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Creator /God ਦਾਤਾ/ਰੱਬ In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Is Masculine Or Feminine And What Is The Significa

Tejwant Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

One question comes to mind about your understanding of the literal translation of the following pauri to be true. It seems you agree with it and have the same thought process regarding this.

What happens with those who are mute?


How would you translate Naam in this pauri from Jap ji?
ਇਕ ਦੂ ਜੀਭੌ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਲਖ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਲਖ ਵੀਸ ॥
इक दू जीभौ लख होहि लख होवहि लख वीस ॥
Ik ḏū jībẖou lakẖ hohi lakẖ hovėh lakẖ vīs.
If I had 100,000 tongues, and these were then multiplied twenty times more, with each tongue,

ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ॥
लखु लखु गेड़ा आखीअहि एकु नामु जगदीस ॥
Lakẖ lakẖ geṛā ākẖī▫ahi ek nām jagḏīs.
I would repeat, hundreds of thousands of times, the Name of the One, the Lord of the Universe.

ਏਤੁ ਰਾਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਵੜੀਆ ਚੜੀਐ ਹੋਇ ਇਕੀਸ ॥
एतु राहि पति पवड़ीआ चड़ीऐ होइ इकीस ॥
Ėṯ rāhi paṯ pavṛī▫ā cẖaṛī▫ai ho▫e ikīs.
Along this path to our Husband Lord, we climb the steps of the ladder, and come to merge with Him.

ਸੁਣਿ ਗਲਾ ਆਕਾਸ ਕੀ ਕੀਟਾ ਆਈ ਰੀਸ ॥
सुणि गला आकास की कीटा आई रीस ॥
Suṇ galā ākās kī kītā ā▫ī rīs.
Hearing of the etheric realms, even worms long to come back home.

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਕੂੜੀ ਕੂੜੈ ਠੀਸ ॥੩੨॥
नानक नदरी पाईऐ कूड़ी कूड़ै ठीस ॥३२॥
Nānak naḏrī pā▫ī▫ai kūṛī kūrhai ṯẖīs. ||32||
O Guru Nanak, by His Grace He is obtained. False are the boastings of the false. ||32||

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Ambarsaria

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A feeble attempt at translating the pauri below and all errors are mine and I stand corrected,

ਇਕ ਦੂ ਜੀਭੌ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਲਖ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਲਖ ਵੀਸ

इक दू जीभौ लख होहि लख होवहि लख वीस ॥
Ik ḏū jībẖou lakẖ hohi lakẖ hovėh lakẖ vīs.
If I had 100,000 tongues, and these were then multiplied twenty times more, with each tongue,
ਮੇਰੀ ਇਕ ਜ਼ਬਾਨ ਤੋਂ ਇਕ ਲੱਖ ਜ਼ਬਾਨਾਂ ਹੋ ਜਾਣ ਅਤੇ ਇਕ ਲੱਖ ਵੀਹੇ ਲਖ ਹੋ ਵੰਞਣ।
ਇਕੁ ਦੂ = ਇੱਕ ਤੋਂ। ਇਕ ਦੂ ਜੀਭੌ = ਇਕ ਜੀਭ ਤੋਂ। ਹੋਹਿ = ਹੋ ਜਾਣ। ਲਖ = ਲੱਖ (ਜੀਭਾਂ)। ਲਖ ਹੋਵਹਿ = ਲੱਖ ਜੀਭਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਹੋ ਜਾਣ। ਲਖ ਵੀਸ = ਵੀਹ ਲੱਖ।

ਜੇ ਇੱਕ ਜੀਭ ਤੋਂ ਲੱਖ ਜੀਭਾਂ ਹੋ ਜਾਣ, ਅਤੇ ਲੱਖ ਜੀਭਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਵੀਹ ਲੱਖ ਬਣ ਜਾਣ,
From one tongue become hundred thousand and thereof two million

ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ

लखु लखु गेड़ा आखीअहि एकु नामु जगदीस ॥
Lakẖ lakẖ geṛā ākẖī▫ahi ek nām jagḏīs.
I would repeat, hundreds of thousands of times, the Name of the One, the Lord of the Universe.
ਹਰ ਇਕ ਜੀਭ ਨਾਲ ਮੈਂ ਲਖੂਖਾਂ ਵਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਦਾ ਉਚਾਰਨ ਕਰਾਂਗਾ।
ਗੇੜਾ = ਫੇਰੇ, ਚੱਕਰ। ਆਖੀਅਹਿ = ਆਖੇ ਜਾਣ। ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ = ਜਗਦੀਸ ਦਾ ਇਕ ਨਾਮ। ਜਗਦੀਸ = ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਈਸ਼, ਜਗਤ ਦਾ ਮਾਲਕ, ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ।

