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Islam Black Magic

palaingtha

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Aug 28, 2012
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_/|\_ Sat nam

Palaingtha ji

Could you translate the following into English? peacesign



Blessed Be
Nam Jiwan
Reply:-
Karam Kamao means Earn good deeds in this incarnation as a human being.
Nam Japo means Remember the name of God (with your every breath and with every morsel you take)
Wand Chako means share your food with others( here it means feed the down trodden and hungry people) and
Jo Beejai so Luooneh means what one sows reaps the harvest(here it means what you do to others returns to you as fruit, good for good deeds and bad for bad actions). There is another shlok " Beejai Bhik, mange Amrit" which means One sows poison and expects/wants nectar in return.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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in the early 70's i was uni student in singapore. back then i used to carry a single $1000 dollar note under my joorra covered over with my keski and then dastaar...so obviously safe and secret (emergency use). I had a standing instruction for my salary to be banked in to my account and i made do with the extras i made form tuition etc...so essentially i had only "so much" cash on me at any one time...24/7 langgar and Gurdawar programmes helped a lot too..so this one sunday i arrived at Queens Street Gurdawra..there was this guy near the nishan sahib entertaining a crowd with his "magic"...I too joined the crowd...after a while he asked for "volunteers"....some had their wrist watches disappear..only to be found in that "flower pot" over there..or in that persons pocket over here..finally it was my turn..he told me..go outside on Queen Street..and buy back a durian...a thorny fruit in season then..I brought it back..he opened it...with some effort...and out came a $1000 note !! He asked me..is this YOURS ? I said NO..i DONT have $1000 !!..He replied..its YOURS..here Take it...i dont want you going home and getting disappointed. I took it and put it in my pocket..Back home I took off my dastaar..undid my keski..and my joorra...NO $ 1000 NOTE !! NOTHING.
I cant explain and never have seen that person again...but i still dont beleive in any magic...How MY $ note was removed..and put into an unopened durian fruit..being sold by a fruit vendor in a public market...???? just too many probablities..mysterious..YES..magic..YES..BLACK ?? NO.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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I'm not sure if I understand this clearly!!
But what exactly is it about ''Karma'' that you don't believe.
I mean, is it the laws of karma, is it the karma philosophy which does vary with different religions or is it just the whole word and concept of such a thing called 'karma'.

Please explain a little.

For ME..Karm..are the ACTIONS...conscious as well as sub conscious..my MANN and BODY commit/do/carry out. I Beleive GURBANI is for the LIVING..to Change/transform (manas te DEVTEH keeyeah...Kartoot Passu kee Manas Jaat...jaisah beejeh taisah loonneh..Beejeh KIKKAR..expects RAISINS as farid Ji expresses...Plant Apple tree and eat Apples..if you wait for GRAPES..to grow on an Apple tree perhaps its your Karma to be disappointed ?? he he)...The MANN creates..invents..dreams..nightmares..fears..etc etc etc..and the BODY carries these out...its the MANN which is RESTLESS and Gurabi instructs..MANN JEETEH...JAAG JEET...IF the Mann is STILLED..the WORLDLY BATTLE is WON...we RULE the WORLD...freedom form maya..freedom from fear..of death sickness, Chinta taan kee keejeah jaan annhonne hoyeh..why worry when this has been happening all along to everyone and will happen to us one day..YET each one FEARS DEATH...GURBANI REMOVES this FEAR...and makes us AMAR...thats the CHANGE we aim for...needlessly worrying arguing about past births joons stoens or was I a pig ?/ or will i be a PIG ?/ etc are useless exercises..KARAM GET INSTANT RESULTS...the MOMENT i maar soemone HAAK (paraya haak us soor us gayeh..) I KNOW what it means...IF I continue and DO it agian and again..i become insensitive to my CHITRGUPT...and DISREGARD THEM.....my conscience goes into COMA..and I become a DEVIL..a TYRANT...a MANMUKH...and the MOMENT like Sajjan THUGGH..I CHANGE...I TRANSFORM from THUGGH into SAJJAN THE GURMUKH beloved of GURU NANAK...Sajjan did NOT WAIT for "DEATH" before his so called Karams REWARDED HIM..He CHANGED HERE AND NOW !!! Thats why GURU NANAK JI WROTE GURBANI..its for NOW...not some alien planet in some alien yug where I will be a PIG and bleating for help..IF I want to STOP being a PIG..i got to DIET right here and NOW...or I will DIE a PIG ( and need a ton of wood to burn all that fat ??)

