Leisure Dinosaur And Dharma

Status
Not open for further replies.

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh
Writer
SPNer
Watching the Dinosaurs yesterday on the BBC reminded me that they roamed this earth for 165 Million Years but all that time earth seemed to have no Dharma ? Strange how God allowed them a free reign on the earth for such a long time, for they did not pray or build any temples or serve others. Was it their fault that their brains were too small? God did not let man wait even a few thousand years before he sent help. Even animals of today seem to follow the Natural Law but man seems to be the only species that needs to be reminded in principle of living a true life or be instructed in the right way by the Guru .The point is related to time and the purpose of that supposed chaos and lack of religion on this earth and to draw attention to how 'old' or 'new' God is.
 
Last edited:

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

Sinner veer some comments,

Sinner says .....man seems to be the only species that needs to be redeemed of his sins or be instructed in the right way .
Needs to be redeemed of his sins

  • Our Guru ji or Sikhism does not believe in this
    • Phew peacesign
instructed in the right way

  • Again our Guru ji did not design a right way to instruct nor Sikhism believes in right way to instruct
  • Sikhism does encourage individual understanding for all that is around and I am pretty sure all animals and dinosaurs did and do that too
Sat Sri Akal.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

we need to look at the SIKH GURUS (SGGS) without wearing the different coloured lenses of other religions...original sin..secondary sin..the redeemer..son of god and son of man..prophets prophecies etc etc miracles, seas parting and rains of frogs, etc etc have to be kept OUT./ASIDE.
GURU NANAK is a Compeletly NEW WAY..away from the well beaten 'paths"....if we wear GREEN coloured lenses..we see his a "sufi muslim" ( as the Ahmidiyahs do)...if we wear Jesus Christ branded eyewear..we see original sin, redeeming necessary etc etc..and try to find all that when GURU NANAK JI didnt even say a single word about that...Guru nanak Ji must eb seen with our own ORIGINAL pair of untainted EYES...to see Him as he truly is...the GURU NANAK...:singhsippingcoffee:
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

Watching the Dinosaurs yesterday on the BBC reminded me that they roamed this earth for 165 Million Years but all that time earth seemed to have no Dharma ? Strange how God allowed them a free reign on the earth for such a long time, for they did not pray or build any temples or serve others. Was it their fault that their brains were too small? God did not let man wait even a few thousand years before he sent help. Even animals of today seem to follow the Natural Law but man seems to be the only species that needs to be redeemed of his sins or be instructed in the right way .

It is quite apparent from many of Sinner ji's posts that he is often confused between the Abrahamical and other religions; and Sikhi.He also seems to be confused between Ik Ong Kaar and the Abrahamical God.

I would urge him to read about these religions which can be found in many threads in this very forum so that he can be the Truthseeker he wants to be.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh
Writer
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

Thank you all, I realise that my words sometimes use phrases which I picked up from School but don't focus on one line read ,it was time on my mind,my learned Sikhs does 'Sikhi' believe in time, or in a time to send the Guru or manifest himself and is a Natural Religion possible.Please be kind I'm a fragile soul.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

Thanks Sinner ji for clearly describing your objective of finding a Natural Religion, if one is possible. Just to request that Sikhism's tenets and the shabads of the Guru Sahibs not be a springboard for doing so. This can be misunderstood as undermining Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Some others might want to argue that Sikhism is a natural religion and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is its scripture. If that is the case, then the shabads must be understood in the context of all of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and tuks must be understood in the contest of a shabad, and the interpretation must be given. Then the rest can decide if your understanding is consistent with Gurmat....wisdom of the Guru. Thanks.


See that is why I have moved several threads to leisure or business and lifestyle. The discussions are worthy and we need to have them. However, slipping in and out of many of the threads are reflections that take liberties with a reasonable understanding of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the tenets of Sikhi. This causes bitterness when it continues. They cannot be part of the Sikh Sikhism Sikhi forum for reasons I have given.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh
Writer
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

Spnadmin Ji, I understand your fear,but I'm at home here, no agenda to undermine Sikhi, I made the question and title as entertaining as possible, because I was in the leisure section,just being the entertainment and as I'm late finding the site I try to extend the boundaries of discourse, as in seven years most things will have been covered in the Sikhi section.Perhaps I should be in the mad musketeer section?
Appreciate the nudge
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Re: Dinosaur Dharma

I think with a little nudge now and then you will find the boundaries. Over the years the forum has had to tighten up on the boundaries for Sikh Sikhi Sikhism. Early in our life cycle things were pretty loose and easy. Over time this turned out to be a liability. So you will find in the past year or so many threads have been moved to other sections. In some cases we have also begun new subforums to meet a need. Thank you.
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh
Writer
SPNer
Just to reply to those posts although to qualify we are not in the Sikhi section just a personal discussion,Veer Ji, Tejwant Singh JI The consesus view being that Ik Onkaar can't be defined, then how can you say with any certaintity that he is not like something ,whether it be Abrahmanical or otherwise.

