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Islam Dawah Man And Basics Of Sikhi [Video]

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
Re: Dawah man and basics of sikhi .

harmanpreet singh ji

At one time the code could be rewritten to embed these videos. YouTube then changed the embed code and it worked in our threads for several weeks. Last I checked there is no embedding whatsoever. This is not because of YouTube but rather v-bulletin software. It is irritating. Sorry!
 
Jul 18, 2007
147
455
London
Re: Dawah man and basics of sikhi .

This video has been doing the rounds on social media, I watched more than half of it last week. From what I saw, the Muslim chap started off the debate with the intent that it was just to learn more about Sikhi. But in reality it turned into an attempt to undermine the faith and try to show the "superiority of Islam", especially as he comes across as being someone who is clued up, yet still threw in the "Guru Nanak was a muslim?" question.

On the whole the Singh made very valid points which is great as usually in these sort of debates people um and arh because they are not used to a spontaneous debate. But unfortunately like the masses still promotes the miracles and emphasis on the dasam dwar theory which I think Sikhi doesn't really need as Gurbani speaks for itself - changes your thoughts, at the grass root level. At parts just seemed to be a marketing stand off, my faith is better than yours.

Unfortunately the Muslim, like someone else put it on a comment on FB seemed to be more worried about ensuring we understood the "calculated" form of Islam with counting rhetorical devices to prove the Quran is from God direct :noticekudi: and therefore better than any spiritual writing written to man?!?

All in all i'm sure there are many from both sides who don't agree with the way both faiths are represented in the video, as it is subjective to the experience/understanding of the faith by both individuals and the way they can articulate in the debate. Also, those who will no doubt use it as a slurring campaign against each other :kaurfacepalm:
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
Re: Dawah man and basics of sikhi .

This video has been doing the rounds on social media, I watched more than half of it last week. From what I saw, the Muslim chap started off the debate with the intent that it was just to learn more about Sikhi. But in reality it turned into an attempt to undermine the faith and try to show the "superiority of Islam", especially as he comes across as being someone who is clued up, yet still threw in the "Guru Nanak was a muslim?" question.

SaintSoldier1699 ji


You have described in a nutshell the basic strategy of a dawah. It begins with dishonest intentions, cloaked as a sincere interest in another person's religious beliefs. Then it continues down another path entirely with the goal of proving the superiority of Islam quickly enough. I have seen it scores of times here and the methods never vary. All that glisters is not gold, said Shakespeare. The seemingly civil and sincere beginning is a debating strategy to throw people off balance. Once off-balance it is harder to get back on a level ground to defend one's own beliefs.

And BTW - why have to defend your beliefs? Why have to defend your beliefs to a total stranger? Why begin a discussion, the goal of which is to put that person on the defensive? It is predatory.
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
414
Dawah man ends the talk with

This is why we're out here, because I know the reality and I don't mean disrespect but come on you already know what my beliefs are, don't you? That if you're not a Muslim after you heard the message of Islam, you're going to burn in the hellfire, not you in particular but anyone. And sir that's why we're here, because we care..."

m unable to understand how Muslims worship such God/Allah who put someone to fire just for being non muslim .

Such Allah seems very Satanic to me .
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
It is an ego trip that has been on for centuries and picks up steam every century or so.
 

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)
SPNer
Jun 17, 2004
14,500
19,179
It is unfortunate but not surprising that the Sikh side of the debate was weak. Gurbani is clear that the miracle is the Shabad and the Shabad is the miracle. Translated into everyday, here and now, life-as-it-is-lived language, that means that the Shabad gives us an ethic for connecting with 'god' and our fellow human beings that transcends the boundaries of 'religion.'

Religion is a creation of the human mind, making it a manmatt enterprise. It will only be as helpful and as uplifting as the people who practice it. We have centuries of history to show that religion has been used as a tool to justify violence and oppression, in the name of 'god' and 'true religion.' Even on the streets of urban England Islam is being used to shanghai the minds of young Sikhs.

Yet Sikhi is rarely used to justify violence, and has never been used to justify oppression, in the name of the ShabadGuru. The miracle of the shabad! We let our youth down on this point because the "basics of Sikhi" as taught at home, in sangat and on the Internet too often are not the basics. Every time we forget why Singhs were willing to die to regain the keys of Darbar Sahib, we forget the miracle and are focused on religion.
 
Jul 18, 2007
147
455
London
Veer Harmanpreet Ji,

I didn't think he was the type to do as you said so I checked on google he tweeted his youtube account has been suspended for two weeks due to "trolls" lol.

If you go out to do this sort of thing, you have already made a strong enough shield to ignore those who believe different to you and carry on regardless just as he was in his debate.