I hope i make sense...PRESENT...HERE...NOW...manmukh to GURMUKH..die a GURMUKH..Mann jeethe Jagjeet..VICTORY while ALIVE..Jeewan MUKTEE...this is all i beleive IN...I sit for my PHd in SEPT 2012..I get my Doctorate in DECEMBER 2012...NOT on JUPITER in my next "janam"....as Dr Doolittle ??..I am a DR DOMORE/DR DOLESS.....here and NOW...:singhsippingcoffee:
 

Harry Haller

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Karam Kamao means Earn good deeds in this incarnation as a human being.
My father once said to me 'you have a luxury we never had', he was talking about the questions we ask, the ability to say 'uhm that didn't really happen did it'. We have the internet, we have resources to further our brains, to use logic, discretion, to argue points. He also said that if he had questioned everything that I do, his relationship with his father would not have been the same, and frankly, he was quite happy to accept everything his father told him. My Grandfather was a Gyani, and often it is said, that if he were alive today, he would not entertain some of my more 'modern' philosophies (lack of reincarnation, etc etc), I explained about the litmus test, and how important it is, to get a grip, a feel, on what Sikhism represents, rather than the countless Sakhis people rely on, he just smiled. My father, and indeed my mother were devoted children to their parents, even way into his fourties, my grandfather would suggest something to my Dad, and Dad would always entertain the suggestion, even if he did not agree with it, he would entertain it out of respect.

Palaingthaji, you are about the same age as my Grandfather would have been, if he were alive, I would like to apologise to you for not being able to show you the same respect that my Dad gave to his father.

I am familiar with Nam Japo, Wand Chakko, Kirat Karo.

Karam Kamao as you have explained, intimates one should earn good deeds in order to move on to the next level. I find this quite Abrahamic, in that instead of living a good life, and doing good, for the sake of doing good, one should keep ones eye on the goal of breaking this mythical cycle of birth and death. Could I respectfully ask for your comments, thank you.
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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JO beejeh so loonneh KARMA snadrra KHET....is a THIS WORLD Example form FARMING...your KARAMS are YOUR ACTIONS..the SEEDS you Plant in the KHET (human BODY). IF you plant EVIL thoughts, false promises, lies, YOUR BODY lies..cheats..murders, grabs paraya hakks...your tongue speaks lies..your hands steal..IF you Plant "love..compassion..your hands stroke lovingly..dogs..pets..cows..you hands serve food to the hungry..the poor..the destitute...your tongue speaks soothingly..softly...kind words..the BODY OBEYS THE MANN !!
 

Gyani Jarnail Singh

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Guru nanak ji was a farmer..He PLANTED..and waited a reasonable time...just as any farmer would do..3 months..6 months..nine..a year.....No one "plants" and then just waits for DEATH to see what he planted ???

DO GOOD TODAY...REAP THE REWARDS TODAY.....DO BAD TODAY...reap BAD TODAY...no POSTPONING ALLOWED !!! The Entire world would go haywire if everyone fell for this ''DO Good Today..get rewards IN NEXT LIFE !! Imagine a farmer just sowing his wheat and then going off to Hardwaar/Benares/Amritsar/hazoor sahib...whatever.. to wait..or even better go to HEMKUNT ( INVISIBLE SPIRIT because its after death and in another YUG remember ??) and meditate while waiting for Akal Purakh !! The Wheat would grow, ripen and rot.icecreammundaicecreammunda
 

namjiwankaur

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Nov 14, 2010
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Sat Nam _/|\_

Gyani ji

'DO Good Today..get rewards IN NEXT LIFE !!
Do you think it is because we are already living our next life? Are we perhaps only living the illusion of many lives? If we let the body describe life, we are tricked into all sorts of maya. If we let the soul describe life, the soul is Life Itself.