Head of the Musketeers,Where does Sikhi specifically say sins can't be redeemed or deny the Son of Man.It is what we believe that Sikhi believes that is the problem.Sikhi cannot exist without you who interprets ,so Sikhi does not actually believe, it is we that believe it does. Take the example that most baptised Sikhs are vegetarian, yet 'Sikhi does not beleive in that' it but millions perhaps believe that Sikhi believes in that .

Gyani Ji ,It is newer by comparison but Guru Ji made no reference to 'going away from the paths/faiths of the day,what he said was do what you are doing in the rightway.
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
Veera answers to the following best I can,

Head of the Musketeers,Where does Sikhi specifically say sins can't be redeemed or deny the Son of Man.
Basic issue is if one can not get to the essence one will always be lost in literal. You seem to be so trapped and only you can unshackle or continue as is.

It is what we believe that Sikhi believes that is the problem.Sikhi cannot exist without you who interprets ,so Sikhi does not actually believe, it is we that believe it does.
To avoid any interpretation you are requesting to be talking to the source. In order to achieve this you needed to be born in Guru ji's times so that like all teachers they could have slapped you silly (metaphorically) to make you understand.

In the absence of that the best place to get to the meaning is one's own head but unencumbered. If you read Gurbani looking for answers (Where does it say that style!) , you are reading it the wrong way. You need to read Gurbani to understand so that you may develop capabilities for answers and not just questions.

Take the example that most baptised Sikhs are vegetarian, yet 'Sikhi does not beleive in that' it but millions perhaps believe that Sikhi believes in that.
Sikhi does not say people cannot be vegetarian or encourage others to be vegetarians. Sikhi does not say people cannot be non-vegetarian and encourage others to be non-vegetarian.

It is not even a debate other than in the mind of those who want others to conform to their ways and understanding. Sikhi does not want you to be a follower but an individual leading life through understanding. Obviously it is easy to follow and many do. Many a Sant/Babey (Radhaswamis, etc.) take full advantage of such flocks.
Sat Sri Akal.
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Sinner ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write.

Veer Ji, Tejwant Singh JI The consesus view being that Ik Onkaar can't be defined, then how can you say with any certaintity that he is not like something ,whether it be Abrahmanical or otherwise.

If you read the threads requested by me several times in this forum, you would have your answers by now.

Now, you have to walk the walk on your own after having talked the talked for quite sometime. Once you have studied them, then all questions can be answered and discussed.

Enjoy your journey.

Tejwant Singh
 

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh
Writer
SPNer
Veer Ji's,Personally again ,The source today is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ,My Dad gave me it in 4 part form, 19 years ago,I'm a mad musketeer but thats got to be better than going to threads for knowledge, how can I rely on another persons interpretation to be right? I must give it my honest understanding and then it is my honest belief ,if in doubt one should rely on another but our Scripture is straightforward, as Gyani Ji said it's for the man on the street ,so why rely on a scholar if I can read Gurmukhi with a little help, , Even the Mool Mantra has a few interpretations and they are all right just expressed differently .
Again personal view only not meant to convert anyone .
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Veer Ji's,Personally again ,The source today is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ,My Dad gave me it in 4 part form, 19 years ago,I'm a mad musketeer but thats got to be better than going to threads for knowledge, how can I rely on another persons interpretation to be right? I must give it my honest understanding and then it is my honest belief ,if in doubt one should rely on another but our Scripture is straightforward, as Gyani Ji said it's for the man on the street ,so why rely on a scholar if I can read Gurmukhi with a little help, , Even the Mool Mantra has a few interpretations and they are all right just expressed differently .
Again personal view only not meant to convert anyone .

Sinner ji,

Guru fateh.

Then you are all set. You have the SGGS in 4 volumes and if you do not have the OT, the NT and the Koran, which I am sure you can arrange if you have not studied them already.

Now, you can begin to answer your own questions and enlighten us with what you have learnt.

At the same time, you are also participating in creating this thread which others may read in the future and learn from it, the exercise you refuse to do yourself.:redturban:

As I said before, enjoy your journey.

Tejwant Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

Mentor
Writer
SPNer
Originally Posted by Sinner
Veer Ji's,Personally again ,The source today is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji ,My Dad gave me it in 4 part form, 19 years ago,I'm a mad musketeer but thats got to be better than going to threads for knowledge, how can I rely on another persons interpretation to be right? I must give it my honest understanding and then it is my honest belief ,if in doubt one should rely on another but our Scripture is straightforward, as Gyani Ji said it's for the man on the street ,so why rely on a scholar if I can read Gurmukhi with a little help, , Even the Mool Mantra has a few interpretations and they are all right just expressed differently .
Again personal view only not meant to convert anyone .
Thanks for your input Ji ,without veteran members opinions I would have no discourse ,if a child can't trouble his elders who can he trouble?

