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yes
and i have another question
how is the janam sanskaar or any other ritual different from Janeu ritual?
and i have another question
how is the janam sanskaar or any other ritual different from Janeu ritual?
Changing Trends In Sikh Weddings
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it's not a duck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:}--}:
:}--}:
Well, you might not want to be someone who over-generalizes. They have something in common as religious practices. They are rituals. But sharing a common characteristic does not make them identical. For example, leopards and cougars are both members of the same genus Felix; however they are not identical cats. Same would apply.....janeau and Janaam Saskar are rituals, but why would that alone make them identical?
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Janeu ceremony
here is a video from youtube
YouTube - MOHITS JANEU
Baptisms:
YouTube - Baptisms
Janam Saskar/Dastar Bandi
YouTube - Rites of passage
here is a video from youtube
YouTube - MOHITS JANEU
Baptisms:
YouTube - Baptisms
Janam Saskar/Dastar Bandi
YouTube - Rites of passage
Huck finn ji..
yes i may be thinking only on the "physical" plane..( ??!!$$*8**)...but any special reason behind changing the cat to a duck (which it isnt ??)..animal rights ? or maybe you are alluding to a :janam snskaar "akin to a cat being "painted" or even changing to a duck. I know some say that Khnadey dee Pahul does make Chirrian ton Baz ( sparrows into Eagles..a little bit like a drab cat to a photohopped cat..maybe ?/) and ordinary jatt farmers/halwais,goldsmiths, banniahs, wahtever....into the Examplary Soldiers of the Khalsa that defeated the Mughal professional soldiers..i may again be only on the "physical plane "..??
yes i may be thinking only on the "physical" plane..( ??!!$$*8**)...but any special reason behind changing the cat to a duck (which it isnt ??)..animal rights ? or maybe you are alluding to a :janam snskaar "akin to a cat being "painted" or even changing to a duck. I know some say that Khnadey dee Pahul does make Chirrian ton Baz ( sparrows into Eagles..a little bit like a drab cat to a photohopped cat..maybe ?/) and ordinary jatt farmers/halwais,goldsmiths, banniahs, wahtever....into the Examplary Soldiers of the Khalsa that defeated the Mughal professional soldiers..i may again be only on the "physical plane "..??
Dastaar bandhee is actually also a Punjabi Cultural thing.
Normal was after the DEATH of an elder head of the family..the Dastaar or puggh was placed on the Head of the Heir designate to show everyone that HE is the person who will now be HEAD..assume all the DEBTS and responsibilities of the dead member. The Imporatnt Part was DEBTS COLLECTION...as normally..once a person became a DEBTOR,,he would die in debt..and since the Banniah/Moneyledner always collected his debts..he ahd to know who is going to PAY him from then on..Generations went on Paying...and the banniahs also dastarbandhi to show who will be COLLECTING....
Sikhs used to do thsi after the Bhog of the dead one in the Gurdwara...slowly the custom died out as DIASPORA SIKHS broke away from the Traditional DEBT PASS ON/INHERIT FAMILY PROPERTY TRADITION..unlike in Punajb where all the sons (and under Hindu law also the daughters) activley FIGHT for share in the family Khet.House etc..in the Diaspora the sons etc were all independently employed/wealthy and didnt depend on the family house/land etc to survive...So there was actually NO NEED for any dastarbandhi ceremony to designate the HEIR/debt inheritor.
NOW..the Younger Generation ahs begun this NEW ceremony which is in the Utube Video of the Gurdawra near where I live. This was held last vasakhi day (2009) and is an attempt to bring back the glamour of the dastaar among teenage SIKHS...The ACTUAL and accepted RITE of real initiation into the Khalsa Brotherhood is still the Khandey dee Pahul by the PANJ Piayars....donning the dastaar is just a first step in this direction.
Normal was after the DEATH of an elder head of the family..the Dastaar or puggh was placed on the Head of the Heir designate to show everyone that HE is the person who will now be HEAD..assume all the DEBTS and responsibilities of the dead member. The Imporatnt Part was DEBTS COLLECTION...as normally..once a person became a DEBTOR,,he would die in debt..and since the Banniah/Moneyledner always collected his debts..he ahd to know who is going to PAY him from then on..Generations went on Paying...and the banniahs also dastarbandhi to show who will be COLLECTING....
