Christianity Christian Watch

[Satyaban]

Namaste:

I don't place much stock in those type of "assisted" conversions because I think what a person can be talked into can be talked out of.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[spnadmin]

Definitely

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

I doubt anyone was anything but disgusted by this display. Certainly it would not convince anyone of the superiority of Christianity.

Not all conversion techniques are so obvious and openly gross. I suggest that all members here take a look at "The Blog of Gordon Pifher," specifically this entry about the Christian Programme in Canada called Seeking Sikhs.The Blog of Gordon Pifher Sikh.

This is creepy, underhanded,and dishonest, pretending to befriend a Sikh, be interested in our beliefs, all with the purpose of changing us into them. My sisters and brothers, please do not fall for this! I hasten to add that most Christians are good people trying their best to give good decent lives as good, decent people.

Perhaps this is a good place to state Mai's Law: In any large group of people, approximately 10% are really good, 10% are really bad; the remaining 80% are ordinary people doing their best to put one foot in front of the other, living life as best they know how. Most Christians, like most Sikhs, most Muslims, most Canadians, most Indians, etc. are just doing their best. It is really necessary, however, to be aware and beware of that evil 10%.

:ice:

 

[JimRinX]

SPNer's jis!
Words fail me, when I think of how to tell you just how amused I am by all of this; but then I was once a Catholic, and I've been having a lot of trouble with them messing around in mhy Medical and Disability Pension related affairs - all of which has created a situation in which the SSA is with-holding $6082 from me, via their 'punnish me for leaving the Church' activities!
They've said that doing so (leaving the 'Church', that us) is, "CRAZY - and it SHOULD BE PAINFUL!!!"
Thus, I was awarded my SSD (my Disability Pension; stands for 'Social Security Disability') for a Mental Illness that I did not apply for it for - while they've quite deliberately ignored my Physical Disability (a kind of Neuropathy).
This, you see, has resulted in my being 'labeled' "Crazy", while, by allowing them to ignore various Rights that I have under a Law called the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), they've 'gotten away with' (so far!) forcing me to do a LOT of Painful Things!
I say; if you take their money - but stay a Sikh, you'd still be a 'Saintly' Person - but only if you applied the not-so-ill-gotten gains to the creation of a Sikh (or any Dharmic Faith-run) based School, or Medical Clinic, for poor SE Asians in, say, Cambodia or Laos!!!
They don't pay these Poor - but Good! - Dharma Practitioning (traditionally) Peoples money to 'convert', they offer them a Ticket to America, in exchange for 'selling out' the Buddha, or Shiva, or Lao Tzu, or whoever!
I was told, by a Catholic (BEWARE: This is disgusting!), that they'd thought I'd taken shelter (when I was a teenager, of 17, myself!) because, "Buddhist sell their daughters into SEXUAL BONDAGE," and that they'd thought that I'd thought that I could, "Score TEEN MEAT easier, if I was Buddhist!":inca:
Is it any surprise that People so RUDE, so CRUDE, so - Arrrrgh! - have to PAY MONEY TO (or otherwise 'buy off') those who they seek to convert?!?
You know what I told this Catholic Person? I said, "Did Papa-san send Daughter-san to screw American GI's before or after John McCain dropped cluster bombs all over their Rice Paddies and, thus, left her (and her parents!) NO CHOICE but to ask Daughter-san to DISHONOR Herself so - out of Duty to, ands LOVE FOR, her Familly!"
Sometimes "My Fellow Americans' DISGUST ME! There are a few Gems amongst us, though; so don't dispair to deeply!!!

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Perhaps, on a slightly lighter note:

My medical caregiver who is assigned to help me do what I cannot since this stroke is a born-again Christian. Just about every word that comes out of her mouth is, in some way, about her belief. Usually, I just let it pass, but once in a while, we talk about it.

It goes something like this...

