Can Sikhs Eat Beef?

emm...nah..fanx..

i dont think i'll be eating them..fanx for da suggestion tho !!


do what you feel is right in your heart and from your understanding of Gurbani. i'm vegetarian... not because i think it's prohibited to eat meat, but because i try to live a simple, healthy life, and a vegetarian diet goes well with that. :)

the important thing is to avoid getting a lust for food. even veg food... if you lust for chocolates, it's no different than lusting for burgers. :) avoiding lust is a big part of being sikh.

keep it simple. God lives in every body, we should keep our body healthy to honour God.
 
emm..singh ji..am u amritdhari ??
No I want to be but half of the nitnem banis Amritdhari's are supposed to do come from dasam granth AKA <insert another made up name>, and that book ain't for everyone. :}:):
But anyway, check out Randip Singh Ji's articles, I think it's called Fools who wrangle over Flesh.
Are you a homo sapien (human), anonymous kaur?
As far as I know, homo sapiens have teeth made for both plant meat and animal meat. We are omnivores(all-eaters) not herbivores(plant-eaters). And gurbani does not deny this.
 
No I want to be but half of the nitnem banis Amritdhari's are supposed to do come from dasam granth AKA <insert another made up name>, and that book ain't for everyone. :}:):


what? "singh sabha international" of canada hasn't created their own version of amrit sanchar yet? :}{}{}:


(yes, i know it's another topic, but i couldn't resist. :) )
 
what? "singh sabha international" of canada hasn't created their own version of amrit sanchar yet? :}{}{}:


(yes, i know it's another topic, but i couldn't resist. :) )
:}{}{}: Hehe, Singh Sabha International of Canada?!? Good one! :D

Meh...:}:): I am not gona bother with amrit sanchar, I am starting to think it's the spirit of the person, not the sweetened water that provides the strength. I think Guru Gobind Singh started it because it probably attracted more attention than simply stating that you have to follow certain rules etc.
 
:}{}{}: Hehe, Singh Sabha International of Canada?!? Good one! :D

Meh...:}:): I am not gona bother with amrit sanchar, I am starting to think it's the spirit of the person, not the sweetened water that provides the strength. I think Guru Gobind Singh started it because it probably attracted more attention than simply stating that you have to follow certain rules etc.


ya, i thought it was funny that a small canadian based group would name themselves after the major sikh reform movement myself. :)

anyway, to each his own path. :)
 


oh, sorry.

there's a canadian based organization called "singh sabha international". they are strongly anti-dasam granth (please let's not do that debate here). i can only assume they use the "singh sabha" name to confuse people, as they're unrelated to most "singh sabha" gurdwaras in north america.

sorry for the confusion. :)
 
oh, sorry.

there's a canadian based organization called "singh sabha international". they are strongly anti-dasam granth (please let's not do that debate here). i can only assume they use the "singh sabha" name to confuse people, as they're unrelated to most "singh sabha" gurdwaras in north america.

sorry for the confusion. :)

Just for clarification.they do not believe that a sikh should have hair.The name singh sabha is given to confuse people.

Bahagt singh, we have another thread going on Dasam granth.if you have anything to say on Dasam granth ,please post there.It comes under "Hard Talk".
 
Just for clarification.they do not believe that a sikh should have hair.The name singh sabha is given to confuse people.

Bahagt singh, we have another thread going on Dasam granth.if you have anything to say on Dasam granth ,please post there.It comes under "Hard Talk".
Okee Dokee
Could you provide a link to their site?
 
In the Sikh Kingdom, cow slaughter was punishable as a crime. It was part of British colonialism which brought halal butchers and beef into Punjab. And this was resisted with Cow Protection movement of both Hindus and Sikhs.

Why?

These arguments are based on certain assumptions. The asumptions are that the cow is just an animal. Killing of an animal is fine, like it is a nothing. A cow is nothing to be superstitious about. So by not being superstitious, people demean a cow to something less than life? By not being superstitious we no longer believe in spiritual principles? This mental trick makes a cow into a commodity to be used and destroyed at human whim. A butcher can recite prayers of blessing (halal) over the slaughtered cow and render it spiritually fit for consumption. And the only element which is wrong here is the Muslim prayers, and not the hypocrisy of blessing in the name of God the killing of an innocent creature for selfishness and greed?
ijau imil bCry gaU pRIiq lgwvY ] (164-11, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 4)
ji-o mil bachhray ga-oo pareet lagaavai.
As the cow shows her love to her strayed calf when she finds it,

kwmin pRIiq jw ipru Gir AwvY ] (164-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 4)
kaaman pareet jaa pir ghar aavai.
and as the bride shows her love for her husband when he returns home,

hir jn pRIiq jw hir jsu gwvY ]2] (164-12, gauVI guAwryrI, mÚ 4)
har jan pareet jaa har jas gaavai. ||2||
so does the Lord's humble servant love to sing the Praises of the Lord. ||2||
hm bwirk hir ipqw pRB myry mo kau dyhu mqI ijqu hir pwvIAY ry ] (1118-8, kydwrw, mÚ 4)
ham baarik har pitaa parabh mayray mo ka-o dayh matee jit har paavee-ai ray.
I am a child, and You, O my Lord God, are my Father; please bless me with such understanding, that I may find the Lord.

