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Bhagats Did The Mandir ROTATE For Bhagat Namdev Ji?

Aug 29, 2010
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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

DID THE MANDIR ROTATE FOR BHAGAT NAMDEV Ji,

All the incidences reffered in SGGS have relevance in exemplifying the role of CREATOR in controlling certain extreme circumstances.For a common man these incidences appear to be miracles.We would find that these incidences are examples set to tell that oppressions cant do much if one is in UNISON WITH THE CREATOR.These are exceptional incidences reffered in SGGS .We do not find any such incidence related to the period of GURU NANAK DEV Ji or Other GURUS.We must therefore respect the essence of these incidences included in SGGS.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

DID THE MANDIR ROTATE FOR BHAGAT NAMDEV Ji,

All the incidences reffered in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji have relevance in exemplifying the role of CREATOR in controlling certain extreme circumstances.For a common man these incidences appear to be miracles.We would find that these incidences are examples set to tell that oppressions cant do much if one is in UNISON WITH THE CREATOR.These are exceptional incidences reffered in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji .We do not find any such incidence related to the period of GURU NANAK DEV Ji or Other GURUS.We must therefore respect the essence of these incidences included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Prakash.S.Bagga
Prakash.S.Bagga ji I humbly submit the following as far as my understanding,


  • Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not written as a story book with incidences
  • Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is not written as Sakhiyan with focus on incidences
That line of thought belongs in Hindu scriptures, the Bible or the Koran and other similars.

Regards.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

AMBARSARIA Ji,
I think you have misunderstood my context or I have not been able to convey my feelings about these incidences
The whole Baani of SGGS is DHUR Ki BAANI that goes without saying.But if we go thru the whole of SGGS we find that nearlytwo hundred mythological references are there belonging to Hindu mythology.These references do not change the character of BAANI
but there seems to be some definite purpose of mentioning.Probably we may be lacking in our understanding about the purpose of these references.

There is a Dictionary of Mythological references in SGGS by an emminent Author Surinder Singh Kohli.I may recommend you to go thru this book to add to better undertsanding.

I have just said that we should be more concentrating on Basic Sikh Philosophy as
given in SGGS .

With best wishes
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

Prakash.S.Bagga ji I realize that, as the Gurus and others contributions addressed the 'mat' 'bhet' prevalent during the times. For me these were to address the underlying issues and the core of the dogmas, practices and other inequities.

The culture of no questions to be asked both in Hinduism and Islam at the time was destroyed through our Gurus teachings and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I think we are more alike than different but words can trigger different thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

Gurbani is written in such a beautiful way...Firts the writer addresses the Usual the mundane, the already accepted, the widely popular..it may be myth, it may be ritual, it may be whatever was done as religious duty etc etc... THEN GURU JI GIVES HIS take on the matter...what we should concentrate ON and ADOPT AS OUR OWN WAY.
This ESSENCE of the Gurus Thought is usually captured in the RAHAO TUKS or the ending parts of shabds.
What the un-initiated or the unconcerned do is just take the SUPERFICIAL example that Guru Ji is just writing for the sake of COMPARISON..be it amythological reference , Blindly follwoed Ritual, Disgusting religious practises, etc etc and STOP THERE and claim GURBANI says this and That and thats it. Period. They NEVER even attempt to go FURTHER and read GURU Jis CONCLUSION on the Matter.

