Concepts Of The Divine Mother In Sikhism

[namjiwankaur]

Namaste,

I am aware that Sikhism is monotheistic and considers the Supreme Being beyond form. That being said, I have come across a few websites about Sikhs who consider the Divine their Mother and Father. Is there a way to be close to the Divine Maternal in Sikhism? I do not mean to worship God shaped like a woman, but God as maternal or motherly?

One reason I ask is the tendency for most religions to refer to God as "He" and "Father" and most will say it doesn't refer to gender, but it is a patriarchal response to God to say its ok to refer to God as "He" and "Father", but not "She" and "Mother". It is more than a subtle referral to a masculine God.

As my relationship with The Divine deepens, I find myself relating to Her more as Mother. Here is how I wrote the Mool Mantra and I want to ask if my using both pronouns (He and She vs. the insistence that the royal pronoun should be masculine) would be viewed as offensive or against Sikh teachings.

There is only One God
Truth is Her/His Name
She/He is the Creator
She/He is without fear
She/He is without hate
She/He is timeless and without form
She/He is beyond birth and death
the Enlightened One
She/He can be known by the Guru's Grace


Looking forward to your responses!
J.
:motherlylove:

 

[spnadmin]

There is a famous tuk in gurbani which describes the divine as mother and father. But the point we must take is that the divine is both sargun and nirgun. In sargun form the divine takes on the attributes of all of creation. This includes both male and female. As nirgun, the divine has no forum and is therefore neither male or female.


You are my father, You are my mother. But more as the kirtan continues you will see the diivine called brother, cousin, and friend.

Here is the gurbani kirtan with the shabad that I mentioned. The divine is everything, and the divine is no thing at all.

YouTube - TU MERA PITA TU MERA MAATA | Read along with Bhai Surinder Singh Ji Jodhpuri | Shabad Kirtan

 

[namjiwankaur]

Thanks for answering my question. Your response was worded so beautifully. I like the video. I'm a Youtube addict anyway, but I love most watching and listening to spiritual topics and music there.

:happykaur:

 

[Archived_member15]

There is a famous tuk in gurbani which describes the divine as mother and father. But the point we must take is that the divine is both sargun and nirgun. In sargun form the divine takes on the attributes of all of creation. This includes both male and female. As nirgun, the divine has no forum and is therefore neither male or female.


You are my father, You are my mother. But more as the kirtan continues you will see the diivine called brother, cousin, and friend.

Here is the gurbani kirtan with the shabad that I mentioned. The divine is everything, and the divine is no thing at all.

YouTube - TU MERA PITA TU MERA MAATA | Read along with Bhai Surinder Singh Ji Jodhpuri | Shabad Kirtan

I was searching through old SPN threads when I found this phrase of yours, dear brother/sister:

The divine is everything, and the divine is no thing at all.


WOW! Amen! THAT is exactly what I believe too. I am ever amazed by the underlying unity between all religions. I am so in awe of the fact that my religious tradition and your religious tradition has led both of us to exactly the same conclusion, the grasping of the same Truth.


BTW Since I've hijacked a thread on Divine Motherhood :grinningkaur:

I'll attach a quote:


"...It should be known, then, that God nurtures and caresses the soul, after it has been resolutely converted to his service, like a loving mother who warms her child with the heat of her bosom, nurses it with good milk and tender food, and carries and caresses it in her arms. But as the child grows older, the mother withholds her caresses and hides her tender love; she rubs bitter aloes on her sweet breast and sets the child down from her arms, letting it walk on its own feet so that it may put aside the habits of childhood and grow accustomed to greater and more important things. The grace of God acts just as a loving mother by re-engendering in the soul new enthusiasm and fervor in the service of God. With no effort on the soul's part, this grace causes it to taste sweet and delectable milk and to experience intense satisfaction in the performance of spiritual exercises, because God is handing the breast of his tender love to the soul, just as if it were a delicate child..."

- Saint John of the Cross (1542 – 1591), Catholic mystic and Doctor of the Church

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

If God is anything like my mother then I would prepare yourselves to be slapped hard.