Sikhs used to do thsi after the Bhog of the dead one in the Gurdwara...slowly the custom died out as DIASPORA SIKHS broke away from the Traditional DEBT PASS ON/INHERIT FAMILY PROPERTY TRADITION..unlike in Punajb where all the sons (and under Hindu law also the daughters) activley FIGHT for share in the family Khet.House etc..in the Diaspora the sons etc were all independently employed/wealthy and didnt depend on the family house/land etc to survive...So there was actually NO NEED for any dastarbandhi ceremony to designate the HEIR/debt inheritor.
NOW..the Younger Generation ahs begun this NEW ceremony which is in the Utube Video of the Gurdawra near where I live. This was held last vasakhi day (2009) and is an attempt to bring back the glamour of the dastaar among teenage SIKHS...The ACTUAL and accepted RITE of real initiation into the Khalsa Brotherhood is still the Khandey dee Pahul by the PANJ Piayars....donning the dastaar is just a first step in this direction.
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if dastar or tuban is so much punjabi in culture in sikh history- why are people hell bent on dissing caps?
why can't a person of European descent wear a bowl hat instead of turban ?
<<yes i may be thinking only on the "physical" plane..( ??!!$$*8**)...but any special reason behind changing the cat to a duck (which it isnt ??)..animal rights ? or maybe you are alluding to a :janam snskaar "akin to a cat being "painted" or even changing to a duck. I know some say that Khnadey dee Pahul does make Chirrian ton Baz ( sparrows into Eagles..a little bit like a drab cat to a photohopped cat..maybe ?/) and ordinary jatt farmers/halwais,goldsmiths, banniahs, wahtever....into the Examplary Soldiers of the Khalsa that defeated the Mughal professional soldiers..i may again be only on the "physical plane "..??>>>
i hope you have heard of Joan of Arc too
why can't a person of European descent wear a bowl hat instead of turban ?
<<yes i may be thinking only on the "physical" plane..( ??!!$$*8**)...but any special reason behind changing the cat to a duck (which it isnt ??)..animal rights ? or maybe you are alluding to a :janam snskaar "akin to a cat being "painted" or even changing to a duck. I know some say that Khnadey dee Pahul does make Chirrian ton Baz ( sparrows into Eagles..a little bit like a drab cat to a photohopped cat..maybe ?/) and ordinary jatt farmers/halwais,goldsmiths, banniahs, wahtever....into the Examplary Soldiers of the Khalsa that defeated the Mughal professional soldiers..i may again be only on the "physical plane "..??>>>
i hope you have heard of Joan of Arc too
The KHALSA just cant stand caps..topis..hats...hardhats..safetyhats..helmets..cowboy hats..bandellos..wahtever. Period. Methinks the Hat/dastaar doesnt fit into the Khalsa Scabbard..and as you may know a scabbard can only accomodate ONE SWORD.
Joan of Arc..yes i ahve heard and read about her...but the connection elludes me..can you please explain a bit more what you mean..and why ??
Joan of Arc..yes i ahve heard and read about her...but the connection elludes me..can you please explain a bit more what you mean..and why ??
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<<The KHALSA just cant stand caps..topis..hats...hardhats..safetyhats..helmets. .cowboy hats..bandellos..wahtever. Period. Methinks the Hat/dastaar doesnt fit into the Khalsa Scabbard..and as you may know a scabbard can only accomodate ONE SWORD.>>
i did not understand what you meant by the above statement. Could you please elucidate?
<<Joan of Arc..yes i ahve heard and read about her...but the connection elludes me..can you please explain a bit more what you mean..and why ??>>
Joan of Arc also converted a rag tag peasantry based army into one that beat Britishers.
The connection is to your statement -
<I know some say that Khnadey dee Pahul does make Chirrian ton Baz ( sparrows into Eagles..a little bit like a drab cat to a photohopped cat..maybe ?/) and ordinary jatt farmers/halwais,goldsmiths, banniahs, wahtever....into the Examplary Soldiers of the Khalsa that defeated the Mughal professional soldiers.>
i did not understand what you meant by the above statement. Could you please elucidate?
<<Joan of Arc..yes i ahve heard and read about her...but the connection elludes me..can you please explain a bit more what you mean..and why ??>>
Joan of Arc also converted a rag tag peasantry based army into one that beat Britishers.
The connection is to your statement -
<I know some say that Khnadey dee Pahul does make Chirrian ton Baz ( sparrows into Eagles..a little bit like a drab cat to a photohopped cat..maybe ?/) and ordinary jatt farmers/halwais,goldsmiths, banniahs, wahtever....into the Examplary Soldiers of the Khalsa that defeated the Mughal professional soldiers.>
Joan of Arc was a one off sensation..the KHALSA still stands the test of time..even in 1984 Operation Bluestar...a handful beat the living daylights out of one of the best fighting Forces of a 21st century world power.
