Welcome to SPN

Register and Join the most happening forum of Sikh community & intellectuals from around the world.

Sign Up Now!

Definition Of Sant In Sikh Religion

Discussion in 'Questions & Answers' started by sachbol, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. sachbol

    sachbol
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    146
    Sadh Sangatji,
    Waheguruji ka Khalsa, Waheguruji ki Fateh

    In our religion Baba Budhaji served 6 Guru Saheban and was the first Granthi of Sri Guru Granth Saheb but Guru saheban never used word Sant for him. Four saahebzade, 40 Mukte, Bhai Sati Dasji, Bhai Mati Dasji and Bhai Dayaliji were never called as Sant by Guru Sahebans. Now we see a flood of Sants. Sants with lot of money. sants with costly cars, sants with high following and sants with armed body guards is a common site.

    Please try to explain me who is a SANT ?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Loading...


  3. Archived_Member16

    Archived_Member16
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Thinker

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,450
    Likes Received:
    3,760
    • Like Like x 1
  4. findingmyway

    findingmyway
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer Thinker Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    3,764
    No human being can be a sant. Anyone who says they are cannot possibly be as they are too full of ego. Even our Guru's didn't call themselves sants
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Gyani Jarnail Singh

    Gyani Jarnail Singh Malaysia
    Expand Collapse
    Sawa lakh se EK larraoan
    Mentor Writer SPNer Thinker

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,639
    Likes Received:
    14,228
    BHAAG HOA.....GUR-SANT milaya..is Guru Arjun Ji Sahib and the GUR-SANT is Guru Ramdass Ji. NO explanation could be MORE CLEARER than THAT. period.

    ONLY SGGS is SANT.

    Please go through the SPN archives..this has been discussed before.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. OP
    sachbol

    sachbol
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    146
    Satkaryog Gyani Jarnail Singhji,

    Thank you very much for your valuable comments.

    An individual Sikh can not be a Sant and if he is a Sant then he can not be a Sikh.

    Waheguru may enlighten usjapposatnamwaheguru:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. aristotle

    aristotle
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer Thinker

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    2,655
    Even Gurus, or great Sikhs like Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Bidhi Chand, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and many others whose I haven't mentioned, were not called 'Sant' in Sikh history. But, the idle and ill-learned self-proclaimed 'Babas' of present times don't get tired of inserting 'degrees' like 'Sant', 'Huzoor Maharaj', '108', 'Brahm-gyaani'. That gives me a mixed feeling of laughter and pity on these 'Babas' and their 'sheep-like' followers.......
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. OP
    sachbol

    sachbol
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    146
    Thanx. This massage has to be amplified.
    1. We should not go to their diwans
    2. If we go then do not do any Mathha Tekna to these so called sants
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Original

    Original
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    529
    Sant and Saint are invariably the one and the same !

    Definitions:

    Saint [English] - a person of great holiness, virtue, or benevolence

    Sant [Gurmukhi] - a person who neither sleeps nor awakes [spiritually] , but remains constantly
    connected with God [ਕਿਆ ਸਵਣਾ ਕਿਆ ਜਾਗਣਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਤੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ ਜਿਨਾ ਸਾਸਿ ਗਿਰਾਸਿ ਨ
    ਵਿਸਰੈ ਸੇ ਪੂਰੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਪਰਧਾਨ SGGSJ, 313:as directed by Mahan Khosh, on page 182,

    vol 1. It further adds, a person of subdued mind who practices union with God.

    The motto "saint soldier" [sant sipahi] underpins Khalsa Philosophy. SGGSJ speaks very highly of such a being. In fact, Guru Nanak goes the extra mile in proclaiming that for his comfort, he, Nanak, wants the "dust that has been generated by the footfall of saints" [ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸੁ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਗੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਕਰਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਧੂਰੇ II SGGSJ, 13].