:)
Nam Jiwan
 

palaingtha

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Aug 28, 2012
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My father once said to me 'you have a luxury we never had', he was talking about the questions we ask, the ability to say 'uhm that didn't really happen did it'. We have the internet, we have resources to further our brains, to use logic, discretion, to argue points. He also said that if he had questioned everything that I do, his relationship with his father would not have been the same, and frankly, he was quite happy to accept everything his father told him. My Grandfather was a Gyani, and often it is said, that if he were alive today, he would not entertain some of my more 'modern' philosophies (lack of reincarnation, etc etc), I explained about the litmus test, and how important it is, to get a grip, a feel, on what Sikhism represents, rather than the countless Sakhis people rely on, he just smiled. My father, and indeed my mother were devoted children to their parents, even way into his fourties, my grandfather would suggest something to my Dad, and Dad would always entertain the suggestion, even if he did not agree with it, he would entertain it out of respect.

Palaingthaji, you are about the same age as my Grandfather would have been, if he were alive, I would like to apologise to you for not being able to show you the same respect that my Dad gave to his father.

I am familiar with Nam Japo, Wand Chakko, Kirat Karo.

Karam Kamao as you have explained, intimates one should earn good deeds in order to move on to the next level. I find this quite Abrahamic, in that instead of living a good life, and doing good, for the sake of doing good, one should keep ones eye on the goal of breaking this mythical cycle of birth and death. Could I respectfully ask for your comments, thank you.
Sikhism believes in birth, death, rebirth cycle. Our destination(the soul's) is to Merge with the Supreme Being, Waheguru. Till then we are in the process of earning our good deeds and avoidance of unintentional misdeeds. The day we have all the qualities of the GOD (not powers) we are liberated from this cycle of Birth death and Rebirth. Till you believe this you are wandering in Abrahamic philosophy YOURSELF.
 

palaingtha

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Aug 28, 2012
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Guru nanak ji was a farmer..He PLANTED..and waited a reasonable time...just as any farmer would do..3 months..6 months..nine..a year.....No one "plants" and then just waits for DEATH to see what he planted ???

DO GOOD TODAY...REAP THE REWARDS TODAY.....DO BAD TODAY...reap BAD TODAY...no POSTPONING ALLOWED !!! The Entire world would go haywire if everyone fell for this ''DO Good Today..get rewards IN NEXT LIFE !! Imagine a farmer just sowing his wheat and then going off to Hardwaar/Benares/Amritsar/hazoor sahib...whatever.. to wait..or even better go to HEMKUNT ( INVISIBLE SPIRIT because its after death and in another YUG remember ??) and meditate while waiting for Akal Purakh !! The Wheat would grow, ripen and rot.icecreammundaicecreammunda
My reply:-

I see around me people taking bribes, manufacturing and selling artificial medicines, AND other imitative commodities are more respected than those who earn a living by honest labor for the PURCHASING POWER THEY WIELD. These people can donate bigger amounts to Gurdwaras, live a lavish life, own cars and kothis and have big bank balances. The Government of India gives to Govt. servants additional dearness allowance whenever cost of living touches certain points at the cost of people who have fixed incomes. Government servants in India hardly work for 3 hours a day whereas in the private sector employees are asked to work 1 or 2 hours extra with no overtime payment and the poor fellows have to oblige the employer for fear of loosing the job. Here you can see the wrong doer is flourishing, their sons and daughters are getting highly educated etc.etc.What about the doctors charging exorbitant fees, asking their patients to get several tests done and thereby earn for himself commission from the Labs.
It is if you do good you have no burden on your soul and you feel good for the truthful path you have chosen. But you may have to live in poverty which causes misery in life. The cheats look down upon you as if you are a pauper. You are ignored in the society being a person of low means.
The only solace the honest man has a clean conscious and a binding with God for his honest deeds.
 

