Dasam Granth And Its History

[Astroboy]

The Dasam Granth consists of 1428 pages. According to all available evidence, it was compiled by Bhai Mani Singh, the devout and learned Sikh custodian of the Golden Temple (who later became a martyr) 26 years after the death of Guru Gobind Singh, at Damdama. But, some historians assert that it was not the adi Granth, but his own Book that the Guru dictated to Bhai Mani Singh. However, much of its secular portion is the subject of great controversy even amongst the Sikhs who ascribe its authorship not to the Guru but to some of his 52 poets who lived at his court.
The Contents of this Granth, which is mostly in Braj Bhasha, are (1) Jap, or meditations. (2) Akal Ustati, or the praises of God and the denunciation of ritual, superstition and cant, (3) Chandi Charitra, I and II, or the life of Chandi, the goddess of war, (in Braj) (4) Var, or ballad of Durga, the exploits of the goddess of war (in Punjabi), (5) Gyan Prabodh, or the sayings of Wisdom, which also include some tales from Mahabharta, (6) Chaubis Avtar, or the life-stories of the incarnations of Vishnu, according to the Hindus, and Brahrnavatar and Rudravtdr, (7) Shabd Hazare, or devotional hymns, (8) Thirty-three Swayyas, or the praises of the one immortal, unknowable God of wonder and grace, (9) Khalsa Mahima. or words
in praise of the Khalsa, (10) Shastra Nam-Mala; verses in praise of many arms, (11) Charitro pkhyan or 404 tales of the wiles of women, (12) Zafar Namah (in Persian), or letter of victory, addressed to Aurangzeb, (13) Hikayats, or legends and tales, also in Persian, including some stories on the lines of Charitro pakhyan.

(Source: dasam granth)​

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jaap is the Bani uttered by Guru Gobind Singh ji, the Tenth Guru, the Tenth Nanak. It is one of the Five Banis recited by the Panj Pyare while preparing Amrit on the occasion of Amrit Sanchaar (initiation), a ceremony held to admit initiates into the Khalsa Brotherhood. Jaap Sahib is Guru Gobind Singh’s tribute to 'TRUTH god' , wherein TRUTH god's magnanimity, implied in Japji Sahib and Satgur Granth Sahib, has been composed in ONE. It is the second Bani in the daily morning prayers of a Sikh.

add Chaupai Sahib and Tva Prassad Sawaiye to that... that's right, HALF our nitnem banis come from a supposedly disputed text.

i don't know what banis these anti-dasam granth people recite.

If there is a controversy about Dasam Granth, it is clear that it is not an approved Bani.Is it correct? Kindly guide.

interestingly, there was no controversy until nearly the 20th century. it has been suggested that agents of the british started the doubt about Sri Dasam Granth in order to weaken the Sikh Panth. in the past, SGGS was considered our spiritual guide, while SDGS was considered a temporal guide, and the key to our military strength. notice that Sikhs who still practice the martial arts (damdami taksal, nihangs, AKJ) all believe in it. so striking at the Dasam Granth strikes at our martial ability, making us more vulnerable to the british.

according to SGPC it is gurbani and the 3 nitnem banis we read from it are not only approved but required.

people who have openly opposed it (like Kala Afghana) have been excommunicated by Akal Takht.

now i don't know about you, but i'd rather listen to the scholars of the panth (damdami taksal) than an excommunicated heretic.

 

[International Akaali]

add Chaupai Sahib and Tva Prassad Sawaiye to that... that's right, HALF our nitnem banis come from a supposedly disputed text.

i don't know what banis these anti-dasam granth people recite.

Jaap Sahib, Chaupai, and tavprasaad swaiyee can not be considered gurbani. Guru sahib has not given these banis gurgaddi. Rather they are writings which are accepted by the panth and considered authentic. If these writings are to be considered gurbani they were to be included in guru granth sahib ji. Guru sahib did not, The true guru is guru granth sahib ji.

