Islam Creation In Islam

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Sherab

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Even if the Qur'an is right on those matters - Arabics were great astrologers and astronomers anyways - it does not mean the spiritual fruits of Islam are correct. Just because they have scientific facts in the Qur'an - does not mean it was not edited at some later date, or compiled by others, or anything.

With that in mind, I have nothing to debate - anyone can realize the universe is expanding. And because the Qur'an holds scientific proof does not mean that Allah did indeed create it.

Fr example, anyone with some clairvoyance can recognize these things - and clairvoyance is not only applicable to God.
 

azizrasul

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To my knowledge it was only in the last century that the 3 fact I have given were first discovered. It was in 1929 that Edwin Hubble proved that the universe was expanding. It was in early 1920's that Alexander Friedmann first proved mathematically that the universe coukd have started with a bang.

The Qur'an has remained unchanged for 14 centuries.

It is these and other facts that have led many non Muslims to revert to Islam.
 

azizrasul

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Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:31

He does not love those mentioned here:
2:190,
2:276,
3:32,
3:57,
3:140,
4:36,
4:107,
4:148,
5:64,
5:87,
6:141,
7:31,
7:55
8:58,
16:33,
22:38,
28:76,
28:77,
30:45,
31:18,
42:40,
57:23,

And He Loves those mentioned here:
2:195,
2:222,
3:76,
3:134,
3:176,
3:148,
3:159,
5:13,
5:42,
5:93,
9:04,
9:07,
9:108,
49:09,
60:08,
61:06,
 

Astroboy

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Azizrasul,
Are you unsure about the answer? It wasn't a difficult question though? I find it to be a simple question, and I expected a simple answer.

My question was : does the Quran state anywhere that Allah loves all His creatures in his creation ? It is a simple question, Azizrasul.
 

azizrasul

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Aug 3, 2007
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Begum, you've quoted verses from the Qur'an many times, maybe you can answer your simple question yourself, that way u can move on.
 

kds1980

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To my knowledge it was only in the last century that the 3 fact I have given were first discovered. It was in 1929 that Edwin Hubble proved that the universe was expanding. It was in early 1920's that Alexander Friedmann first proved mathematically that the universe coukd have started with a bang.

The Qur'an has remained unchanged for 14 centuries.

It is these and other facts that have led many non Muslims to revert to Islam.

majority atheists have already refuted quranic science.
 

azizrasul

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Perhaps that's why they are and remain athiests! On what basis do they reject? What do u think about the verses given?
 

azizrasul

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Regarding the motion of the sun and the moon. The moon orbits the Earth, whilst the sun orbits the Milky Way galaxy approximately every 225 million years at a speed of 250 kilometres per second. Verse 21:33, below, shows that both celestial bodies have orbits and have their own motions (the sun and the moon rotate on their own axes).

“(God) is the One Who created the night, the day, the Sun and the Moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion.”
Qur’an - Surah al-Anbiyaa (The Prophets) 21:33 See also 36:40.

The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed.
Qur’an - Surah ar-Rahman (The Beneficent) 55:5

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He coils (kawwara) the night upon the day and He coils (kawwara) the day upon the night." He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?
Qur’an – Surah az-Zumar (The Groups) 39:5

The sun is a source of light, while the moon reflects it.

It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.
Qur’an - Surah Yunus (Jonah) 10:5 See also 25:61 and 71:16

38. And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.
39. And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.
40. It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).
Qur’an – Surah Yasin 36:38-40 See also 57:6.
 

kds1980

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Perhaps that's why they are and remain athiests! On what basis do they reject? What do u think about the verses given?

just type scientific errors in quran in google and you will find on what basis they are rejecting quranic. science
 

kds1980

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i personaly beleive there is no science in quran.If quran was really so scientific then why most of the scientific discoveries were done by europeans.arabs should had been in fore front of scientific revolution.
verses can be interpretted in many ways
only a non biased arabic scholar can tell whether there is science quran or not.nut the problem is there is no person on earth to whom you can call non biased.
 

