Hinduism Are Hindus Sacred Temple Fake?

[sanj007]

Think the problem, is that individuals dont understand basic fundamental points ie Moksha, ie god residing in hearts of all, ie sewa-KARMA YOGA,ie dignity of all functions in society-
The cleaner in an office is just as important as the top Boss, despite paypacket differences, as all functions are required for the proper functioning of society, and any individual humanbeing can attain whatever function they desire given their efforts..

 

[Harry Haller]

Think the problem, is that individuals dont understand basic fundamental points ie Moksha, ie god residing in hearts of all, ie sewa-KARMA YOGA,ie dignity of all functions in society-
The cleaner in an office is just as important as the top Boss, despite paypacket differences, as all functions are required for the proper functioning of society, and any individual humanbeing can attain whatever function they desire given their efforts..

I find your thinking enlightening, maybe you should convert to Sikhism lol

however I disagree with your cleaner/ top Boss analogy, they are not as important as each other, and anyone who thinks this is guilty of naive thinking, a Boss wins contracts, brings the money in, runs the company, no Boss, no company, no money, no jobs, whereas no cleaner means dirty offices

 

[sanj007]

well in terms of running the business, and the like yes, but that is the function of the boss, in terms of humanity and dignity of all labour all functions are important in the office, they all have to work together, otherwise office does not function for the better, and that is the point.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

As the human genome was growing,
there were system to recognize giving name labels to human,
with further growth of genome,
castes and sub castes were designed,
for further identification,
Manu designed human identification with system of caste based on traits.

But with invent of this system,
negativity of system erupted, as
caste based bifurcation in society and hatred,

GURU NANAK DEV JI tried to again tried to bring human genome in
single system as

"SIKH" as "Learner"

as purpose and trait of each human is "Learning"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[sanj007]

Anything Manu says which contradicts prime messages in Vedas is rejected, but thenthere has also been corruption in what Manu said:
http://agniveer.com/3308/manu-smriti-and-shudras/

 

[findingmyway]

Gurudwaras are not much different from temples. Only the rituals that take place inside are different.

True of modern day Gurdwara's but this is not in the spirit of Sikhism. I'm with Harry Bhaji on this one, there should be no rituals, and more focus on learning.

I am guessing this is why temples themselves are worshipped. Needless to say any place carrying a sacred object is worthy of worship.

No object or person should be worshipped. Beautiful and historic places should be admired but not worshipped.

We often bow down before we even enter a gurudwara. This is to say we are entering sacred space. We then bow to the Nishaan sahib (or in the west, the Nishan Sahib before the Gurudwara itself). Then we bow to the Guru Granth Sahib and the Weapons that are placed in front of it. And if you are in Harimandir Sahib then you bow down to Dakhni Deori, a place where Baba Deep Singh ji laid down his head, etc etc.

This is due to the influence of Hinduism infecting modern day Sikhi. Matha tekking to the SGGS is a way of saying I am ready to give my head to my Guru and learn. It is a physical greeting, not worship. Matha tekking to anyone/anything else becomes idol worship.

No. As far as the authors of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are concerned, they do/did/will exist.

I disagree. Gurbani uses mythological figures for demonstration as the audience would have understood the message better. This in no way confirms existence. There is a reason it is known as mythology and not history! I think whether Ram and Krishna existed or not is irrelevant as it is the stories around them are used for demonstration rather than the figures themselves. Even if they did exist, my personal belief is that they were ordinary men and stories were blown out of proportion over time as we see happen so often. In no way does Gurbani confirm or deny existence, nor does it really matter.

Original intention? The first "Gurudwara" was called Hari Mandir, popularly known as the Golden Temple. 'nuff said.

Really? Actually the 1st Gurdwara was just called a Gurdwara and was built in Kartarpur. Harmandir or Darbar Sahib is the most well known. In my understanding, Harmandar Sahib is a later name. Prior to that is was known as the Darbar Sahib in honour of the purpose of the Gurdwara.