Every Sikh should abide by Panthic maryada which is in the form of sri akal takht reyat maryada until if any further changes occur.


And this is to shereb:

It does matter who came first as per dasam granth! Dasam granth mentions it so why shouldn't it matter to us? If you care to read bachitaar natak please do so and look for yourself. History is history believe it or not.

Guru nanak came 1st, guru angad came 2nd etc... this does matter to us because of the fact that gurbani mentions of which guru wrote the bani whem for ex: M:5 etc. So should we even bother to learn what guru is 1st 2nd 3rd 4th... 10th? We do and we should do so for this as well as claimed by yoursellf that my guru wrote this autobiography and granth.

If you go through shri guru granth sahib ji it gives various examples of some jung deeya varran which were being circulated around the times of the gurus between people. Guru sahib used these examples as metaphor to convey his messege to the sikhs of those times. If we dont aquire that history we as sikhs right now won't be able to understand that bani so history is very important in some area of gurbani.

Fateh

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jaap Sahib, Chaupai, and tavprasaad swaiyee can not be considered gurbani. Guru sahib has not given these banis gurgaddi. Rather they are writings which are accepted by the panth and considered authentic. If these writings are to be considered gurbani they were to be included in guru granth sahib ji. Guru sahib did not, The true guru is guru granth sahib ji.

Every Sikh should abide by Panthic maryada which is in the form of sri akal takht reyat maryada until if any further changes occur.

in one sentence you tell me the writings of the 10th guru are not gurbani, in the next you tell me to follow akal takht.

but akal takht says Jaap sahib is gurbani.

so which is it?

 

[BhagatSingh]

add Chaupai Sahib and Tva Prassad Sawaiye to that... that's right, HALF our nitnem banis come from a supposedly disputed text.

i don't know what banis these anti-dasam granth people recite.



interestingly, there was no controversy until nearly the 20th century. it has been suggested that agents of the british started the doubt about Sri Dasam Granth in order to weaken the Sikh Panth. in the past, SGGS was considered our spiritual guide, while SDGS was considered a temporal guide, and the key to our military strength. notice that Sikhs who still practice the martial arts (damdami taksal, nihangs, AKJ) all believe in it. so striking at the Dasam Granth strikes at our martial ability, making us more vulnerable to the british.

according to SGPC it is gurbani and the 3 nitnem banis we read from it are not only approved but required.

people who have openly opposed it (like Kala Afghana) have been excommunicated by Akal Takht.

now i don't know about you, but i'd rather listen to the scholars of the panth (damdami taksal) than an excommunicated heretic.

lol, there are sources that claim, that Dasam Granh appeared only after 18th century. In fact, there is alot of evidence that does not support the so called Dasam Granth.

Anti Dasam Granth people do not recite banis as reciting bani is pointless, rather these (should) be reading straight from Guru Granth Sahib, (should) try to understand it and (should) be living the life of a Gursikh.

There are parts of Dasam Granth that can be made into an adult video. The language used is very common, so when you read it, it sounds fine if you dont understand BUT if you understand it, you can't help but have a laugh at that piece of trash and wonder why people say Guru Gobind Singh would write such a thing!\

Ill reply to the rest of your post when I get time...

 

[International Akaali]

in one sentence you tell me the writings of the 10th guru are not gurbani, in the next you tell me to follow akal takht.

but akal takht says Jaap sahib is gurbani.

so which is it?

Jasleen kaur i think you fail to understand as to what gurbani is. Is Jaap sahib is considered gurbani then it would be included in guru granth sahib ji. As Guru granth sahib ji is the only guru. Jaap sahib is a writing just like how zafarnama is. Its a piece of literature. It can never be considered gurbani. Gurbani is only that which is included in guru granth sahib ji.

ek bani ek gur eko shabad veechar

Here it is clear that guru sahib is only here in within in shri guru granth sahib ji. Can you say that guru sahib is contradicting himself. Guru sahib can never do such a thing therefore the shabad is only guru granth sahib ji. With this in mind please read the following shabad:

Bani Guru guru hai bani vich bani amrit sarai.

