Who said a virgin male would only be for females ??
I'm sure the gay homosexual would take it as quite a reward!winkingmundawinkingmunda
Islam Description Of The Virgins In Paradise
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Who said a virgin male would only be for females ??
I'm sure the gay homosexual would take it as quite a reward!winkingmundawinkingmunda
No, No, it would all be about caring, sharing and occasional massage!winkingmundaicecreamkaur
Cant a "non-virgin" ( read USED / second-hand / pre-loved etc ) do ALL that ?? what has an unbroken hymen got to do with it ??
2. Secondly read the graphic description..all that big boobs (full breasted bosoms) stuff would make any virgin male salivate...THATS the "mission" behind this..not some old caring/sharing/massage stuff..who really needs that..ha ha..so those crazies will go happily to their gross ends blowing their own bodies as well a s hundred s of innocent civilians...salivating like pavlovs dogs....
- May 9, 2006
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Why else would there have to be virgins there? What other possible reason would there be for the virginitiy of someone to be even remotely relevant if not with regards to sex? :}
:
what could be remotely SPIRITUAL about a a system that is so fixated on sex sex sex virginity and boobs bosoms etc etc..
- May 9, 2006
- 3,261
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I know Wikipedia is not always the best source of information, but since I'm not really that inclined to do proper research on this topic I thought I'd get some outside information to clarify some points.
Descriptions of the 'virgins':
Without reading the Quran personally (relying on the translations of others which we see clearly with translations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj can be biased per the cultural mindset of the translator) I can't verify or refute the above Quranic summary (and expanded descriptions at Wikipedia). From this summary I can only say that if the Quran were indeed the bedrock of Islam then there is nothing really untoward about the description of virgins in Paradise.
As with all things, it is only when corrupt humans get their sticky little fingers (and minds) into things that they start to get a tad farfetched:
Although the sensible people will say the above might be controversial and/or unreliable, unfortunately it probably is a very good piece of advertising as men are generally guided by their lower passions and what better way to inspire a young, hot-blooded male? In patriarchal societies you get a lot more power when you've got the men on your side, why would you advertise so explicitly to women if they are already a captive audience?
Within all societies we find people of varying intellects. For some people a description of the ecstatic awareness of God might be meaningless to little pea brains. So in an effort to keep them on the right track, you describe things in a more basic way that they can understand.
And then you get the sickos who get all excited and just go too far.
I'm going to stick with the Quran on this one and leave the barbie and ken dolls for others to play with.
In Islam, the ḥūr or ḥūrīyah (Arabic: حورية) are commonly translated as "(splendid)[1] companions of equal age (well-matched)",[2] "lovely eyed",[3] of "modest gaze",[4] "pure beings" or "companions pure" of paradise, denoting humans and jinn who enter paradise after being recreated anew in the hereafter.[5] Islam also has a strong mystical tradition which places these heavenly delights in the context of the ecstatic awareness of God.[6]
So even in Islam there is a mystical tradition which reflects the same core truth we find in Sikhi and mystical Catholicism - ecstatic awareness of God.
Descriptions of the 'virgins':
Qur'anic description: The houri have variously been described as being "restraining their glances (chaste)",[7][8] "modest gaze",[4] "wide and beautiful/lovely eyes",[3][7][9][10] "like pearls",[11] "spouse",[12] "companions of equal age",[2][13] "splendid"[1] and much more besides. Qur'an does not specify a Gender which means it could be a male or a female.
