimine how good or bad your next life will be' and then some sikhs say 'yes sikhs do believe in heaven and hell and that if you commit bad deeds you will go to hell and if you commit good deeds you will go to heaven' so im confused with this question?
Do Sikhs Believe In Heaven Or Hell Or Not?
Sikhs are humans....why listen to some human ? why not go to the source..the GURU ? The SGGS for the true and right answers.
secondly the GURBANI is for LIVING....so LIVE the WAY Gurbani says..change LIFE accordingly and then decide whether LIFE after is better..is it bliss..is there any improvement ??
GURBANI says we Humans have this Human Birth to REALISE the CREATOR while ALIVE....after death takes over..who knows what happens....so instead of undue concern with the AFTER..Gurbani is more concerned with the HERE and NOW. Sikhi/Gurmatt is for INSTANT REWARDS..( not promised ones later..in return for good deeds, self immolations, suicide bombings, etc etc)....HERE and NOW....a tiny bit of UNDERSTANDING Gurbani and APPLICATION in Life result is instant change in LIFE...little bits of understanding and chnages results in bigger and continious CHANGES..THAT is the WAY of GURMATT.:singhsippingcoffee:
secondly the GURBANI is for LIVING....so LIVE the WAY Gurbani says..change LIFE accordingly and then decide whether LIFE after is better..is it bliss..is there any improvement ??
GURBANI says we Humans have this Human Birth to REALISE the CREATOR while ALIVE....after death takes over..who knows what happens....so instead of undue concern with the AFTER..Gurbani is more concerned with the HERE and NOW. Sikhi/Gurmatt is for INSTANT REWARDS..( not promised ones later..in return for good deeds, self immolations, suicide bombings, etc etc)....HERE and NOW....a tiny bit of UNDERSTANDING Gurbani and APPLICATION in Life result is instant change in LIFE...little bits of understanding and chnages results in bigger and continious CHANGES..THAT is the WAY of GURMATT.:singhsippingcoffee:
- Jan 31, 2011
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Sikhboy11ji,
Hell is here on earth, as is heaven, it is not represented in your physical surroundings, nor your financial state, nor your health, it is all in your head and in your heart, with the right attitude, even being sawn in half can be heaven, provided you are gazing at an object of adoration, provided you know what is important, and what is maya, and what is not
Somedays, when our connection to the supreme is weak, we are in hell, we feel fear, anger, loathing, sadness, somedays, we feel so in tune with the supreme, we behave calmly, full of love, no fear, no loathing, no lust, just balanced and content and in wonder, that is heaven
Hell is here on earth, as is heaven, it is not represented in your physical surroundings, nor your financial state, nor your health, it is all in your head and in your heart, with the right attitude, even being sawn in half can be heaven, provided you are gazing at an object of adoration, provided you know what is important, and what is maya, and what is not
Somedays, when our connection to the supreme is weak, we are in hell, we feel fear, anger, loathing, sadness, somedays, we feel so in tune with the supreme, we behave calmly, full of love, no fear, no loathing, no lust, just balanced and content and in wonder, that is heaven
Thats because Harry is the "Moon"..he simply reflects the Gyaan the SUN sends out.....MOST of US dont bother...while Harry does !!
"...Heaven is not a place and cannot be found on a map; rather it is where God's will is done..."
- Pope Benedict XVI
cheerleader
"...Our Father who art in Heaven [said Jesus] but what is this – Heaven? And where is Heaven? “… who art in Heaven" – that means: within the saints and within the just. Yes, the heavens are the highest bodies in the universe, but they are still bodies, which cannot exist except in a given location. Yet if we believe that God is located in the heavens, meaning in the highest parts of the world, then the birds would be more fortunate than we, since they would live closer to God. Yet it is not written: ‘The Lord is close to those who dwell on the heights or on the mountains’, but rather: ‘the Lord is close to the brokenhearted’, an expression which refers to humility. Just as the sinner is called ‘Earth’, so by contrast the just man can be called ‘Heaven’..."