Her: If you’d just read the Bible, you’d see how it’s all true.
Me: I have. Several times, in fact. Have you?
Her: (incredulously): Er, er, not all of it. Have you really read the whole Bible?
Me: Yes.
Her: Then you must see it is true.
Me: I accept that it is your holy scriptures and there is much truth and wisdom in it.
Her: (sadly): But you don’t believe it.
Me: No, not as you do.
Her But it’s the truth!
Me: I accept that it is the truth for you.
Her: It is the truth. How can you fight the devil if you don’t believe in the Bible?
Me: I don’t believe in the devil.
Her: What about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden? Who do you think the snake was?
...(I just look at her. )

Her: Oh, you really don’t believe in the Bible. Or Adam and Eve?
Me: Not as you do.
Her: Why not?
Me: I would have to speak disrespectfully about your beliefs to explain that, and my religion teaches me that I should treat your beliefs with respect.
Her: Don’t you want to convince me that you’re right?
Me: No. I have no stake in your believing what I believe.
Her: But tell the truth. Don’t you wish everyone in the world was Sikh?
Me: Your religion means everything to you. It is the meaning and purpose and joy of your life.
Her: Oh, yes! Absolutely!
Me: What kind of a person would I be if I tried to take that away from you?
Her: But what I believe is true!

 

[JimRinX]

Mai ji
I am chagrined! I almost feel ashamed of myself for being so vitriolic - but they started it, and they've actually done me some harm in the process!:down:
And what I've just posted (above) is actually TRUE - so they (or, at least, the really vile ones who're 'in it' to stoke their Egos! It's so tempting to adopt faiths that make you feel 'superior' - and what could be more inferior than a faith that makes Hos out of it's children?) deserve to have their 'techniques' put under the ol' Atomic Force Microscope!:yes:
As usual, you've cramed the tempest back into my teapot!:shutup:
Thanks!

 

[faujasingh]

The assurances of going to heaven, the focus on us living in illusion and similiarly the english speaking tablighis who with a smile say 'you are missing something, if you are not following islam' and both of these exclaim with popped up eyes " OH! you know its Scientific !!!

I just cant stop laughing when i meet such people. I just have to tell them 'Sir i dont want t go heaven, since i have the option of coming back and that i shall. I have no desire for becoming a jeevan mukat :happy:. I like travelling and meeting people and I will continue to do this all my life and the life next. I am happy with mother earth and mother nature, please!!! I dont want to go up to yor 'promised land' which only claims to have fairies and black eyed beauties. :}{}{}:

 

[JimRinX]

Faujasingh ji
Having had the Priviledge of 'Fully Transcending' through a very special kind of Deep Meditation Trance that I was fortunate to have happened upon on two different occasions in my life, I TOO have grown quite fond of the Idea of continuing to Reincarnate for some time; but then I was able, on two all-too-brief occasions, "review" the memories of my Past Lives in great detail!
To certain Christians (go two replies up), the very Idea of doing such a thing is 'Crazy' - and the act of speaking of it is 'Satanic'!!!
I'll defer to Mai jis scolding, here; but if you read the rest of my many posts, you'll see that I've been being put through quite a Trail over the last few years - and that I "B**ch about it" a LOT!
All I did was offer them some of the Buddhas LOVING KINDNESS & COMPASSION!
They know not what that is!!!:inca:

 

[faujasingh]

Tim If you can explain things in an earthly language it would be easy. I dont understand trance and transcending things. I am simple sikh of the Guru. Tell me from the bottom of your heart what do you actually follow.

 

[Satyaban]

Jim ji

I don't mean to be rude but I have never heard of the Catholic Church going after an individual for an individual action in hundreds of years. I truly wish you would you would go to a Wat and spend sometime with the monks and maybe go to a ashram or monastery to become a novice and get to work. I mean this with kindness so please consider it that way.:advocate:

Peace
Satyaban

 

[spnadmin]

Satyaban ji

The Catholic Church has gone after people in the past 50 years or less -- and it is going to become more intense with the present Pope. Of course there have been no burnings at the stake or being pressed to death on a bed of nails. Against most laws. But there have been intense and traumatic ecclesiastical trials for individuals like Hans Kuhn, or Jesuits who preached emancipation theology in South America. This is a Sikh forum so I will not go on endlessly about it. Also within the Christian right in the US -- there is a very large and severe and extremist and well organized claque of Catholics who make statements like the Hindu theory of karma is the essence of nihilism.

In fact the population of Roman Catholics is so large and diverse that a lot goes on both ends of the liberal/conservative spectrum that escapes the eye.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Yesterday I brought up this topic about evangelising at the funeral with my born-again, spirit-filled Christian medical caretaker. I must admit I was a bit taken aback by her response.

She said:

"If you let just anyone there come up and talk, of course, the Christians will evangelise; that's what we're supposed to do, preach the gospel at every opportunity. If you don't want this, you should just have predetermined speakers. Then if someone rushes the stage, you can call the police."