Shia Scholar description: Still all in accordance with Qur'an, the basic fact of the description of this beauty is how good deeds take the ideal order and proportion to physical forms, how they won't fade away over time, and how they accompany their performers.[14] This description is widely used in Sufism and Mysticism.[15]
Other descriptions: Some descriptions are more superficial rather than scholarly. For example, "non-menstruating/urinating/defecating and childfree[16][17] or being able to have a short pregnancy lasting an hour[18]", "with bodies not affected by pregnancy or breast-feeding",[16] "60 cubits [27.5 meters] tall",[17][19][20] "7 cubits [3.2 meters] in width",[17] "transparent to the marrow of their bones",[16][21] "eternally young",[22] "hairless except the eyebrows and the head",[22] "pure",[21] "beautiful",[21]
Shia Scholar description: Still all in accordance with Qur'an, the basic fact of the description of this beauty is how good deeds take the ideal order and proportion to physical forms, how they won't fade away over time, and how they accompany their performers.[14] This description is widely used in Sufism and Mysticism.[15]
Other descriptions: Some descriptions are more superficial rather than scholarly. For example, "non-menstruating/urinating/defecating and childfree[16][17] or being able to have a short pregnancy lasting an hour[18]", "with bodies not affected by pregnancy or breast-feeding",[16] "60 cubits [27.5 meters] tall",[17][19][20] "7 cubits [3.2 meters] in width",[17] "transparent to the marrow of their bones",[16][21] "eternally young",[22] "hairless except the eyebrows and the head",[22] "pure",[21] "beautiful",[21]
Without reading the Quran personally (relying on the translations of others which we see clearly with translations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj can be biased per the cultural mindset of the translator) I can't verify or refute the above Quranic summary (and expanded descriptions at Wikipedia). From this summary I can only say that if the Quran were indeed the bedrock of Islam then there is nothing really untoward about the description of virgins in Paradise.
As with all things, it is only when corrupt humans get their sticky little fingers (and minds) into things that they start to get a tad farfetched:
Al-Tirmidhi (824 - 892) was a medieval collector of hadiths, some deemed controversial and unreliable.[46]
- "A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings."[49]
Although the sensible people will say the above might be controversial and/or unreliable, unfortunately it probably is a very good piece of advertising as men are generally guided by their lower passions and what better way to inspire a young, hot-blooded male? In patriarchal societies you get a lot more power when you've got the men on your side, why would you advertise so explicitly to women if they are already a captive audience?
Within all societies we find people of varying intellects. For some people a description of the ecstatic awareness of God might be meaningless to little pea brains. So in an effort to keep them on the right track, you describe things in a more basic way that they can understand.
And then you get the sickos who get all excited and just go too far.
I'm going to stick with the Quran on this one and leave the barbie and ken dolls for others to play with.
- May 9, 2006
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A sillier thought I had was that perhaps when we die we're taken back to the Mothership and the descriptions are actually of our alien creators because I can imagine an alien being 27 metres tall, transparent, and with big white eyes with bright black pupils.
Seriously, why not? :whatzpointkudi:
Seriously, why not? :whatzpointkudi:
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BaljinderS
SPNer
- Dec 29, 2011
- 171
- 251
I think we have wasted too much on this... it looks that was intention of this post.... do we really need to comment on this? I'm sure there are other posts who deserve more time and attention peacesign
- Jan 31, 2011
- 5,769
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Baljinderji,
Au contraire brother, I have learnt that there are indeed two Islams, a beautiful, progressive religion that stands side by side with Sikhi on a lot of topics, and a secondary one built on metaphors that seems to have been taken literally by a lot of our Muslim brothers and sisters.
I cannot accept the Islam that is shown in the light as illuminated by Nabenji, it is almost as someone has gone to great pains to show how devoid of humanity and how important sexual attraction is in Islam, it is not a great PR job at all, it has taken a Sikh, and female at that (horror of horrors), to educate me as to how Islam should be understood, maybe she could teach Nabenji a thing or two about his own religion.
Au contraire brother, I have learnt that there are indeed two Islams, a beautiful, progressive religion that stands side by side with Sikhi on a lot of topics, and a secondary one built on metaphors that seems to have been taken literally by a lot of our Muslim brothers and sisters.
I cannot accept the Islam that is shown in the light as illuminated by Nabenji, it is almost as someone has gone to great pains to show how devoid of humanity and how important sexual attraction is in Islam, it is not a great PR job at all, it has taken a Sikh, and female at that (horror of horrors), to educate me as to how Islam should be understood, maybe she could teach Nabenji a thing or two about his own religion.
My dear brother Harry Haller ji peacesign
Have you ever heard of Nizari Ismaili Shi'ite Muslims? They are wonderful people. They are led by a spiritual figure called the, "Imam of the Time" or the Agha Khan. They have renounced traditional Islamic jihad against unbelievers, and even do not enforce hijab upon men or women ie the headscarf for women.
This is is because they believe that Islam's teachings can be "updated" to meet the needs of different time periods, because their Imam has the authority to interpret Islam, and he alone. So whatever the Imam teaches, Nizaris must obey.