- Saint Augustine of Hippo (354 – 430 AD), Church Father
"...If your religious leaders say, 'See, the Kingdom of the Father is in the heavens,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'it is under the earth,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will find the Kingdom, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty..."
- Jesus Christ
"...His disciples said to him [Jesus], "When will the Kingdom of Heaven come?" He replied "It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it..."
- Jesus Christ
"...Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven...."
- Jesus Christ (Sermon on the Mount)
- Pope Benedict XVI
cheerleader
"...Our Father who art in Heaven [said Jesus] but what is this – Heaven? And where is Heaven? “… who art in Heaven" – that means: within the saints and within the just. Yes, the heavens are the highest bodies in the universe, but they are still bodies, which cannot exist except in a given location. Yet if we believe that God is located in the heavens, meaning in the highest parts of the world, then the birds would be more fortunate than we, since they would live closer to God. Yet it is not written: ‘The Lord is close to those who dwell on the heights or on the mountains’, but rather: ‘the Lord is close to the brokenhearted’, an expression which refers to humility. Just as the sinner is called ‘Earth’, so by contrast the just man can be called ‘Heaven’..."
- Saint Augustine of Hippo (354 – 430 AD), Church Father
"...If your religious leaders say, 'See, the Kingdom of the Father is in the heavens,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'it is under the earth,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will find the Kingdom, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty..."
- Jesus Christ
"...His disciples said to him [Jesus], "When will the Kingdom of Heaven come?" He replied "It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it..."
- Jesus Christ
"...Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven...."
- Jesus Christ (Sermon on the Mount)
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- Aug 28, 2010
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From Gurbanee it is very clear that there is no HELL for GURMUKH..it is all HEAVEN and HEAVEN only.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Prakash.S.Bagga
"...Heaven is not a place and cannot be found on a map; rather it is where God's will is done..."
- Pope Benedict XVI
I think the above says it well.
We can make heaven and hell whatever we want to make of them.
It may be benefical for some if they believe or for some it's better if they don't.
Whatever brings out the good in us.
There is no heaven/hell opposites given by the Gurus in sikhism.
It's sometimes easier to think of a heaven as being where one is liberated and has attained mukhti.
So, where is the one, if they have not obtained salvation,liberation or mukhti ?
Well, we could say here on physical earth, we could call it hell if we want or just the opposite of heaven.
If God is in all and pervades and permeates everywhere. Then he is not just in a so called heaven. If we become one with the creator you could call it bliss or heaven. If you do not become one and complete, then your here on earth.
Everyone of us would have our own perception of heaven/hell if we feel it necessary.
If it helps then feel free to accept.
As children, whatever we are told in this sense sometimes sticks and stays- it's nice, nothing wrong.
My kids believe in a heaven. They also believe in Santa and that he comes from God in heaven down to the North pole to get all the toys and then gives them to the good children.
A simple fairytale story of Santa gets the kids to behave, know about a true creator, know right/wrong and generally do good!! SIMPLE!!!!
Waheguru
Lucky Singh
- Pope Benedict XVI
I think the above says it well.
We can make heaven and hell whatever we want to make of them.
It may be benefical for some if they believe or for some it's better if they don't.
Whatever brings out the good in us.
There is no heaven/hell opposites given by the Gurus in sikhism.
It's sometimes easier to think of a heaven as being where one is liberated and has attained mukhti.
So, where is the one, if they have not obtained salvation,liberation or mukhti ?
Well, we could say here on physical earth, we could call it hell if we want or just the opposite of heaven.
If God is in all and pervades and permeates everywhere. Then he is not just in a so called heaven. If we become one with the creator you could call it bliss or heaven. If you do not become one and complete, then your here on earth.
Everyone of us would have our own perception of heaven/hell if we feel it necessary.
If it helps then feel free to accept.
As children, whatever we are told in this sense sometimes sticks and stays- it's nice, nothing wrong.
My kids believe in a heaven. They also believe in Santa and that he comes from God in heaven down to the North pole to get all the toys and then gives them to the good children.