1. Perfect example..of IF you cnat beat them JOIN THEM. LOHREE is NOT a Sikh Festival. It has basolutley NO GURMAT base. Nothing to do with Gurbani. Its celebrated for birth of a SON..so its Male gender centric....and NOW SIKHS are being widely encouraged to have FEMALE LOHREE..and the reasons being advamced..female foetus murders, bhuryan hattiah..RESPECT to females etc etc...ALL of which means we are RUNNING with our TAILS between our legs becasue we failed to STOP a WRONG Practise and now look for excuses. ( BTW the Christians had to do this..what ?? They FAILED to STOP the PAGANS from celebrating the SOLAR DAY on DEC 25 even though many of the Pagans had become "Christians"...they continued celebrating the Pagan God SUN on Dec 25..so the Christians cleverly sought to DIVERT attention from the Pagan SUN God to their JESUS by proclaiming that Jesus was BORN on Dec 25 when in fact NO SUCH THING. Simialrly nOW "HINDUS" who have become "SIKHS" cannot be stopped from celebrating Hindu festivals..so "sikhs apologists" look for EXCUSES..Diwali has one excuse..Oh its Bandi Chhorr Diwas..not really Diwali...Lohree..oOh its for FEMALES..to stop female killings...what ELSE ?? The Christians have ahd 2000 years to ROT AWAY..we managed to do that in just under 300...real "INSTANT ROTTING"

3. GOLDEN RULE OF GURBANI...ALWAYS LOOK AT THE RAHAO TUKS...Guru Ji already made a MARKER...RAHAO...PAUSE ( and THINK )....but we always BEAT THE RED LIGHT and RUSH THROUGH the PAUSE !!! Once we PAUSE as Guru Ji intended us to do..ALL the MYTHS, the Rituals, the religious habits, janam maran da gerr, joons etc etc all FALL INTO PLACE as of NO SIGNIFICANCE..only thing to do is REMEMBER HIM...thats the One and ONLY Message in Gurbani in every Shaabd...BOTTOM LINE.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

GIYANI JARNAIL SINGH Ji.
Your views are quite appreciable .For the whole situation we ouselves are responsible .If we would have spread the true message of SGGS only the situation would have been different.We have not done so and even we dont seem to be serious about this.
You will appreciate the fact that how difficult it is to stick to SGGS only.?This is because our mentallity is strongly influened by teachings other than SGGS .Change of any PSYCHO is always gradual .Since we have closed all the doors of any change to happen how do we expect any change.we can simply just feel sorry for this state of affairs.
STILL TIME IS NOT GONE.LET US STICK TO THE TEACHINGS OF SGGS SINCERELY THEN YOU SEE THE EFFECT>BUT IT IS THE DUTY of ALL OF US TO CREATE ATMOSPHERE FOR THE CHANGE TO TAKE PLACE.OTHERWISE THE SITUATION IS GOING TO STAY LIKE THIS
BUT THERE IS STILL A HOPE FROM COMING GENERATION TO WORK TOWARDS THIS>

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Bmandur

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਚੇਤੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ
Raag Gauree Chaytee, The Word Of Naam Dayv Jee:
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
. One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਦੇਵਾ ਪਾਹਨ ਤਾਰੀਅਲੇ
God makes even stones float.
ਰਾਮ ਕਹਤ ਜਨ ਕਸ ਤਰੇ ੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
So why shouldn't Your humble slave also float across, chanting Your Name, O Lord? ||1||Pause||
ਤਾਰੀਲੇ ਗਨਿਕਾ ਬਿਨੁ ਰੂਪ ਕੁਬਿਜਾ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਅਜਾਮਲੁ ਤਾਰੀਅਲੇ
You saved the prostitute, and the ugly hunch-back; You helped the hunter and Ajaamal swim across as well.
ਚਰਨ ਬਧਿਕ ਜਨ ਤੇਊ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ
The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated.
ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਿਨ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੇ ੧॥
I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who chant the Lord's Name. ||1||
ਦਾਸੀ ਸੁਤ ਜਨੁ ਬਿਦਰੁ ਸੁਦਾਮਾ ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਨ ਕਉ ਰਾਜ ਦੀਏ
You saved Bidur, the son of the slave-girl, and Sudama; You restored Ugrasain to his throne.
ਜਪ ਹੀਨ ਤਪ ਹੀਨ ਕੁਲ ਹੀਨ ਕ੍ਰਮ ਹੀਨ ਨਾਮੇ ਕੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੇਊ ਤਰੇ ੨॥੧॥