 

[Archived_member15]

If God is anything like my mother then I would prepare yourselves to be slapped hard.

motherlylove

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

Namaste,

I am aware that Sikhism is monotheistic and considers the Supreme Being beyond form. That being said, I have come across a few websites about Sikhs who consider the Divine their Mother and Father. Is there a way to be close to the Divine Maternal in Sikhism? I do not mean to worship God shaped like a woman, but God as maternal or motherly?

One reason I ask is the tendency for most religions to refer to God as "He" and "Father" and most will say it doesn't refer to gender, but it is a patriarchal response to God to say its ok to refer to God as "He" and "Father", but not "She" and "Mother". It is more than a subtle referral to a masculine God.

As my relationship with The Divine deepens, I find myself relating to Her more as Mother. Here is how I wrote the Mool Mantra and I want to ask if my using both pronouns (He and She vs. the insistence that the royal pronoun should be masculine) would be viewed as offensive or against Sikh teachings.

There is only One God
Truth is Her/His Name
She/He is the Creator
She/He is without fear
She/He is without hate
She/He is timeless and without form
She/He is beyond birth and death
the Enlightened One
She/He can be known by the Guru's Grace


Looking forward to your responses!
J.
:motherlylove:

In your message lies the correct understanding of the word "GuRoo"
We can see that this word GuRoo can be written as <GuRu.GuRu> wherein one GuRu word is for Masculine and other GuRu word is for Feminine character of the CREATOR.
Thus there is no offensive in Sikh Teachings.
Sikh teachings are very much perfect.

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

From Gurbanee we learn that Sikhs have to Worship "SATiGuRu" only.
By worshiping SATi GuRu ..Masculine as well as feminine both Genders are taken care of.

Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Luckysingh]

I think that unlike other religions where we can have gods and godesses either male/female in Sikhism we only regard and worship the ONE god.
That God is neither masculine or feminine.
So the realization of the Truth in everything, which is what we try to see in all is itself of no gender.
The Satguru- the true guru, as Prakashji has stated above is of no gender.
This is of more importance even if we interpret masculine references such as he or him.

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

We can look for Divine Mother as well as Divine Father in Gurbanee quote as

ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਮਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਪਿਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਲਕ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਸਾਰ ਕਰੇ ਹਮ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਬਾਲਕ ॥ ਸਹਜੇ ਸਹਜਿ ਖਿਲਾਇਦਾ ਨਹੀ ਕਰਦਾ ਆਲਕ ॥ ਅਉਗਣੁ ਕੋ ਨ ਚਿਤਾਰਦਾ ਗਲ ਸੇਤੀ ਲਾਇਕ ॥ ਮੁਹਿ ਮੰਗਾਂ ਸੋਈ ਦੇਵਦਾ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਇਕ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਨੁ ਸਉਪਿਓਨੁ ਇਸੁ ਸਉਦੇ ਲਾਇਕ ॥ ਸਾਝੀ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲਿ ਬਹਾਲਿਆ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਇਕ ॥ ਮੈ ਨਾਲਹੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵਿਛੁੜੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਸਭਨਾ ਗਲਾ ਲਾਇਕ ॥੨੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1101}

Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

From Gurbanee we also learn that Divine Mother and Divine Father both are aleays with us.In Gurbanee the reference for Mother is "MAT(i)" and the reference for Father is
"SANTOKH(u)".
This is very important message in context of Mother and Father refered in Gurbanee.

Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Archived_member15]

"...Become a fertile ground for the divine birth. Cherish this deep silence within, nourish it frequently...May God help us to prepare a dwelling place for this noble birth [of the Divine in us], so that we may all attain spiritual motherhood..."

- Johannes Tauler (c.1300-1361), Catholic mystic




Perhaps it is we ourselves who are to become Mothers, giving birth to the Divine Spark of the Godhead within ourselves through opening our hearts up to the Will of God and burning away the dross of self-will, rather than searching for Motherhood in God?



Just a thought - kind of turns it on its head icecreamkaur

 

[Astroboy]

"...Become a fertile ground for the divine birth. Cherish this deep silence within, nourish it frequently...May God help us to prepare a dwelling place for this noble birth [of the Divine in us], so that we may all attain spiritual motherhood..."