Astroboy

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how can u claim to know islam when u dont know how to answer such a simple Question ? Here is my question again : Does it state in the Quran that Allah loves all the creatures of HIS creation ?

Azizrasul, you can claim to be an Engineer which does expect you to think rationally and logically as an individual. First you threw the statements back to me that I copy and paste materials.

Azizrasul, here I am now, not doing that but asking you to think for yourself that if Allah did create this expanding universe as stated in the Quran, does Allah love all the creatures of HIS creation?
 

Sherab

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how can u claim to know islam when u dont know how to answer such a simple Question ? Here is my question again : Does it state in the Quran that Allah loves all the creatures of HIS creation ?

Azizrasul, you can claim to be an Engineer which does expect you to think rationally and logically as an individual. First you threw the statements back to me that I copy and paste materials.

Azizrasul, here I am now, not doing that but asking you to think for yourself that if Allah did create this expanding universe as stated in the Quran, does Allah love all the creatures of HIS creation?
The answer, is no. He hates some people who reject is Dharma.

Second, even if he does "love" them - he hates their actions which arise from the person. Hypocritical.
 

cherylyoung

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Aug 5, 2007
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Re: Creation in Islam >>love

I agree with post #57816 that even if the Qur'an has accurate scientific facts, it does not mean the spiritual fruits of Islam are correct.

Furthermore, regarding the question of whether the Qur'an states anywhere that Allah loves all His creatures in His creation...and
Azizrasul's citation list in post #57818, I can only conclude that Allah does not love all His creatures in His creation.

Although I am not a Muslim, as best as I could, I categorized the citations in Azizrasul's list of ayah from the Qur'anwhich indicate that Allah only loves these individuals:


Allah loves the righteous (2:195; 3:134; 3:148 ..
Allah loves the pious (3:76; 5:13; 9:4; )
Allah loves the just (5:42; 49:9; 60;8 ..
Allah loves the dutiful 9:7
Allah loves the clean and pure 9:108

Allah loves those who persevere 3:146
Allah loves those who put their trust in Him 3:159

And.....Allah loves those who kill for Him.....
Perhaps Azizrasul would comment further on the meaning of ayah 61:4 --- to qitl/kill (fight in mortal combat) in the cause of Allah.

Yusuf Ali translation:
[61:4] Truly God loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

Transliteration:
[61:4] Inna Allaha yuhibbu allatheena yuqatiloona fee sabeelihi saffan kaannahum bunyanun marsoosun

Arabic (from right to left):
61:4 ان الله يحب الذين يقاتلون في سبيله صفا كانهم بنيان مرصوص
.
.
 
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Astroboy

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I hope I am making myself clear to you guys, Allah is not a trademark of Islam. Some even go to the extent by saying that the Quran has nothing to do with being a Muslim. But I don't agree with the latter.

In Gurbani, the following shabad, mentions the word "Allah" and relevant to this topic of Creation:
(pMnw 1349-19)

parbhaatee kabeer jee-o.
Parbhaatee Kabeer Jee-o

aval alah noor upaa-i-aa kudrat kay sabh banday.
First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.

ayk noor tay sabh jag upji-aa ka-un bhalay ko manday. ||1||
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1||

logaa bharam na bhoolahu bhaa-ee.
O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.

khaalik khalak khalak meh khaalik poor rahi-o sarab thaaN-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o.
The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. ||1||Pause||

maatee ayk anayk bhaaNt kar saajee saajanhaarai.
The clay is the same, but the Fashioner has fashioned it in various ways.

naa kachh poch maatee kay bhaaNday naa kachh poch kumbhaarai. ||2||
There is nothing wrong with the pot of clay - there is nothing wrong with the Potter. ||2||

sabh meh sachaa ayko so-ee tis kaa kee-aa sabh kachh ho-ee.
The One True Lord abides in all; by His making, everything is made.