Without meditation, without penance, without a good family, without good deeds, Naam Dayv's Lord and Master saved them all. ||2||1||
Once a king in India went to Guru Nanak Dev Ji and asked: "O Guru! As you told us, God Himself supports His true worshipper, but God has so many apostles, why does He support Himself? Why does He not send His apostles to help the worshipper?"
As he said this, his own son who was playing on the bank of a river nearby slipped into the river. The king did not wait for a second and jumped in the river as well to save his child.
After saving his child he returned to the Guru. The Guru asked: "My dear friend, you were sitting here with me a minute ago and why did you jump in the river?"
The king explained that his son had slipped into the river and he went to save him.
Then the Guru asked: "Dear friend, you have so many servants, why did you jump in the river yourself? Why did not you send your servants to save him?"
The king said: "By the time I would have asked my servants, he would have drowned. I love my child very much and do not want to lose him at any cost."
Then Guru said: "My dear friend, God loves His worshippers the same way as you love your son. That is why He Himself saves His true worshipper."

Such a worshipper was Namdev. For all of his life, Namdev had worshipped God and had faith in Him for each and every moment. He did not worship anyone else but the one immortal God.
He says : "O my tongue, other occupations are false. The state of Nirvaanaa comes only through the Lord's Name. ||2|| The performance of countless millions of other devotions is not even equal to one devotion to the Name of God" (Guru Granth Sahib, page 1163).

The materialistic things would not deter Namdev from the spiritual path to meet God. Once while sewing, he wrote: "My needle is of gold and my thread is very expensive but my mind is attached to God" (Guru Granth Sahib, page 485).

He cared neither for gold nor silver; he was in love with God. Even though as a result of his true worship he had become a highly spiritual person, he was still completely devoid of pride (or ego). Namdev knew that God only care for the person who recites His name and remembers Him all the time.

Once Namdev went to Aundha Nagnath Temple (also sometimes written as "Avanda Nagnath Temple" ) situated in the state of Maharashtra in India. The Hindu priests of that temple believed in the caste system. After reaching the temple, Namdev sat and started worshipping God but the Hindu priests grabbed his arm and drove him out of the temple. The priests said that Namdev could not visit the temple because he was of a low class.

Namdev was deeply hurt so he went to the back of the temple and started worshipping God. In his prayer he said: "Joyfully, I came to Your Temple, O Lord. While Namdev was worshipping, he was driven out. I am of a low social class, O Lord; why was I born into a family of fabric dyers? I picked up my blanket and went back, to sit behind the temple" (Guru Granth Sahib, page 1164).

Namdev also said: "O Lord, please do not forget me because if You forget me then where should I go. There is nowhere else to go and no one else to believe in except You."

He further prayed: "Please do not forget me, do not forget me, please do not forget me, O Lord. The temple priests have doubts about this, and everyone is furious with me. Calling me low-caste and untouchable, they beat me and drove me out; what should I do now, O Beloved Father Lord? If You give me salvation after I am dead, no one will know that I attained salvation. These Priests, these religious scholars, call me low-born; when they say this, they tarnish Your honour as well. You are called kind and compassionate; the power of Your Arm is absolutely unrivalled" (Guru Granth Sahib, page 1292).

"As Naamdev uttered the Glorious Praises of the Lord, the temple turned around to face the Lord's humble devotee" (Guru Granth Sahib, page 1164).

"The Lord turned the temple around to face Namdev and its back to the priests" (Guru Granth Sahib, page 1292).

That temple is still rotated. This is the symbol of the true love of God towards His true worshipper.