The First person to set up a rag tag army was Guru hargobind Ji. 4 battles - all won by sikhs.then Guru Gobind Singh jis 17 battles, then Baba bnada Singh, onward to Maharaja ranjitSingh..British Empire..Saragharrhee etc world war i and 2 battlefields...etc etc the SIKH shone. imho the comparison with Joan of arc..doesnt hold too much water.
2. I mean that the KHALSA just DONT LIKE anything except a DASTAAR. period. To a Khalsa his Dastaar is his CROWN (maharaja ranjit Singh was a KING..he NEVER WORE A CROWN...only His dastaar..same for all the Princely States..Patiala, Kapurthala, Nabha, Jind..Phul...etc etc..they Never wore any CROWNS as Kings normally do..only the DASTAAR. ..So Today for a Khalsa..his dastaar is his hardhat, helmet..firehat..safety aht..whatever..he feels SAFE in His DASTAAR..on the Battlefield..in raining bullets..ONLY DASTAAR suffices.
The First person to set up a rag tag army was Guru hargobind Ji. 4 battles - all won by sikhs.then Guru Gobind Singh jis 17 battles, then Baba bnada Singh, onward to Maharaja ranjitSingh..British Empire..Saragharrhee etc world war i and 2 battlefields...etc etc the SIKH shone. imho the comparison with Joan of arc..doesnt hold too much water.
2. I mean that the KHALSA just DONT LIKE anything except a DASTAAR. period. To a Khalsa his Dastaar is his CROWN (maharaja ranjit Singh was a KING..he NEVER WORE A CROWN...only His dastaar..same for all the Princely States..Patiala, Kapurthala, Nabha, Jind..Phul...etc etc..they Never wore any CROWNS as Kings normally do..only the DASTAAR. ..So Today for a Khalsa..his dastaar is his hardhat, helmet..firehat..safety aht..whatever..he feels SAFE in His DASTAAR..on the Battlefield..in raining bullets..ONLY DASTAAR suffices.
Just want to add my thoughts for what they may be worth. I absolutely loved the video about dastar bhandi. Did we notice how thrilled and how happy everyone there was -- without being crazed with emotion.
Here is something to consider - an analogy from economics. The economist John Kenneth Galbraith once pointed out that if all the wealth in the world were equally distributed (and all social distinctions based on wealth were completely erased) then everyone on the planet would have 16.98 US dollars. In other words, everyone has next to nothing, and would be equally impoverished. Ceremonies have value. There is no way to test whether a similar idea could be applied to the value of ceremonies that preserve distinctions among religions.
But try to contemplate a world in which there are no socially relevant ceremonies that define membership in a group, society, culture or religion. We would all be on our own trying to discover who we are culturally with the tutelage of adults who were still trying to discover their social identities as well. NOTE. The image I get is of fish flopping around dazed and disoriented on the deck of a fishing boat. I am speaking of social/religious identity not spiritual or individual identity.
There is not a society or culture or religion that I can think of that does not have ceremonies related to Identity. These can be in the large, such as graduation from university. Or they can be more locally defined, such as adult baptism by immersion as seen in another video posted above. To be outraged or even mildly critical against this is pointless. Whenever an ideology or a tyrant has tried to erase social, with that religious identity,and the ceremonies that go along the eventual outcome has been massively destructive and ****** (Try Pol Pot in Cambodia for starters) and it never works (Consider the persistence of Buddhism in spite of attempts to destroy it in India centuries ago) and it only makes a people more determined (Consider repeated attempts to destroy Sikhism under the Moghal emperors).
A basic textbook in anthropology will no doubt describe better than I how "ceremonies" are found in every society and will explain their purposes better than I. If our purpose is to eliminate religious boundaries that are supported by signs, symbols, ceremonies and rituals, because we believe that this furthers violence and prejudice, then we should come out and say so and bear the consequences of the discussion.
P/S Donning dastar is just the first step.
Here is something to consider - an analogy from economics. The economist John Kenneth Galbraith once pointed out that if all the wealth in the world were equally distributed (and all social distinctions based on wealth were completely erased) then everyone on the planet would have 16.98 US dollars. In other words, everyone has next to nothing, and would be equally impoverished. Ceremonies have value. There is no way to test whether a similar idea could be applied to the value of ceremonies that preserve distinctions among religions.