A simple fairytale story of Santa gets the kids to behave, know about a true creator, know right/wrong and generally do good!! SIMPLE!!!!
Waheguru
Lucky Singh
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I fully agree to above as stated.But what should be the meaning of the word "DARGAH" in Gurbanee.This word is refered in several quotes.?
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Dec 21, 2010
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Veer Prakash.S.Bagga ji unless one recognizes the use of Symbology and metaphors in SGGS, your line of thought will always lead to mis-direction. Literal hallucinations are created which SGGS does not espouse nor Guru ji preached.
Sat Sri Akal.
- Aug 28, 2010
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WE can not consider any reference as Metaphor.One should clearly understand what metaphor is ? Even Metaphors have been used to convey specific messages which no one can deny.
Can you tell how the word "DARGAH" in Gurbanee is a Metaphor?
I think this is absolutely wrong approach to take the shelter of Symbolisation or Metaphorisation if the real message is not being in line we want to project.
This way we are not doing any good to the presentation of Sikh philosophy.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Taranjeet singh
SPNer
Veer Ambarsaria ji,
Most respectfully it is stated that:
Question asked is very relevant. Dargah has appeared in Bani at many places and the meaning of this is explained in the Katha the link of which was posted a few days back by me.
It is suggested that one should Listen to the Katha as that is acclaimed that First Katha was done by Guru Gobind Singh ji, Tenth Patshahi, and it took almost 9 months and 9 days . Kindly listen to opening 100 files and you will get lot of explanations as to where to use metaphors and how to employ these in interpretation.
Let us not impose our views that may not be essentially in consonance with sikhi and also Guru Granth Sahib. It is also stated that Guru Nanak Dev ji had pronounced Mool Mantra in presence of Akaal himself [in which ever form or format Guru Nanak dev ji realized or met Him].
It proves that there is some Dragah or some place or state of mind or something that is beyond my comprehension and hence beyond description. But I do believe in 'Dargah'.
Let us not doubt these things in a manner that amounts to complete rejection. There should be some scope for alignment of explanations that have been going on for centuries and sikhs believe in these. It is also not very important whether I believe in or not. More important is what the fact is.
It is only a humble request only and should kindly be appreciated in the same manner.
Warm Regards!
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TARANJEET SINGH Ji,
Thanks for your nice explanation .That is what I mentioned for.
I think Gurbanee itself should be the only reference for understanding its meanings.
If we look for the meanings of Gurbanee from other sources there is every possibility of going astray.
In person I do not give any importance to Kathas as there is hardly ant autheticity of what is being told therein.There are always elements of confusions
I believe we should try to understand the true and real meanings of Gurbanee words and then the conents of any Katha should be verified on the basis of Gurbanee.
I have full respect for your views that goes without saying.
Prakash.S.Bagga
Thanks for your nice explanation .That is what I mentioned for.
I think Gurbanee itself should be the only reference for understanding its meanings.
If we look for the meanings of Gurbanee from other sources there is every possibility of going astray.
In person I do not give any importance to Kathas as there is hardly ant autheticity of what is being told therein.There are always elements of confusions
I believe we should try to understand the true and real meanings of Gurbanee words and then the conents of any Katha should be verified on the basis of Gurbanee.
I have full respect for your views that goes without saying.
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Dec 21, 2010
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Here is a sabad that refers to <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w
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Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:
ਪਉੜੀ।
xxx
xxx
ਵਡਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ਸਚਾ ਤੁਧੁ ਤਖਤੁ ॥
वडा तेरा दरबारु सचा तुधु तखतु ॥
vadā ṯerā ḏarbār sacẖā ṯuḏẖ ṯakẖaṯ.
The Darbaar of Your Court is glorious and great. Your holy throne is True.
ਵਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਹੈ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਰਗਾਹ, ਹੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ! ਅਤੇ ਸੱਚਾ ਹੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਰਾਜ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਣ।
ਸਚਾ = ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ।
ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੇਰਾ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਵੱਡਾ ਹੈ, ਤੇਰਾ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ।
ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਚਉਰੁ ਛਤੁ ॥
सिरि साहा पातिसाहु निहचलु चउरु छतु ॥
Sir sāhā pāṯisāhu nihcẖal cẖa▫ur cẖẖaṯ.
You are the Emperor over the heads of kings. Your canopy and chauree (fly-brush) are permanent and unchanging.
ਤੂੰ ਰਾਜਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਸੀਸ ਉਤੇ ਮਹਾਰਾਜਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇਂ ਸਦੀਵੀ ਸਥਿਰ ਹੈ ਤੇਰਾ ਤਖਤ ਤਾਜ।
ਸਿਰਿ = ਸਿਰ ਉਤੇ। ਛਤੁ = ਛਤਰ।
ਤੇਰਾ ਚਵਰ ਤੇ ਛਤਰ ਅਟੱਲ ਹੈ, ਤੂੰ (ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ) ਸ਼ਾਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਤੇ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹ ਹੈਂ।
ਜੋ ਭਾਵੈ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸੋਈ ਸਚੁ ਨਿਆਉ ॥
जो भावै पारब्रहम सोई सचु निआउ ॥
Jo bẖāvai pārbarahm so▫ī sacẖ ni▫ā▫o.
That alone is true justice, which is pleasing to the Will of the Supreme Lord God.
ਜਿਹੜਾ ਕੁੱਛ ਸ਼੍ਰੋਮਣੀ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗਾ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕੇਵਲ ਉਹ ਹੀ ਸੱਚਾ ਇਨਸਾਫ ਹੈ।
ਨਿਆਉ = ਇਨਸਾਫ਼।
ਉਹੀ ਇਨਸਾਫ਼ ਅਟੱਲ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗਾ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਜੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਨਿਥਾਵੇ ਮਿਲੈ ਥਾਉ ॥
जे भावै पारब्रहम निथावे मिलै थाउ ॥
Je bẖāvai pārbarahm nithāve milai thā▫o.
Even the homeless receive a home, when it is pleasing to the Will of the Supreme Lord God.
ਜੇਕਰ ਪਰਮ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਐਸੀ ਰਜ਼ਾ ਹੋਵੇ, ਤਾਂ ਬੇ-ਟਿਕਾਣੇ ਪੁਰਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
xxx
ਜੇ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਚੰਗਾ ਲੱਗੇ ਤਾਂ ਨਿਆਸਰਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਆਸਰਾ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ।
ਜੋ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ਸਾਈ ਭਲੀ ਗਲ ॥
जो कीन्ही करतारि साई भली गल ॥
Jo kīnĥī karṯār sā▫ī bẖalī gal.
Whatever the Creator Lord does, is a good thing.
ਜਿਹੜਾ ਕੁੱਛ ਭੀ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕੇਵਲ ਉਹ ਹੀ ਚੰਗੀ ਬਾਤ ਹੈ।
ਕਰਤਾਰਿ = ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ। ਸਾਈ = ਓਹੀ।
(ਜੀਵਾਂ ਵਾਸਤੇ) ਉਹੀ ਗੱਲ ਚੰਗੀ ਹੈ ਜੋ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨੇ (ਆਪ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਵਾਸਤੇ) ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ।
ਸਹੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਫੁਰਮਾਨੁ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਫੇਰੀਐ ॥
सही तेरा फुरमानु किनै न फेरीऐ ॥
Sahī ṯerā furmān kinai na ferī▫ai.
True is Your Command; no one can challenge it.