ijau bCurw dyiK gaU suKu mwnY iqau nwnk hir gil lwvIAY ry ]4]1] (1118-9, kydwrw, mÚ 4)
ji-o bachhuraa daykh ga-oo sukh maanai ti-o naanak har gal laavee-ai ray. ||4||1||
Like the cow, which is happy upon seeing her calf, O Lord, please hug Nanak close in Your Embrace. ||4||1||
Gurbani describes the cow as a loving mother. Not an object worthy of indifferent slaughter to appease the lusts of our taste.

kwmDyn hir hir gux gwm ] (265-5, gauVI suKmnI, mÚ 5)
kaamDhayn har har gun gaam.
The Khaamadhayn, the cow of miraculous powers, is the singing of the Glory of the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
How can a cow be fit for a life of neglect, misery and slaughter for human enjoyment if a cow can be holy and praise the God? Gurbani does not say worship the cow. It isn't proof that you don't worship a cow by showing disrespect for the life of the living being. Gurbani is acknowledging that holiness can be present in the life of a cow.

pauxu gurU pwxI ipq jwqw ] (1021-2, mwrU, mÚ 1)
pa-un guroo paanee pit jaataa.
Air is the Guru, and water is known to be the father.

audr sMjogI DrqI mwqw ] (1021-2, mwrU, mÚ 1)
udar sanjogee Dhartee maataa.
The womb of the great mother earth gives birth to all.

rYix idnsu duie dweI dwieAw jgu KylY KylweI hy ]10] (1021-3, mwrU, mÚ 1)
rain dinas du-ay daa-ee daa-i-aa jag khaylai khaylaa-ee hay. ||10||
Night and day are the two nurses, male and female; the world plays in this play. ||10||

Awpy mCulI Awpy jwlw ] (1021-3, mwrU, mÚ 1)
aapay machhulee aapay jaalaa.
You Yourself are the fish, and You Yourself are the net.

Awpy gaU Awpy rKvwlw ] (1021-4, mwrU, mÚ 1)
aapay ga-oo aapay rakhvaalaa.
You Yourself are the cows, and You yourself are their keeper.

srb jIAw jig joiq qumwrI jYsI pRiB PurmweI hy ]11] (1021-4, mwrU, mÚ 1)
sarab jee-aa jag jot tumaaree jaisee parabh furmaa-ee hay. ||11||
Your Light fills all the beings of the world; they walk according to Your Command, O God. ||11||

Kwk nUr krdM Awlm dunIAwie ] (723-13, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
khaak noor kardaN aalam dunee-aa-ay.
The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe.

Asmwn ijmI drKq Awb pYdwieis Kudwie ]1] (723-14, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
asmaan jimee darkhat aab paidaa-is khudaa-ay. ||1||
The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. ||1||

bMdy csm dIdM Pnwie ] (723-14, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
banday chasam deedaN fanaa-ay.
O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish.

dunˆØIAw murdwr KurdnI gwPl hvwie ] rhwau ] (723-14, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
duneeN-aa murdaar khurdanee gaafal havaa-ay. rahaa-o.
The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. ||Pause||

gYbwn hYvwn hrwm kusqnI murdwr bKorwie ] (723-15, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
gaibaan haivaan haraam kustanee murdaar bakhoraa-ay.
Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat.

idl kbj kbjw kwdro dojk sjwie ]2] (723-15, iqlµg, mÚ 5)
dil kabaj kabjaa kaadro dojak sajaa-ay. ||2||
So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. ||2||

kbIr KUbu Kwnw KIcrI jw mih AMimRqu lonu ] (1374-12, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)
kabeer khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa meh amrit lon.
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt.

hyrw rotI kwrny glw ktwvY kaunu ]188] (1374-12, slok, Bgq kbIr jI)
hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kataavai ka-un. ||188||
Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? ||188||

hwtI bwtI rhih inrwly rUiK ibriK auidAwny ] (938-19, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
haatee baatee raheh niraalay rookh birakh udi-aanay.
"Away from stores and highways, we live in the woods, among plants and trees.