Gurudwara, Mandirs, churches, mosques are a place of ritual, devotion and love, which we call worship. There is no such thing as a non-ritual activity. Any non-ritual activity that you are going to do in a gurudwara is by definition a ritual. Let's say you go there to listen to or sing kirtan, this is a ritual. You go there to read paath, a ritual. You go there to clean shoes, a ritual.

A Gurdwara was never intended to be a place of worship and was never meant to be restricted to a particular building. The true purpose of a Gurdwara is supposed to be learning. Paath is not supposed to be parroted but discussed and understood. Kirtan is not supposed to be merely sung but learnt from and inspiring. Cleaning shoes was not supposed to be a ritual but a practical seva. I guess it is important here to differentiate between mindless ritual and a ritual that has sprung from and has a good sensible practical basis.

Now learning and contemplation can also happen but the latter is better done in solitude.

I disagree. If that is the case why bother going to school? Why come on this forum? Why bother with sangat? Without hearing other points of view how can we possibly learn? How could be possibly know if we are on the right track? Sangat is important not only to keep you on the right path by providing good company but also to help in the learning process. Anywhere there is a group of Sikhs wanting to explore and understand Gurbani, we have a Gurdwara, no matter where that is!

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

This is due to the influence of Hinduism infecting modern day Sikhi

Sister Blaming another religion as if it is an infectious disease is no way to sustain a modern day Sikhi,if anything is good it's Sikhi if somethings not, oh it's Hinduisms fault is utter nonsense. All for one and one for all.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Sister Blaming another religion as if it is an infectious disease is no way to sustain a modern day Sikhi,if anything is good it's Sikhi if somethings not, oh it's Hinduisms fault is utter nonsense. All for one and one for all.

I dont think its "blaming" per se...a Virus or a bacteria in its own place is quite all right..its harmless...but when it..."intrudes"....into a human body..then it becomes less than harmless..it becomes dangerous and harmful...

Hinduism as it exists..is harmless and and quite all right..esp when a billion people believe in it...and Hindu temples exist all over the world....but when "hinduism".."intrudes" into Sikhism...it changes form a harmless into harmful because Gurmatt/Sikhism/Gurbani/Rehat and Hinduism rituals/mandir prayers/practices/vedas/puranas/mannu simrtees/castes/fasts/etc etc are in CONFLICT with each other. Just like a healthy human body is affected by a virus/bacteria..so is the sikh body affected by such outsider influences due to the inherent "conflict". I myself attend Hindu mandirs frequently as a lot of my close friends are Hindus..and i particpate very enthusiastically in their prayers and rituals and have lots of Fun..BUT back in the Gurdawra/my home..its SIKHI/Gurmatt and what Gurbani says that matters to me personally. Juts becasue i tied a Rakhrree to a Hindu female friend who politely requested me as a "bhai" at a Hindu family home..doesnt mean i come back home and tie rakhhrree to my blood sisters because Gurbani/Gurmatt DOESNT APPROVE of this. Its NOT double speak or fake behavior or acting...GURU NANAK JI also attended the Kumbh mela at hardwaar...entered the Ganges river...and participated in the Ritual..BUT GURU JI PREACHED the Message of Gurmatt....and showed how he practiced that by throwing water to the WEST !!

The Trouble iwth Sikhs in INDIA today is that living in a closely knit Hindu majority Community with massive Majority influence in daily life..in schools, public places, media, tv, newspapers , govt level, etc etc...many Hindu practises which are NOT as per Gurmatt are creeping INTO Sikh Homes and Gurdwaras....and being accepted as normal Sikhi. This type of Sikhs are neither SIKH nor HINDU..they are a weird mixture..NO BODYS..like the Punjabi Proverb.....Dhobi da kutta na ghar da na ghaat da... ( Its not meant to be offensive)....a dog kept by a Dhobi..follows him to the River Ghaat - and sits there entire day while the master dhobi washes clothes...and then when the Master dhobi returns home at night the dog follows him home..in actual fact the DHOBI'S DOG has neither Home nor Ghaat to cal "MY OWN"...it travels back and forth...while a Normal Household DOG stays HOME..even when its Master goes OUT ( to work at School/Bank/Railway station/Govt office etc ).