But try to contemplate a world in which there are no socially relevant ceremonies that define membership in a group, society, culture or religion. We would all be on our own trying to discover who we are culturally with the tutelage of adults who were still trying to discover their social identities as well. NOTE. The image I get is of fish flopping around dazed and disoriented on the deck of a fishing boat. I am speaking of social/religious identity not spiritual or individual identity.
There is not a society or culture or religion that I can think of that does not have ceremonies related to Identity. These can be in the large, such as graduation from university. Or they can be more locally defined, such as adult baptism by immersion as seen in another video posted above. To be outraged or even mildly critical against this is pointless. Whenever an ideology or a tyrant has tried to erase social, with that religious identity,and the ceremonies that go along the eventual outcome has been massively destructive and ****** (Try Pol Pot in Cambodia for starters) and it never works (Consider the persistence of Buddhism in spite of attempts to destroy it in India centuries ago) and it only makes a people more determined (Consider repeated attempts to destroy Sikhism under the Moghal emperors).
A basic textbook in anthropology will no doubt describe better than I how "ceremonies" are found in every society and will explain their purposes better than I. If our purpose is to eliminate religious boundaries that are supported by signs, symbols, ceremonies and rituals, because we believe that this furthers violence and prejudice, then we should come out and say so and bear the consequences of the discussion.
P/S Donning dastar is just the first step.
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<<I mean that the KHALSA just DONT LIKE anything except a DASTAAR. period. To a Khalsa his Dastaar is his CROWN (maharaja ranjit Singh was a KING..he NEVER WORE A CROWN...only His dastaar..same for all the Princely States..Patiala, Kapurthala, Nabha, Jind..Phul...etc etc..they Never wore any CROWNS as Kings normally do..only the DASTAAR. ..So Today for a Khalsa..his dastaar is his hardhat, helmet..firehat..safety aht..whatever..he feels SAFE in His DASTAAR..on the Battlefield..in raining bullets..ONLY DASTAAR suffices.>>
but Dastaar is a cultural attire ...isn't it?
so what about the Inuit KHALSA?
and why didn't Guru ji explicitly mention Dastaar as one of the 5 Ks ?
but Dastaar is a cultural attire ...isn't it?
so what about the Inuit KHALSA?
and why didn't Guru ji explicitly mention Dastaar as one of the 5 Ks ?
..and then people would ask..why COTTON Dsataar..did Guru Ji specifically mention Cotton..or is Rayon ok..what about Rayon+ cotton..50-50 60-40 mix..or silk..
AH..did Guru Ji Mention what type of cloth the Kacherra has to be ?? Has it must have a nalla (draw strings) or can a gatta (rubber stretchable do as well) ??
And must the Kangah..have a fixed number of teeth..or cna nay random number do ??Guru ji aslo didnt mention this..oh blast..
Guru Ji also forgot to mention use of oil etc for the Kesh...shampoos..all not specifically mentioned at all...
The only things is the Rehatnamas specifically say..CHUN CHUN KE bandhi...meaning the Dastaar MUST be Wound DAILY..and each time it should be opened ..stretched..and rewound bit by bit...NO Putting in a lot of starch and making it into a Helmet...OH OH..Ya they didnt "specifically mention"..NO STARCH !!..and that one should WASH it..or its colours...shape..size..
And Guru Ji also didnt specifically mention that the KESH are to be tied up in a Joorra...top knot...or left flying around...combed BACKWARDS and made into PLAITS ??
I am sorry..a lot of "specifics" were left out..what can we do..the GURUS were NOT as "legal Eagles" as want them to be...otherwise the SRM would be about as Big as the INDIAN CONSTITUTION..with as many addidtions addendums and articles sub articles etc...
Gyani ji,
That was really imaginative and original.
That was really imaginative and original.
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<<The only things is the Rehatnamas specifically say..CHUN CHUN KE bandhi...meaning the Dastaar MUST be Wound DAILY..and each time it should be opened ..stretched..and rewound bit by bit...NO Putting in a lot of starch and making it into a Helmet...OH OH..Ya they didnt "specifically mention"..NO STARCH !!..and that one should WASH it..or its colours...shape..size..<<
oh....
so the rehitnama is to be considered word for word while people lecture here to understand the essence!!!!
rehitnama is not even Gurubani but perspectives of people which are bound to be culturally biased.