- Johannes Tauler (c.1300-1361), Catholic mystic




Perhaps it is we ourselves who are to become Mothers, giving birth to the Divine Spark of the Godhead within ourselves through opening our hearts up to the Will of God and burning away the dross of self-will, rather than searching for Motherhood in God?



Just a thought - kind of turns it on its head icecreamkaur

Saints are void of egotism. Instead they are humble in their expressions as well.

In Gauri Sukhmani M.5 Page 266 Line 7

<table cellspacing="5" height="830" width="503"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਸਗਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
सगल पुरख महि पुरखु प्रधानु ॥
Sagal purakẖ mėh purakẖ parḏẖān.
Among all persons, the supreme person is the one
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਮਿਟੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
साधसंगि जा का मिटै अभिमानु ॥
Sāḏẖsang jā kā mitai abẖimān.
who gives up his egotistical pride in the Company of the Holy.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਜੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਨੀਚਾ ॥
आपस कउ जो जाणै नीचा ॥
Āpas ka▫o jo jāṇai nīcẖā.
One who sees himself as lowly,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੋਊ ਗਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ॥
सोऊ गनीऐ सभ ते ऊचा ॥
So▫ū ganī▫ai sabẖ ṯe ūcẖā.
shall be accounted as the highest of all.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਾ ਕਾ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਗਲ ਕੀ ਰੀਨਾ ॥
जा का मनु होइ सगल की रीना ॥
Jā kā man ho▫e sagal kī rīnā.
One whose mind is the dust of all,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤਿਨਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਚੀਨਾ ॥
हरि हरि नामु तिनि घटि घटि चीना ॥
Har har nām ṯin gẖat gẖat cẖīnā.
recognizes the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, in each and every heart.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਨ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਤੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਮਿਟਾਨਾ ॥
मन अपुने ते बुरा मिटाना ॥
Man apune ṯe burā mitānā.
One who eradicates cruelty from within his own mind,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪੇਖੈ ਸਗਲ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਾਜਨਾ ॥
पेखै सगल स्रिसटि साजना ॥
Pekẖai sagal sarisat sājnā.
looks upon all the world as his friend.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੂਖ ਦੂਖ ਜਨ ਸਮ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
सूख दूख जन सम द्रिसटेता ॥
Sūkẖ ḏūkẖ jan sam ḏaristeṯā.
One who looks upon pleasure and pain as one and the same,
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਨਹੀ ਲੇਪਾ ॥੬॥
नानक पाप पुंन नही लेपा ॥६॥
Nānak pāp punn nahī lepā. ||6||
O Nanak, is not affected by sin or virtue. ||6||
</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

There are two very special properties of THe Creator if any one is gifted then there can be no harm in any circumstances good/bad..favourable/unfavourable.
These two properties are the Quality of being NIRBHAu and Quality of being NIRVAIRu
Only rares and graced can acquire these qualities.No one can really beat a person with such qualities.
Gurbanee i gives great opprtunity to Sikhs for acquisition of Such qualities.
Such a person is obviously NEUTRAL and free from Duality of thoughts.
Prakash.s.Bagga

 

[Archived_member15]

That is a stunning passage from the Granth, Astro brother, thank you very much.

What a wonderful reflection on humility. In Christianity it is said to be the king of the virtues.


"...Some people are proud by nature, and they could never be brought low in humility to such a degree or so covertly. And humility is the true beginning of all virtue...Without a doubt it happens that, when the good and loyal servant is led into the joy of his Lord, he becomes drunk from the limitless overabundance of God's house. What happens to a drunken man happens to him, though it cannot really be described, that he so forgets his self that he is not at all his self and consequently has got rid of his self completely and lost himself entirely in God, becoming one spirit in all ways with him, just as a small drop of water does which has been dropped into a large amount of wine. Just as the drop of water loses itself, drawing the taste and colour of the wine to and into itself, so it happens that those who are in full possession of blessedness lose all human desires in an inexpressible manner, and they ebb away from themselves and are immersed completely in the Divine Will. Otherwise, if something of the individual were to remain of which he or she were not completely emptied, scripture could not be true in stating that God shall become all things in all things. Certainly one's being remains, but in a different form, in a different resplendence, and in a different power. This is all the result of total detachment from self..."