According to the generally accepted version of the current traditions, Namdev was born in AD 1270 to Damasheti, a low-caste tailor, and his wife, Gonabai, in the village of Naras-Vamani, in Satara district of Maharashtra. Janabai, the family's maidservant and a bhakta and poetess in her own right, records the tradition that Namdev was born to Gonabai as a result of her worship of Vitthala in Pandharpur. Namdev was married before he was eleven years of age to Rajabal, daughter of Govinda sheti Sadavarte. He had four sons and one daughter, Under the influence of saint Jnanadeva, Namdev was converted to the path of bhakti. Vitthala of Pandharpur was now the object of his devotion and he spent much of his time in worship and kirtan, chanting mostly verses of his own composition.
In the company of Jnanadeva and other saints, he roamed about the country and later came to the Punjab where he is said to have lived for more than twenty years at Ghuman, in Gurdaspur district, where a temple in the form of samadh still preserves his memory. This temple was constructed by Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia and the tank by its side was got repaired by Rani Sada Kaur , mother-in-law of Maharaja Ranjit Singh . In his early fifties, Namdev settled down at Pandharpur where he gathered around himself a group of devotees. His abhangas or devotional lyrics became very popular, and people thronged to listen to his kirtan. Namdev's songs have been collected in Namdevachi Gatha which also includes the long autobiographical poem Tirathavah. His Hindi verse and his extended visit to the Punjab carried his fame far beyond the borders of Maharashtra. Sixty-one of his hymns in fact came to be included in Sikh Scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib. These hymns or sabdas share the common characteristic of lauding the One Supreme God distinct from his earlier verse which carries traces of idolatry and saguna bhakti. In the course of his spiritual quest, Namdev had, from being a worshipper of the Divine in the concrete form, become a devotee of the attributeless

 
Aug 29, 2010
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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat NAMDEV Ji,

In this connection it is important to know that a sfficient lenth of BAANI revealed thru Bhagat Nam DEV Ji is included in SGGS.Since the whole of the Baani in SGGS is DHURKi BAANi.At the time of inclusion of any BAANI ,Our GURU ARJUN DEV Ji definetly had absolute clear CRITERIA for any BAANI being taken as DHUR Ki BAANi.
So it has no relevance to say that Bhagat NAMDEV Ji turned from IDOLATORY to
FORMLESS .Such things have happened with our GURUs also.llike GURU AMAEDAS Ji iin his initial periods had great influence of Hindu Philsophy.But later on we find a very different messages in the whole BAANi revealed thru GURU AMAR DAS Ji.
Therefore we should give more significance to the ESSENCE of Gurbaani.

Prakash.s.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

Bmandur ji thanks for your post.

I do believe that we need to have some basic references when we read Gurbani or follow our Gurus teachings. I believe one of the most fundamental ones is the following,


  • Guruji neither recognized nor showed any chamatkars (miracles)
    • It is our duty when we study Gurbani that we keep this in mind
    • It is our duty when we quote from Gurbani and transliterations to keep it in mind
    • If the most one gets out of a shabad is that a Mandir rotated (a literal) and does not see the spiritual core message
      • One is no better than an andh vishvasi (blind faith in literals or stories) and it is pretty hard to get to any level of spiritual achievement, salvation or understanding
  • It is very natural and common to elevate the people you hold high regard in and show your respect
    • However, people worship is again a disdained practice that our Gurus taught against including worshiping our beloved Gurus
    • Understanding the message and teachings is better show of respect versus worshiping the Gurus as super-natural or Gods
I take great offense to the following in your post and find it rather dis-respectful of Bhagat Namdev ji,

  • "That temple is still rotated. This is the symbol of the true love of God towards His true worshipper. "
    • I wish Bhagat Namdev ji's was alive today and would have put you in your place if this is what you got out of his shloaks
Here is an excerpt from so-called reference of truth that many use as to substantiate their comments (namely wiki's)
"There is one famous story told about Sant Namdev and aundha nagnath, that when he was chanting Bhajan in front of Aundha Nagnath temple with Sant Dnyaneshwar, Visoba Khechara and few more Varkari, the temple pujari told them it is obstruting their temple prayer and asked them to go away from temple. Then all varkaris went back side of the temple and started chanting bhajan there. That time Lord Shiva turned the whole temple to listen bhajan that's why Nandi is located on back side of temple."

