Islam Creation In Islam

[Archived_Member_19]

why did islamic science stop only at reproduction?

what about atomic bombs?

why does iran not read Koran and build a bomb?

why do they get it from other countries?

 

[Archived_Member_19]

another qn dear AZZ

someone pointed that there are 7 heavens and 7 earths and you said it was wrong... can you prove that quran doesnot say so?


someone gave example of asexual reproduction...and you said that it is extreme example..

if the author of Koran was all knowing it would know of this too. why deliver an incomplete message?

coming back to your logic of koran being proved by science...

many of the scientific things are also still theories...which can get rejected...

like

you mentioned that God rules over all beings through laws of physics

there are many examples where physics laws are not obeyed..

have you heard of Tacheyons?

have you read rebuttal of Gravitation theory?

have you seen the limits being discovered in einstein's theory of relativity?

have you read about concept of duality of matter?



coming back to your logic of koran talking abt how babies are made..

Aristotle and other philosophers had detailed how babies grow in mother's womb..

indian physicians knew about ceasarian birht techniques....

do you know that indian vedas talk abt atoms, molecules and how they build up the world?

this is a statement from upanishads

"Gods exists in anu(atoms), he is divisible still and changes form. God is the all powerful force(energy)

this exactly is the duality recently proved by science.

also to your big bang...
universe as per the latest discoveries is not all expanding..

it expands and then contracts...

this is what is explained in SGGS and Vedas...

the cycles of creation and destruction, which happen through God's will in cycles.



<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT color=black><STRONG>"Creation is only the projection into form of that which already exists... The atoms of the universe may be counted, but not so my manifestations; for eternally I create innumerable worlds." Srimad Bhagavatam, III.2,XI.10<I>

 

[japjisahib04]

Gurbani talks of atom bomb and its power five hundred years before which was only invented recently. It says,“nIkI kIrI mih kl rwKY ] Bsm krY lskr koit lwKY ] He infuses His Power into the tiny atom which can then reduce the armies of millions to ashes.” – Guru Granth ang.285.19.
Regards Sahni Mohinder

 

[Dimitri]

Gurbani talks of atom bomb and its power five hundred years before which was only invented recently. It says,“nIkI kIrI mih kl rwKY ] Bsm krY lskr koit lwKY ] He infuses His Power into the tiny atom which can then reduce the armies of millions to ashes.” – Guru Granth ang.285.19.
Regards Sahni Mohinder

NiKi KiRi = Atom.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

dimitri ji and sahni ji

question to us is not of oneupmanship

its an illogical reasoning to say that because one book talks of some scientific truths, all other logics and messages are correct and divine.


it is same as saying that because my maths book says 2+2 =4

if the author also says that i need to kick my neighbour's butt...i should be doing that


it could be true to some and some might chose to follow it

but thank you

doesn't impress me !!

SGGS aim is not to talk of science, anatomy or geography

It is a guide to spiritual living

sikhism accepts science as independent, rational thinking. hence religion doesnot mess up with it.

so comparing Quran with SGGS is a farce.

Quran is a "toolkit"...something like Java for Dummies series

SGGS is a collection of verses about their enlightenment as shared by many a great men and truth seekers.

same holds true for hindu scriptures and thought

there is difference in Hindu thought and what we see as the brahmanical interpretation and rituals.

Vedic thought is deep and quite close to sikh thought.

 

[azizrasul]

why does iran not read Koran and build a bomb?

Because the Qur’an does not tell u how to build a bomb. Perhaps the Sikh or Hindu scriptures do?

someone pointed that there are 7 heavens and 7 earths and you said it was wrong... can you prove that quran doesnot say so?

Plz re-read what I said and come back.

someone gave example of asexual reproduction...and you said that it is extreme example..

21:30 talks about all living things being made from water. Bacteria was not being referred to in this verse, that’s why I say it is not an appropriate comparison. Most people would c in this verse as referring to living creatures, vegetation. However bacteria ARE made from water as well.

why deliver an incomplete message?

If the Sikh scriptures don’t tell us how to build a bomb, does this mean that the Sikh scripture has given an incomplete message? Seems a silly thing to say that just because the Qur’an doesn’t tell us everything that that in sum way means the Qur’an is incomplete. God tells us the important things that helps us in our lives.

there are many examples where physics laws are not obeyed..