What if a Brit was a follower of Guru ji (hypothetically)
what would have been the rehitnama..
go figure !!
oh....
so the rehitnama is to be considered word for word while people lecture here to understand the essence!!!!
rehitnama is not even Gurubani but perspectives of people which are bound to be culturally biased.
What if a Brit was a follower of Guru ji (hypothetically)
what would have been the rehitnama..
go figure !!
the Rehatnamahs are written by people who were close to Guru ji...so presemably tell us what was the things Guru Ji did daily...as an example to follow. Admitted they did retain some of theri own bias...and soem written later on have more of this - simialr to Bhai gurdass Jis vaars and kabits..even though written in the lifetime of Guru arjun Ji are NOT accepted as Gurbani of SGGS..never the elss as kunji..to understand Gurbani...
IF a Brit were a follower he would write the same thing..just like the Whites who became Khalsas wear Dastaars and cholas..and the 5 Ks...sikhnet has plenty of pics of how these "brits..irish..mexicans..brazilians..etc etc.." are wearing Dastaars and 5 Ks..what happeend to theri "culture of HATS and cowboy banderos ?? Go figure that out.
Any Brit Khalsa wearing a Hat anywhere ?? Wannabe Punjabis from Punajb may be...BUT not true Blue Brit who wants to becoem a Khalsa will ever even consider such...why become a Khalsa just to continue wearing a Hat...he can do it while being a christian whatever...?? They BECOME KHALSA to be able to WEAR a DASTAAR and DISCARD the hat.:yes::yes:
IF a Brit were a follower he would write the same thing..just like the Whites who became Khalsas wear Dastaars and cholas..and the 5 Ks...sikhnet has plenty of pics of how these "brits..irish..mexicans..brazilians..etc etc.." are wearing Dastaars and 5 Ks..what happeend to theri "culture of HATS and cowboy banderos ?? Go figure that out.
Any Brit Khalsa wearing a Hat anywhere ??
Wannabe Punjabis from Punajb may be...BUT not true Blue Brit who wants to becoem a Khalsa will ever even consider such...why become a Khalsa just to continue wearing a Hat...he can do it while being a christian whatever...?? They BECOME KHALSA to be able to WEAR a DASTAAR and DISCARD the hat.:yes::yes:
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<<
IF a Brit were a follower he would write the same thing..just like the Whites who became Khalsas wear Dastaars and cholas..and the 5 Ks...sikhnet has plenty of pics of how these "brits..irish..mexicans..brazilians..etc etc.." are wearing Dastaars and 5 Ks..what happeend to theri "culture of HATS and cowboy banderos ?? Go figure that out.>>
it is this ethnic intermingling of the Punjabi symbols and rituals that is holding back Sikhi from becoming mainstream in other countries. Do give a thought about this.
This is nothing but Punjabisation of Sikhi.
Do you think wearing a Turban makes someone a better Sikh or Khalsa?
To me the logic is same as wearing a Janeu making one a better Hindu or wearing the The Keffiyeh by muslims in various countries to show as Devout muslim.
<<BUT not true Blue Brit who wants to becoem a Khalsa will ever even consider such...why become a Khalsa just to continue wearing a Hat...he can do it while being a christian whatever...?? They BECOME KHALSA to be able to WEAR a DASTAAR and DISCARD the hat.>>
why not?
This is because of the ridicule and frowns he/she would face from people in Gurudwara who can't resist from stamping the punjabi cultural symbols in the name of Sikhi.
IF a Brit were a follower he would write the same thing..just like the Whites who became Khalsas wear Dastaars and cholas..and the 5 Ks...sikhnet has plenty of pics of how these "brits..irish..mexicans..brazilians..etc etc.." are wearing Dastaars and 5 Ks..what happeend to theri "culture of HATS and cowboy banderos ?? Go figure that out.>>
it is this ethnic intermingling of the Punjabi symbols and rituals that is holding back Sikhi from becoming mainstream in other countries. Do give a thought about this.
This is nothing but Punjabisation of Sikhi.
Do you think wearing a Turban makes someone a better Sikh or Khalsa?
To me the logic is same as wearing a Janeu making one a better Hindu or wearing the The Keffiyeh by muslims in various countries to show as Devout muslim.
<<BUT not true Blue Brit who wants to becoem a Khalsa will ever even consider such...why become a Khalsa just to continue wearing a Hat...he can do it while being a christian whatever...?? They BECOME KHALSA to be able to WEAR a DASTAAR and DISCARD the hat.>>
why not?