PS: The above implies that Lord Shiva was resident in the temple (another fallacy against Sikhism teachings of encasing God in Mandir's and murtis), and with his super-natural powers could not tune to a Bhajan in the back of the Mandir and had to get the front door aligned! Would the Pujaris not have been perturbed in this new position too. I assumed they were inside and moved with the mandir. What did they do? Not protest anymore. Wouldn't it have been easier on Lord Shiva to just put the Pujaris into temporary sleep and hear Bhagat Namdev ji and others! It would have taken much less energy! Just some questions of conscience and not to belittle.

You have free will and you can believe what you want. However if I accept the above from wiki, I might as well start believing in Hindu God's chamatkars and miracles. I am sure one cannot insult our Gurus more as we will miss a major portion of their teachings.

Just my opinions but I do feel strongly.

Sat Sri Akal.
 
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spnadmin

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

The following from the site http://www.sikh-history.com matches very well with what both scholars of medieval India and scholars of Vedic history know of Bhagat Namdev. So I would put this forward as a simple, straightforward, and uncompromising account of his life and the importance of his bani. In his life sketch belief in miracle-working is abhorrent to him. The only miracle is the intervention of One God on behalf of His creation. The tale of the rotating mandir is missing, as it is from scholarly historical studies of his life. It is also missing from scholarly Hindu accounts of his life. This suggests to me that a "mandir" did not rotate, rather, the mandir is representative of something else: minds changed and consciousness was transformed.

The article

Guru Granth Sahib recognizes many saints of the Bhakti movement of medieval India. Kabir, Farid, Namdev are the saints belonging to this movement which swept across the North India from 1100 A.D. till 1600 A.D. When Fifth Guru Guru Arjan dev ji compiled Guru Granth Sahib, he decided to give some recognition to the saints of Bhakti movement, that is the reason that Guru Granth Sahib contains verses of such saints. In some cases Guru Granth Sahib is the only voice remained for such saints over the years.

According to the generally accepted version of the current traditions, Namdev was born in AD 1270 to Damasheti, a low-caste tailor, and his wife, Gonabai, in the village of Naras-Vamani, in Satara district of Maharashtra. Janabai, the family's maidservant and a bhakta and poetess in her own right, records the tradition that Namdev was born to Gonabai as a result of her worship of Vitthala in Pandharpur. Namdev was married before he was eleven years of age to Rajabal, daughter of Govinda sheti Sadavarte. He had four sons and one daughter, Under the influence of saint Jnanadeva, Namdev was converted to the path of bhakti. Vitthala of Pandharpur was now the object of his devotion and he spent much of his time in worship and kirtan, chanting mostly verses of his own composition. In the company of Jnanadeva and other saints, he roamed about the country and later came to the Punjab where he is said to have lived for more than twenty years at Ghuman, in Gurdaspur district, where a temple in the form of samadh still preserves his memory. This temple was constructed by Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia and the tank by its side was got repaired by Rani Sada Kaur , mother-in-law of Maharaja Ranjit Singh . In his early fifties, Namdev settled down at Pandharpur where he gathered around himself a group of devotees. His abhangas or devotional lyrics became very popular, and people thronged to listen to his kirtan. Namdev's songs have been collected in Namdevachi Gatha which also includes the long autobiographical poem Tirathavah. His Hindi verse and his extended visit to the Punjab carried his fame far beyond the borders of Maharashtra. Sixty-one of his hymns in fact came to be included in Sikh Scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib. These hymns or sabdas share the common characteristic of lauding the One Supreme God distinct from his earlier verse which carries traces of idolatry and saguna bhakti. In the course of his spiritual quest, Namdev had, from being a worshipper of the Divine in the concrete form, become a devotee of the attributeless ( nirguna) Absolute.

Bhagat Namdev before Elephant

The legend about Bhagat Namdev is that at Gurdaspur Bhagat Namdev was asked by a king to show miracles which he refused as it meant intefering in God's way. Bhagat Namdev was thrown before a drunken elephant to be crushed to death. God saved His own saint. Namdev spent the last days of his life in village Guman.