From the verses that I quoted in the Qur’an can u tell which these are. For example has the moon stopped orbiting? Has fertilised eggs stopped implanting when women become pregnant?

"Gods exists in anu(atoms), he is divisible still and changes form. God is the all powerful force(energy)

this exactly is the duality recently proved by science.

How do u know that God exists in atoms? How do u no he is divisible and changes form?

it expands and then contracts...

Does it? That’s a new one on me.

It is a guide to spiritual living

Yep so is the Qur’an. C below.

Quran is a "toolkit"...something like Java for Dummies series

U mean something like this: -

Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:104 See also verses 3:110, 5:2 and 7:199-202.

Who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you is best in conduct; and He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;
Qur’an - Surah at-Talaaq (Divorce) 67:2 See also 6:18.

28. Who have believed and whose hearts have rest in the remembrance of Allah. Verily in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest!
29. Those who believe and do right: Joy is for them, and bliss (their) journey's end.
Qur’an - Surah ar-Ra`ad (The Thunder) 13:28-9

30. Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; - Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
31. He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they set up (with Him).
32. He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner; His are the most excellent names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
Qur’an - Surah al-Hashr (The Exile) 59:22-4

If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks Allah's forgiveness, he will find Allah Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Qur’an - Surah an-Nisaa’ (The Women) 4:110

Say: “O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Qur’an - Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:53 See also 2:37, 16:110, 20:82, 38:66, 39:5, 40:42, 71:10, etc.

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
Qur’an - Surah an-Nisaa’ (The Women) 4:48

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<Because the Qur’an does not tell u how to build a bomb. Perhaps the Sikh or Hindu scriptures do?>>

then it is incomplete..isn't it?

by your logic, Quran holds all the scientific truth...why did it miss something which could have hurried the arrival of Ummah?

<<Plz re-read what I said and come back.>>

i read it and posted it...please donot duck the question

be brave and stand up to accept what your faith preaches

<<21:30 talks about all living things being made from water. Bacteria was not being referred to in this verse, that’s why I say it is not an appropriate comparison. Most people would c in this verse as referring to living creatures, vegetation. However bacteria ARE made from water as well.>>

talks are also of reproduction...all i am asking is that why Quran missed out that there could be asexual reproduction?

bacteria are living creatures.

Also have you heard of other examples of asexual reproduction?

Aphids,
Cape Bees
whiptail lizards

and here is an extreme ... female turkeys can lay eggs without mating with male turkeys and the eggs hatch male turkeys.

so my dear friend....if there were so many species created by God, why did they miss out in Quran...if the author was so intent on explaining reproduction.


<<If the Sikh scriptures don’t tell us how to build a bomb, does this mean that the Sikh scripture has given an incomplete message? Seems a silly thing to say that just because the Qur’an doesn’t tell us everything that that in sum way means the Qur’an is incomplete. God tells us the important things that helps us in our lives. >>

sikh scriptures are NOT a scientific thesis...as you are touting quran to be. Don't you think Bomb is important for Ummah?

why is Iran going crazy for nuclear power then?

<<From the verses that I quoted in the Qur’an can u tell which these are. For example has the moon stopped orbiting? Has fertilised eggs stopped implanting when women become pregnant?>>

LOL... they are too vague to be called scientific statements..

does Quran talk about exact orbit, velocity ?

no ...then its not a scientific statement

any layman knows that once a woman is pregnant the periods stop...so this is a layman statement that now her egg is in her womb..

but if it told all about where in womb, its details etc...then it becomes scientific statement.

<How do u know that God exists in atoms? How do u no he is divisible and changes form?>

how do you know that God told the Quran message to Muhammed?