(ਇਹਨਾਂਵੀਹ ਲੱਖ ਜੀਭਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਜੇ) ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੇ ਇਕ ਨਾਮ ਨੂੰ ਇਕ ਇਕ ਲੱਖ ਵਾਰੀ ਆਖੀਏ (ਤਾਂਭੀ ਕੂੜੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ ਇਹ ਕੂੜੀ ਹੀ ਠੀਸ ਹੈ, ਭਾਵ, ਜੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਇਹ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ ਕਰੇ ਕਿ ਮੈਂਆਪਣੇ ਉੱਦਮ ਦੇ ਆਸਰੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰ ਕੇ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੂੰ ਪਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਤਾਂਇਹ ਝੂਠਾ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਹੈ)।
Creator’s name be repeated hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands times
ਏਤੁ ਰਾਹਿ ਪਤਿ ਪਵੜੀਆ ਚੜੀਐ ਹੋਇ ਇਕੀਸ

एतु राहि पति पवड़ीआ चड़ीऐ होइ इकीस ॥
Ėṯ rāhi paṯ pavṛī▫ā cẖaṛī▫ai ho▫e ikīs.
Along this path to our Husband Lord, we climb the steps of the ladder, and come to merge with Him.
ਪਤੀ ਦੇ ਇਸ ਰਸਤੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਪਾਉੜੀਆਂ ਹਨ, ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਡੰਡਿਆਂ ਉਤੇ ਦੀ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਨਾਲ ਇਕ ਮਿਕ ਹੋ ਜਾਵਾਂਗੀ।
ਏਤੁ ਰਾਹਿ = ਇਸ ਰਸਤੇਵਿਚ, ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਰਸਤੇ ਵਿਚ। ਪਤਿ ਪਵੜੀਆ = ਪਤੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ, ਪਤੀਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਜੋ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ਹਨ। ਚੜੀਐ = ਚੜ੍ਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ, ਚੜ੍ਹ ਸਕੀਦਾ ਹੈ। ਹੋਇ ਇਕੀਸ =ਇਕ ਰੂਪ ਹੋ ਕੇ, ਆਪਾ-ਭਾਵ ਗਵਾ ਕੇ।

ਇਸਰਸਤੇ ਵਿਚ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲੋਂ ਵਿੱਥ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੇ ਰਾਹ ਵਿਚ) ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲਣਵਾਸਤੇ ਜੋ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ਹਨ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਆਪਾ-ਭਾਵ ਗਵਾ ਕੇ ਹੀ ਚੜ੍ਹ ਸਕੀਦਾ ਹੈ। (ਲੱਖਾਂਜੀਭਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਭੀ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦੇ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਨਾਲ ਕੁਝ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਣਦਾ।
The steps on such path can only be ascended through extinguishing the “me” within
ਸੁਣਿ ਗਲਾ ਆਕਾਸ ਕੀ ਕੀਟਾ ਆਈ ਰੀਸ

सुणि गला आकास की कीटा आई रीस ॥
Suṇ galā ākās kī kītā ā▫ī rīs.
Hearing of the etheric realms, even worms long to come back home.
ਬੈਕੁੰਠੀ ਬਾਤਾਂ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਕੀੜੇ (ਨੀਚ) ਭੀ ਨਕਲ ਕਰਨੀ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ।
ਸੁਣਿ = ਸੁਣਿ ਕੇ। ਕੀਟਾ = ਕੀੜਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ।

ਆਪਾ-ਭਾਵਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਿਨਾ ਇਹ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਦੇ ਪਾਠਾਂ ਵਾਲਾ ਉੱਦਮ ਇਉਂ ਹੈ, ਮਾਨੋ) ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਦੀਆਂਗੱਲਾਂ ਸੁਣ ਕੇ ਕੀੜਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਇਹ ਰੀਸ ਆ ਗਈ ਹੈ (ਕਿ ਅਸੀਂ ਭੀ ਆਕਾਸ਼ ਤੇ ਅੱਪੜਜਾਈਏ)।
Even the insects copy to hear such talk of the yonder
ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਈਐ ਕੂੜੀ ਕੂੜੈ ਠੀਸ ੩੨॥