- Blessed Henry Suso (c. 1300 - 1366), Catholic mystic

Saints are void of egotism. Instead they are humble in their expressions as well.

In Gauri Sukhmani M.5 Page 266 Line 7

<TABLE cellSpacing=5 width=503 height=830><TBODY><TR></TR><TR><TD>ਸਗਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਪ੍ਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
सगल पुरख महि पुरखु प्रधानु ॥
Sagal purakẖ mėh purakẖ parḏẖān.
Among all persons, the supreme person is the one


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਜਾ ਕਾ ਮਿਟੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ॥
साधसंगि जा का मिटै अभिमानु ॥
Sāḏẖsang jā kā mitai abẖimān.
who gives up his egotistical pride in the Company of the Holy.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਆਪਸ ਕਉ ਜੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਨੀਚਾ ॥
आपस कउ जो जाणै नीचा ॥
Āpas ka▫o jo jāṇai nīcẖā.
One who sees himself as lowly,


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸੋਊ ਗਨੀਐ ਸਭ ਤੇ ਊਚਾ ॥
सोऊ गनीऐ सभ ते ऊचा ॥
So▫ū ganī▫ai sabẖ ṯe ūcẖā.
shall be accounted as the highest of all.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਜਾ ਕਾ ਮਨੁ ਹੋਇ ਸਗਲ ਕੀ ਰੀਨਾ ॥
जा का मनु होइ सगल की रीना ॥
Jā kā man ho▫e sagal kī rīnā.
One whose mind is the dust of all,


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤਿਨਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਚੀਨਾ ॥
हरि हरि नामु तिनि घटि घटि चीना ॥
Har har nām ṯin gẖat gẖat cẖīnā.
recognizes the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, in each and every heart.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਮਨ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਤੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਮਿਟਾਨਾ ॥
मन अपुने ते बुरा मिटाना ॥
Man apune ṯe burā mitānā.
One who eradicates cruelty from within his own mind,


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਪੇਖੈ ਸਗਲ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਾਜਨਾ ॥
पेखै सगल स्रिसटि साजना ॥
Pekẖai sagal sarisat sājnā.
looks upon all the world as his friend.


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਸੂਖ ਦੂਖ ਜਨ ਸਮ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟੇਤਾ ॥
सूख दूख जन सम द्रिसटेता ॥
Sūkẖ ḏūkẖ jan sam ḏaristeṯā.
One who looks upon pleasure and pain as one and the same,


</TD></TR><TR><TD>ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਨਹੀ ਲੇਪਾ ॥੬॥
नानक पाप पुंन नही लेपा ॥६॥
Nānak pāp punn nahī lepā. ||6||
O Nanak, is not affected by sin or virtue. ||6||


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Archived_member15]

"...I once had a dream. I dreamt that I, even though a man, was pregnant, pregnant and full with Nothingness like a woman is with child. And that out of this Nothingness, God was born...The being and the nature of God are mine; Jesus enters the castle of the soul; the spark in the soul is beyond time and space; the soul’s light is uncreated and cannot be created, it takes possession of God with no mediation; the core of the soul and the core of God are one...We are all meant to be mothers of God. What good is it to me if this eternal birth of the divine Son takes place unceasingly, but does not take place within myself? And, what good is it to me if Mary is full of grace if I am not also full of grace? What good is it to me for the Creator to give birth to his Son if I do not also give birth to him in my time and my culture? This, then, is the fullness of time: When the Son of Man is born in us..."

- Meister Eckhart (1260-1328), Catholic mystic and Dominican priest






"...The body is like Mary. Each of us has a Jesus inside, but so long as no pain appears, our Jesus is not born. If pain never comes, our Jesus goes back to his place of origin on the same secret path he had come, and we remain behind, deprived and without a share of him..."