    So what does that tell you about the word sant ? Well it tells you, there is such an entity as a saint and not only is he human, but pretty much a "model" human the likeness of which is to be mirrored and aspired within all. Of the 7.3 billion population, fair amount can be accredited with the title "sant" for they'd be characteristic traits culminating virtuous deeds. You've got to go in with an open mind, but if you've preconceived notions such as you mention above then you're going to miss the wood for the tree.

    Much obliged
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #8 Original, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  10. chazSingh

    chazSingh Belgium
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,596

    I also believe if you need the company of a 'true' Saint then the universe will conspire to make that happen...a person does not need to seek a Saint...God will feel your inner Ardaas calling for His sanctuary and then all is in His hands...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Loved It! Loved It! x 1
  11. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    7,967
    again, pardon me for asking questions, but what is the difference between you making an inner Ardaas calling for his sanctuary, and a woman being brutally gang raped begging god for sanctuary? is it in the delivery, or is there a format for asking? do special words need to be said? Why does God care more about your benefit of sanctuary then say the starving, the murdered? If we lived in a world of peace and love, I could understand, but we do not, we live in a violent world where people are hurt and maimed daily, many thousands, daily, what sort of God ignores them and listens to our vain pleas for sanctuary?
     
  12. chazSingh

    chazSingh Belgium
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Hey Harry,

    As always you ask a lot of questions...similar questions to what i used to ask and sometimes still ask...and as always my answer is if you really want to obtain real answers to these questions you have to do as per SGGS Ji...

    you really have to open SGGS Ji and take time and effort to contemplate on the Shabads...the Shabads are there for this purpose...no one will be able to give you an answer whereby you will be content and happy because the 'Truth' of life doesn't appear to be something our Ego existence can handle...The Ego requires Multiplicity... :)

    Viewing the world from 'street' level gives a different picture to viewing the world from the top of the worlds tallest building...
    both are valid but your outlook will be different based on each...

    Change your point of reference and maybe you'll get real answers to your questions that you'll be happy with... SGGS Ji tells you how you can change your perspective, your viewpoint, now...today...this life...this moment..
     
  13. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    7,967
    I have always loved your humility, however, I have to confess that that the answers contained in the SGGSji, for sure are there, however, no two people could read the SGGSji and come to the same conclusions, therefore the answers to the questions you have asked, you may have answered, but it would be a combination of your interpretation and life experiences that give you the answer, therefore the answer has to be different for almost everyone. I am not actually asking for answers, I am pointing out that the smooth flow of sense does not exist, the world is illogical, people are illogical,

    your street metaphor is interesting, however, at street level, one can visit and interact, at the higher level, one cannot, not immediately anyway, but it brings me back to my first point, what is the point of seeing all, everything, but at a level that you neither can or wish to touch?

    Oh, I will never get the answers I will be happy with, but that is because I am through with hammering and beating a concept until it fits in with my answer,

    as always a pleasure..
     
  14. chazSingh

    chazSingh Belgium
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    SGGS Ji page 229

    Such shabads are truely mind blowing....they hit your Ego hard!

    ਕੋਊ ਨਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਸੁਰਗ ਬੰਛਾਵਤ
    कोऊ नरक कोऊ सुरग बंछावत ॥
    Ko▫ū narak ko▫ū surag bancẖẖāvaṯ.
    Some have gone to hell, and some yearn for paradise.

    ਆਲ ਜਾਲ ਮਾਇਆ ਜੰਜਾਲ
    आल जाल माइआ जंजाल ॥
    Āl jāl mā▫i▫ā janjāl.
    Worldly snares and entanglements of Maya,

    ਹਉਮੈ ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਭੈ ਭਾਰ
    हउमै मोह भरम भै भार ॥
    Ha▫umai moh bẖaram bẖai bẖār.
    egotism, attachment, doubt and loads of fear;

    ਦੂਖ ਸੂਖ ਮਾਨ ਅਪਮਾਨ
    दूख सूख मान अपमान ॥
    Ḏūkẖ sūkẖ mān apmān.
    pain and pleasure, honor and dishonor -

    ਅਨਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਕੀਓ ਬਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨ
    अनिक प्रकार कीओ बख्यान ॥
    Anik parkār kī▫o bakẖ▫yān.
    these came to be described in various ways.