Harry Haller

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Jan 31, 2011
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Sikhism believes in birth, death, rebirth cycle. Our destination(the soul's) is to Merge with the Supreme Being, Waheguru. Till then we are in the process of earning our good deeds and avoidance of unintentional misdeeds. The day we have all the qualities of the GOD (not powers) we are liberated from this cycle of Birth death and Rebirth. Till you believe this you are wandering in Abrahamic philosophy YOURSELF.
To say that Sikhism believes in the above is quite a sweeping statement, not all Sikhs believe in reincarnation, some believe in death, which is clearly not Abrahamic.

You have not answered my question at all, I guess my father was right, your generation is steeped in your own mythology and traditions, bring on the Sakhis! enjoy! learn!

BTW how can you avoid an unintentional misdeed?
 

naben

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Feb 19, 2012
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At the time of the Prophet Solomon and Moses
Peace be upon them


So

Dear brother, herein, I recommend you, your wife, your relatives, and whoever else experiences these fears with the following:



1. Connect yourselves to Allah sincerely, abide by the legal obligations, refrain from unlawful things, always be pure and always busy yourselves with the remembrance of Allah! Thus, you will protect yourselves from the evil whisperings of the Satan, from magic, and from every evil doing of man and the Devils.



2. Keep these ideas away from your minds as if they do not exist! Thinking of these matters in itself prepares the ground for such illusions and makes the soul fertile to receive misfortunes.



3. Try to keep away from enmities and from those who would use unlawful means to harm you!



4. Beware of those who deal with what are called "unusual sciences", for they look forward to your money before they think of your treatment!



5. Always recite the Holy Qur'an ', the Verse of al-Kursi (2:255) five times, and "astaghfirullah" (I ask Allah to forgive me) seventy times! ..
 

palaingtha

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To say that Sikhism believes in the above is quite a sweeping statement, not all Sikhs believe in reincarnation, some believe in death, which is clearly not Abrahamic.

You have not answered my question at all, I guess my father was right, your generation is steeped in your own mythology and traditions, bring on the Sakhis! enjoy! learn!

BTW how can you avoid an unintentional misdeed?
It is not right to take as principles of Sikhism about what some believe and some do not believe. The principles of any institutions or religion is fixed and it does not change at the whim of any person howsoever high/learned. When there are two opinions certainly one is the right one and the other a dud. When Guru Sahib says "Mar jahme Barambar......." the meaning is clear that man is born to die and and takes birth till Mukti is attained. Muslims do not believe in rebirth.
Regarding unintentional misdeed, since we are controlled by our conscious mind, we tend to apply our conscious mind and make a judgement of actions before doing anything or after having done some act. An honest man will not do a misdeed and when he realizes that he had done something wrong he would at once try to correct before any damage is done to someone, if at all that is possible.
Regarding my generation steeped in mythology there are Sikhs in their thirties who could not cut the imbelical Hinduism cord and are deep in Karam Kand. The men do not eat meat on Tuesdays, Visit an astrologer before they start any new venture, compare Tewa of their sons and daughters before their marriage and go to Gurdwara especially on Sangrands etc. and the women folk practice fasting for longevity of their husbands life, adorn Sindhoor and hang Mangal Sootra in their necks, celebrate Diwali with Lakshmi pooja and much more of the Karam Kand. No such things in my household since the time of my childhood.You raise objections at your whim and misinterpret Gurbani and further go on to say that I am steeped in mythology.
 