hukam pachhaanai so ayko jaanai bandaa kahee-ai so-ee. ||3||
Whoever realizes the Hukam of His Command, knows the One Lord. He alone is said to be the Lord's slave. ||3||

alhu alakh na jaa-ee lakhi-aa gur gurh deenaa meethaa.
The Lord Allah is Unseen; He cannot be seen. The Guru has blessed me with this sweet molasses.

kahi kabeer mayree sankaa naasee sarab niranjan deethaa. ||4||3||
Says Kabeer, my anxiety and fear have been taken away; I see the Immaculate Lord pervading everywhere. ||4||3||
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh
Quote:
There are some Muslims who say that this version of Holy Kuran is only 1/3rd.Anyway das is more with you that what we have is OK.


Never heard that before. What evidence do you have for that?


Quote:
have a look.


Vijaydeep Singh where does this come from. Is this from the Sikh scriptures? If so, can you give me a reference or a web page giving only the English version? Thanks.

brother!

As per shi-s.We have 1/3rd lost but das thinks it not OK.

for verse go to srigranth.org and ask for page/ang 1165.

Allah Hafiz.
 

azizrasul

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Aug 3, 2007
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just type scientific errors in quran in google and you will find on what basis they are rejecting quranic. science
OK give me 1 example from the hits u get and we can discuss. If I do that, then u might accuse me of picking something that is convenient.


i personaly beleive there is no science in quran.If quran was really so scientific then why most of the scientific discoveries were done by europeans.arabs should had been in fore front of scientific revolution.
verses can be interpretted in many ways
only a non biased arabic scholar can tell whether there is science quran or not.nut the problem is there is no person on earth to whom you can call non biased
Does it matter who made the scientific discoveries? Science belongs to all. After all, the fact that non Muslims have done it only shows their independence from Islam and the Qur’an making the Qur’anic verses on science even more interesting.
You say that verses can be interpreted in many ways but offer no alternative interpretation. Dr. Maurice Bucaille was not a Muslim (and may not even be now) who made these discoveries. Surely that gives a level of non bias.

how can u claim to know islam
I don’t claim to know everything about Islam, just as I’m sure u don’t know everything about Sikhism. I’m concentrating on Science & the Qur’an. Again, I repeat, GET WITH IT.


I agree with post #57816 that even if the Qur'an has accurate scientific facts, it does not mean the spiritual fruits of Islam are correct.
But so far I have not seen anything on this thread that gives any meaningful insight to creation in the Sikh scriptures, in fact there seems a lack of input from the Sikhs to come forward. If u guys are saying that Islam cannot be authentic when science and Qur’an are matching, how can anyone take Sikhism seriously or believed as authentic when it gives no such evidence. If I want to be a follower of a religion, I want proof of it’s authenticity. I don’t want to follow it blindly. It’s like the blind leading the blind.


See www.tafsir.com to see what the interpretation of the verse is. I want to avoid getting involved in issues outside the scope of the thread as the point of the thread simply vanishes, which is the game that begum consistently plays. So if I don’t pursue this line of debate, it is because I want to stick to the subject at hand.


First, Allah created the Light; then, by His Creative Power, He made all mortal beings.
According to science, light didn’t appear until later. The first aspect of creation of the universe was from a particle blowing apart and producing a gas filled space. The reason why there was a gaseous ‘atmosphere’ was due to the high temperatures that the bang produced. From this gas light appears as the temperatures cool down. According to the Qur’an, Allah first creates the particle from which everything began, followed by the ‘smoke’ filled universe. Light follows thereafter. Science & Qur’an match perfectly in harmony. What does the Hindu scriptures say about creation of the universe?

Azizrasul, you can claim to be an Engineer which does expect you to think rationally and logically as an individual.
When did I say I was an ‘Engineer’? As far as rational and logic are concerned, u seem to be doing a good job.:}{}{}:


As per shi-s.We have 1/3rd lost but das thinks it not OK.
Do the Shias accept the verses I have given? There are Shias who agree we have all the Qur’an. Vast majority of Muslims say this. What do you think about the verses I have given? das?