- Jalaluddin Rumi (1207 – 1273), Islamic Sufi mystic




Rumi and Eckhart, these two great contemporary mystics of the Christian West and the Islamic East, who never met - divided as they were by country, nationality, geography, religion, language and culture - both came to realize through their spiritual experiences the same salient truth: We all must become spiritual mothers, we all must become Mary the Mother of Jesus, giving birth to a Jesus within ourselves, in the spark of our soul, and this is born only through the pain of sacrificing our own will and joining ourselves to the Will of God - just as Jesus did, as he gave up his life on the cross. What does it matter that Jesus was born in a stable 2,000 years ago, if he is not born in you today, in the here and now?


We all have inside of us a Jesus, or a Buddha or a Guru Nanak or a Krishna.


The question is: Will you give birth to him within yourself, or not? <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

[Astroboy]

Vouthon Ji,

Enjoy this video of
Hari Haran-Leslie Lewis

Hari Haran-Leslie Lewis Magic Of Krishna - YouTube

 

[prakash.s.bagga]

From a quote we can learn that the Universe is within our body as

ਪੀਪਾ ॥ ਕਾਯਉ ਦੇਵਾ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਦੇਵਲ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਜੰਗਮ ਜਾਤੀ ॥ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਨਈਬੇਦਾ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਪੂਜਉ ਪਾਤੀ ॥੧॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਖੰਡ ਖੋਜਤੇ ਨਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਨਾ ਕਛੁ ਆਇਬੋ ਨਾ ਕਛੁ ਜਾਇਬੋ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਦੁਹਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੇ ਸੋਈ ਪਿੰਡੇ ਜੋ ਖੋਜੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਪੀਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਤਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹੋਇ ਲਖਾਵੈ ॥੨॥੩॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 695}
So we are always directed to search within ourselves.
Prakash.S.Bagga

 

[findingmyway]

Moderation note: When quoting Gurbani please also provide English translation for the benefit of readers who cannot read Gurmukhi. This is in accordance with SPN's TOS. I notice many members have become slack recently.
Thanks

 

[Archived_member15]

From a quote we can learn that the Universe is within our body as

ਪੀਪਾ ॥ ਕਾਯਉ ਦੇਵਾ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਦੇਵਲ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਜੰਗਮ ਜਾਤੀ ॥ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਧੂਪ ਦੀਪ ਨਈਬੇਦਾ ਕਾਇਅਉ ਪੂਜਉ ਪਾਤੀ ॥੧॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਬਹੁ ਖੰਡ ਖੋਜਤੇ ਨਵ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਨਾ ਕਛੁ ਆਇਬੋ ਨਾ ਕਛੁ ਜਾਇਬੋ ਰਾਮ ਕੀ ਦੁਹਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੇ ਸੋਈ ਪਿੰਡੇ ਜੋ ਖੋਜੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਪੀਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਣਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਤਤੁ ਹੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਹੋਇ ਲਖਾਵੈ ॥੨॥੩॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 695}
So we are always directed to search within ourselves.
Prakash.S.Bagga

peacesign

Brother Prakash that reminds me so very much of:


"...Man contains the entire creation within himself, and the breath of life that never dies is within him....O human being, look to humanity. For humanity has the heavens and the earth and all created things within himself. It is one form, within which all things are hidden...Behold at the very fountainhead of life the beating of the eternal heart [...] the intense energy emitted by the heart of the Father...God is eternal and God is here...God is beyond the mind and understanding of all creatures...The elements in the world are also within human beings...The body is the garment of the soul and it is the soul which gives life to the voice. That is why the body must raise its voice in harmony with the soul for the praise of God...All of Creation is a song of praise to God...Just as a circle embraces all that is within it, so does the God-Head embrace all...Creation looks on its Creator like the beloved looks on the lover..Holy persons draw to themselves all that is earthly..."


- Saint Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), philosopher, mystic, visionary, artist, poet, composer, theologian and Doctor of the Catholic Church