kMd mUlu Ahwro KweIAY AauDU bolY igAwny ] (938-19, rwmklI, mÚ 1)
kand mool ahaaro khaa-ee-ai a-oDhoo bolai gi-aanay.
For food, we take fruits and roots. This is the spiritual wisdom spoken by the renunciates.

kil hoeI kuqy muhI Kwju hoAw murdwru ] (1242-18, swrMg, mÚ 1)
kal ho-ee kutay muhee khaaj ho-aa murdaar.
In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; they eat rotting carcasses for food.

kUVu boil boil Baukxw cUkw Drmu bIcwru ] (1242-19, swrMg, mÚ 1)
koorh bol bol bha-ukanaa chookaa Dharam beechaar.
They bark and speak, telling only lies; all thought of righteousness has left them.

ijn jIvMidAw piq nhI muieAw mMdI soie ] (1242-19, swrMg, mÚ 1)
jin jeevandi-aa pat nahee mu-i-aa mandee so-ay.
Those who have no honor while alive, will have an evil reputation after they die.
Just look at how maya works. We don't see the truth of things...we just see the pretty wrapper. It's more pleasant that way. But not seeing the truth of something doesn't stop it from being true.

What is the truth about Western cow diet? The truth is demonic brutality and curse of disease. 85% of milk in America is infected with Bovine leukemia virus associated with human breast cancer and childhood leukemia. Mad Cow disease is spreading because of insane agricultural practices. The association between Creuztsfeldt-Jacob (human mad cow disease) disease and Alzheimers is very unclear. A possibility remains that an epidemic of mad cow disease is hiding from the public as Alzheimers dementia. Cancer is caused by eating meat prepared in such barbarous and grotesque fashion. No one in their right mind could think the cattle industry is morally right. This is contaminated and diseased food obtained by animal cruelty and indifference to life itself.

Bovine leukemia virus and human breast cancer risk
Research Page: Bovine leukemia virus and human breast cancer risk

Thinking the unthinkable: Alzheimer's, Creutzfeldt-Jakob and Mad Cow disease
http://www.cababstractsplus.org/google/abstract.asp?AcNo=20053037405

Avoid meat in all forms. It is dead matter, low in minerals, and produces uric acid in excess which is a waste product. The incidence of cancer is in direct proportion to the amount of animal proteins, particularly meat, in the diet. However it is true that devitalized, processed, and sugared food can also cause cancer—even in vegetarians. But far more often, when cancer strikes, those eating the junk foods are also eating meat. Nations and groups which consume less meat have less cancer.

FAQ - Why Do Alternative Cancer Therapies Forbid Meat?
Cow protection? Why not? Animal slaughter is demonic. And the chemicals produced by the suffering, fear and stress of such treatment is eaten in foods prepared for human beings. People are eating suffering and disease in these carcasses. What a curse. Why choose a curse for your life and hide ugly deeds with religious sanction as if God does not see the truth.

This kind of industry isn't acceptable to Sikh religion. Not on your life. You just can't treat life this way and not reap the negativity in your own future. This is maha paap. You are eating poison. Don't deceive yourself.

People want to eat the hell of this nightmare?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjSlOOYIkCE

Largest Beef Recall in American History
YouTube - The Nations Largest Beef Recall in History...

Cow Protection USA
YouTube - MAD COW OR MAD HUMAN DISEASE ?

cow_calf2.jpg

What you eat today will influence the way you think which in turn will influence the way you look ,which in turn will influence your future.

Eat lovingly And you will be loved ,eat mercilessly and the world will not be compassionate towards you.

KARMA FREE

~Bhul chak maaf
 
Gurbani describes the cow as a loving mother. Not an object worthy of indifferent slaughter to appease the lusts of our taste.


It describes cow as a loving mother, but it does not say anything about slaughtering it.

How can a cow be fit for a life of neglect, misery and slaughter for human enjoyment if a cow can be holy and praise the God? Gurbani does not say worship the cow. It isn't proof that you don't worship a cow by showing disrespect for the life of the living being. Gurbani is acknowledging that holiness can be present in the life of a cow.


Anything, could worhsip and praise the lord. So why would you eat anything?
 
In the Sikh Kingdom, cow slaughter was punishable as a crime. It was part of British colonialism which brought halal butchers and beef into Punjab. And this was resisted with Cow Protection movement of both Hindus and Sikhs.

Why?