I have to say, that I’m a bit disappointed that no 1 has really in all honesty challenged the Qur’anic verses in any way, thus far. Saying that google produces this and that just not enough. The Google search engine only produces stuff that people have written. The fact that no one has posted anything that disproves the Qur’anic verses shows that the contributors of this thread are by no means convinced of their own water downed arguments. By all means post something that we can discuss from the Google search. Hope things will change or future readers of this thread may point out that I was saying something useful but the Sikhs had no real answers.
 
Jul 30, 2004
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Gurfateh

Das is not challenging the verse given by you as das feels that all is from Allah and all goes back to Allah.

did not Allah only created Kuran?


Can not Samad(indepenadant) Allah destroy it?

Is Holy Kuran above Allah or Allah above holy Kuran?

Das does challenges any one for not about Truth or falsehood in Holy Kuran but to prove that Holy Kuran is power full then Allah or Allah is bounded by Holy Kuran.

Soory for emotion lines.Allah ho Akabar.(Allah the Biggest).
 

azizrasul

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Sorry vijaydeep Singh, didn't quite understand entirely all u said. Don't understand the 'das' u use. Is this short for something.

Allah, Most Sublime, All Knowing, All Seeing is the author of the Qur'an, hence the Qur'an cannot be above Allah, Most Great.
 

kds1980

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OK give me 1 example from the hits u get and we can discuss. If I do that, then u might accuse me of picking something that is convenient.

i am just giving a part of one article which mentions scientific errors in quran.

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http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Avijit31021.htm
When his obdurate, obstinate and bigoted approach pushed me to my limit, I was compelled to write this essay. My contention was quite simple: if we read carefully, we surely note that those ancient religious scriptures were composed at a time when the humanity had a very limited understanding of scientific knowledge. One cannot legitimately expect to find the complex theories of ‘Big-Bang’, 'Super String', 'Relativity' etc. in the pages of those dated Holy Books. In reality, the contents of those primitive books reflected the sheer backwardness prevalent in the contemporary society; their thoughts, belief, hopes and despair; nothing more than that and nothing less. Let me illustrate with an example: when the holy Qur’an was composed (a better word is compiled, I should emphasize), the eminent scientists like Galileo, Bruno, Copernicus, et.al were not even born. How could the people of that primeval period even think of an earth, revolving around our sun? Nay, they could never comprehend this, as they were familiar only with the sun rising in the east and then setting in the west; the rising of the moon at the onset of night. These are the phenomena they have observed since their birth. God controls these heavenly objects, they thought. That certain laws of physics govern the progress of these celestial bodies, they could never comprehend. This is what is accurately reflected in many verses of the Qur’an, Hadis, Vedas and the Bible. Consider this verse from Sura Luqman (31:29) from the holy Qur’an [15]:



Hast thou not seen how Allah causeth the night to pass into the day and causeth the day to pass into the night, and hath subdued the sun and the moon (to do their work), each running unto an appointed term; and that Allah is Informed of what ye do?



In this verse Allah clearly says that he is the one who converts the day into night and vice versa; subjected the sun and the moon to follow a fixed orbit. We find many similar verses elsewhere in the Qur’an as well. Here are a few samples: Sura Ya-Sin (36:38), Sura Az-Zumar (39:5), Sura Al-Rad (13:2), Sura Al-Anbiya (21:33), Sura Al-Baqara (2:258), Sura Al-Kahf (18:86), Sura Ta-Ha (20:130), just to name a few. However, even a thorough, painstaking search of the entire Qur’an does not show a single verse anywhere in it that supports the scientific reality of the rotation of earth. According to Allah, the earth is motionless, completely static. Period.

In Sura An-Naml (27:61) it is stated clearly:

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not!

In the same vein, Sura Al-Rum (30:25), Sura Fatir (35:41), Sura Luqman (31:10), Sura Al-Baqara (2:22), Sura An-Nahl (16:15) exhorts the Allah’s decree that the earth is completely immovable.