There is only ek bani. Ek Gur. Ek shabad veechar. Therefore there is only one gurbani which is shri guru granth sahib. Thus the writings of dasam granth can never be accepted as gurbani rather it can as literature for w.e the panth has said is authentic. jaap sahib is a piece of literature and anti-panthic forces mixed it in with the so called writings called "charitropakiyan" and others.

I will only take word for what is in roop of shabad guru, shri guru granth sahib ji if i am doing something in doing that i will continue to give mahan satkaar. Gurus bachan are posted above please follow your life according to the guru

Fateh

 

[BhagatSingh]

Sikh80 ji

You can tell from the thread that Dasam Granth is controversial.

Dasam Granth has stirred controversy at least twice in the last century. And now again in this century.

Hard lines are drawn. Reputations have been ruined. A central dilemma -- if the Dasam Granth is discredited entirely, then there is a problem. Because, among other concerns, the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh includes Jaap Sahib. This is not a small problem. Important Sikh traditions, beliefs and worship are invested in this Bani.

Jaap is the Bani uttered by Guru Gobind Singh ji, the Tenth Guru, the Tenth Nanak. It is one of the Five Banis recited by the Panj Pyare while preparing Amrit on the occasion of Amrit Sanchaar (initiation), a ceremony held to admit initiates into the Khalsa Brotherhood. Jaap Sahib is Guru Gobind Singh’s tribute to 'TRUTH god' , wherein TRUTH god's magnanimity, implied in Japji Sahib and Satgur Granth Sahib, has been composed in ONE. It is the second Bani in the daily morning prayers of a Sikh.

from Sikiwiki

If the Dasam Granth is discredited, then what is the outcome for Jaap and other parts of the Granth?

You can read the articles copied in this thread for yourself to see how complicated the controversy is. There are a few parts of the Granth that most scholars would agree are not authentic. Under review at this time are some other sections.

I would not ask if the Bani is "approved." You can still find Dasam Granth on all of the major Gurbani web sites. It is not a matter of approved or not approved. The debate is about the historical authenticity of the texts. Detachment should not abandon us when discussing this controversy in particular.

No one is sure that Jaap Sahib was "uttered" by Guru Gobind Singh. in fact historians think it originated in the 18th century and wiki is not a good source for this, as I could go there right now and change what they have said.

 

[Astroboy]

International Akali Ji,

"Satguru Bina Hor Kachi Hai Bani"

Is Jaap Sahib - Kachi Bani ?

 

[Archived_Member1]

l
Anti Dasam Granth people do not recite banis as reciting bani is pointless,

so you're saying anti dasam granth people do not take amrit and do not care for the authority of akal takht?

good to know.

No one is sure that Jaap Sahib was "uttered" by Guru Gobind Singh. in fact historians think it originated in the 18th century and wiki is not a good source for this, as I could go there right now and change what they have said.

you keep saying this, but you don't show sources for your statements.

please let me know which historians say Jaap sahib is not the words of the 10th guru.

 

[BhagatSingh]

interestingly, there was no controversy until nearly the 20th century. it has been suggested that agents of the british started the doubt about Sri Dasam Granth in order to weaken the Sikh Panth. in the past, SGGS was considered our spiritual guide, while SDGS was considered a temporal guide, and the key to our military strength. notice that Sikhs who still practice the martial arts (damdami taksal, nihangs, AKJ) all believe in it. so striking at the Dasam Granth strikes at our martial ability, making us more vulnerable to the british.

How does striking at the So called dasam granth strike at our martial ability??? how does reading make one a better warrior?? how does it make us more vulnerable to the british?? and why would we care??

well my dad doesn't practice martial arts at all and he believes in it. Although, he would never read it to my mom and sisters.