Lesson: I personally don't think we should gloat that someone got "beat" in a debate as there are no winners really. Just nurtured/sore ego's.
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
414
thanks Saint ji for lovely message !

i fully agree with you there is nothing like beating/losing in such debates thats why i kept the title of this thread as "Dawah Man and Basics of Sikhi" instead of something like "Sikh beat Dawah man".

but i fully enjoyed how Mr Singh handled this Dawah professional ,these Dawah ppl are trained to degrade other faiths , sometimes our ppl are caught/trapped in such stuff .


a nice comment from there

<header class="lea">Nusrat5791

</header>

beware of any religion that claims itself to be the ONLY way to the divine.
there must be a reason as to why south asia gave birth to three major faiths that believe all ways, as long as rooted in goodness towards mankind, lead to the one divine; and why the middle east gave rise to three major faiths, each of which demands absolute adherence to their faith as a way for salvation.
wonder what it is? anybody?

as an ex-muslim,of south asian extraction, living in the west, i feel freer to live as an agnostic when surrounded by my sikh, hindu and buddhist friends than when in the company of my muslim relations and friends

 

choochoochan

SPNer
Nov 4, 2013
75
30
This is just a conversation between two individuals on their faiths. Just take it as an exercise of comparative religion. Nothing else. Nothing more.

I couldn't bear to hear more than 15 mins of this. I fast forwarded and heard the Sardarji talking about the miracle of how the japji kept flowing through even tho the guru was chopped in two pieces. Isn't that like belief in a miracle? I thought that was not something preached in Sikhism. Hmm.

Anyway, both of them are equally painful to listen to. Both retreat into defensive modes at so many points. I think it'd be better to read the stories of the Guru Nanak having a discourse with Muslims.
 
Nov 14, 2008
283
414
. I fast forwarded and heard the Sardarji talking about the miracle of how the japji kept flowing through even tho the guru was chopped in two pieces. Isn't that like belief in a miracle? I thought that was not something preached in Sikhism. Hmm.
.
Firstly nowhere in video Sikh said "japji kept flowing through even tho the guru was chopped in two pieces" can you tell me the time ? .

.as far i noticed in vid he meant "Bani of Guru was more blissful to bhai Mati dass ji than the pain of Saw that was cutting him in two pieces .

and yes for Sikhs Shaheedi of Bhai Mati Dass ji is a Miracle ,Miracle of highest order .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCuzHle2wM

Anyway, both of them are equally painful to listen to
i can understand your pain,.
 
Last edited:
Sep 19, 2013
132
286
28
Nottingham
This is just a conversation between two individuals on their faiths. Just take it as an exercise of comparative religion. Nothing else. Nothing more.

I couldn't bear to hear more than 15 mins of this. I fast forwarded and heard the Sardarji talking about the miracle of how the japji kept flowing through even tho the guru was chopped in two pieces. Isn't that like belief in a miracle? I thought that was not something preached in Sikhism. Hmm.

Anyway, both of them are equally painful to listen to. Both retreat into defensive modes at so many points. I think it'd be better to read the stories of the Guru Nanak having a discourse with Muslims.
I think Jagraj's point was that miracles don't matter, or at least don't prove which faith is the 'right' one. 'Dawahman' was trying to prove that the Qur'an is legitimate because it is supposedly so poetic that it can't possibly have been written by human hands and is therefore a divine miracle. Jagraj tried to counter this by describing some miracles performed by Sikhs.
 

choochoochan

SPNer
Nov 4, 2013
75
30
I think Jagraj's point was that miracles don't matter, or at least don't prove which faith is the 'right' one. 'Dawahman' was trying to prove that the Qur'an is legitimate because it is supposedly so poetic that it can't possibly have been written by human hands and is therefore a divine miracle. Jagraj tried to counter this by describing some miracles performed by Sikhs.
Respectfully, if miracles do not matter, there would be no need to mention them. Sardarji, i thought, countered the miracle of the Quran with the SGGS. I was under the impression that the SGGS in Sikhism is the miracle.
 

choochoochan

SPNer
Nov 4, 2013
75
30
Firstly nowhere in video Sikh said "japji kept flowing through even tho the guru was chopped in two pieces" can you tell me the time ? .

.as far i noticed in vid he meant "Bani of Guru was more blissful to bhai Mati dass ji than the pain of Saw that was cutting him in two pieces .

and yes for Sikhs Shaheedi of Bhai Mati Dass ji is a Miracle ,Miracle of highest order .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQCuzHle2wM

i can understand your pain,.
The Sikh did say that and i'm not going to subject myself to torture by attempting to watch that in order to pinpoint the exact moment he made a mention of that. You may rewatch if you want. I'd rather waste my time on youtube by watching funny cat videos.


I proclaim the cuteness and nonchalant attitude of cats to be miracles of the highest order!
 

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