    ਆਪਨ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ
    आपन खेलु आपि करि देखै ॥
    Āpan kẖel āp kar ḏekẖai.
    He Himself creates and beholds His own drama.

    ਖੇਲੁ ਸੰਕੋਚੈ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੈ ॥੭॥
    खेलु संकोचै तउ नानक एकै ॥७॥
    Kẖel sankocẖai ṯa▫o Nānak ekai. ||7||
    He winds up the drama, and then, O Nanak, He alone remains. ||7||

    ਜਹ ਅਬਿਗਤੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਤਹ ਆਪਿ
    जह अबिगतु भगतु तह आपि ॥
    Jah abigaṯ bẖagaṯ ṯah āp.
    Wherever the Eternal Lord's devotee is, He Himself is there.

    ਜਹ ਪਸਰੈ ਪਾਸਾਰੁ ਸੰਤ ਪਰਤਾਪਿ
    जह पसरै पासारु संत परतापि ॥
    Jah pasrai pāsār sanṯ parṯāp.
    He unfolds the expanse of His creation for the glory of His Saint.

    ਦੁਹੂ ਪਾਖ ਕਾ ਆਪਹਿ ਧਨੀ
    दुहू पाख का आपहि धनी ॥
    Ḏuhū pākẖ kā āpėh ḏẖanī.
    He Himself is the Master of both worlds.

    ਉਨ ਕੀ ਸੋਭਾ ਉਨਹੂ ਬਨੀ
    उन की सोभा उनहू बनी ॥
    Un kī sobẖā unhū banī.
    His Praise is to Himself alone.

    ਆਪਹਿ ਕਉਤਕ ਕਰੈ ਅਨਦ ਚੋਜ
    आपहि कउतक करै अनद चोज ॥
    Āpėh ka▫uṯak karai anaḏ cẖoj.
    He Himself performs and plays His amusements and games.

    ਆਪਹਿ ਰਸ ਭੋਗਨ ਨਿਰਜੋਗ
    आपहि रस भोगन निरजोग ॥
    Āpėh ras bẖogan nirjog.
    He Himself enjoys pleasures, and yet He is unaffected and untouched.

    ਜਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਪਨ ਨਾਇ ਲਾਵੈ
    जिसु भावै तिसु आपन नाइ लावै ॥
    Jis bẖāvai ṯis āpan nā▫e lāvai.
    He attaches whomever He pleases to His Name.

    ਜਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਖੇਲ ਖਿਲਾਵੈ
    जिसु भावै तिसु खेल खिलावै ॥
    Jis bẖāvai ṯis kẖel kẖilāvai.
    He causes whomever He pleases to play in His play.

    ਬੇਸੁਮਾਰ ਅਥਾਹ ਅਗਨਤ ਅਤੋਲੈ
    बेसुमार अथाह अगनत अतोलै ॥
    Besumār athāh agnaṯ aṯolai.
    He is beyond calculation, beyond measure, uncountable and unfathomable.

    ਜਿਉ ਬੁਲਾਵਹੁ ਤਿਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਬੋਲੈ ॥੮॥੨੧॥
    जिउ बुलावहु तिउ नानक दास बोलै ॥८॥२१॥
    Ji▫o bulāvhu ṯi▫o Nānak ḏās bolai. ||8||21||
    As You inspire him to speak, O Lord, so does servant Nanak speak. ||8||21||
     
  15. chazSingh

    chazSingh Belgium
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,596

    If you were alone Harry Ji...and there was no other...no world, no nothing...just you...
    you realized you had the greatest infinite creative power...what may you wish to use the creative power for?