:whisling: I don't know why... maybe...its because it's got porn in it! e.g. the raja in one of the stories takes out his "ling" and "bangs" the rani's "dhol"! haha! :rofl!!:that part always makes me laugh because of the language used.
In another one, this raja has two ranis, they dont get along. One rani has a child, the other one gets angry etc. She makes up a plan and shoves a "gophru", which is some kind of jewelry, up the child's bum. The rani who gave birth to the child dies, which makes the other rani (who shoved that thing up his ...) feels sorry, pulls out the gophru and starts taking care of the child.
Both of these stories are mentioned in this video:So called Dasam Granth or {censored} Kavita
the guy argues that why would Guru Gobind write such a thing and even if he did what does this teach us??

Does this teach to shove things up people's bum? OR that we shouldn't do that because it might kill their mothers?? OR that we should bang dhol with ling?? pardon my language but what the ****?

dasam granth cannot be written by Guru Gobind Singh JI. Stop calling him the writer of this nonsensical piece of trash.
i agree there are some parts that do not go against Sikh philosophy, but even then most of it is agasint Sikhi!! On top of all this there is NO historical evidence that is written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Any historical evidence supporting this Granth can be questioned and easily ripped apart.
Dasam Granth

 

[Archived_Member1]

Jasleen kaur i think you fail to understand as to what gurbani is. Is Jaap sahib is considered gurbani then it would be included in guru granth sahib ji. As Guru granth sahib ji is the only guru. Jaap sahib is a writing just like how zafarnama is. Its a piece of literature. It can never be considered gurbani. Gurbani is only that which is included in guru granth sahib ji.

ek bani ek gur eko shabad veechar

Here it is clear that guru sahib is only here in within in shri guru granth sahib ji. Can you say that guru sahib is contradicting himself. Guru sahib can never do such a thing therefore the shabad is only guru granth sahib ji. With this in mind please read the following shabad:

Bani Guru guru hai bani vich bani amrit sarai.

There is only ek bani. Ek Gur. Ek shabad veechar. Therefore there is only one gurbani which is shri guru granth sahib. Thus the writings of dasam granth can never be accepted as gurbani rather it can as literature for w.e the panth has said is authentic. jaap sahib is a piece of literature and anti-panthic forces mixed it in with the so called writings called "charitropakiyan" and others.

I will only take word for what is in roop of shabad guru, shri guru granth sahib ji if i am doing something in doing that i will continue to give mahan satkaar. Gurus bachan are posted above please follow your life according to the guru

Fateh

um, i'm pretty sure that "gurbani" means "word of Guru". that would be the word of ANY of the gurus. there were 10 living Gurus before the Guru Granth Sahib. 10 forms of Nanak. are you saying that their words became irrelevant when they passed on the gurgaddi? because that's what it sounds like.

i don't think i can find any shabads which support the theory that gurbani is only contained in SGGS. gurbani is only the word of the guru. but there's no restriction on WHICH guru.

as for you people's repeated purposeful misinterpretation of dasam granth, i'll just say, please research and understand the concepts of metaphor, analogy, and parable.

 

[BhagatSingh]

um, i'm pretty sure that "gurbani" means "word of Guru". that would be the word of ANY of the gurus. there were 10 living Gurus before the Guru Granth Sahib. 10 forms of Nanak. are you saying that their words became irrelevant when they passed on the gurgaddi? because that's what it sounds like.

i don't think i can find any shabads which support the theory that gurbani is only contained in SGGS. gurbani is only the word of the guru. but there's no restriction on WHICH guru.

as for you people's repeated purposeful misinterpretation of dasam granth, i'll just say, please research and understand the concepts of metaphor, analogy, and parable.

Singhni Ji watch the videos I provided, they weren't there to make my post look pretty.

Bani is something that comes out of a Guru's mouth. But was Guru Gobind Singh's character so low that he put stuff that had absolutely NO MEANING to it, in this granth?!? Not only that, he uses metaphors to represent porn. Like the raja banging the rani's drum with his ling. this is a metaphor for sexual intercourse. In the context it is present in it was pointless to read this story. It only made me wonder," Now why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji' write that?? hmm...."