MATHA TEKKING as per GURMATT involves MUCH MORE than just "respect"...it actually means..I GIVE UP..I SURRENDER MY HEAD (MIND>>MANN>>MATT>>) to YOU my GURU....and Thus a SIKH ONLY Matha Teks to His GURU...a SIKH's HEAD should only BOW before the SGGS and no where else....but sikhs bow everywhere..gurdwara gates, car parks, nishan shaib tharras, gurdwar stairs, gurdwara feet washing places, etc etc etc...people not only bow down but drink the water from washed feet...declaring that as "amrit" when GURBANI delcares AMRIT IS ONLY GURBANI !!! Sikhs bow to statues, idols, pictures, mountains, lakes, sarovars, trees, muslim graves, they bow in buses to sai baba photos, thalis with devi statuettes..these may be called "BOWERS"..they certainly cannot be called SIKHS !!

AS Dogra ji has so well pointed out such practises are also NOT "pure Hinduism"...but who cares..its POPULAR HINDUISM....very few really care to dig deep into the PURE HINDUISM....so such people are also not "HINDUS"...na ghar de na ghaat de is an apt description for them as well.

 

[findingmyway]

Sister Blaming another religion as if it is an infectious disease is no way to sustain a modern day Sikhi,if anything is good it's Sikhi if somethings not, oh it's Hinduisms fault is utter nonsense. All for one and one for all.

My intention was not to blame as a disease but point out the origins of modern day customs. Look through our history and you will realise it is fact. A lot of Hindutva practices are creeping into Sikhi and I see it more and more even in my own family everytime I go back to India. This is not blaming, it is fact. If anyone is to blame it is Sikhs themselves for not taking the time to learn about their own philosophy and therefore stopping outside influences.

 

[Harry Haller]

Findingmywayji,

Having read some of Dograji's posts, it is possible that Hinduism also suffered the same fate that Sikhism is now suffering, namely, at the beginning, there was just Creator, and the way to enlightenment was having a good heart, sewa mentality, and an open mind with regards what will actually make you happy. Even today I speak to people that say 'oh this is against your religion, that is against your religion' as if Sikhism or indeed any religion, has gone to great lengths to stop people having fun. The fact of the matter is that some fun has consequences that are not fun, and folk with much more wisdom than ourselves have established exactly what can give you that 'fun feeling' and it never runs out and always has good consequences. That 'fun feeling' is being at peace with yourself, knowing yourself, and acting in line with the order of the world, being in consonance.

Maybe Hinduism today bears little resemblance to Hinduism of years ago, especially when one considers how much Sikhism has undergone such a drastic change in 500 years.

I wonder whom the Hindus blamed as the one God system became a multi God system, when the caste system became more pronounced, when all the things that are happening to Sikhi, happened to Hinduism.

I am also saddened by what I always thought was the rising Hindu influence in Sikhism, but I do not think it is Hindu influence, it is Humankind, thinking they know better, a few teaks here, a few changes here, its like chinese whispers, and before you know it, you have people doing what they want to do, rather than following Hukam.

It happened in Hinduism, it will happen in Sikhism, it is already happening in Sikhism, all we can do is concentrate on our own development as best we can, never straying from the truth, and carry as much love as our hearts can hold.

I have yet to find a sangat in any Gurdwara as enlightened, and as a source of knowledge than the the sangat here. I am sure there was a time when all Gurdwaras stood for what this forum stands for, rather than the McBani method that seems prevalent these days.

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

"Sikh" or "Learner" may have influence

But "GURSIKH" is "NIRLEP"

Not influenced by external environment,

External influence may be huge/massive/forceful/negative/positive.

Get the sangat of "GURU" with "GURU's" "BANI" and "GURSIKH"


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

Findingmywayji,

Having read some of Dograji's posts, it is possible that Hinduism also suffered the same fate that Sikhism is now suffering, namely, at the beginning, there was just Creator, and the way to enlightenment was having a good heart, sewa mentality, and an open mind with regards what will actually make you happy. Even today I speak to people that say 'oh this is against your religion, that is against your religion' as if Sikhism or indeed any religion, has gone to great lengths to stop people having fun. The fact of the matter is that some fun has consequences that are not fun, and folk with much more wisdom than ourselves have established exactly what can give you that 'fun feeling' and it never runs out and always has good consequences. That 'fun feeling' is being at peace with yourself, knowing yourself, and acting in line with the order of the world, being in consonance.