नानक नदरी पाईऐ कूड़ी कूड़ै ठीस ॥३२॥
Nānak naḏrī pā▫ī▫ai kūṛī kūrhai ṯẖīs. ||32||
O Guru Nanak, by His Grace He is obtained. False are the boastings of the false. ||32||
ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਉਸਦੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਸਦਕਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਝੂਠੇ ਦੀ ਝੂਠੀ ਹੀ ਗੱਪ ਹੈ।
ਨਦਰੀ = ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੀਮਿਹਰ ਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਰ ਨਾਲ। ਪਾਈਐ = ਪਾਈਦਾ ਹੈ, ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਨੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਕਰੀਦਾ ਹੈ। ਕੂੜੈ =ਕੂੜੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ। ਕੂੜੀ ਠਸਿ = ਝੂਠੀ ਗੱਪ, ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਦੀ ਝੂਠੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ।

ਹੇਨਾਨਕ! ਜੇ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਮਿਹਰ ਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਰ ਕਰੇ, ਤਾਂ ਹੀ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਮਿਲੀਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ)ਕੂੜੇ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਦੀ ਨਿਰੀ ਕੂੜੀ ਹੀ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਹੈ (ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾਹਾਂ) ॥੩੨॥
Guru Nanak only with blessing we achieve, false talk only of falsehood

Essence: Guru ji dismiss the approach of parroting and liken it to insects who in like large number fly upwards as to reach the sky. Humility in self and blessing of the creator allow success all else is falsehood of the false.
Sat Sri Akal.
 
Last edited:

BhagatSingh

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Apr 24, 2006
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Ambarsaria ji,
The essence of that Pauri is without God's grace ego cannot be eliminated and Creator and Creation cannot be understood. Without God's Grace one cannot live in consonance but that shouldn't stop us from trying to be in consonance. God's Grace becomes more and more likely to happen the more intensely you identify with the God inside you, the more you bring God in and let the ego leave (hence the more consonant you are).

Tejwant Singh ji,
The way I understand the Pauri, the question is answered and actually will never come up as it is not an issue. Of course, any handicap is going to come in the way of a technique, of a certain act that gets your attention to God and makes you remember you essence and connection with him. Being blind one cannot read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Being deaf one cannot listen to Kirtan and Paath. Being mentally challenged one cannot understand the concepts of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Missing all limbs, with just a torso and head with dysfunctional eyes, ears and tongue...

One can still meditate and live to the fullest without suffering. Actually, I am of the opinion that handicaps often drive the intensity needed for meditation. ;)

My understanding is that all of these handicaps do not matter when it comes to meditation. Meditation is available anyone who is conscious (so no sleeping during simran. Although when one is an expert one can meditate in their sleep or better stated one goes through life in meditation ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਣ ਗੋਇੰਦ ਨਿਤ ਗਾਉ ).

Specific techniques depend on the individual but all individuals can meditate. I repeat in the words of a previous post: Anyone can identify with that embrace that embraces pride, ego, anger, etc and everything else.

See what that embrace is in you. What is it that which embraces everything?


Tejwant Singh ji as you suggested.
I go into other shabads and personal experience when I feel it helps to explain. With that said, no amount of intellectual understanding, theoretical knowledge can replace actual practice and direct experience of what any shabad talks about. One cannot learn to swim by reading a book.


ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
स्रीरागु महला ५ ॥
Sarīrāg mėhlā 5.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:

ਸੋਈ ਧਿਆਈਐ (to concentrate) ਜੀਅੜੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾਂ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ॥
सोई धिआईऐ जीअड़े सिरि साहां पातिसाहु ॥
So▫ī ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai jī▫aṛe sir sāhāʼn pāṯisāhu.
Meditate on Him, O my soul; He is the Supreme Lord over kings and emperors.

ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਕਰਿ ਆਸ ਮਨ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੁ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥
तिस ही की करि आस मन जिस का सभसु वेसाहु ॥
Ŧis hī kī kar ās man jis kā sabẖas vesāhu.
Place the hopes of your mind in the One, in whom all have faith.

ਸਭਿ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ (intelligence, intellect) ਛਡਿ ਕੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਚਰਣੀ ਪਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
सभि सिआणपा छडि कै गुर की चरणी पाहु ॥१॥
Sabẖ si▫āṇpā cẖẖad kai gur kī cẖarṇī pāhu. ||1||
Give up all your clever tricks, and grasp the Feet of the Guru. ||1||

To drop your intellect for a while in remembering God, does not mean you become stupid say "Doh...". It means to transcend your intellect. Let it go and let Guru's wisdom speak directly to you. Or if you practicing a particular meditation technique, drop the intellect and listen to the Guru (inside of you).

ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜ ਸੇਤੀ ਜਪਿ ਨਾਉ ॥
मन मेरे सुख सहज सेती जपि नाउ ॥
Man mere sukẖ sahj seṯī jap nā▫o.
O my mind, chant the Name with intuitive peace and poise.
ਸਹਜ - (natural state, intuition, without mental activity e.g. judging, thinking)
Chant the name without mental activity. Mental activity will occur as that is the way of the mind, but let it run out of thoughts by not reacting to it. Simply remember God when it does so.

ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਣ ਗੋਇੰਦ ਨਿਤ ਗਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आठ पहर प्रभु धिआइ तूं गुण गोइंद नित गाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Āṯẖ pahar parabẖ ḏẖi▫ā▫e ṯūʼn guṇ go▫inḏ niṯ gā▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Twenty-four hours a day, meditate on God (It is possible!). Constantly sing the Glories of the Lord of the Universe. ||1||Pause||

A very real possibility. Enlightened ones say they are in meditation even when asleep thus their dreams do not seem real to them as they dream them.
The unenlightened ones think their dreams are real and are totally engrossed in them while dreaming. Once they wake up they realize it was all a dream.

This also applies when one is not sleeping or dreaming, when we are going about our daily activities. Maya, the world, is like a dream that you are engrossed in. Wake up!


ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਸਰਨੀ ਪਰੁ ਮਨਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
तिस की सरनी परु मना जिसु जेवडु अवरु न कोइ ॥
Ŧis kī sarnī par manā jis jevad avar na ko▫e.
Seek His Shelter, O my mind; there is no other as Great as He.

Wake up and seek his shelter, the embrace.

ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਮਰਤ (to remember, repeat) ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਘਣਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਦਰਦੁ ਨ ਮੂਲੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
जिसु सिमरत सुखु होइ घणा दुखु दरदु न मूले होइ ॥
Jis simraṯ sukẖ ho▫e gẖaṇā ḏukẖ ḏaraḏ na mūle ho▫e.
Remembering Him in meditation, a profound peace is obtained. Pain and suffering will not touch you at all.

How to remember? Call His name out. Think of His virtues. Think about what He has given you. As you think, you can only think about one thing at a time. You want to remember God in his entirety, thinking is limited to one a few things. Intuition, your being, and it's ability to know, understand and remember things all at once, comes into play. It is an untapped power in most people.

For instance, an artist cannot think about his painting as he does it, otherwise, he cannot completely focus on the painting and do as good a job. He must let his being automatically do the painting; must let God act through him/his form. This is intuition in action.
The artist simply looks and applies paint. He does not analyze or make measurements. The level at which this analysis and measuring occurs is the intuitive level, at this level the artist's understanding cannot be rivalled by his intellect! the analysis that takes place in the intuitive state is thus very powerful but it happens without thought, in a state when the artist is letting God run things.


We want to know God but the one who will eventually know God is God.He is the Enjoyer, He is the enjoyment. - page 23

He is the artist, He himself is the painting.


ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਕਰਿ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥
सदा सदा करि चाकरी प्रभु साहिबु सचा सोइ ॥२॥
Saḏā saḏā kar cẖākrī parabẖ sāhib sacẖā so▫e. ||2||
Forever and ever, work for God; He is our True Lord and Master. ||2||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਕਟੀਐ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸ ॥
साधसंगति होइ निरमला कटीऐ जम की फास ॥
Sāḏẖsangaṯ ho▫e nirmalā katī▫ai jam kī fās.
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you shall become absolutely pure, and the noose of death shall be cut away.

ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਭੈ ਭੰਜਨੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥
सुखदाता भै भंजनो तिसु आगै करि अरदासि ॥
Sukẖ▫ḏāṯa bẖai bẖanjno ṯis āgai kar arḏās.
So offer your prayers to Him, the Giver of Peace, the Destroyer of fear.

ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨੁ ਤਾਂ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਆਵੈ ਰਾਸਿ ॥੩॥
मिहर करे जिसु मिहरवानु तां कारजु आवै रासि ॥३॥
Mihar kare jis miharvān ṯāʼn kāraj āvai rās. ||3||
Showing His Mercy, the Merciful Master shall resolve your affairs. ||3||

ਬਹੁਤੋ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ਊਚੋ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ ॥
बहुतो बहुतु वखाणीऐ ऊचो ऊचा थाउ ॥
Bahuṯo bahuṯ vakẖāṇī▫ai ūcẖo ūcẖā thā▫o.
The Lord is said to be the Greatest of the Great; His Kingdom is the Highest of the High.

ਵਰਨਾ ਚਿਹਨਾ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਉ ॥
वरना चिहना बाहरा कीमति कहि न सकाउ ॥
varnā cẖihnā bāhrā kīmaṯ kahi na sakā▫o.
He has no color or mark; His Value cannot be estimated.

In other words: What does The Embrace look like? That part of you which embraces everything, what does that look like?