Harry Haller

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It is not right to take as principles of Sikhism about what some believe and some do not believe.
It is also not right to press on other people your own views and arrogantly assume they are correct. Although I do not believe in reincarnation, I respect your right to do so, and do not assume that my belief is the universal answer.

The principles of any institutions or religion is fixed and it does not change at the whim of any person howsoever high/learned
I find Sikhism unlike other religions where one has to 'learn'. One lives, and uses ones brain, one is guided by the SGGS. I have met many 'learned' people that are fools, they know huge amounts, but practice very little.

When there are two opinions certainly one is the right one and the other a dud.
maybe, but respect for all opinions, in my view is more important than trying to prove who has the dud.

When Guru Sahib says "Mar jahme Barambar......." the meaning is clear that man is born to die and and takes birth till Mukti is attained
That meaning may be clear to you, however Guru Sahib also says jo paiyah so eka vaar, what you get is once only, so we have stalemate........

No such things in my household since the time of my childhood.You raise objections at your whim and misinterpret Gurbani and further go on to say that I am steeped in mythology.
Firstly, I never accused you of being steeped in mythology, it was your generation. Secondly, you have still not answered the question I have now asked for your answer twice, that one earns good deeds to carry forward to the next life, in the absence of an answer, I can only assume you subscribe to a Vedic philosophy of karma and rebirth.

From your answers it is clear that you are not steeped in mythology, and for intimating that I apologise, no, its much worse, from your posts on the caste system and marriage, it is clear that you seek to impose your outdated views on all and sundry, to raise more Sikh robots that do what should be done, and marry who you think they should marry, you talk of tradition and discipline, of parental shame, none of these, in my view, are important to a Sikh, these are Punjabi traits, not Sikh ones. The only reason anyone should follow the teachings of the SGGS is love, and love alone.
 

palaingtha

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Aug 28, 2012
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It is also not right to press on other people your own views and arrogantly assume they are correct. Although I do not believe in reincarnation, I respect your right to do so, and do not assume that my belief is the universal answer.



I find Sikhism unlike other religions where one has to 'learn'. One lives, and uses ones brain, one is guided by the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I have met many 'learned' people that are fools, they know huge amounts, but practice very little.



maybe, but respect for all opinions, in my view is more important than trying to prove who has the dud.



That meaning may be clear to you, however Guru Sahib also says jo paiyah so eka vaar, what you get is once only, so we have stalemate........



Firstly, I never accused you of being steeped in mythology, it was your generation. Secondly, you have still not answered the question I have now asked for your answer twice, that one earns good deeds to carry forward to the next life, in the absence of an answer, I can only assume you subscribe to a Vedic philosophy of karma and rebirth.

From your answers it is clear that you are not steeped in mythology, and for intimating that I apologise, no, its much worse, from your posts on the caste system and marriage, it is clear that you seek to impose your outdated views on all and sundry, to raise more Sikh robots that do what should be done, and

marry who you think they should marry, you talk of tradition and diipline, of parental shame, none of these, in my view, are important to a Sikh, these are Punjabi traits, not Sikh ones. The only reason anyone should follow the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is love, and love alone.[/QUote


You are clubbing me in your grand father's generation thereby taking for granted that I am also steeped in mythology. If you do not mean this, then what you want to say when I belong to your grand dad's generation. It very much depends on ones childhood environment and how much contact he had with his religion.
Gurbani says nothing of this world will go with you when you leave this world but your good and bad deeds as also the nam simran you have done.
I have answered fully as much as the issue is concerned.
The matter is getting very personal (see you are dragging other issues in this matter) and I want to quit. You want to show you know better. You seem to have superiority complex, if I am not wrong.
The topic of "black magic" for me is hereby closed.


sc
 
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Luckysingh

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Palaingtha ji,
I appreciate that your over 80 years of age and you have taken time to talk to some of us on here.
I'm sorry if you feel some kind of predjudice for your age due to to some of the comments (ageist!)