<<Does it? That’s a new one on me.>>

please check with any astro physicist

nothing can go on expanding... this is a complex theory so this forum is not suitable for this discussion.

the basic logic is this...

with the bang..the mass moves out...but gravitation pulls arrange the mass into galaxies but they still move out as the velocities are high..

but at certain point of time......due to brakes being applied by the gravitation pull and the reduction of the energies...the galaxies will stop moving ****her...and start coming together...

read Stephen Hawking's new theory of Big bang- Big Crunch and the Big Rip

as you are in UK,

you can contact the Royal society of Science. They will be able to guide you on research

 

[Archived_Member_19]

regarding Islam , quran and it being the guide..
pls go to any madrassa

they do everything as quran says

how to eat, how to sleep, how to pray

maybe more..like

Here is why i said the line that its a guide:


Treating women-

Women witness is half of men...2:282
This is a very well known fact in Islam. Even if a woman is the Prime Minister of an Islamic Paradise she is still inferior to the dumbest of men when it comes to legal matters. Her evidence by herself is never acceptable in an Islamic court of law. It is because of her deficiency in intelligence and lack of memory. What a disgrace to women and their ability of judgment! What happens if a woman becomes a judge? I really do not know the answer. Not only that a single woman’s evidence is unacceptable in an Islamic court, but also the women witnesses are completely unacceptable in Sharia where Hudud punishments are involved such as adultery, apostasy, theft…etc. This means that if a woman is raped her evidence or the evidence of any other women (even though there were thousands of women who witnessed the very act with their own eyes) will not be accepted unless four adult Muslim men give evidence that they saw the actual act of fornication with their own eyes. What a justice! I think even a Kangaroo court is better than this type of Islamic court. Now, let us hear from the Qur’an. This verse is very lengthy, in fact, the longest verse in the Qur’an. Therefore, I shall quote only the relevant part.


002.282
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.


This verse is nothing but a slap on the face literally to every woman in this world. In today’s world, we have women in almost every profession, even in the tough professions like Law, Medicine, Engineering, Education, Professor, even Astronaut. If we go by ‘real Islam,’ then all those professional ladies who are not only highly qualified, but also superbly capable of managing the affairs of a company or even a nation are simply lacking in intelligence (read stupid). It’s a small wonder that we see the most of the wretched women in Islamic paradises.

Menstruation is a defect in women for they cannot fast and pray during their periods... (Shahih Bukhari 3.31.172)

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 172:
Narrated Abu Said:
The Prophet said, "Isn't it true that a woman does not pray and does not fast on menstruating? And that is the defect (a loss) in her religion."

Duties of a wife
The most important duty of an Islamic wife is to satisfy the sexual desire/s of her husband. This may seem unbelievable at first, but wait! Isn’t the purpose of paying the mahr to a woman is to obtain the right to use her sexual organs for carnal gratification? An Islamic woman should never say ‘no’ to her husband’s demand for sex unless she has a natural reason like having her period or sickness. Even this natural menstruation cycle is considered a disease (Qur’an 2:222). How disgusting. I wrote about this in a previous section. Let us briefly review the hadith and Sha’ria on this issue.

If a woman abandons her husband’s bed for the night then the angels curse her until morning…(Shahih Muslim 8.3366)
Book 008, Number 3366:
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: When a woman spends the night away from the bed of her husband, the angels curse her until morning. This hadith has been narrated through the same chain of transmitters (with a slight variation):" He said: Until she comes back."

Allah gets displeased with the woman who does not respond when her husband demands sex from her…(Shahih Muslim 8.3367)

Book 008, Number 3367:
Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, when a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond, the One Who is in the heaven is displeased with her until he (her husband) is pleased with her.

Imam Ghazali
A woman must keep her sexual organs ready for service at all times (Ref: 7: vol. I, p235)

“She should prefer her husband before herself, and before all her relatives, she should keep herself clean and ready at all times for her husband to enjoy her whenever he wishes.”
Be sad during husband’s absence (Ibid, p236)
“And from the ethics of the woman is that she should adhere to righteousness, and sad in the absence of her husband, and to return to play and happiness and be the cause of enjoyment when he is present”.

Here are some merciful Sha’ria laws for women. Please note that if a woman has received her mahr or agreed to its deferment to a future date, which is a normal custom in the present day, then submitting her sexual organs for husband’s use/desire is rather obligatory. If she refuses to this type of sexual slavery, then she will not be entitled to her daily maintenance allowance (see section on maintenance).

Duties of a wife
m5.1 (Ref: 8, p525)
It is obligatory for a woman to let her husband have sex with her immediately when
(a) he asks her;
(b) at home (O: home meaning the place in which he is currently staying, even if being lent to him or rented);
(c) and she can physically endure it.
(d) (O: Another condition that should be added is that her marriage payment (mahr, def: m8) has been received or deferred to a term not yet expired.
As for when sex with her is not possible, such that having it would entail manifest harm to her, then she is not obliged to comply.)