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਅਪੁਣਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੭॥੭੭॥
नानक कउ प्रभ मइआ करि सचु देवहु अपुणा नाउ ॥४॥७॥७७॥
Nānak ka▫o parabẖ ma▫i▫ā kar sacẖ ḏevhu apuṇā nā▫o. ||4||7||77||
Please show Mercy to Guru Nanak, God, and bless him with Your True Name. ||4||7||77||
page 44

Mehar Kare Jis Meharwan - Bhai Jaswant Singh - Live Sri Harmandir Sahib - YouTube
Listen to the shabad and be at peace and allow me to return to Prakash ji's advice.
 
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Tejwant Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let me try once again.

You write:

Tejwant Singh ji,
The way I understand the Pauri, the question is answered and actually will never come up as it is not an issue. Of course, any handicap is going to come in the way of a technique, of a certain act that gets your attention to God and makes you remember you essence and connection with him. Being blind one cannot read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Being deaf one cannot listen to Kirtan and Paath. Being mentally challenged one cannot understand the concepts of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Missing all limbs, with just a torso and head with dysfunctional eyes, ears and tongue...

Gurbani is a universal message and our Gurus thought about all human kind. You have inverted the things from our Guru to the people. My question to you still stands.

Are you trying to say that this universal message of Gurbani by the founder of the pragmatic way of life, Guru Nanak, is only for the selective people who can talk?

Or, may be is there a possibility that your understanding of this particular Pauri is totally biased towards one group of people, not Guru Nanak's, because we know Gurbani is for all? No exception.

You know very well Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru is for breeding goodness in all.

So, give it a second thought before you respond hastily.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 
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ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

What this interprets to mind
Quote:
How would you translate Naam in this pauri from Jap ji?
ਇਕ ਦੂ ਜੀਭੌ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਲਖ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਲਖ ਵੀਸ ॥
इक दू जीभौ लख होहि लख होवहि लख वीस ॥
Ik ḏū jībẖou lakẖ hohi lakẖ hovėh lakẖ vīs.
If I had 100,000 tongues, and these were then multiplied twenty times more, with each tongue,
with many tongues, what ever tongue discuss.
ਲਖੁ ਲਖੁ ਗੇੜਾ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਗਦੀਸ ॥
लखु लखु गेड़ा आखीअहि एकु नामु जगदीस ॥
Lakẖ lakẖ geṛā ākẖī▫ahi ek nām jagḏīs.
I would repeat, hundreds of thousands of times, the Name of the One, the Lord of the Universe.
all learning, dicussion are originated and connected to one "NAAM"

It's like if when we name a child, we discuss good, bad, scores, behaviours, etc,
many discusions of one relates to name

So every thing is his creation, when we recite/listen/ remember (For MUTE) NAAM, or all his creation and events, it all leads to same. One say "NAAM" with mind, it all appears.
(We differ in opinions, because of different gifts, experiences and WILL)

Word by Word, line by line, imbibe essence.


Whaeguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Tejwant Singh ji as you suggested.
I go into other shabads and personal experience when I feel it helps to explain. With that said, no amount of intellectual understanding, theoretical knowledge can replace actual practice and direct experience of what any shabad talks about. One cannot learn to swim by reading a book.[/COLOR]

ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
स्रीरागु महला ५ ॥
Sarīrāg mėhlā 5.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:

ਸੋਈ ਧਿਆਈਐ (to concentrate) ਜੀਅੜੇ ਸਿਰਿ ਸਾਹਾਂ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੁ ॥
सोई धिआईऐ जीअड़े सिरि साहां पातिसाहु ॥
So▫ī ḏẖi▫ā▫ī▫ai jī▫aṛe sir sāhāʼn pāṯisāhu.
Meditate on Him, O my soul; He is the Supreme Lord over kings and emperors.

ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਕਰਿ ਆਸ ਮਨ ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਸਭਸੁ ਵੇਸਾਹੁ ॥
तिस ही की करि आस मन जिस का सभसु वेसाहु ॥
Ŧis hī kī kar ās man jis kā sabẖas vesāhu.
Place the hopes of your mind in the One, in whom all have faith.

ਸਭਿ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ (intelligence, intellect) ਛਡਿ ਕੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਚਰਣੀ ਪਾਹੁ ॥੧॥
सभि सिआणपा छडि कै गुर की चरणी पाहु ॥१॥
Sabẖ si▫āṇpā cẖẖad kai gur kī cẖarṇī pāhu. ||1||
Give up all your clever tricks, and grasp the Feet of the Guru. ||1||

To drop your intellect for a while in remembering God, does not mean you become stupid say "Doh...". It means to transcend your intellect. Let it go and let Guru's wisdom speak directly to you. Or if you practicing a particular meditation technique, drop the intellect and listen to the Guru (inside of you).

ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜ ਸੇਤੀ ਜਪਿ ਨਾਉ ॥
मन मेरे सुख सहज सेती जपि नाउ ॥
Man mere sukẖ sahj seṯī jap nā▫o.
O my mind, chant the Name with intuitive peace and poise.
ਸਹਜ - (natural state, intuition, without mental activity e.g. judging, thinking)
Chant the name without mental activity. Mental activity will occur as that is the way of the mind, but let it run out of thoughts by not reacting to it. Simply remember God when it does so.

ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਤੂੰ ਗੁਣ ਗੋਇੰਦ ਨਿਤ ਗਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आठ पहर प्रभु धिआइ तूं गुण गोइंद नित गाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Āṯẖ pahar parabẖ ḏẖi▫ā▫e ṯūʼn guṇ go▫inḏ niṯ gā▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Twenty-four hours a day, meditate on God (It is possible!). Constantly sing the Glories of the Lord of the Universe. ||1||Pause||

A very real possibility. Enlightened ones say they are in meditation even when asleep thus their dreams do not seem real to them as they dream them.
The unenlightened ones think their dreams are real and are totally engrossed in them while dreaming. Once they wake up they realize it was all a dream.

This also applies when one is not sleeping or dreaming, when we are going about our daily activities. Maya, the world, is like a dream that you are engrossed in. Wake up!


ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਸਰਨੀ ਪਰੁ ਮਨਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਜੇਵਡੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
तिस की सरनी परु मना जिसु जेवडु अवरु न कोइ ॥
Ŧis kī sarnī par manā jis jevad avar na ko▫e.
Seek His Shelter, O my mind; there is no other as Great as He.

Wake up and seek his shelter, the embrace.

ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਮਰਤ (to remember, repeat) ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਘਣਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਦਰਦੁ ਨ ਮੂਲੇ ਹੋਇ ॥
जिसु सिमरत सुखु होइ घणा दुखु दरदु न मूले होइ ॥
Jis simraṯ sukẖ ho▫e gẖaṇā ḏukẖ ḏaraḏ na mūle ho▫e.
Remembering Him in meditation, a profound peace is obtained. Pain and suffering will not touch you at all.

How to remember? Call His name out. Think of His virtues. Think about what He has given you. As you think, you can only think about one thing at a time. You want to remember God in his entirety, thinking is limited to one a few things. Intuition, your being, and it's ability to know, understand and remember things all at once, comes into play. It is an untapped power in most people.

For instance, an artist cannot think about his painting as he does it, otherwise, he cannot completely focus on the painting and do as good a job. He must let his being automatically do the painting; must let God act through him/his form. This is intuition in action.
The artist simply looks and applies paint. He does not analyze or make measurements. The level at which this analysis and measuring occurs is the intuitive level, at this level the artist's understanding cannot be rivalled by his intellect! the analysis that takes place in the intuitive state is thus very powerful but it happens without thought, in a state when the artist is letting God run things.


We want to know God but the one who will eventually know God is God.He is the Enjoyer, He is the enjoyment. - page 23

He is the artist, He himself is the painting.


ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਕਰਿ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਚਾ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥
सदा सदा करि चाकरी प्रभु साहिबु सचा सोइ ॥२॥
Saḏā saḏā kar cẖākrī parabẖ sāhib sacẖā so▫e. ||2||
Forever and ever, work for God; He is our True Lord and Master. ||2||

ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਕਟੀਐ ਜਮ ਕੀ ਫਾਸ ॥
साधसंगति होइ निरमला कटीऐ जम की फास ॥
Sāḏẖsangaṯ ho▫e nirmalā katī▫ai jam kī fās.
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you shall become absolutely pure, and the noose of death shall be cut away.

ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਭੈ ਭੰਜਨੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਕਰਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ॥
सुखदाता भै भंजनो तिसु आगै करि अरदासि ॥
Sukẖ▫ḏāṯa bẖai bẖanjno ṯis āgai kar arḏās.
So offer your prayers to Him, the Giver of Peace, the Destroyer of fear.

ਮਿਹਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਿਹਰਵਾਨੁ ਤਾਂ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਆਵੈ ਰਾਸਿ ॥੩॥
मिहर करे जिसु मिहरवानु तां कारजु आवै रासि ॥३॥
Mihar kare jis miharvān ṯāʼn kāraj āvai rās. ||3||
Showing His Mercy, the Merciful Master shall resolve your affairs. ||3||

ਬਹੁਤੋ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ਊਚੋ ਊਚਾ ਥਾਉ ॥
बहुतो बहुतु वखाणीऐ ऊचो ऊचा थाउ ॥
Bahuṯo bahuṯ vakẖāṇī▫ai ūcẖo ūcẖā thā▫o.
The Lord is said to be the Greatest of the Great; His Kingdom is the Highest of the High.