This is because of the ridicule and frowns he/she would face from people in Gurudwara who can't resist from stamping the punjabi cultural symbols in the name of Sikhi.
1.NO its NOT. Guru nanak Ji was Born in PUNJAB...and plenty of "sikhs" were around in the huge crowd milling about in Chandni Chowk..only thing was no one was "VISIBLY "SIKH". Guru Gobind Singh Ji Changed THAT. From 1699 onwards a SIKH would be VISIBLE among MILLIONS. You mentioned..."punjabisation" of SIKHI..i think its the opposite...SIKHISATION of PUNJAB is lacking and thats why PUNJAB is SLIPPING DAILY lower and lower and will soon reach LOWER than Pakistani Punjab which lost its "SIKHISATION" about 60 years ago...The ONLY way FORWARD to its PAST GLORY..is to begin "SIKHISATION" of PUNJAB....Sikh values, Gurmatt, the Pride that goes with the Crown - Dastaar....back to the CROWN Jewel of INDIA...that was Punjab under SIKHS. ( But of course such is anathema to the Hindutva Forces that now have control of India's destiny after being Slaves of Muslims for a THOUSAND YEARS...the Monkey getting wet in the rain will destroy the birds nest rather than learn to build its own...)
2.The White SIKHS dont go to any "punjabi" Gurdawaras..so no question of any punjabi ridicule etc. They have their own Gurdawars where EVERYONE..from Toddler to adult, women included are in DASTAARS. Its the so called "punjabi sikhs" who have discarded their Kesh and wear hats to try and FIT in witht he whites...who DONT DARE enter these Gurdwars for fear of feeling SHAME at the Betrayal of their GURU who was Born in PUNJAB. Its in the "punjabi Sikh " gurdawaras where the newly SHAVED HEADS..wannabe "Punjabi Gorehs" who try and force their "majority status" try and create a daily ruckus..why i cannot do this "seva" why i cannot do that...why i cannot waand parshaad..why i cannot sit tabiah..why i cant do Kirtan..etc etc. Its such who question..how is wearing a dastaar better 'sikhi"....they should first learn to answer..how is shaving ones head.."better Sikhi" ??
3. There is NO LOGIC..in the assertion that Janeau makes a Hindu better..or the khayffeah a better muslim..or the Gatra kirpan a better Sikh. Neither is there any LOGIC in that..REMOVING a Janeau makes a better Hindu...taking away the pardah makes a better Muslim..and taking away his gatra kirpan/Dastaar instantly transforms an ordinary Sikh into a Baba banda Singh bahadur..of Bhai Mani Singh ??? Aurengzeb REMOVED a SER of Janeaus DAILY before his breakfast...was he creating "BETTER" Hindus ??
Bhai Taru Singhs Scalp was REMOVED..was the Mughal Governor trying to make him a Better SIKH ?? Turkey enforces the Law agaisnt wearing the Khayfeah..are the Turkish Muslims the BEST among all muslims ?? No crimes, no cheaters, no wife beaters, no divorces, in TURKEY ??..maybe..as compared to Saudi Arabia where the opposite is enforced by LAW. Is THIS LOGIC ?..GURU NANAK JI already cleared this LOGIC BUSINESS..500 years ago..He declared...........SHUBH AMALAAN BAJHOON DOVEH ROIEE !!!! Its the CHARACTER..the SPIRIT..the INTERNAL SPIRITUAL STRENGTH...the habits, the amaals, that Matter.
A hat wearer that says..I am a BETTER SIKH..simply because of the HAT..is as big a fool as the one who says that a dastaar is all one needs to prove that I am THE better sikh...and THATS THAT. Guru nanak: Shubh amlaan bajhoh dovehn rooiee!! applies.
To be entirely TRUTHFUL... I am a Dastardhree amritdharee..and I have met MORE "hat wearers" who CLAIM they are better SIKHS simply because they shave daily....I havent yet met a single one of the opposite type. There may be many..BUT I havent met any yet. Its maybe becasue the "dsatar wallahs" get all the "plum sevas" automatically...no one even casts a second look when they sit tabiah..begin kirtan..patth..or serve parshaad..and the SHAVEN HEADS in their tiny Handkerchiefs..feel they are being "stared at"...( dare i say inferiority complex)..then feel COMPELLED to DEFEND their INNER SPIRITUAL 'SUPERIORITY" over the dastarwallahs !!..by saying things like..oh dharree wallah smoke kardah see..oh paggh wallah sherab peendah see..etc etc to show that the pugghwllahs are indeed SPIRITUALLY VACANT as compared to their overflowing spirituality !!