If she asks him to wait, she is awaited, to a maximum of three days. (O: She does not ask to wait because of not having finished period or postnatal bleeding, for there is no physical harm entailed in her complying as she is, though if she fears that such foreplay with him will lead to actual copulation) A: which is unlawful under such circumstances), then she may refuse, as that is not obligatory). (n: w45 discusses wives’ other duties to husbands.)
m5.6 (Ibid, p526) wife must keep her private parts clean
The husband is entitled to insist that his wife undertake both the measures necessary for having sex with her such as the purificatory bath (ghusl) after her monthly period, and those necessary to full enjoyment of her such as the purificatory bath after major ritual impurity (janaba), shaving her private parts, and removing filth.
m10.4 (Ibid, p538) wife can’t leave home
The husband may forbid his wife to leave the home (O: because the hadith related by Bayhaqi that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,
“It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to allow someone into her husband’s house if he is opposed, or to go out if he is averse”).

But if one of her relatives dies, it is preferable to let her leave to visit them.
w45.1 (Ibid, p948) wife’s obligation
(Abu Ishaq Shirazi A woman is not obliged to serve her husband by baking, grinding flour, cooking, washing, or any other kind of service, because the marriage contract entails, for her part, only that she let him enjoy her sexually, and she is not obligated to do other than that. (A: Rather, it is considered sunna in our school for the wife to do the house work, and the husband (who is obliged to support her) to earn the living, since this is how the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) divided the work between Fatima and Ali (Allah be well pleased with them)) (al-Muhadhdhab fi fiqh al-Imam al-shafi’i (y125),2.68)

 

[Archived_Member_19]

Also you had been asked a question which you have not answered so far:

"Does God HATE its own creation?"

 

[azizrasul]

The Ummah has arrived. It’s been around for 100’s of years and counting. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It doesn’t need a bomb to do it. All that is required is for people to hear the message of Islam mainly thru the Qur’an. Over the last 2 months in the Masjid I attend, 2 new men have become Muslims. Praise be to Allah.

God tells us the things that we need to know in the Qur’an. The fact that asexual reproduction is not mentioned is neither here or there. What is important is that what is in the Qur’an regarding science are collectively accurate. Most of the Qur’an is not about science. I merely introduced the subject to show the power of the Qur’an and why people should accept it as many new Muslims are already doing.

why is Iran going crazy for nuclear power then?

The same question can be asked of India?

LOL... they are too vague to be called scientific statements..

To me they are crystal clear. The fact that the Qur’an tells us that a small drop of fertilizing fluid is needed to fertilize the egg which implants itself is not vague. It actually happens this way for successful pregnancies.

does Quran talk about exact orbit, velocity?

You fail to appreciate, in this example, that the Qur’an talks about an orbit (sun & moon) and go off on a tangent about things that God does not mention. The fact that u r examining things that r not in the Qur’an as a basis for argument shows u r putting ur head in the sand and refuse to look at what is there but look at things that r not there. Strange! Hmmm.

any layman knows that once a woman is pregnant the periods stop...so this is a layman statement that now her egg is in her womb..

But that’s not being discussed. I was pointing out the biological process of attachment of the egg. Again u refuse to discuss any issue that’s being presented and go off on a tangent.

how do you know that God told the Quran message to Muhammed?

Because Muhammad (peace be upon him) told us so. Also Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate and could not have told us the science that I am discussing and u r avoiding.

nothing can go on expanding

Yet again u r deliberately reading something else from the verse. The verse is simply telling us that the ‘universe’ is expanding. It’s not saying that it will expand forever. In fact the Qur’an tells us that it will retract.

The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.
Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:104

you can contact the Royal society of Science. They will be able to guide you on research

I don’t need to contact them. The above verse is enough. LOL. If I had given u the above verse before, u would probably not have mentioned about the Big Crunch. Here at least u have answered ur own question.

As far as your last post is concerned, again u r going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic. This smacks of desperation. I won’t be neatly sidetracked as u want me to be. I can easily answer ur copied\pasted stuff. Sorry, better luck next time. If u want answers, search the internet and ul get them, God willing.