ਵਰਨਾ ਚਿਹਨਾ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਉ ॥
वरना चिहना बाहरा कीमति कहि न सकाउ ॥
varnā cẖihnā bāhrā kīmaṯ kahi na sakā▫o.
He has no color or mark; His Value cannot be estimated.

In other words: What does The Embrace look like? That part of you which embraces everything, what does that look like?

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਉ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਸਚੁ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਅਪੁਣਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੪॥੭॥੭੭॥
नानक कउ प्रभ मइआ करि सचु देवहु अपुणा नाउ ॥४॥७॥७७॥
Nānak ka▫o parabẖ ma▫i▫ā kar sacẖ ḏevhu apuṇā nā▫o. ||4||7||77||
Please show Mercy to Guru Nanak, God, and bless him with Your True Name. ||4||7||77||
page 44

Sorry to disappoint you but in my opinion, you have distorted the message of our Guru Sahib with the help of literal translation which is distorting on its own because it is literally translated word by word without giving it a second thought about the true message our Guru Sahib is trying to convey.

Try putting this poetry into prose in your own words with your body, mind and spirit and you would come to the realisation of what Guru Sahib is trying to convey.

What good is the personal experience attained through parroting when it can not be transported to other people and make a true difference in their lives?

It rather becomes more like a self-centered venture of a junkie.

Literal translations are like feel good drugs. That is why their affect is very transitory. The message of Gurbani is to make goodness become our second nature and no kind of parroting can make that happen. Only by understanding, and practicing the message in the world of Miri-Piri can we make a difference as Sikhs.

Parroting can only breed chest thumping me-ism which is contrary to what our Gurus want us to do through SGGS, our only Guru.

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

BhagatSingh

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Tejwant Singh ji
What is parroting?
I am not speaking about that but you seem to want to discuss it. So let's start over. I will let you kick start the discussion, what is your definition of parroting?

Let us attempt to find a road from parroting to "by understanding, and practicing the message in the world of Miri-Piri can we make a difference as Sikhs." together.
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

SAT SANGAT,

all those who want's to seek truth of nature through "GURU's BANI" and Sadh Jan

Who practise that "Sat as Dharam" dharam as daily routine, as sun is following its

dharam and so on..


At Gurmat Veechar all members, we are all reflecting and sharing our mind,

on our experience of "GURU's BANI"

One shall always reject the thought, which appears to be wrong and shall not give personal comments, to any one, one may seek clarity on issues.

Each and every opinion is important to dispel the darkness.

Thought can be rejected, but no individual,

So no rejection with names called,

each name belongs to "GURU"

Its congregation of truth, all are Guru's Sikh.

Sometime one may appear better, and sometime other.

But true "NAAM" is his,

Everyone is reflecting his understanding to how it appears to one's own mind.

It is the purification process, seeking truth.

Let's seek "TRUTH" and reject what is not truth without personal comments.


Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Tejwant Singh ji
What is parroting?
I am not speaking about that but you seem to want to discuss it. So let's start over. I will let you kick start the discussion, what is your definition of parroting?

Let us attempt to find a road from parroting to "by understanding, and practicing the message in the world of Miri-Piri can we make a difference as Sikhs." together.

Bhagat Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

I asked you the question sometime ago when you claimed that there is a difference between chanting and parroting and the question was for you to explain the difference. I am still waiting for the answer.

I am sure once we find the difference and understand that Sikhi is not about chanting/parroting some words but a lot more than that, then we can find a common ground," "by understanding, and practicing the message in the world of Miri-Piri can we make a difference as Sikhs."

Bhagat Singh ji, the fact is there is no such word as meditation in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the word you love to repeat as often as possible. In Sidh Ghosht, Guru Nanak is against what Hindus call meditation. That is why literal translations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are not only dangerous but also misleading.

Hope to hear from you about the difference of chanting and parroting and if either is part of Sikhi or is there more to it than meets the eye?

Regards

Tejwant Singh
 

Tejwant Singh

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Ravneet ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am sorry to say that your post is too cryptic for a lay man like me to grasp. Simplicity is the best way to convey the message as our Gurus did, so even a common person could understand and put their message into practice .

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Sat Sri Akaal,

SAT SANGAT,

all those who want's to seek truth of nature through "GURU's BANI" and Sadh Jan

Who practise that "Sat as Dharam" dharam as daily routine, as sun is following its

dharam and so on..


At Gurmat Veechar all members, we are all reflecting and sharing our mind,

on our experience of "GURU's BANI"

One shall always reject the thought, which appears to be wrong and shall not give personal comments, to any one, one may seek clarity on issues.