    Remember you are alone...

    you think...wow...i'll design a game system....and then start designing a game...
    you may think...ok..i'll create multiple characters, beings entities, worlds, realms....bla bla bla lol

    But what now...who can live this creation and experience it as if it is real....? whats the point if you're all alone...how will you truely understand your creative power if you can't live it through unlimited viewpoints and unlimited experiences (Duality: hot/cold, good/bad etc )

    So 'somehow', as only you exist... you were able to go into your own video game...and play each character, at the same time...lol.. yeah sure for a while, you knew you were in a Game, you knew the truth...that Harry Ji is the creator behind the Game and the characters don;t really exists.....you understood and had access to this Viewpoint (like from on top of the tall building) ... and Boom...you have SatYug...the characters look after each other because they still see Harry Ji as the 'one' and they understand the truth whilst playing the game..

    move forward...Ego hardens...the Characters have lost all consciousness of Harry Ji (the one, the creator)...and we have Kalyug...
    Harry ji (the one) has gone so deep into the Game, He (all the characters) now believe they are the 'reality'...the Characters are now experiencing complete immersion in the created game.... Harry Ji (the multiple Characters) are questioning his own 'real' existence 'Harry Ji, the ONE' lol...the creator...EGO is the ruler...the director

    So in this condition, we fight each other, we question God, Religion makes us destroy each other as we think our Gods are different, Wars etc etc...

    But Harry Ji (the one) knew this was going to happen...He knew he would by design of the Game, get completely lost in it, at some point...so he devised a method/ character / and entity to be ever present in the Game (Guru)...whereby each of the Characters if they so seek and yearn, can start to unravel the Truth and Harry Ji (the lost character) can once again know he is the 'One'....so that Chaz Ji (the lost Character) can once again dip into the experience of the 'One'....etc etc...so that we know the Truth...

    Then What...if you had access to this experience...would you be asking the questions you asked earlier? There is only the 'One' so who got raped? who did the Rape? who saved the one getting Raped? who reported it on the news? who Sat in the Court? lol..

    Like i said, i'm just skimming the Surface...sometimes i feel close to this Truth, othertimes, the 'Game', Maya...very easily drags me back into questioning everything, chasing after countless desires, greed etc etc..

    I'm not saying the above is True, but it's the feeling i get when i read SGGS Ji, and my current experiences though Simran and life...It's mind blowing stuff, especially when you start to mingle with this truth...nothing ever is the same again..
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    7,967
    ahh i have missed our conversations, but this one is too good for an instant reply, I will ponder it while I install windows
     
  17. Harkiran Kaur

    Harkiran Kaur Canada
    Expand Collapse

    Leader

    Writer SPNer Thinker

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    You and I have always thought alike :)

     
  18. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    134
    Go further. What is the One? It's Truth. What's the Truth? It's the frequency of a balanced gyan that lives to discover while remaining detached from the highs and lows of the discoveries. It's image and form, its origin Is Nothing, its the silence.

    Who was the first knower of this Truth?

    God. Who created the Khel to share this Truth, and the Divine Gyan with another out of Pure Love?

    The first Truth Knower did- God.

    Hence Brahmgyanis and Sants know themselves to be One and the Same for they have realised the Truth and they have become one with it.

    This khel was created by and is powered by God for us. He created it out of Love

    :)
     
  19. Harry Haller

    Harry Haller United Kingdom
    Expand Collapse
    SPNer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    5,139
    Likes Received:
    7,967
    Hmmm If you are suggesting that I would use the power to make a small world and then sit and watch it, I have to confess that I probably would not do that.

    I know what being alone is, I do not need to integrate that philosophy into my thoughts, I am alone, very alone, its actually quite beautiful.

    Why? Why would I do that, nope, that would be the last thing I would do, the truth is, as I said, I am alone, I do not interact, nor speak to anyone, I do not have a mobile phone, a tv, no social accounts, nothing, so, as I sit here this fine thursday morning, my living coming from my online business, with a mound of packing ahead of me, I do wonder, what is entertaining, what is fun, but creating a mini world would not be high on my priority list.

    Although personally, I reject the vision of God being remotely interested in my life, I would assume a 'God' is a 'God' because it knows everything, so I would imagine such a being would already fully understand its creative power without the need to make lego worlds in order to facilitate this.