And so the Agha Khan has used his spiritual authority to re-interpret for his Muslims the Islamic faith in light of modernity.
You see Sunni Muslims believe in the Caliphate - that Muhammad was suceeded by a series of worldly Emperors with both temporal and spiritual power whose mission was to expand the Dar al-harb (House of Islam) and essentially be in a state of constant jihad (war/struggle) with what they called the Dar al-harb (House of War).
As the Jewish encycloepedia explains:
"...The world is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb. The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law. The law also provided that the jihad might be interrupted by truces as and when appropriate. In practice, the periods of peace and war were not vastly different from those which existed between the Christian states of Europe for most of European history.
The law thus divides unbelievers theologically into those who have a book and profess what Islam recognizes as a divine religion and those who do not; politically into dhimmis, those who have accepted the supremacy of the Muslim state and the primacy of the Muslims, and harbis, the denizens of the Dar al-harb, the House of War, who remain outside the Islamic frontier, and with whom therefore there is in principle, a canonically obligatory perpetual state of war until the whole world is either converted or subjugated..."
Shi'ite Muslims disagreed with Sunnis. They believed that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as Imams, have special spiritual and political authority over the Ummah (Islamic community) as his heirs and successors.
Of these the Nizaris emerged as the most tolerant and progressive form of Islam, different from other Shi'ites.
Two forms of Shi'ism emerged: Ismailism and Twelverism. The latter accepted only Twelve Imams, whereas the Ismailis still have an Imam today, and have had a line of many more.
After the death of Muhammad ibn Ismail in the 8th century AD, the teachings of Ismailism became further solifiied into the very tolerant belief system we see nowadays, with an explicit emphasis placed on the deeper, esoteric meaning (batin) of the Islamic religion. With the eventual development of Twelverism into the more literalistic (zahir) oriented Akhbari and later Usooli schools of thought, Shi'ism developed into two separate forms: the metaphorical Ismaʿili group focusing on the mystical path and nature of Allah, with the "Imam of the Time" representing the manifestation of truth and reality, and the more literalistic Twelver group focusing on divine law (sharia) and the deeds and sayings (sunnah) of Muhammad and the Twelve Imams who were guides and a light to God.
The latter, who rule today in the Islamic Republic of Iran and are now the largest Shi'ite group, are very intolerant and hard-line just like the Sunnis whereas the Nizaris have always been more mystical, esoteric and progressive.
To this end the Fatimid Empire which ruled in Egypt during the 10th century, under the Ismaili form of Islam, was known for its tolerance towards Jews and Christians - although not "non-Abrahamic" religions, who were still treated as kufar (infidels/idolaters) and as with Sunnism and Shi'ism, Nizaris in theory saw themselves as in a permanent state of war with these people, who had to convert although in practice this probably did not occur. Jews and Coptic Christians, however, flourished under the Fatimids, even though they were badly persecuted in other Islamic countries under different forms of Islam.
In addition we have the Sufi Muslims, who during the eighth century AD gathered a lot of their ideas from native Persian Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Christian monasticism and Iranian Buddhism to form a very mystical, all-embracing, universalist religion within the Islamic world that has been terribly persecuted by Orthodox Muslims. Sufism, however, is very different from Orthodox Islam - Al-Ghazali in the 11th century tried to make an Orthodox form of it, to the extent that he agreed with Orthodox Muslims that there must be Jihad against unbelievers - he stated that it was legitimate to catapult non-believers!
In its essence though, Sufism is a mystical movement of pluralism within the Islamic world, however it is very, very different - as a result of its many inherited teachings from other religions - from mainstream Islam, which is why it is better I think to focus on the Nizaris who are a mainstream form of Islam, with ideas begotten solely within Islam, but one that has developed tolerance and the ability to evolve. Sufis, alternatively, took the Qur'an and mystically interpreted it, yes like Nizaris, however unlike Nizaris they understood it through the lens of concepts which they had inherited not from within Islam but from Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Christianity. This means that despite what some people say, one cannot jusge Islam on the basis of Sufism, which is in my opinion a new religion within the Islamic religion or rather a religion that has developed within an Islamic milieu. Sufi poetry abounds with criticism of Islamic piety; of the Kaaba; of imams and mosques; of the five pillars of Islam and it exults in wine imagery, spiritual drukenness, music (which is banned under Islamic law) and dancing (which is also banned under Shar'iah law).