Each and every opinion is important to dispel the darkness.

Thought can be rejected, but no individual,

So no rejection with names called,

each name belongs to "GURU"

Its congregation of truth, all are Guru's Sikh.

Sometime one may appear better, and sometime other.

But true "NAAM" is his,

Everyone is reflecting his understanding to how it appears to one's own mind.

It is the purification process, seeking truth.

Let's seek "TRUTH" and reject what is not truth without personal comments.


Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 
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I take the meaning of EKu NAAMu JAGDEESH as

THE LORD of the UNIVERSE is only one NAAMu and this NAAMu is RAAM NAAMu/HARi NAAMu or GURMATi RAAM NAAMu. This becomes clear as we read SGGS with concentration on the meanings of the words of Gurbani.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 

Ambarsaria

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TEJWANT SINGH Ji,

From Gurbani we can learn that the GRACE of Gurbani is avaiable to One and ALL.But the contemplation and understanding of true meanings is to RARE ones.
Then becoming RARE ONE is again thru the grace of Prabhu/SatiGuru only.
So ULTIMATELY it is all GRACE.............................................................
Prakash S Bagga
 

Tejwant Singh

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TEJWANT SINGH Ji,

From Gurbani we can learn that the GRACE of Gurbani is avaiable to One and ALL.But the contemplation and understanding of true meanings is to RARE ones.
Then becoming RARE ONE is again thru the grace of Prabhu/SatiGuru only.
So ULTIMATELY it is all GRACE.............................................................
Prakash S Bagga

Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree with you partially. The rare one as is called Virla in SGGS, our only Guru is misunderstood by many.

Jews in Judaism claim to be the rare ones because they proclaim to be "Chosen" by Yahweh, their Abrahamic God.

However, in Sikhi all Sikhs are rare ones. Ik Ong Kaar does not discriminate among Sikhs as does the Abrahamic God.

So, we all who become Sikhs are the RARE ONES.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I am still waiting for your valuable insights for my post directed to you in the following thread of Sukhmani Shabad 2.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhm...ani-sahib-astpadi-1-sabad-2-a.html#post157456
 

ravneet_sb

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Sat Sri Akaal,

All the negatives,
what reflects from mind are mine.

The cause of "Gurmat Veechar" is self improvement.

Ravneet says

I was always parroting, till now,

with blessings, I realised the essence.

please treat me as foolish ignorant in this "Sat Sangat"

I have to seek truth in this congregation of "Sat Sangat"

Please ignore my negatives so that I can get place in "Sat Sangat"

Humble request to all for no personal comments for individuals and "sat sangat"

Let's seek "Guru's Bani" as humble beings.


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree with you partially. The rare one as is called Virla in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru is misunderstood by many.

Jews in Judaism claim to be the rare ones because they proclaim to be "Chosen" by Yahweh, their Abrahamic God.

However, in Sikhi all Sikhs are rare ones. Ik Ong Kaar does not discriminate among Sikhs as does the Abrahamic God.

So, we all who become Sikhs are the RARE ONES.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I am still waiting for your valuable insights for my post directed to you in the following thread of Sukhmani Shabad 2.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhm...ani-sahib-astpadi-1-sabad-2-a.html#post157456

I have aleady interacted as per your advice .I look forward to your views.

Prakash.S.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
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Prakash Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

I agree with you partially. The rare one as is called Virla in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, our only Guru is misunderstood by many.

Jews in Judaism claim to be the rare ones because they proclaim to be "Chosen" by Yahweh, their Abrahamic God.

However, in Sikhi all Sikhs are rare ones. Ik Ong Kaar does not discriminate among Sikhs as does the Abrahamic God.

So, we all who become Sikhs are the RARE ONES.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

PS: I am still waiting for your valuable insights for my post directed to you in the following thread of Sukhmani Shabad 2.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sukhm...ani-sahib-astpadi-1-sabad-2-a.html#post157456

Sir,I have already interacted as per your advice.I look forward to your viewstoshare the same.
Prakash.s.Bagga
 
Aug 28, 2010
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TEJWANT SINGH Ji,
In fact the whole humanity or to say the UNIVERSE is under the grace of CREATOR Prabhu/SatiGuRu.What is special about Sikhs?
Sikhs are rare in the sense that Sikhs are blessed with SABADu as LIVING GuRoo.
As Sikhs read SGGS they automatically get connected to RAAM NAAMu of the Creator.
{Sikhs may not actually be knowing what is RAAM NAAMu in Gurbani)
For enjoying the grace of the CREATOR Prabhu/SatiGuRu understanding does not play any role.One can enjoy the grace without understanding also.
Prakash.S.Bagga
 

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