These arguments are based on certain assumptions. The asumptions are that the cow is just an animal. Killing of an animal is fine, like it is a nothing. A cow is nothing to be superstitious about. So by not being superstitious, people demean a cow to something less than life? By not being superstitious we no longer believe in spiritual principles? This mental trick makes a cow into a commodity to be used and destroyed at human whim. A butcher can recite prayers of blessing (halal) over the slaughtered cow and render it spiritually fit for consumption. And the only element which is wrong here is the Muslim prayers, and not the hypocrisy of blessing in the name of God the killing of an innocent creature for selfishness and greed?


Gurbani describes the cow as a loving mother. Not an object worthy of indifferent slaughter to appease the lusts of our taste.



wouldn't this apply to ALL animals, not just cows in particular?
 
wouldn't this apply to ALL animals, not just cows in particular?
Yes! But the discussion is about cows in particular. Animal slaughter is morally troubling. Vegetarianism is a spiritually disciplined way to live your life...and eating meat is not.

Anything, could worhsip and praise the lord. So why would you eat anything?
You did not watch the videos of slaughterhouses? You did not hear the animals screaming? Could you possibly make the comparision between a cow and a potato? There are higher and lower forms of life. Eating a cabbage does not spill blood or elicit fear and screaming from a sentient being. If something you eat is bleeding and has to suffer pain and be killed to satisfy your lust for certain taste, you can imagine the karmic consequences of such actions.

Even Gurbani describes that certain animals, such as tiger were designed to be meat-eating. Human beings can eat both vegetarian and meat diets. But look at the health differences between them. The discussion revolves around "what is acceptable to Sikh religion." You have free choice. But don't blindly wrap this animal cruelty and slaughter in a neat hamburger package and say it is perfectly consistent with a spiritual teaching, because it clearly is not.


At some point, we have to be accountable for our actions. It's no sewa to society to promote sick, contaminated foods. We need to make better, dharmically healthier choices than these. It's sad that in the name of Sikh religion, people don't defend human health or even kindness to animals. But rather defend their own denials and evil actions that torment living beings.
For hundreds of thousands of years the stew in the pot

Has brewed hatred and resentment that is difficult to stop.

If you wish to know why there are disasters of armies and weapons in the world,

Listen to the piteous cries from the slaughter house at midnight.
 
i do love your display pic, bhenji. :)
wouldn't this apply to ALL animals, not just cows in particular?
Yes! But the discussion is about cows in particular. Animal slaughter is morally troubling. Vegetarianism is a spiritually disciplined way to live your life...and eating meat is not.


i wanted to clarify this, because some Sikhs have been influenced by Hindu groups and believe that eating other meat is acceptable but eating cow is not.

it seems like it should be either all or nothing. i just wanted to note that the cow holds no special place above other animals in Sikhi that i am aware of.
 
Yes! But the discussion is about cows in particular. Animal slaughter is morally troubling. Vegetarianism is a spiritually disciplined way to live your life...and eating meat is not.
How do you know?

You did not watch the videos of slaughterhouses? You did not hear the animals screaming? Could you possibly make the comparision between a cow and a potato?

Yes I hear onion screaming when I cut them. Sometimes i even break into tears. Plants are living things as well, just because they don't "scream" doesn't mean they want you to eat them. They have other ways of trying to keep you away. For example, bad taste (most common), onions making you cry, releasing toxins.

There are higher and lower forms of life.

Gurbani says there is God in all so who is high and who is low?
Eating a cabbage does not spill blood or elicit fear and screaming from a sentient being.

Yes it does, just because plants don't have red blood( with hemoglobin) doesn't mean they don't have any.
If something you eat is bleeding and has to suffer pain and be killed to satisfy your lust for certain taste, you can imagine the karmic consequences of such actions.

well, who doesn't lust for food? I used to be a vegetarian and lusted for vegetarian foods. Now I am a non vegetarian, and I still lust for vegetarian foods but not non-veg foods.

Even Gurbani describes that certain animals, such as tiger were designed to be meat-eating. Human beings can eat both vegetarian and meat diets. But look at the health differences between them.

Well, non-veg is more healthy. Excess of everything is bad, alot of meat or apple, will have bad effects on your body.
The discussion revolves around "what is acceptable to Sikh religion." You have free choice. But don't blindly wrap this animal cruelty and slaughter in a neat hamburger package and say it is perfectly consistent with a spiritual teaching, because it clearly is not.
Animal cruelty?? What about vegetable cruelty!!??!!
It is perfectly consistent. Look at Guru Nanak, he ate meat.
At this place, Hindus were like don't cook when there is a solar eclispse. Guru Nanak grabs some meat and cooks it, when the solar eclipse came. I don't think he would waste it.
Look at Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind Singh, we all know they hunted. Now they wouldn't waste precious meat, would they?
At some point, we have to be accountable for our actions. It's no sewa to society to promote sick, contaminated foods.