Sufism was a reaction against the worldliness of early Islam as typified by the Abbasid Caliphate, and the lack of spirituality and the literalism. The Sufi robe is said to be of Buddhist origin.
The Sufi concepts of Union with the Divine and fana (self-annihilation) which is the ultimate goal of the Sufi path, has no basis in the Qur'an or the Hadith and are described by historians such as Homa Katouzian and Malika Mohammada, among others, as being derived from the Upanishads. They first appear in Islamic history in the utterances of Abu Yazid of Bistam, a 9th century Persian mystic who had heterodox views and was a convert from Zoroastrianism (of Zoroastrian ancestry), who took with him his native religious beliefs into Islam, to try and make it more mystical. I note that SPN, wisely I think and correctly, has "Islam" and "Sufism" as separate religions in the interfaith section of the forum. I am very pleased with this, since it fits with my understanding of the relationship between Islam and Sufism.
Nizaris however are fully mainstream Muslims who are utterly progressive. Read up on them!
Islam is not as monolithic as outsiders think. It is very diverse, very fragmented and each Islamic sect views the other as heretics.
Much love and hope this short explanation helps! peacesign
Have you ever heard of Nizari Ismaili Shi'ite Muslims? They are wonderful people. They are led by a spiritual figure called the, "Imam of the Time" or the Agha Khan. They have renounced traditional Islamic jihad against unbelievers, and even do not enforce hijab upon men or women ie the headscarf for women.
This is is because they believe that Islam's teachings can be "updated" to meet the needs of different time periods, because their Imam has the authority to interpret Islam, and he alone. So whatever the Imam teaches, Nizaris must obey.
And so the Agha Khan has used his spiritual authority to re-interpret for his Muslims the Islamic faith in light of modernity.
You see Sunni Muslims believe in the Caliphate - that Muhammad was suceeded by a series of worldly Emperors with both temporal and spiritual power whose mission was to expand the Dar al-harb (House of Islam) and essentially be in a state of constant jihad (war/struggle) with what they called the Dar al-harb (House of War).
As the Jewish encycloepedia explains:
"...The world is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-harb. The Dar al-Islam is all those lands in which a Muslim government rules and the Holy Law of Islam prevails. Non-Muslims may live there on Muslim sufferance. The outside world, which has not yet been subjugated, is called the "House of War," and strictly speaking a perpetual state of jihad, of holy war, is imposed by the law. The law also provided that the jihad might be interrupted by truces as and when appropriate. In practice, the periods of peace and war were not vastly different from those which existed between the Christian states of Europe for most of European history.
The law thus divides unbelievers theologically into those who have a book and profess what Islam recognizes as a divine religion and those who do not; politically into dhimmis, those who have accepted the supremacy of the Muslim state and the primacy of the Muslims, and harbis, the denizens of the Dar al-harb, the House of War, who remain outside the Islamic frontier, and with whom therefore there is in principle, a canonically obligatory perpetual state of war until the whole world is either converted or subjugated..."
Shi'ite Muslims disagreed with Sunnis. They believed that Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, who are known as Imams, have special spiritual and political authority over the Ummah (Islamic community) as his heirs and successors.
Of these the Nizaris emerged as the most tolerant and progressive form of Islam, different from other Shi'ites.
Two forms of Shi'ism emerged: Ismailism and Twelverism. The latter accepted only Twelve Imams, whereas the Ismailis still have an Imam today, and have had a line of many more.
After the death of Muhammad ibn Ismail in the 8th century AD, the teachings of Ismailism became further solifiied into the very tolerant belief system we see nowadays, with an explicit emphasis placed on the deeper, esoteric meaning (batin) of the Islamic religion. With the eventual development of Twelverism into the more literalistic (zahir) oriented Akhbari and later Usooli schools of thought, Shi'ism developed into two separate forms: the metaphorical Ismaʿili group focusing on the mystical path and nature of Allah, with the "Imam of the Time" representing the manifestation of truth and reality, and the more literalistic Twelver group focusing on divine law (sharia) and the deeds and sayings (sunnah) of Muhammad and the Twelve Imams who were guides and a light to God.