By the way ling means phalus, which is an erected *****.
LOL SPN puts * where I wrote the name of the male reproductive organ. It's smart!

 

[Archived_Member1]

How does striking at the So called dasam granth strike at our martial ability??? how does reading make one a better warrior?? how does it make us more vulnerable to the british?? and why would we care??

well my dad doesn't practice martial arts at all and he believes in it. Although, he would never read it to my mom and sisters.


:whisling: I don't know why... maybe...its because it's got porn in it! e.g. the raja in one of the stories takes out his "ling" and "bangs" the rani's "dhol"! haha! :rofl!!:that part always makes me laugh because of the language used.
In another one, this raja has two ranis, they dont get along. One rani has a child, the other one gets angry etc. She makes up a plan and shoves a "gophru", which is some kind of jewelry, up the child's bum. The rani who gave birth to the child dies, which makes the other rani (who shoved that thing up his ...) feels sorry, pulls out the gophru and starts taking care of the child.
Both of these stories are mentioned in this video:So called Dasam Granth or {censored} Kavita
the guy argues that why would Guru Gobind write such a thing and even if he did what does this teach us??

Does this teach to shove things up people's bum? OR that we shouldn't do that because it might kill their mothers?? OR that we should bang dhol with ling?? pardon my language but what the ****?

dasam granth cannot be written by Guru Gobind Singh JI. Stop calling him the writer of this nonsensical piece of trash.
i agree there are some parts that do not go against Sikh philosophy, but even then most of it is agasint Sikhi!! On top of all this there is NO historical evidence that is written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Any historical evidence supporting this Granth can be questioned and easily ripped apart.
Dasam Granth

show me this historical evidence. don't keep saying "guru couldn't write this". do you pretend to understand guru's thought process? do you know what a metaphor is? a parable? an analogy? do you understand that telling cautionary tales in the vernacular of the time probably served a purpose? just because you're depraved and imagine pornography when you read it doesn't mean Guru thought like you!

re: martial side of dasam granth:

where do you think khanda and kirpan came from? have you ever read zafar nama or do you only focus on the sections which arouse you sexually? do you know anything about the concept of Khalsa?

look, if you don't want to recite the proscribed nitnem banis or take the amrit as given by the 10th guru, don't. but don't try to push your anti-panthic propaganda on those of us who follow the rulings akal takht as our temporal authority.

Singhni Ji watch the videos I provided, they weren't there to make my post look pretty.

Bani is something that comes out of a Guru's mouth. But was Guru Gobind Singh's character so low that he put stuff that had absolutely NO MEANING to it, in this granth?!? Not only that, he uses metaphors to represent porn. Like the raja banging the rani's drum with his ling. this is a metaphor for sexual intercourse. In the context it is present in it was pointless to read this story. It only made me wonder," Now why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji' write that?? hmm...."

By the way ling means phalus, which is an erected *****.

so if you don't understand something, it has no meaning? i suppose you know better than guru, better than the pooran gursikhs who wrote our rehetnama? you know better than akal takht? you know better than the majority of the panth?

got any evidence in english? sorry, your punjabi videos aren't helping me.

 

[kds1980]

lol, there are sources that claim, that Dasam Granh appeared only after 18th century. In fact, there is alot of evidence that does not support the so called Dasam Granth.

Anti Dasam Granth people do not recite banis as reciting bani is pointless, rather these (should) be reading straight from Guru Granth Sahib, (should) try to understand it and (should) be living the life of a Gursikh.

There are parts of Dasam Granth that can be made into an adult video. The language used is very common, so when you read it, it sounds fine if you dont understand BUT if you understand it, you can't help but have a laugh at that piece of trash and wonder why people say Guru Gobind Singh would write such a thing!\

Ill reply to the rest of your post when I get time...