    Ok, so lets say one of the characters gets free will, let us say I am not Harry the creator, let us say I am Harry, one of the characters, and I have just realised that everything around me is just a game, a play, that every character in this play is just that, an actor, a manikin, empty, and that every amusement, every pleasure is actually irrelevant, what do I do, carry on playing? well of course not, I would cease the game.

    This does not make sense to me, how can 'God' be fooled, how can 'God' go deeply into anything, you make your God sound fallible, I always assumed Gods were perfect.

    The truth is not that hard, seems to me people make it hard because they do not like what the end result is, so, the truth is this is all a game, I concede that, completely, but what follows is, then everything is completely irrelevant, I personally am not driven by a God, I have always been driven by the void, which I guess, is the opposite of God, my experiences have now shown me that if you accept the game and cease playing, the void shrinks, this is good. So if I accept the truth, I have to cease playing the game, cease playing the game and it gets quite peaceful, quite nice.

    You laugh, but on the odd occasions I do watch the news, maybe at my parents, I see misery, tears, pain, suffering, it is not funny to those still in the game, not funny at all, on the one hand, this mentality should offer you freedom from this, but on the other hand, you still live, you still play the game, why? now you know its a game, why are you playing it? You talk of rape, who got raped, who sat in the court, hahaha, yeah its all a game, but it does not stop you living and playing your own game within the game you know is a game. Do I want for anything, nope, do I get upset by people, nope, because no people exist in my life to upset me, so I find it hard to understand, seems to me your only embracing half the concept, the half that suits an agenda,
    I still don't understand, we both know this is a game, so what is there to drag you back in again? my question still stands, and as you dart in and out of the game, I am not sure you are able to answer, because if you do dart in and out, do you really then believed that this is a game? surely if you really believed, like I do, you would not dart in and out, you would tape newspapers to your windows, avoid contact with all society, (as they are all characters anyway), and focus on your own development outside of the game.

    One thing I have realised, given the lack of interaction, is that it would appear that most people do whatever it is they do for other people, no one drives a car, buys a house, for themselves, they do it for the validation and perceived respect of others, I still drive a 20 year old range rover, I could get a new one, well if I could afford one, but the entire concept is mind numbingly dull, as there is no one to congratulate me, no one for me to make jealous, it is pointless, I often wondered how people would live on a desert island, would they preen themselves, and cover themselves in the same finery if no one could see, probably not, so most of what you do, is for others, for society, for your wife, your parents, your children, for izzat,

    the truth is not that startling, yes, life is all a big game with one character playing all the roles, so knowing this, do you take the red pill or the blue pill, one frees you from everything, but life is simple and solitary, the other immerses you deep into a complicated and emotion filled world, to take neither is to sit on the fence and dip your toe into one or the other as you wish.

    So my question to all those that know the existence of the game, is what now, how do you play this, what do you do now?. The credibility of any answer depends on how much of the game you still play whilst you denounce the game, or are you denouncing the game? If your living life still involves the game, yet, you maintain that this is a game, then that sounds quite strange to me. Is it that hard to leave the game?
     
    #18 Harry Haller, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  20. Sikhilove

    Sikhilove Qatar
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    134
    Harry I liked the last bit you wrote.

    The game is God, the silence is God.

    Harry- the game is a projection of the silence. It's One n the same. No need for matrix pills.

    Simply remember its all the same, its all One. Nirboah and Nirvair
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. chazSingh

    chazSingh Belgium
    Expand Collapse
    Writer SPNer

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,596
    Whilst i agree with most of what you say, i have some reservation in part of it

    you're implying that there is not only 'one God' that we all have the capacity to become like 'God' through realization via this Khel that the 'First Knower' created...

    Therefore once we get to the level of 'God' then there still remains multiplicity...i.e. multiple knowers, multiple Gods in esense

    but where does that leave various passages in Gurbani stating that there is no other?
     
Since you're here... we have a small favor to ask...     Become a Supporter      ::     Make a Contribution     


Share This Page