Since the previously mentioned scholar was absolutely certain that the Qur’an contains all the scientific principles, with due respect, I earnestly requested him to show me a verse, just a single verse in the Qur’an that states that the earth moves round the sun; or that the earth rotates on its own axis, at the least. ‘I shall accept all your contentions, for sure, if you can show me such a verse’, I wrote. The Arabic word for earth is ‘Ard’ and the Arabic word for rotation is ‘Falak’. ‘Please show a just a single verse in the Qur’an that uses the two words ‘Ard’ and ‘Falak’ side by side’, I insisted.

He could not show me a single verse to that effect.


Of course, he could never succeed; I knew this from the very beginning. How could he succeed when it is totally certain that there is no such verse/s in the Qur’an as I had already elaborated? People of that era did not have the knowledge to calculate the speeds and periods of diurnal and annual rotations of the earth. The transition from the ‘Geo-Centric’ concept of the earth of Ptolemy to Copernicus’ ‘Helio-Centric’ universe took a long time to hold. People during Muhammad’s time had the slightest clue as to the mystery ‘where do the sun go at night?’ They had no idea on sun’s movement, to say the least. The sun really proceeds to a far-off place to take rest—this was their notion about the setting of the sun. The learned readers will have no trouble in finding this truth out by simply gleaning through the Sura dealing with Zul-Karnain (18:86):

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

How is it possible for Allah to commit such a humongous blunder—come to think of it! Have our learned Islamic scholars, searching endlessly for ‘Big-Bang’, ‘Super String’, etc. in the Qur’an has ever seriously pondered on it? How could Allah think that the sun must have a resting place of its own! How could we accept the Qur’an as a ‘Book of Sciene’? Shall we not consider it a book of comic, instead?

Many readers may not be aware that the 'Muslim World' considers Muhammad to be the greatest scientist, thinker and philosopher that Allah ever created. Now, think about the funny answer, this ‘greatest’ creator of science gave when people questioned him: Where does the sun hang about at night? In a conversation with one of his companions (Abu Dhar), Muhammad claimed that the sun ‘prostrates’ under the throne of Allah for the entire night and seeks His permission to go to its usual work in the morning! Let us read this hadis [15]:

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 326:

Narrated Abu Dharr:

Once I was with the Prophet in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah's) Throne; and that is Allah's Statement:--

'And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (decreed). And that is the decree of All-Mighty, the All-Knowing....' (36.38)



It will be foolhardy to assume that those erudite scholars making desperate attempts to demonstrate science in ancient scriptures are not aware of those laughable verses. Surely, they are very much aware of them (verses). With full knowledge, they deliberately confuse the gullible people. This is exactly where I have severe objection. My response to this Islamic scholar did create some stir among many readers. Many progressive web-sites duly published my essay and even one threw a challenge to the fundamentalist Mullahs under the heading, ‘Avijit Roy challenges the fundamentalists.’ This challenge still stands in the cyber world [2]. So far, no Islamic scholar could refute my assertions by citing the appropriate verses from the Qur’an.
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kds1980

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Does it matter who made the scientific discoveries? Science belongs to all. After all, the fact that non Muslims have done it only shows their independence from Islam and the Qur’an making the Qur’anic verses on science even more interesting.
You say that verses can be interpreted in many ways but offer no alternative interpretation. Dr. Maurice Bucaille was not a Muslim (and may not even be now) who made these discoveries. Surely that gives a level of non bias.

We all know that islamic countries have billions of petro dollars.how could we so sure that
That dr. maurice bucaille was not bribed.Do you think that this world is really so simple

As far as scientific discoveries are concerned it is yeh it clearly matters.today western world has made scientific discoveries that's why you peole want to associate with them.
If quran is really so scientific then how is it possible that after reading and analysing quran for 1200 years islamic scholars were unable to discover that earth is round, bing bang theory etctheory.
 
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