Bhagat Nam Dev is a pioneer of the Radical bhakti School. Though he appeared a century earlier than Kabir, his religious and social views are very much like those of Kabir. He unambiguously repudiates all the four fundamentals of Vaisnavism. Though in his devotional approach, he is clearly a monotheist, he makes many pantheistic statements too, e.g., every thing is God; there is nothing but God; consider the world and God to be one; the foam and the water are not different. Chaturvedi writes: "Sant Nam Dev seemed to believe both in transcendence and immanence, in pantheism and nondualism. His devotion was purely of the non-attributional absolute. He also considers God to be immanent, everywhere, in all hearts, and the Creator of everything. Like Kabir and the Sufis, Namdev is very other worldly. He says, "The strength of contempt of the world should be in the body an unchanging companion. One should lay aside differences between oneself and others, and feel no anxiety for things of the world."Ranade also writes: "He (Nam Dev) tells us that it is impossible that the pursuit of God can be coupled with a life of Samsara. If it had been possible for a man to find God while he was pursuing Samsara, then Sanaka and others would not have grown mad after God. If it had been possible for him to see God while carrying on the duties of a householder, the great Suka would not have gone to the forest to seek God. Had it been possible for people to find God in their homes, they would not have left them to fond out. Nam Dev has left all these things, and is approaching God in utter submission (Abhg. 83).

NamDev's cosmogenic views are also orthodox. He says that God created maya and "maya is the name of the power that placeth man in the womb."Indirectly, he is neither happy with the world, nor with the human birth. Him, shop, shopkeeper, men and everything are unreal excepting God. In this background he seeks release from the world and suggests renunciation: " Namdev gave up trade, and devoted himself exclusively to the worship of God.

The world being a play of maya and not being a worthwhile of spiritual endeavours, Namdev's goal is to have union with God through devotion and singing. His praises. He says, "I perform worship, sing God's praises and meditate on Him for eight pahar in a day i.e, round the clock. At the same time, he suggests good conduct and purity of life. For, God created all men alike. Though he holds every person responsible for his acts, he clearly does not believe in a world rigidly governed by karma. Because he says: If everything were determined by karma, who created karma originally?

NamDev not only claims union with God, but, like Kabir, also states that more than once God miraculously intervened on his behalf to reveal Himself to him, or help him. Without doubt, Nam Dev's approach remains otherworldly both before and after his achievement. At one time, he even gave up work so as to remain absorbed in his worship and meditations. He never initiated any religious institution or movement. His was a solitary search for God, without creating any social or religious organisation.

We find that in his repudiation of Vaisnava doctrines, in his metaphysical ideas, methodology and goal, and more particularly in his otherworldly approach to the world and society, Namdev's views are quite identical with those of Kabir.
A good reference is Daljeet Singh "The Radical Bhagats"
 

Tejwant Singh

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Re: Did the Mandir ROTATE for Bhagat Namdev Ji ?

Prof Sahib Singh nJi alos gives this explanation. He also put in a note explaining that Bhagat Namdev Ji was a resident of Pandarpur and he was of course also known to be a shudra low caste so wasnt welcome in the Mandir and so this Visit where he was thrown out would have been a ONE OFF Visit in the heat of the moment called MAUJ of Bhagtee.
So he wasnt a regular visitor - either at the back or the front.
I heard a Katha Gyaan Da Sagar on ETC Punjabi of Gyani maskeen ji..and he was saying the Mandir TURNED PHYSICALLY and can be seen standing in Pandarpur Facing the WRONG WAY !! This is why I brought this up.
Can somebody confirm what Maskeen Ji and the other proponenets of the Mandir rotating are saying...is the Mandir turned ?? and also show proof that it originally faced another direction ...

I Thank Passingby for a well written note. Much appreciated Jios. Will reply if anything needs to be replied to.
Regards
Jarnail Singh:)
Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

You have explained beautifully about Bhagat Namdev according to our Gurmat values. Nothing more needs to be said.