I think there are plenty of anti dasam granth sikhs who beleive that jaap saahib,saawaiye
and other non controversial material is writing of guru gobind singh ji

 

[Archived_Member1]

but feel free to browse some videos here:

Sri Dasam Granth of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Videos santsipahi.org

which may explain the parts you do not understand. i assume you don't want to read any research but would rather watch videos?

 

[Astroboy]

YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Dr Harbhajan Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Swami Brahmdev
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Dr Jodh Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Prof Anurag Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Giani Gurmit Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Prof Devinder Singh

 

[Archived_Member1]

YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Dr Harbhajan Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Swami Brahmdev
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Dr Jodh Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Prof Anurag Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Giani Gurmit Singh
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Gurcharanjit Singh Lamba
YouTube - Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Seminar - Prof Devinder Singh

i find it interesting that the people who support dasam granth are all professors of history or religious studies, while the main opposition is tankhaiya and is afraid to even come before akal takht and explain himself.

 

[BhagatSingh]

got any evidence in english? sorry, your punjabi videos aren't helping me.

ok then there's no point of me arguing with you since I cannot present the evidence.
but I translated two of the stories already for you from the video ...{censored} Kavita one.
the other video is an interview of a person who had alot of interest in Dasam granth because it was said to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, then etc etc. i might translate that interview sometime and put it up in a new thread.

ok videos aside...

so if you don't understand something, it has no meaning? i suppose you know better than guru, better than the pooran gursikhs who wrote our rehetnama? you know better than akal takht? you know better than the majority of the panth?

You tell me why a sexually arousing(I didnt think it was but you may have) (like you suggest) story written absolutely in the middle of more of these kind of stories, with no moral message, would be added to this granth. I personally dont mind the stories, what I am getting at is they have no meaning in the context they are in!!
And is this appropriate for younger audiences?? i thought Gurbani was sarabh sanjhi(for all).

where do you think khanda and kirpan came from? have you ever read zafar nama or do you only focus on the sections which arouse you sexually? do you know anything about the concept of Khalsa?

look, if you don't want to recite the proscribed nitnem banis or take the amrit as given by the 10th guru, don't. but don't try to push your anti-panthic propaganda on those of us who follow the rulings akal takht as our temporal authority.

Khanda and Kirpan were present before Guru Gobind Singh.
Dont push it, now you will say Guru Gobind Singh worshipped Chandi! NONSENSE!

10th Master and Amrit have nothing to do with that trash! Do YOU know anything about the concept of Khalsa??

look, if you want to recite the poetry in dasam granth along with the Gurbani from SGGS and want to think that dasam granth has anything to do with Guru Gobind Singh, FINE! But don't try to push YOUR anti-SGGS propaganda on those of us who try to follow SGGS and accept it as our GURU.

i find it interesting that the people who support dasam granth are all professors of history or religious studies, while the main opposition is tankhaiya and is afraid to even come before akal takht and explain himself.

OBVIOUSLY! they don't want to get slaughtered! They would rather fight back from a safe distance. You don't know how bad the state of punjab is do u??

 

[Archived_Member1]

You tell me why a sexually arousing(I didnt think it was but you may have) (like you suggest)


Dont push it, now you will say Guru Gobind Singh worshipped Chandi! NONSENSE!


But don't try to push YOUR anti-SGGS propaganda on those of us who try to follow SGGS as our guide.

look, i don't want to argue with you as it's pointless, but i will not let you continually twist my words and make false accusations against me.

YOU said it was porn, i was simply repeating YOUR statement.

i NEVER said anything about Guru sahib worshiping anyone except akal purakh.

i NEVER said a SINGLE WORD against SGGS, so stop with your lies.

fateh!

 

[BhagatSingh]

but feel free to browse some videos here:

Sri Dasam Granth of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Videos santsipahi.org

which may explain the parts you do not understand. i assume you don't want to read any research but would rather watch videos?

Did I say I didn't understand any part?
I never was much of a reader but when it comes to Sikhism I can't resist but to read more and more!