Maybe Hinduism today bears little resemblance to Hinduism of years ago, especially when one considers how much Sikhism has undergone such a drastic change in 500 years.

I wonder whom the Hindus blamed as the one God system became a multi God system, when the caste system became more pronounced, when all the things that are happening to Sikhi, happened to Hinduism.

I am also saddened by what I always thought was the rising Hindu influence in Sikhism, but I do not think it is Hindu influence, it is Humankind, thinking they know better, a few teaks here, a few changes here, its like chinese whispers, and before you know it, you have people doing what they want to do, rather than following Hukam.

It happened in Hinduism, it will happen in Sikhism, it is already happening in Sikhism, all we can do is concentrate on our own development as best we can, never straying from the truth, and carry as much love as our hearts can hold.

I have yet to find a sangat in any Gurdwara as enlightened, and as a source of knowledge than the the sangat here. I am sure there was a time when all Gurdwaras stood for what this forum stands for, rather than the McBani method that seems prevalent these days.

Would I be a very bad Sikh if I quoted a few lines from an old poem, I think by Samuel Coleridge?

What if cherished creeds must fade?
Faith will never leave us.
God preserves what God has made,
Nor can Truth deceive us.

Our Eternal Guru is...eternal. If we prove unworthy, Shri Guru Granth Sahib will be discovered by some other group. Don't get me wrong, I want the Sikhi that I know and love to go on and on and on...

I am just pointing out that what has been given us cannot be lost.
​

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

Without understanding of creator,
origins of life and end, (Life erson/ Religion/ Nation/ etc)

Matter and No Matter


No one is Hindu/ Muslim/ Jew/ Sikh/ Bhai etc

One is holding a genetic label of religion
and
egoistic about work of others,
without any personal charisma.

Who am "I"
"NOTHING" or "Stone lying on the road"
without
"Grace"

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

..doesnt mean i come back home and tie rakhhrree to my blood sisters because Gurbani/Gurmatt DOESNT APPROVE of this.

Gyani Ji I believe in a sisters love for her brother it has been there before Hinduism and it was shown for Guru Nanak by his sister ,I don't know what Gurbani/Gurmatt does not approve, but I'm sure that he would not of refused Bibi Nanaki's rakhhree,in any case what I see today is a bias for Sikhi in our thought ,speech and actions but our Guru showed no bias towards any Religion of his day,Religion if anything should remove differences and it is not Sikhi that needs to be kept pure ,as it resides only within our selves it is our Self which must be purified.
As for influence ,the whole world is influenced,when you try to keep things 'Pure' that task itself is based upon your preconcieved notion of what Sikhi is.
Sikhi is actually within you if you see some of it outside you are mistaking Liturgy for Sikhi .

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

dear Sp Ji...
I dont dispute the "love" part...i dont agree with the "Rakhhree" part hwereby the Girl..sister..wife..is made subservient to the Male for PROTECTION. Guru nanak ji made HER EQUAL..Guur Gobind Singh Bestowed the Same equality via AMRIT, gave her the same weapons to carry and DEFEND herself.

Love may even play a part...hey maybe a HUGE part..in a SATEE's decision to immolate herself on her hubbys pyre...she loved him so much she just cant bear to live without him...BUT its still NOT "recommended" by gurbani !!

So when I tie a rakhhrree to my Hindu "sister" i do have love for her - she makes the best "Hindu" dishes badam sheree halwas vegetarian daals and sabzees of various kinds and all that stuff which we dont make in our home..and she literally stuffs me with them at each excuse..he he...BUT i dont agree that if a robber attacks her..she should wait for me to help her..she should be a woMAN and rise to the occasion...thats all.