 

[kds1980]

The Ummah has arrived. It’s been around for 100’s of years and counting. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It doesn’t need a bomb to do it. All that is required is for people to hear the message of Islam mainly thru the Qur’an. Over the last 2 months in the Masjid I attend, 2 new men have become Muslims. Praise be to Allah.

ISlam is the fastest growing religion because of high birth rates not because of conversions
It is plain lie to propagate that islam is fastest growing religion because of conversions.There are already reports of 6 millions africans leaving islam.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<I merely introduced the subject to show the power of the Qur’an and why people should accept it as many new Muslims are already doing.>>

my Quad core computer processes at very fast pace and i can crack complex codes with my programs....it knows all

bow to my computer !!!!!!!!!!!!

<<The same question can be asked of India?>>

india is not muslim state.... btw

you are side stepping the initial qn...u said that quran tells us all relevant scientific things...why it missed atomic energy...and if it is not in quran...why is Iran after it?


<<To me they are crystal clear. The fact that the Qur’an tells us that a small drop of fertilizing fluid is needed to fertilize the egg which implants itself is not vague. It actually happens this way for successful pregnancies.>>

every dumb caveman knew that if he ejaculated inside a woman...chances of her pregnancy increase,

anyone would deduce that its the fluid that makes babies..

do you know that the greek and roman physicians knew about this....heck why romans...4000 years ago early egyptian priests knew about cycles of pregnancy and here is an interesting link

Untitled

heck...they even knew abt contraceptives...

Quran doesnot talk abt contraceptives....LOL

or do you think they are not important?

i think Quran also talks against "wasting" semen (am not sure which sura)

<<You fail to appreciate, in this example, that the Qur’an talks about an orbit (sun & moon) and go off on a tangent about things that God does not mention. The fact that u r examining things that r not in the Qur’an as a basis for argument shows u r putting ur head in the sand and refuse to look at what is there but look at things that r not there. Strange! Hmmm.>>

are you a student of the great ostritch "Zakir Naik"?

YOU started pointing out that Quran has SCIENTIFIC truth

i pointed out(myself being a scientist) that what information is considered SCIENTIFIC information..(e.g calculations of velocity, distance etc...even if they were wrong)

Quran doesnot tell anything new...

some greek and roman philosophers believed that earth, moon and sun move in orbits...nothing path breaking...like maybe was known 1000 years before islam came

NASA - Sun-Earth Day - Technology Through Time - Greece


i said very clearly...yes Quran talks abt orbit...nothing new!!!

it just makes a vague statement...


let us not go to greatness of Quran...you made an assertion that Quran has scientific knwledge and TRUTHS

all i am proving is that it has just vague statements and mix of already existent knowledge.

now you say that i am going at tangent.....thank the greek for the concept of tangent... LOL

strange..innit?

<<But that’s not being discussed. I was pointing out the biological process of attachment of the egg. Again u refuse to discuss any issue that’s being presented and go off on a tangent.>>

already answered above..it was a vague statement..period

egyptian papyrus scrolls have better and detailed medical info.


<<Because Muhammad (peace be upon him) told us so. Also Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate and could not have told us the science that I am discussing and u r avoiding. >>

this goes against the basic logic...

basic logic of factual deduction is third party validation.

there is no third party proof to the fact the Quran was told by Allah to Muhammed

even if he was illiterate , it could have been palagarised from other known texts

he was a rich man...he could have hired ppl to write book for him...i have heard of a persian accomplice of Muhammed...Salman -al-farsi

he was a renowned philosopher, well versed in greek, persian science.... but was driven out of persia...

i am just throwing some assumptions as you want to drive home the logic that Muhammed was illiterate hence would not know science

<<As far as your last post is concerned, again u r going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic. This smacks of desperation. I won’t be neatly sidetracked as u want me to be. I can easily answer ur copied\pasted stuff. Sorry, better luck next time. If u want answers, search the internet and ul get them, God willing.>>

LOL

yes it might be copy pasted
you have no answers as what is written there is FACT

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<,ISlam is the fastest growing religion because of high birth rates not because of conversions
It is plain lie to propagate that islam is fastest growing religion because of conversions.There are already reports of 6 millions africans leaving islam.>>

its called harvest of souls


LOL

quran did not teach about condoms

 

[azizrasul]

ISlam is the fastest growing religion because of high birth rates not because of conversions

It is plain lie to propagate that islam is fastest growing religion because of conversions.There are already reports of 6 millions africans leaving islam.