Sinner ji,

Guru Fateh.

I do not want to get into a circular argument with you, but if you check both your posts above, you will notice your self contradictions. When asked to read the other threads, you claimed there was no need for it because, Gurbani is simple to comprehend,"how can I rely on another persons interpretation to be right"? and on the other side, you are seeking help "without veteran members opinions I would have no discourse".

I have no idea if Dharma, which means responsibility, has aged like the Dinosaurs.

Tejwant Singh
 
Watching the Dinosaurs yesterday on the BBC reminded me that they roamed this earth for 165 Million Years but all that time earth seemed to have no Dharma ? Strange how God allowed them a free reign on the earth for such a long time, for they did not pray or build any temples or serve others. Was it their fault that their brains were too small? God did not let man wait even a few thousand years before he sent help. Even animals of today seem to follow the Natural Law but man seems to be the only species that needs to be reminded in principle of living a true life or be instructed in the right way by the Guru .The point is related to time and the purpose of that supposed chaos and lack of religion on this earth and to draw attention to how 'old' or 'new' God is.
A Guru is someone who works with you to bring to a new level of understanding and practice. Morality - a good life - like art, music, science, is a skill that one can master through meeting a Guru. Morality is a skill and like all skills, it is present to some extent like art, etc but is improved further with added guidance from a Guru.

A Guru is someone who has mastered the skill himself. A martial arts Guru can only teach you martial arts if he is a master at it. A Guru who is the master of morality can thus teach you how to lead a good life.

Dinosaurs would also have to learn certain skills. T. rex would need to learn to hunt. Much of hunting behaviour is already there in creature. However, t. rex are not so social. So they are their own Gurus, they learn through trial and error, and experience. If they don't learn they starve to death.

Similarly, if you want to learn to play tabla, you can also learn it through trial and error. I know many artists who are self-taught. It is possible since rhythm, pattern and beat are already present in us but you will get more out of seeing a Guru who has mastered tabla himself. (In tabla circles, a Guru is called an Ustaad) With his experience, he can guide you to mastery faster than you can guide yourself.

A Guru cannot teach you if you do not listen to what he says and do as he instructs. If you block him off with your own ignorance that will not work either. Understanding from a Guru only comes when you surrender yourself to him, more specifically, the source of wisdom only he and other Gurus have access to (that should sound Abrahamic ;)).

As for rituals of praying and other ceremonies and rituals, they are a very complex human way of doing things. We have complex rituals around everything. A bird, the descendents of dinosaurs, does a simple ritual mating dance, to attract a mate. We go through pretty complex dances and finally have a finale to end it off, known as Anand Karaj. This ritual of getting married on its own is so complex. Birds have simple social behaviours, whereas, we have very complex ones, that's all. And we have always had rituals, we are just a ritualistic today as we were when we lived in caves.

Look at dinosaurs and dharma on a continuum where on one end there is simplicity and on the other end there is complexity. It will make more sense.
 

Ishna

Writer
SPNer
Someone else's opinion may help inform someone else's personal interpretation.

The forum should not exist if we are not supposed to have discourse on areas of confusion.

It is not quite fair to say "read SGGS yourself and figure it out" all the time - then we wouldn't even need sangat or Gurbani classes or Gurbani.org or any articles on Naam or any other written material at all.

It is helpful for people who are not quite sure to get help from those who have more experience and hopefully more understanding (ie. veterans).
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
Writer
SPNer
"Time-out Fellow Souls"

Let us not keep repeating or telling others what to do. We are adults and we do have a choice to try to help some one but we have no choice to hammer someone. One does not have to reply to every post from everyone.

Bhagat Singh ji and Ishna ji have stated very nicely what is even more expected of 40+ people in this thread. Let us help but not force. As we all know, "You can take a horse to water but can't make him drink". Is that a momentary attitude to ignore, it perhaps is since you don't want to stop taking the horse to water.

So let us be genuinely sincere in our convictions and be mild in our mannerism (I am perhaps worse than many and I try to keep working on it) so that we all gain.

So when we joust, aggressively at times we see sweat. But many a times this sweat shows up as incredible pearls of wisdom. Moments are marvellous when such happens. Almost everyone on this thread has shown these pearls across many threads. So let us continue to recognize and generate a learning experience for all.

There are no preachers on this forums, if there were the threads will be dying pretty fast with little new being generated. The spn garden has wonderful flowers which bloom at different times and in different contexts. I had my run-ins too but without exception (may be one) I have always learnt even from some of the fiercest counter arguments.

Just for some humble consideration.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top