ਸੱਚਾ ਹੈ ਤੈਡਾਂ ਹੁਕਮ, ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਮੋੜ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ।
xxx
ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! ਤੇਰਾ ਹੁਕਮ (ਸਦਾ) ਠੀਕ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, ਕਿਸੇ ਜੀਵ ਨੇ (ਕਦੇ) ਉਹ ਮੋੜਿਆ ਨਹੀਂ।
ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਤੇਰੀਐ ॥੧੬॥
कारण करण करीम कुदरति तेरीऐ ॥१६॥
Kāraṇ karaṇ karīm kuḏraṯ ṯerī▫ai. ||16||
O Merciful Lord, Cause of causes, Your creative power is all-powerful. ||16||
ਹੇ ਹੇਤੂਆਂ ਦੇ ਹੇਤੂ! ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨ ਮਾਲਕ ਸਾਰੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਪਾਰ ਸ਼ਕਤੀ ਦੇ ਅਧੀਨ ਹਨ।
ਕਰੀਮ = ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ। ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ = ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦਾ ਕਰਤਾ ॥੧੬॥
ਹੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦੇ ਰਚਨਹਾਰ! ਹੇ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਉਤੇ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਸ਼ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ! (ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ) ਤੇਰੀ ਹੀ (ਰਚੀ ਹੋਈ) ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥
Isn't in the above Dargah stated as unison, nearness and closeness with the creator as through understanding? So for me reference is that when one is in such closeness one reaches a stage of being "Judge and Jury". So it is a state of mind related to completenss of understanding of the creator.
Just sharing for discourse.
Any comments or thoughts.
Sat Sri Akal.
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I think for you the words DARBAR and DARGAH are SYNONYM.I think you may be wong.
You can see for yourself how the meanings of the two words are different
In the first Sabad....DARBAR is given as DARBAR of the court of LORD
whereas in second Sabad the meaning of DARGAH is given as Court of the LORD.
This is for you to analyse and see what should be correct.
Prakash.s.Bagga
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TARANJEET SINGH ji,
I think that the words DARBAR and DARGAH are not SYNONYM.
We can have DARBAR in this life but the relation of DARGAH is always with some state after life.
We call HARi MANDIR SAhib ji as DARBAR SAHIB .I think this hint should be enough to understand the difference between DARBAR and DARGAH.
Prakash.S.Bagga
I think that the words DARBAR and DARGAH are not SYNONYM.
We can have DARBAR in this life but the relation of DARGAH is always with some state after life.
We call HARi MANDIR SAhib ji as DARBAR SAHIB .I think this hint should be enough to understand the difference between DARBAR and DARGAH.
Prakash.S.Bagga
- Dec 21, 2010
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Veer Prakash.S.Bagga ji who is discussing Darbar? I know it is in the sabad but Taranjeet Singh ji mentioned "Dargah". I think you should review your comments as this and one other above are just tangential. No one is comparing "Darbar" and "Dargah" excpet you have like always introduced another non-Sikhi concept of "after life". I quote,
Once we are lit on the funeral pyre over the next short period of time (relatively speaking), there woudln't be nothing but a bit of ash and bones and of course positive/negative memories left with others. mundahug
What kind of manners are these? May be you just like to make people upset and angry.
I do suggest also veer with love that you should see a Doctor or check for any Vitamins supplements. This is simply a caring suggestion not to say you need either. I just feel for you at times.mundahug
Sat Sri Akal.
- Aug 28, 2010
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I notice you are unable to look beyond Body form.So you are not getting to the right point.With you with such an understanding Never possible.
I have got my full check up from my DOCTOR GuRu.every report is fine.
Dont worry.
Take care of yourself.
Prakash.s.Bagga
- Aug 28, 2010
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AMBARSARIA Ji,
If you dont believe LIFE after DEATH this is your problem.
I have strong belief in Continuity of life till ultimately within the feet of ULTIMATE LORD.
Prakash.s.Bagga
If you dont believe LIFE after DEATH this is your problem.
I have strong belief in Continuity of life till ultimately within the feet of ULTIMATE LORD.
Prakash.s.Bagga
- Dec 21, 2010
- 3,384
- 5,690
Prakash.S.Bagga ji post a complete sabad from SGGS supporting what you say.
If you believe in it aside from SGGS that is not a point of discussion of this thread.
Sat Sri Akal.
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