The number of people converting to another religion is ISLAM. This is a FACT. There r 5 times as many going into ISLAM than any other religion. Christianity is second. Even non-Muslims are telling us that. If that was wrong why would they say that? If u don’t want to accept that then that’s up to u. Ostrich again.

india is not muslim state.... btw

Exactly, so why is it pursuing atomic bombs? Huh?

every dumb caveman knew that if he ejaculated inside a woman...chances of her pregnancy increase,

anyone would deduce that its the fluid that makes babies..

do you know that the greek and roman physicians knew about this....heck why romans...4000 years ago early egyptian priests knew about cycles of pregnancy and here is an interesting link

Yes but did they know that only a tiny portion of that liquid was required? That is the point that is being made which u r not recognizing. The web page link is too long. Can u pick out the point u r making.

Quran doesnot talk abt contraceptives....LOL

You consistently go at a tangent and avoid the discussion.

i pointed out(myself being a scientist)

Students usually tackle the subjects head while u r avoiding them. U can’t succeed in your exams in that way. Ur professors will c thru that like I’m doin’.

The other link u gave was to do with eclipses. I didn’t discuss that! If there is something there that u want 2 point out, plz repost.

egyptian papyrus scrolls have better and detailed medical info.

Plz tells us.

even if he was illiterate , it could have been palagarised from other known texts

So far u have said it all vague and proves nothing yet u now use the word plagiarize? There seems to be a contradiction here. Is it not a huge coincidence to pick and get ALL the sciences right in the Qur’an.

What evidence do u have that Salman al-Farsi wrote the Qur’an? Muhammad (peace be upon him) was poor and humble most of his life. Any wealth he had he gave to help the poor. There were many nights when he had hardly anything to eat and his family. His first wife was rich.

you have no answers as what is written there is FACT

I do have the answers, but will not be sidetracked by u and your games e.g. u said nothing about the collapsing universe. Hmmm I wonder why. Has the TRUTH struck home and u r simply in denial? Huh?

 

[kds1980]

The number of people converting to another religion is ISLAM. This is a FACT. There r 5 times as many going into ISLAM than any other religion. Christianity is second. Even non-Muslims are telling us that. If that was wrong why would they say that? If u don’t want to accept that then that’s up to u. Ostrich again.

azizrasul get out of your islamic world and start living in real world.The fact is that islam is growing because of higher birth rates.

Claims to be the fastest growing religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

islam

Data for Islam reveal that the growing number of Muslims is due primarily to the higher than average birth-rates and consequent population growths of Muslim countries and communities.
In 2006, countries with a Muslim majority had an average population growth rate of 1.8% per year (when weighted by percentage Muslim and population size).[7] This compares with a world population growth rate of 1.12% per year.[8]
According to the "Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life", Islam is already the fastest-growing religion in Europe. Driven by immigration and high birthrates, the number of Muslims on the continent has tripled in the last 30 years. Most demographers forecast a similar or even higher rate of growth in the coming decades.[9]
According to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, the World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated the six fastest growing religions of the world to be Islam (1.84%), the Bahá'í Faith (1.7%), Sikhism (1.62%), Jainism (1.57%), Hinduism (1.52%), and Christianity (1.32%), [10].

 

[Shaheediyan]

What exactly is the point of this discussion?

I thought inter-faith dialogue was about finding common ground - something which Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does so well without compromising the truth.

I don't see much Gurmat influenced discussion going on here, rather just a lot of offensive and disrespectful talk, not representative of Sikhi at all.

And Aziz Bhai Sahib, As Salaam Alaikum Wa Rahmat-Ullahi Wa Barakaatuh, it's nice that you are here trying to share your faith and understandings, but I fear you are wasting your breath as in order to have meaningful discussion, one must also show interest in and have respect for, the other parties beliefs.

 

[Astroboy]

Shaheediyan wrote, "I thought inter-faith dialogue was about finding common ground - something which Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does so well without compromising the truth."

I agree this this comment. Thank you, Shaheediyan.




This is a good place to delve about Creation in Sikhism.
http://www.sikhs.wellington.net.nz/Sikh_Religion.pdf

 

[azizrasul]

And Aziz Bhai Sahib, As Salaam Alaikum Wa Rahmat-Ullahi Wa Barakaatuh, it's nice that you are here trying to share your faith and understandings, but I fear you are wasting your breath as in order to have meaningful discussion, one must also show interest in and have respect for, the other parties beliefs.