I take all these in my stride..come across such types all over the INTERNET as well...so far no one has yet invented a Meter/instrument to MEASURE SPIRITUALITY....so all we have to go on is OUTSIDE APPEARANCE....and reality is in a GURDWARA..the Dastarwakllahs OUTSIDE appearance is OVERWHELMING.
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<<1.NO its NOT. Guru nanak Ji was Born in PUNJAB...and plenty of "sikhs" were around in the huge crowd milling about in Chandni Chowk..only thing was no one was "VISIBLY "SIKH". Guru Gobind Singh Ji Changed THAT. From 1699 onwards a SIKH would be VISIBLE among MILLIONS. You mentioned..."punjabisation" of SIKHI..i think its the opposite...SIKHISATION of PUNJAB is lacking and thats why PUNJAB is SLIPPING DAILY lower and lower and will soon reach LOWER than Pakistani Punjab which lost its "SIKHISATION" about 60 years ago...The ONLY way FORWARD to its PAST GLORY..is to begin "SIKHISATION" of PUNJAB....Sikh values, Gurmatt, the Pride that goes with the Crown - Dastaar....back to the CROWN Jewel of INDIA...that was Punjab under SIKHS. ( But of course such is anathema to the Hindutva Forces that now have control of India's destiny after being Slaves of Muslims for a THOUSAND YEARS...the Monkey getting wet in the rain will destroy the birds nest rather than learn to build its own...) >>
Guru Nanak was born in punjab, i wonder why he did not make people wear the punjabi dress in his travels across the world?
ever wondered that why he did not do it?
because the thing that was important was the "message" and "teachings" and not the physical appearance.
<<The White SIKHS dont go to any "punjabi" Gurdawaras..so no question of any punjabi ridicule etc. They have their own Gurdawars where EVERYONE..from Toddler to adult, women included are in DASTAARS. Its the so called "punjabi sikhs" who have discarded their Kesh and wear hats to try and FIT in witht he whites...who DONT DARE enter these Gurdwars for fear of feeling SHAME at the Betrayal of their GURU who was Born in PUNJAB.>>
i am not a big fan of punjabi/white/non punjabi or whatever gurdwaras that we find aplenty nowadays, those are nothing but symbols of ego.
and use of words like SHAME, BETRAYAL exactly show what many people go through when they meet those super inflated egos. thanks for upping my point.
<<There is NO LOGIC..in the assertion that Janeau makes a Hindu better..or the khayffeah a better muslim..or the Gatra kirpan a better Sikh. Neither is there any LOGIC in that..REMOVING a Janeau makes a better Hindu...taking away the pardah makes a better Muslim..and taking away his gatra kirpan/Dastaar instantly transforms an ordinary Sikh into a Baba banda Singh bahadur>>>
exactly, so you agree that outward appearances do not make a better person. atleast we agree on that.
To me a person who's daily life actions resonate with the teachings of SGGS, in whatever physical attire he/she maybe, is more respectable than one with outward "OVERWHELMING" appearances only ...just my two cents
also you have completely misunderstood my point- what i meant was that wearing or not wearing a turban does not make a better sikh. A turban is a cultural representation and to tie that to allegiance to SGGS's teachings is as ridiculous as brahmins linking wearing janeu to being a devout hindu. let me know if you have anything to add with or against that assertion.
<<To be entirely TRUTHFUL... I am a Dastardhree amritdharee..and I have met MORE "hat wearers" who CLAIM they are better SIKHS simply because they shave daily....I havent yet met a single one of the opposite type. There may be many..BUT I havent met any yet. >>
on the contrary, i keep bumping into quite a few of the other type....different experiences maybe
<<<Its maybe becasue the "dsatar wallahs" get all the "plum sevas" automatically...no one even casts a second look when they sit tabiah..begin kirtan..patth..or serve parshaad.>>
is that your interpretation of Seva?
Brahmins also gave water to Sun to carry to their Pitrs...calling it Pind Daan, but was it Daan really?
i thought Seva was something else
<<and the SHAVEN HEADS in their tiny Handkerchiefs..feel they are being "stared at"...( dare i say inferiority complex)..then feel COMPELLED to DEFEND their INNER SPIRITUAL 'SUPERIORITY" over the dastarwallahs !!..by saying things like..oh dharree wallah smoke kardah see..oh paggh wallah sherab peendah see..etc etc to show that the pugghwllahs are indeed SPIRITUALLY VACANT as compared to their overflowing spirituality !!