 

[mandemeet]

Scarlet Pimpernel Veer ji
You stand for your name by giving fragrance of many kinds; you haven’t claimed openly to have adherence to Sikhi but that is what is flowing out of you; I would like to say if you don’t mind, you appear to be a better Sikh than anyone, including me, on this site. Your posts say all; I don’t need to give examples. I would definitely say that Sikhi is also all about “VERITAS”. I have been trying to avoid giving comments on this site, but your last post has made me give some at least in context of your fragrance you are infusing on this site. Sikhi is free from all kinds of rituals, but human nature bond to ritualism buries the truth the Sikhi propagates. Our Sikhi house is cluttered with ritualism, only we can clean it.

A Sikh dies his or her first death when he or she gets into ritualism as it takes away from the truth
A Sikh dies his or her second death when he or she supports a group just for the sake of supporting, because it takes him or her away from the truth.

All what I said is not your praise but the truth I felt about your posts.
Keep glowing with your spirit. May Akalpurakh bless you with more and more fragrance!
Warm Regards
mandemeet

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

And..are "Historical SIKH TEMPLES..FAKE TOO ??"...because for certain MUCH that happens there in terms of Gurmatt/Gurbani is FAKE !! Food for THOUGHT jios.

 

[Inderjeet Kaur]

And..are "Historical SIKH TEMPLES..FAKE TOO ??"...because for certain MUCH that happens there in terms of Gurmatt/Gurbani is FAKE !! Food for THOUGHT jios.

Are you perhaps referring to the beheading of innocent goats at Hazoor Sahi? (In the intertest of good taste, I refrain from posting a YouTube link. I mention this because over the years, several people have sent me links to show me that Sikhs are a brutal, superstitious lot. I think this is very shameful and unSikhish.

:angryyoungsingh: :angryyoungkaur:
​

 

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,


Gulak/money between Guru and Seeker
Chaur on GURU when AC and fans are there
Rumale and Chandoa when RCC roofs are there
Commercials around Gurudwara selling ritual and symbol products that's need of poor mass and no one objecting inside permises, mala's, idol's, symbol's and so many things.


Priority is "food" for living
and "respect" for "EGO"

"GURU's" were aware of psychology of human's

"Free Food"
and
"Ji Kaho Ji Kahao" mutual respect for human ego is the way of sikh life.

One above basic's seek's education,
Above formal education one seek's religious education,
On the sixth step.

Many "Sikh's" are striving for basics managing food/ego etc.

"GURU's"Ji Ki learning is far away.

Make "GURU's DWAR" as simple as one should be,
though progressive but simple.

In simplicity with no desire, and nothing in mind,
mind comes to rest and have peace experience happiness.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Idols, pictures, ritual cleansing with milk, aartees with small thaals and earthen lamps, ghee jyots, ritualised muttering of sggs from page 2 to 1430 for money, silent paaths for money, different types of paaths at variosu rates, paaths by email, by satelite tv, by post, by remote payment, remote ardasses, bhogs, menu driven exotic langgars, bhetas of expensive rumallas chandoas chaurs etc resold again and AGAIN-....again and again..Narbad times..meagre pay scales of granthis ardassiahs, massive EGOS of pardhaans skatars and so called sevadaars..huge amounts of gratification demanded of pilgrims for rooms sraais, etc etc..scandals, molestations, robberies, pickpocketing, petty crimes, sale of karah parshaad, paid jumping of ques for ardass paath etc by well connected rich or politicians, special seating arrangements for rich the powerful and the politicians..the paraksh and reading and worship of extraneous books as EQUAL to the one and Only GURU SGGS..Shabad Guru and last but not least ANIMAL SACRIFICE of live goats and blood rituals..worship of weapons etc..these UN-gurmatt things happen in our Historical Gurdwaras called TEMPLES or MANDIRS...

JESUS once drove such RASC.ALS OUT of His fathers Temple..perhaps the time ahs come for SIKHS to gatehr strength and drive out the Rasc.als from out of the GURU's Dwaar and clear the GATE / Pathway....to the Shabad Guru SGGS. OCCUPY THE GURDWARA !!! ( related Thread on SPN..posted yesterday by Findingmyway Ji...)