The latter, who rule today in the Islamic Republic of Iran and are now the largest Shi'ite group, are very intolerant and hard-line just like the Sunnis whereas the Nizaris have always been more mystical, esoteric and progressive.
To this end the Fatimid Empire which ruled in Egypt during the 10th century, under the Ismaili form of Islam, was known for its tolerance towards Jews and Christians - although not "non-Abrahamic" religions, who were still treated as kufar (infidels/idolaters) and as with Sunnism and Shi'ism, Nizaris in theory saw themselves as in a permanent state of war with these people, who had to convert although in practice this probably did not occur. Jews and Coptic Christians, however, flourished under the Fatimids, even though they were badly persecuted in other Islamic countries under different forms of Islam.
In addition we have the Sufi Muslims, who during the eighth century AD gathered a lot of their ideas from native Persian Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Christian monasticism and Iranian Buddhism to form a very mystical, all-embracing, universalist religion within the Islamic world that has been terribly persecuted by Orthodox Muslims. Sufism, however, is very different from Orthodox Islam - Al-Ghazali in the 11th century tried to make an Orthodox form of it, to the extent that he agreed with Orthodox Muslims that there must be Jihad against unbelievers - he stated that it was legitimate to catapult non-believers!
In its essence though, Sufism is a mystical movement of pluralism within the Islamic world, however it is very, very different - as a result of its many inherited teachings from other religions - from mainstream Islam, which is why it is better I think to focus on the Nizaris who are a mainstream form of Islam, with ideas begotten solely within Islam, but one that has developed tolerance and the ability to evolve. Sufis, alternatively, took the Qur'an and mystically interpreted it, yes like Nizaris, however unlike Nizaris they understood it through the lens of concepts which they had inherited not from within Islam but from Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Christianity. This means that despite what some people say, one cannot jusge Islam on the basis of Sufism, which is in my opinion a new religion within the Islamic religion or rather a religion that has developed within an Islamic milieu. Sufi poetry abounds with criticism of Islamic piety; of the Kaaba; of imams and mosques; of the five pillars of Islam and it exults in wine imagery, spiritual drukenness, music (which is banned under Islamic law) and dancing (which is also banned under Shar'iah law).
Sufism was a reaction against the worldliness of early Islam as typified by the Abbasid Caliphate, and the lack of spirituality and the literalism. The Sufi robe is said to be of Buddhist origin.
The Sufi concepts of Union with the Divine and fana (self-annihilation) which is the ultimate goal of the Sufi path, has no basis in the Qur'an or the Hadith and are described by historians such as Homa Katouzian and Malika Mohammada, among others, as being derived from the Upanishads. They first appear in Islamic history in the utterances of Abu Yazid of Bistam, a 9th century Persian mystic who had heterodox views and was a convert from Zoroastrianism (of Zoroastrian ancestry), who took with him his native religious beliefs into Islam, to try and make it more mystical. I note that SPN, wisely I think and correctly, has "Islam" and "Sufism" as separate religions in the interfaith section of the forum. I am very pleased with this, since it fits with my understanding of the relationship between Islam and Sufism.
Nizaris however are fully mainstream Muslims who are utterly progressive. Read up on them!
Islam is not as monolithic as outsiders think. It is very diverse, very fragmented and each Islamic sect views the other as heretics.
Much love and hope this short explanation helps! peacesign
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Nizari Ismailism is in my opinion the best form of Islam. I was very nourished, spiritually, by learning about their beliefs. They are the most mystical, tolerant, progressive and modern of all mainstream Islamic denominations that I know of.
They are on very good terms with the American government, oppose terrorism outright, and the Agha Khan is a champion of religious tolerance, human rights and freedom.
They are a light in the Islamic world, a light of tolerance and justice.
They even allow intermarriage between Muslim men and women and non-Muslims (although only of Abrahamic faiths and Zoroastrianiam). They are still encouraged to marry within the community.
Here is one of their websites: http://www.theismaili.org/
They are on very good terms with the American government, oppose terrorism outright, and the Agha Khan is a champion of religious tolerance, human rights and freedom.
They are a light in the Islamic world, a light of tolerance and justice.