Regarding your question about Maskeen ji, allow me to offer my 2cents. Although Maskeen ji's kathas are very enlightening, he gets carried away at times away from Gurmat during his oratories which can be found on YouTube. Case in point is his 45 cassette explanation of Jap which in my opinion has lots of stories that have nothing to do with Guru Nanak's Jap.

I remember many incidents during his Kathas when I was present and found him getting carried away easily. I remember in one of them he did mention that the Mandir moved physically and asked all to utter VAHEGURU.

Having said that, there is no doubt about his great contribution to Sikhi for which we are thankful and ever in debt.

Now,coming back to your original beautiful, very well written essay, we do have to move our mind all the times; physically, psychologically,mentally and spiritually so that our awareness of The ONE never goes dormant. It makes us not to become sleepwalker zombies,parrots with ugly plumages.

Last but not the least, it makes us breed goodness in a quantum physical manner, the never ending reservoir so that we always have more than enough to share this inner Langar with all.

Thanks once again for your insightful essay.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Tejwant Ji,
Gurfateh.

WELCOME BACK JIos....Glad to see you back here in your usual "roaring to go" style.
Missed your insights and input on many Threads. Guru Ji Kirpa karan and keep you in the best of health always ji.
Keep in Chardeekalla.
Regards Jarnail Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Jun 30, 2004
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Gyani ji and others,

Guru Fateh.

I would like to share with you all what happened yesterday at the Gurdawara divaan. The same shabad of Bhagat Naamdev was sung by a lady with a beautiful voice. And on the two giant screens the literal translation from "Sikhi to the Max" was shown which did say "the Temple physically turned around". Jaskeerat and Trimaan who sit next to me nudged me with a smirk on their faces because for them too it did not make any sense either.

So, later on when I was explaining the meaning of the Hukumnaama, I talked about Bhagat Naamdev's Shabad. Many members of the sangat later on came to me and mentioned that they were delighted to know the true meaning of the Shabad.

Interesting co-incidence to say the least.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaʼnkār
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Dec 21, 2010
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Tejwant Singh ji thanks for the update.

One has to help clean up, one at a time, the misguided beliefs propogated for vehm (andh vishwas or blind faith in generally supenaturals), bharm (suspicions about auspicious times, kundli's, etc.) and chamatkar(Miracle).

I wish Sikhism custodians will pay some attention to it with some seriousness. I am sure there is a great constituency of Andh Vidvashi leaders who will fight it as their livelihood probably rests in the continuation of these anti-Sikhism interpretations. Nothing loosens people's wallets like "Sangat close your eyes, japposatnamwaheguru:" when such concepts are mentioned by some parchariks/jathas/sants/mahants/etc.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: Perhaps another project for a Sikh soul to list as many of the prevailing vehms (andh vishwas or blind faith in generally supenaturals), bharms (suspicions about auspicious times, kundli's, etc.) and chamatkars (Miracle). winkingmunda
 
Aug 29, 2010
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TEJWANT SINGH Ji

Pl accept my Divine Greetings,

I know you are well aware where the problem lies.We shoiuld come forward to rectify the method of Gurbaani understanding if we are at all convinced about this cause of misunderstanding.

For so many years we have been listening to the same stories based on literal meanings of Gurbaani words.You must have noticed there are many METAPHORS used in Gurbaani .If the meanings of these METAPHORS is derived according to literal meanings of the words then the meanings do not match the Gurmati way .

Therefore there is need to find and establish the BASIC RULES of Gurbaani interpretation of course based on grammar of the words.THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN KNOW THE TRUE MESSAGES OF GURBAANI WITHOUT ANY CONFUSION.

With best wishes
Prakash.s.Bagga
 

spnadmin

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Jun 17, 2004
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Tejwant ji

Gurfateh! The sangat was blessed that you were there to straighten things out! :) The ripple effect is what will make a difference, because they will feel more confident to spread that message. It is an uphill battle when an entire sangat must work against the forces of inertia (in the scientific sense only) that support these poojaree-hatched notions.
 

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