Yes, we have to wash the stuff we eat. I agree!:D
We need to make better, dharmically healthier choices than these. It's sad that in the name of Sikh religion, people don't defend human health or even kindness to animals. But rather defend their own denials and evil actions that torment living beings.
and kindness to vegetables.
There is no spiritual benefit from not eating animal meat. So, stop making up stuff, if you don't want to eat that's fine.
 

Randip Singh

Writer
Historian
SPNer
Yes! But the discussion is about cows in particular. Animal slaughter is morally troubling. Vegetarianism is a spiritually disciplined way to live your life...and eating meat is not.


You did not watch the videos of slaughterhouses? You did not hear the animals screaming? Could you possibly make the comparision between a cow and a potato? There are higher and lower forms of life. Eating a cabbage does not spill blood or elicit fear and screaming from a sentient being. If something you eat is bleeding and has to suffer pain and be killed to satisfy your lust for certain taste, you can imagine the karmic consequences of such actions.

Even Gurbani describes that certain animals, such as tiger were designed to be meat-eating. Human beings can eat both vegetarian and meat diets. But look at the health differences between them. The discussion revolves around "what is acceptable to Sikh religion." You have free choice. But don't blindly wrap this animal cruelty and slaughter in a neat hamburger package and say it is perfectly consistent with a spiritual teaching, because it clearly is not.


At some point, we have to be accountable for our actions. It's no sewa to society to promote sick, contaminated foods. We need to make better, dharmically healthier choices than these. It's sad that in the name of Sikh religion, people don't defend human health or even kindness to animals. But rather defend their own denials and evil actions that torment living beings.

Most of what you are talking about has been tackled here, and Bani you have stated above has been rebutted and shown to be mistranslated, misquoted or misrepresented. There is only ONE reference directly to meat in Bani, the rest are spurious:

Page 1289 Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

mehlaa 1.
maas maas kar moorakh jhagrhay gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee jaanai.
ka-un maas ka-un saag kahaavai kis meh paap samaanay.
gaiNdaa maar hom jag kee-ay dayviti-aa kee baanay.
maas chhod bais nak pakrheh raatee maanas khaanay.
farh kar lokaaN no dikhlaavahi gi-aan Dhi-aan nahee soojhai.
naanak anDhay si-o ki-aa kahee-ai kahai na kahi-aa boojhai.
anDhaa so-ay je anDh kamaavai tis ridai se lochan naahee.
maat pitaa kee rakat nipannay machhee maas na khaaNhee.

First Mehl:
The fools argue about flesh and meat, but they know nothing about meditation and spiritual wisdom.
What is called meat, and what is called green vegetables? What leads to sin?
It was the habit of the gods to kill the rhinoceros, and make a feast of the burnt offering.
Those who renounce meat, and hold their noses when sitting near it, devour men at night.
They practice hypocrisy, and make a show before other people, but they do not understand anything about meditation or spiritual wisdom.
O Nanak, what can be said to the blind people? They cannot answer, or even understand what is said.
They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes in their hearts.
They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat.
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji

There is nothing special in Bani about a cow,. This is a hangover from Vaishnavism (and Hinduism in general).

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/8828-fools-who-wrangle-over-flesh.html

There

Suffice to say I find your arguments inconsistent and I cannot reconcile the so called cruelty to animals with cruelty to plants:

Page 143 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

mehlaa 1.
vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.
khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.
ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.
bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.
naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay.

First Mehl:
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated!
Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji


Sikhism places no such emphasis on a particular diet for spirituality. It is a matter for individual conscience.
 

Astroboy

ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)
Writer
SPNer
ਸਚੀ ਕਾਰੈ ਸਚੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਲੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
sachee kaarai sach milai guramath palai paae ||
By true actions, the True Lord is met, and the Guru's Teachings are found.

ਸੋ ਨਰੁ ਜੰਮੈ ਨਾ ਮਰੈ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
so nar janmai naa marai naa aavai naa jaae ||
Then, they are not subject to birth and death; they do not come and go in reincarnation.


ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਿ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਸੋ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਪੈਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥੪॥੧੪॥
naanak dhar paradhhaan so dharagehi paidhhaa jaae ||4||14||
O Nanak, they are respected at the Lord's Gate; they are robed in honor in the Court of the Lord.

So what is true action ?
Answer found in Sidh Gost.
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sidh-gosht/5309-sidh-gosht-gurumukhi-script-english-transleration.html

Happy Hunting!!
 
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