I admit she left me speechless, no small feat. She seemed insensitive, cold, without any understanding of the fact that this was a funeral, the sangat there needed loving comfort, not this attack on their deepest beliefs.

She did later admit that such tactics would probably be counterproductive, hurting and angering people (Sikhs) rather than opening them to "the love of Christ."

 

[spnadmin]

Mai ji

My experience only. Christians are all over the lot on this business of having a duty to Evangelize. In fact most in the mainstream would not/do not. The cross section of Christians who consider themselves either Pentacostals or Evangelicals do however make a point of it.

So knowing the reality of the situation, the next step is prevention.

 

[Mai Harinder Kaur]

Mai ji

My experience only. Christians are all over the lot on this business of having a duty to Evangelize. In fact most in the mainstream would not/do not. The cross section of Christians who consider themselves either Pentacostals or Evangelicals do however make a point of it.

So knowing the reality of the situation, the next step is prevention.

Excellent! The problem, as I see it, is how to prevent such ugly displays? If anyone and everyone is allowed to talk, this could easily happen again. On the other hand, why limit those who have something legitimate to say?

BTW, I am well aware that the majority of Christians are polite, reasonable people who find such displays as this abhorrent. However, since they are not the problem, they are left out of this discussion.

 

[JimRinX]

SPN jis
I, like Narayanjot, have been 'gotten to' - by the Catholic Church - through my (former) Catholic Medical Providers, as well as the fact that the Catholic sister of an FBI Agent has been seeking to 'get away with' ripping off my ENG 101 Papers in 1996 (I now have proof), by using the fact that I took shelter, in 1982, to provoke the Church to 'try to get me back'.
You are Naive if you don't think that this kind of thing has been happening througout the entire history of the Church - including the last 'hundreds of years'.
As far as my Buddhism is concerned, I was a Buddhist BEFORE I was born; and, in fact, I once had my Clear Light (I'm NOT a Theravadan!) 'slip free' from my body and enter the Bardo (Formless Realm #1)
There, I communed with Gautama Himself and then, after seeing that I was not ready to stay in Shambala, The Buddha took me to 'see' (though I had no eyes...the Guru Granth Sahib describes this experience very well! That's why I'm ON HERE!) what I once chose to call 'The Clear Light Deity Entity, but now call 'The Great Formless One', who returned me to my prone body.
When, after arising, I went to the Loo, and I looked in the Mirror - I saw that a White Streak had appeared in my hair.
NO! This was NOT because of 'Stress' - though, for some strange reason, the Monks at one of our local Temples seem to have been told this (but NOT by me; so WHO? The Asian lady who showed up to 'volunteer' three weeks AFTER she assured me, in a Coffee Shop, that 'Jesus, and the Catholic Church, were THE ONLY WAY!!! - THAT'S WHO!!!).
This all jibes nicely (but evilly) with the fact that, though I'm dsiabled by a Neuropathy (not a stressful 'Neurosis'!) - and I, thus, applied for SSD for said PHYSICAL Disability, I was awarded my SSD Pension for a MENTAL ILLNESS that I DID NOT complain about in the way they're now saying I did. It also accounts for why, when I appealed this so-called 'error', a 'team' of three Catholic Doctors messed it all up; so I was 're-awarded' my SSD for the Bi-Polar/Schizo Disorder thingy.
One of them told me, when I confronted her about violating her Hypocratic Oath and lying to the SSA, that, "Leaving the Catholic Church is Crazy - and it SHOULD BE PAINFUL!!!"
Now, Satyaban ji, you HAVE heard of the Catholic Church 'comming after' someone in VERY RECENT History!
Saying what I just did (above) about the event - which is The Great Rock that my Faith is founded upon - is 'Crazy' in their eyes; it's whyy they deliberately got me labeled not just 'Crazy' - but Schizophrenic!
You see, that Agents sister went looking for allies to help defend her from getting in trouble; and, when she found a guy who had a Grudge against me for Firing Him - a guy who'd once been a good enough friend that, when he (and a dozen others) saw the 'White Streak' that'd just 'suddenly appeared, like magic', and asked me if I'd 'gone to the salon, or gotten one of those hair-frosting kits', I'd told him the Truth.
My Prof has Proof that this B**ch ripped me off; I'm gonna teach her - and the Catholic Doctors who she 'sicced' on me - a Big Lesson!
Pray that I suceed, instead of advising me to learn what The Buddha already showed me!
Unless, of course, you too think that only 'The Christian God' could cause a 'stigmata' to appear in my hair, like that; or you too believe that, if it wasn't 'the Christian God, promoting a Gospel-only POV', then it MUST have been SATAN who caused the Mark upon my Body to appear?
I've filed Two Claims - and two Appeals - with the SSA; all of them focused on getting benefits because of my Neuropathy (Nerve + Disease, in Latin; it's VERY PAINFUL and slowly Paralyzing; it's NOT a Mental Illness; it's NOT a 'Nervous Condition' that might make ones Hair go Grey! Besides, I was only 26 in 1991! Not a HINT of Grey - yet!); but, yet, due largely to Christain/Catholic Doctors - all of whom I believe have had ILLEGAL and Unethical contact with people who I managed and had to punnish and/or Fire - I'm STILL being paid my SSD for a Mental Illness!!!
Kinda' funny that, despite the fact that Mental Illnesses rarely cause Physical Pain, that I've been on Narcotic Pain Management, for the Neuropathic Pain, caused by my Neuropathy, for ELEVEN YEARS; don't you think?!?
Like I said, you've heard of it NOW!