I admire your views and style of expression. With regards to this topic of ''black magic''- I know you just can't brush it off because it has nothing to do with sikhi.
That's not the point, the problem is that sikhism is above all that stuff IF you embrace it.
When you embrace sikhism you embrace the TRUTH
It's the truth that overpowers all this vodoo, curses, devil worship or whatever.

However, too many of us live in FEAR. Too many of us are taught when young not to accept candy or anything from strangers in case it is cursed.
Too many of us are told not to cross the road on through a cross junction...etc..

THIS IS ALL ABOUT ''FEAR''

A Gurmukh has NO FEAR. -that's what sikhi teaches and ensures us.
But show me a Gurmukh out of a crowd!!!

Sadly, these things exist because we let them. Until we don't conquer these fears they will continue to exist and be among us.
It is too easy and foolish to deny them in the world we have made.

The quality of your input into this forum has been very good and is desperately needed at times. I'm sure you understand how us young ones are washed with wrong attitudes of misguided elders when it is simply NOT true.

Wisdom comes with AGE, not just with learning. In this aspect, you are way ahead than us lowlifes here.
I apologise if you felt offended.
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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I can only assume you subscribe to a Vedic philosophy of karma and rebirth.
Harry ji,
You speak like you are a scholar of Vedic Philosophy and Sikh philosophy, as you can identify it so well when someone gives their view. Isn't that so?

Please tell us about it. What do the Vedas say about Karma and Rebirth? With chapters and verse numbers will be very helpful.

Equally you claim to know Sikhism well as you challenged this statement by Palaingtha ji, "Sikhism believes in birth, death, rebirth cycle. Our destination(the soul's) is to Merge with the Supreme Being, Waheguru."
What does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji say about Karma and Rebirth? With pages and Verse numbers will be awesome.

Clearly some of us could use your guidance.

Thanks
 

Harry Haller

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BhagatSinghji

Must we speak in riddles? Must we persist in this nonsense? Allow me to translate what you are saying so I may respond

You speak like you are a scholar of Vedic Philosophy and Sikh philosophy, as you can identify it so well when someone gives their view. Isn't that so?
translation- I do not agree with what you have written

Please tell us about it. What do the Vedas say about Karma and Rebirth? With chapters and verse numbers will be very helpful.
translation- I know quite a lot about vedic matters, I would very much like to impress upon you my own knowledge, including verse numbers and chapters

Equally you claim to know Sikhism well as you challenged this statement by Palaingtha ji, "Sikhism believes in birth, death, rebirth cycle. Our destination(the soul's) is to Merge with the Supreme Being, Waheguru."
What does Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji say about Karma and Rebirth? With pages and Verse numbers will be awesome.
Translation- I also know quite a lot about Sikhism too

Clearly some of us could use your guidance.
Translation- Could you please stop writing like a fool
So, to sum up what you are saying is

I do not agree with what you have written

I know quite a lot about vedic matters, I would very much like to impress upon you my own knowledge, including verse numbers and chapters

I also know quite a lot about Sikhism too

Could you please stop writing like a fool

to which my response, without resorting to this ridiculous way of communication whereby we all speak in subterfuge, would be

I am sorry you do not agree with what I have written, but it was not directed at you, and it has been made clear the subject is closed

Yes, I know you are an expert on Vedic matters, including Vedic matters that have penetrated Sikhism

Yes, I know you are an expert on Sikh matters too, especially those that have roots in Hinduism.

And lastly, I apologise if my writing caused any offence to you or to Palaingthaji, I did not realise how precious you are, in future I will try this way of communication whereby you use different words to convey the underlying sentiment, a sort of Punjabi secret code, maybe you can give me some lessons.

lol
 

BhagatSingh

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Apr 25, 2006
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Harry ji's conscience said:
Ya I know what I will do. Instead of answering the questions or admitting my ignorance on the matter, I'll just mock him.
Really Harry ji, you can do better.
 
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