They even allow intermarriage between Muslim men and women and non-Muslims (although only of Abrahamic faiths and Zoroastrianiam). They are still encouraged to marry within the community.
Here is one of their websites: http://www.theismaili.org/
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An expert on Ismaili Islam writes:
"...In the Qur’ân, Jews and Christians are designated as Ahl al-Kitâb (People of the Book). The Book (Kitâb) refers to previous revelation such as the Torah (Tawrât), the Psalms (Zabûr), and the Gospels (Injîl). The status of Ahl al-Kitâb is distinguished from the one of idolaters (mushrikûn) (XXVII: 62s.). The latter are invited to adopt Islâm whereas Jews and Christians may keep their religion. The Qur’ân (III: 110, 199) recommends Muslims to be respectful toward Ahl al-Kitâb since there are sincere believers among them...After the death of the Prophet, his direct descendants through his daughter Fâtima and his cousin `Alî, had to wait many centuries before creating in 567/909 the Fâtimid Empire, which extended from actual Palestine to Tunisia...During the Fâtimid period, Christians and Jews had full liberty to celebrate their festivals. Muslims took part in these celebrations and the state participated as well. The government also used some Christian festivals as an occasion for the distribution of garments and money among the people. Christians and Jews were employed in the Fâtimid administration. They were able to reach very important ranks, even to go as high as the position of vizier. It is worth mentioning that no similar examples of employment of non-Muslim viziers are known among other Muslim contemporary dynasties. Nowhere in the Muslim world during that time could non-Muslims accede to such a rank... Continuing the Ismaili tradition, even today, His Highness the Âghâ Khân, while not a head of a state, represents an international community and one of the world’s largest philanthropic organizations, employing many skillful people who are not Muslims. His institutions benefit from the competence of people coming from different cultures and religions. In many of his speeches, he also recognizes that Western ethical principles of faith are essentially the same as those of Islâm. In the contemporary Islâmic world, the treatment of the Ahl al-Kitâb varies from one Muslim country to another..."
- Diana Steigerwald
Religious Studies, California State University (Long Beach)
It should also be noted that the fifth Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim broke with this tradition of tolerance and brutally repressed Christians, even destroying the holiest place in Christianity - the Church of the holy Sepulchre, the Christian equivalent of Mecca. Thousands of Christians perished under his tyrannical reign. However, toward the end of his reign, al-Hâkim changed his policy. Thus, he restored some of the churches and became more tolerant toward the Christians and their religious practices. The following Caliph al-Zâhir (d.427/1036) established a policy of religious tolerance.
This was a rupture with the past, nevertheless the Christian community in this area never fully recovered and the Fatimid Caliphate started to deteroriate and edge towards collapse.
Of course it is only "Ahl-Kitab" (Jews and Christians), everyone else...well...the Ismailis still have to be commended historically, for their tolerance compared with the rest of the Islamic world, and especially nowadays for their progression, evolution and complete tolerance and opposition to terrorism, as well as their more mystical understanding of Islam.
There are somewhere between an estimated 15 million Nizaris, although some estimates suggest somewhere between 5-15 million.
"...In the Qur’ân, Jews and Christians are designated as Ahl al-Kitâb (People of the Book). The Book (Kitâb) refers to previous revelation such as the Torah (Tawrât), the Psalms (Zabûr), and the Gospels (Injîl). The status of Ahl al-Kitâb is distinguished from the one of idolaters (mushrikûn) (XXVII: 62s.). The latter are invited to adopt Islâm whereas Jews and Christians may keep their religion. The Qur’ân (III: 110, 199) recommends Muslims to be respectful toward Ahl al-Kitâb since there are sincere believers among them...After the death of the Prophet, his direct descendants through his daughter Fâtima and his cousin `Alî, had to wait many centuries before creating in 567/909 the Fâtimid Empire, which extended from actual Palestine to Tunisia...During the Fâtimid period, Christians and Jews had full liberty to celebrate their festivals. Muslims took part in these celebrations and the state participated as well. The government also used some Christian festivals as an occasion for the distribution of garments and money among the people. Christians and Jews were employed in the Fâtimid administration. They were able to reach very important ranks, even to go as high as the position of vizier. It is worth mentioning that no similar examples of employment of non-Muslim viziers are known among other Muslim contemporary dynasties. Nowhere in the Muslim world during that time could non-Muslims accede to such a rank... Continuing the Ismaili tradition, even today, His Highness the Âghâ Khân, while not a head of a state, represents an international community and one of the world’s largest philanthropic organizations, employing many skillful people who are not Muslims. His institutions benefit from the competence of people coming from different cultures and religions. In many of his speeches, he also recognizes that Western ethical principles of faith are essentially the same as those of Islâm. In the contemporary Islâmic world, the treatment of the Ahl al-Kitâb varies from one Muslim country to another..."