 

[JimRinX]

Mai and Narayanjot jis
You both posted while I was wrting the above for Satyaban jis benefit, so let me add that most Christians believe that the only way to get into 'Heaven', is to 'Believe in the Gospels, and the Salvation accessable only through accepting the fact of Christs self sacrifice', etc., etc..; which is why they are so fanatical.
Thank You, Narayanjot ji, for the 'back up', by the way; half - if not all - of those at my local temple seem to have been 'touched' by the 'Asian (A Chinese Catholic, almost for certain!) Woman' who I mentioned in the above post. She seems to have been admonished, though; but only after I complained that she, and a companion who she'd brought with her, had actually gotten in-between me and the Shrine at which I was praying, and begun to engage in a loud conversation!!!
She did something similar when I was asking the Four Faced Buddha (which is in the Garden, and surrounded by a Koi Pond) to watch over me, by interupting my prayers - repeatedly - to ask me if I thought "The Koi look hungry"!!!
Like I told Satyaban ji; he's heard of the Catholic Church messing around with people who leave it/disagree with it NOW!!!
Love you all!:happy:

 

[Satyaban]

Jim ji

Even though I have experience with the SSA and growing up with the majority of my friends being Catholic, I sometimes attended mass with them and knew the priests and some of the nuns all of which wore black and white habits, I am not "qualified" to comment on your post.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[Satyaban]

Satyaban ji

The Catholic Church has gone after people in the past 50 years or less -- and it is going to become more intense with the present Pope. Of course there have been no burnings at the stake or being pressed to death on a bed of nails. Against most laws. But there have been intense and traumatic ecclesiastical trials for individuals like Hans Kuhn, or Jesuits who preached emancipation theology in South America. This is a Sikh forum so I will not go on endlessly about it. Also within the Christian right in the US -- there is a very large and severe and extremist and well organized claque of Catholics who make statements like the Hindu theory of karma is the essence of nihilism.

In fact the population of Roman Catholics is so large and diverse that a lot goes on both ends of the liberal/conservative spectrum that escapes the eye.

My point is that I am not aware of the Catholic Church going after John Doe for leaving for leaving the church. As a religious organization they may sanction some members who have some kind of position where they represent the church. Do you see mass excommunication of Catholics politicians who support a woman's right to choose concerning abortion in American.

"Also within the Christian right in the US -- there is a very large and severe and extremist and well organized claque of Catholics who make statements like the Hindu theory of karma is the essence of nihilism."

There is also a part of the extreme right who think very negatively of the Catholic Church, many of whom are Baptists. There are also many Catholics who are quite ecumenical.

Furthermore I don't pay much attention to comments by people who are ignorant and start with a negative opinion and then look for items to support it.

Peace
Satyaban

 

[faujasingh]

The militancy in the northeast is largely funded by a chruch of Texas. Those evangelicals and born agains are no less than osama bin ladin

 

[Satyaban]

I have to say that when I think about hateful groups and such the Catholic Church doesn't even enter my mind.

Peace
Satyaban