If u read the entire thread, I have asked for info of a similar nature in the Sikh scriptures but very few Sikhs have come forward. That is not my fault. Also u say I am wasting my breath. How do u know? Perhaps some people who may read this thread in the future may gain something from it. Allah knows best.

As far as ISLAM as a growing religion, have a look at these (there all over the place): -

one two three four five six

I have even heard reports that some Dalgits are becoming Muslim and US soldiers as well. Praise be to Allah.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

LOL

shaheediyan

this man's posts reeks of contempt for other religions and hence is getting his worth back.

<<I don't see much Gurmat influenced discussion going on here, rather just a lot of offensive and disrespectful talk, not representative of Sikhi at all.>>

omeone makes illogical assertions to back and validate religious ststements and questions validity of SGGS, hence is getting back my ANALYSIS and not mud slinging

my apologies if i have crossed the line, but he wanted cold blooded ANALYSIS and i bl**dy well can do, if he wants, and he asked for it...

he wanted examples..i gave him examples...
he refuses to read those examples...his tough luck..


<<Exactly, so why is it pursuing atomic bombs? Huh?>>

i think you are going way beyond tangent...can you answers the basic Qn....why did Quran miss out on one of the most IMPORTANT science points(as stressed by Iran)...Atomic Science and Bomb?

you stress that Quran answered most "important" sciences, i donot find this one, but see most islamic states abosessed with it.

why is india making atomic bomb?

to exterminate any "crazy headed" threats. here's the answer in your face!!


<<Yes but did they know that only a tiny portion of that liquid was required? That is the point that is being made which u r not recognizing. The web page link is too long. Can u pick out the point u r making.>>

your assertion that Quran gave scientific REVELATIONS is wrong...it just put in facts already known

do you know, not even tiny portion is required...why didn't Quran be spot on abt
"one sperm" ?

it just stated knwn fact... and did anywhere the egyptian and greek texts say that "a tumbler full" of fluid is required?

no!!

<<You consistently go at a tangent and avoid the discussion.>>

why is it not linked...so do you think contraceptives are not "important" when Quran was showering us with scientific wisdom?


<<Students usually tackle the subjects head while u r avoiding them. U can’t succeed in your exams in that way. Ur professors will c thru that like I’m doin’.

The other link u gave was to do with eclipses. I didn’t discuss that! If there is something there that u want 2 point out, plz repost.>>

Aryabhatta and other indian astrologers could predict eclipse timings

this is not a new revelation


<
Quote:
egyptian papyrus scrolls have better and detailed medical info.
Plz tells us.>>

plz read it

these are old records, latest science books interest me more...

i am more happy listening to science from a 5 year old book rather than 1500 years old book.


<<So far u have said it all vague and proves nothing yet u now use the word plagiarize? There seems to be a contradiction here. Is it not a huge coincidence to pick and get ALL the sciences right in the Qur’an.>>

why not?

anyone making concerted effort can publish huge scientific reports...pretty accurate ones too

<<What evidence do u have that Salman al-Farsi wrote the Qur’an? Muhammad (peace be upon him) was poor and humble most of his life. Any wealth he had he gave to help the poor. There were many nights when he had hardly anything to eat and his family. His first wife was rich.>>

what evidence you have that God told Quran to Muhammed?



---------------

here is my simple line of discussion

i saw someone make a statement and deduction

quran is a perfect guide

quran tells us all that is required as important

quran has scientific facts which were unknown earlier

quran has other statements too

if quran's scientific "revelations", then other statements too are God's given and "absolute truth"
----------

what i have tried to present is

example how the scientific facts are vague and "already" knnown

expose the wrong deductive implication of a few scientific statements being used to validate a text.

---------

i might have sounded rude, but this is only way to cut through the hard headed.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

<<If u read the entire thread, I have asked for info of a similar nature in the Sikh scriptures but very few Sikhs have come forward. That is not my fault. Also u say I am wasting my breath. How do u know? Perhaps some people who may read this thread in the future may gain something from it. Allah knows best.>>

SGGS is a spiritual guide and not a scientific book, so please drop your expectations.

yes God knows best.