- Diana Steigerwald
Religious Studies, California State University (Long Beach)
It should also be noted that the fifth Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim broke with this tradition of tolerance and brutally repressed Christians, even destroying the holiest place in Christianity - the Church of the holy Sepulchre, the Christian equivalent of Mecca. Thousands of Christians perished under his tyrannical reign. However, toward the end of his reign, al-Hâkim changed his policy. Thus, he restored some of the churches and became more tolerant toward the Christians and their religious practices. The following Caliph al-Zâhir (d.427/1036) established a policy of religious tolerance.
This was a rupture with the past, nevertheless the Christian community in this area never fully recovered and the Fatimid Caliphate started to deteroriate and edge towards collapse.
Of course it is only "Ahl-Kitab" (Jews and Christians), everyone else...well...the Ismailis still have to be commended historically, for their tolerance compared with the rest of the Islamic world, and especially nowadays for their progression, evolution and complete tolerance and opposition to terrorism, as well as their more mystical understanding of Islam.
There are somewhere between an estimated 15 million Nizaris, although some estimates suggest somewhere between 5-15 million.
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Thankyou very much for that Vouthon I have read up on this Islam religion before but have never been able to make any sense of it especially this sunni and Shitte stuff thanks for the translation of the madness that transpires from a simple thought. Peace!
Well I had never heard of ismailli muslims before I came to Canada.
Although, the number of muslims here are quite small compared to punjabis, there are a few small communities of ismailli muslims.
They do differ from the pakistani muslim majority that you encounter in the UK in the sense that they speak a form of gujurati.
I don't notice many women wearing headscarfs either.
Although, the number of muslims here are quite small compared to punjabis, there are a few small communities of ismailli muslims.
They do differ from the pakistani muslim majority that you encounter in the UK in the sense that they speak a form of gujurati.
I don't notice many women wearing headscarfs either.
Their Head Quarters is in KADIAN (QADYIAN) PUNJAB near Amritsar. They are also called Qadyianai Muslims and are persona-non-grata in Pakistan and other muslim countries (otherwise known as Murtad or ***** mulsims !!) Their Mosques are regularly attacked and destroyed in Indonesia by radicla Muslims..in Malaysia they a re barely "tolerated"... Their ANNUAL SAMAGAM in Kadian Punjab draws MILLIONS...
It makes a little more sense, since I notice that they keep a low profile. They don't go around saying i'm an 'ismaili' muslim or anything.
I did at first wonder why I had never encountered them before!!
The few I have come across, don't seem too bothered about availability of halal here. There is hardly any halal available for that matter
I did at first wonder why I had never encountered them before!!
The few I have come across, don't seem too bothered about availability of halal here. There is hardly any halal available for that matter
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STATE BACKED PERSECUTION OF AHMADIYYA MUSLIMS IN INDONESIA (ISLAM AHMADIYYA) - YouTube
ANTV Report; Ahmadiyya Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
ANTV Report; Ahmadiyya Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
NDTV Report; Ahmadiyya Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
Aljazeera News - Ahmadiyya Muslim Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
Government involvement in persecution of Ahmadi Muslims - Indonesia - - YouTube
GOOGLE for more..this is just a small sample..and I am pretty sure the "attackers" are being lured by the 72 Virgins...promised to them as good muslims..
ANTV Report; Ahmadiyya Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
ANTV Report; Ahmadiyya Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
NDTV Report; Ahmadiyya Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
Aljazeera News - Ahmadiyya Muslim Persecution in Indonesia - YouTube
Government involvement in persecution of Ahmadi Muslims - Indonesia - - YouTube
GOOGLE for more..this is just a small sample..and I am pretty sure the "attackers" are being lured by the 72 Virgins...promised to them as good muslims..
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