I take all these in my stride..come across such types all over the INTERNET as well...so far no one has yet invented a Meter/instrument to MEASURE SPIRITUALITY....so all we have to go on is OUTSIDE APPEARANCE....and reality is in a GURDWARA..the Dastarwakllahs OUTSIDE appearance is OVERWHELMING.>>>
inferiority complex is a very complex emotional state
and many a times it is induced by environmental factors rather than the person himself..
so if the environment is not "hostile", i doubt if there would be any "inferiority complex"
i think we have still side tracked from the original discussion on how punjabi cultural symbols and rituals are running amok in the Sikhi mainstream and how Sikhi has been unable to adapt to each person's local environment and culture.
Guru Nanak was born in punjab, i wonder why he did not make people wear the punjabi dress in his travels across the world?
ever wondered that why he did not do it?
because the thing that was important was the "message" and "teachings" and not the physical appearance.
<<The White SIKHS dont go to any "punjabi" Gurdawaras..so no question of any punjabi ridicule etc. They have their own Gurdawars where EVERYONE..from Toddler to adult, women included are in DASTAARS. Its the so called "punjabi sikhs" who have discarded their Kesh and wear hats to try and FIT in witht he whites...who DONT DARE enter these Gurdwars for fear of feeling SHAME at the Betrayal of their GURU who was Born in PUNJAB.>>
i am not a big fan of punjabi/white/non punjabi or whatever gurdwaras that we find aplenty nowadays, those are nothing but symbols of ego.
and use of words like SHAME, BETRAYAL exactly show what many people go through when they meet those super inflated egos. thanks for upping my point.
<<There is NO LOGIC..in the assertion that Janeau makes a Hindu better..or the khayffeah a better muslim..or the Gatra kirpan a better Sikh. Neither is there any LOGIC in that..REMOVING a Janeau makes a better Hindu...taking away the pardah makes a better Muslim..and taking away his gatra kirpan/Dastaar instantly transforms an ordinary Sikh into a Baba banda Singh bahadur>>>
exactly, so you agree that outward appearances do not make a better person. atleast we agree on that.
To me a person who's daily life actions resonate with the teachings of SGGS, in whatever physical attire he/she maybe, is more respectable than one with outward "OVERWHELMING" appearances only ...just my two cents
also you have completely misunderstood my point- what i meant was that wearing or not wearing a turban does not make a better sikh. A turban is a cultural representation and to tie that to allegiance to SGGS's teachings is as ridiculous as brahmins linking wearing janeu to being a devout hindu. let me know if you have anything to add with or against that assertion.
<<To be entirely TRUTHFUL... I am a Dastardhree amritdharee..and I have met MORE "hat wearers" who CLAIM they are better SIKHS simply because they shave daily....I havent yet met a single one of the opposite type. There may be many..BUT I havent met any yet. >>
on the contrary, i keep bumping into quite a few of the other type....different experiences maybe
<<<Its maybe becasue the "dsatar wallahs" get all the "plum sevas" automatically...no one even casts a second look when they sit tabiah..begin kirtan..patth..or serve parshaad.>>
is that your interpretation of Seva?
Brahmins also gave water to Sun to carry to their Pitrs...calling it Pind Daan, but was it Daan really?
i thought Seva was something else
<<and the SHAVEN HEADS in their tiny Handkerchiefs..feel they are being "stared at"...( dare i say inferiority complex)..then feel COMPELLED to DEFEND their INNER SPIRITUAL 'SUPERIORITY" over the dastarwallahs !!..by saying things like..oh dharree wallah smoke kardah see..oh paggh wallah sherab peendah see..etc etc to show that the pugghwllahs are indeed SPIRITUALLY VACANT as compared to their overflowing spirituality !!
I take all these in my stride..come across such types all over the INTERNET as well...so far no one has yet invented a Meter/instrument to MEASURE SPIRITUALITY....so all we have to go on is OUTSIDE APPEARANCE....and reality is in a GURDWARA..the Dastarwakllahs OUTSIDE appearance is OVERWHELMING.>>>
inferiority complex is a very complex emotional state
and many a times it is induced by environmental factors rather than the person himself..
so if the environment is not "hostile", i doubt if there would be any "inferiority complex"
i think we have still side tracked from the original discussion on how punjabi cultural symbols and rituals are running amok in the Sikhi mainstream and how Sikhi has been unable to adapt to each person's local environment and culture.
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