Ardaas Changed

[spnadmin]

Inder ji

There is only one gurdwara in Finland that is not either sant mat or 3JO .... and yes the entire story is weird. Facts would help.

 

[Par]

Inder,
You have done a marvellous job of chastising. Your words speak volume. I only know that Guru Gobind Singh did have Sikhs with him, who did not become Khalsa. One main precept of Sikhism is 'Sarbat Da Bhalla.' I wish you well and power to you and your ideology.
-par singh
usa

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Re: Ardass changed..

this change in Ardas is made for the good and i dont think there is anything debatable on this..

I am sorry to say that the commentators like Gyani Jarnail singh and vohra are ignorant of thebasic principles of congregation and the supremacy of Akal Takhat, which is the only higher authority to give it's approval on any Panthic controversies and disputes damaging or dividing Panth. Sikh congregation (sangat) can discuss but can't verdict without approval of higher authority of Akal Takhat, like in the recent case where DSGPC president Sarna has betrayed to Panth and felicitated the enemies of Sikhs at Gurudwara Rakabganj in presence of Sikh Sangat and with the consent of it's members/body present there.
If Sangat had been allowed to take such crucial decisions, the leaders (Kurh pardhaan)will certainly get the decisions declared in their favor by large gathrings giving impression of Sangat.
Hartej kaur has raised this issue in total ignorance of the impact of debate. Baba Ram Rai just changed a word of Gurbani and he was ex-communicated by Guru ji himself. Any change in Gurbani or Ardas is never permitted without approval of Akal Takhat and anyone should never make any attempt to degrade the superemacy of Akal Takhat which is the highest temporal seat of Sikh religion.
Guru charnaa da dass.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa

 

[Rupinder.Singh]

Respected all,

I have been going through all this discussion right from the start. The only thing that I can conclude so far is this.

Root Cause: Lack of a centrally managed Common reference Material that documents the right explanation of the certain misunderstood words in SGGS to avoid confusions like this.

There is misunderstanding among sangat about the noun "bhagouti" some of us are taking it as "Durga" , some of us interpret it as "Sword" and some interpret it as "Bhagats". We wont be able to come to a common conclusion unless we have the right interpretation of "bhgauti" in Ardaas. and that cant be achieved without a well researched documentation of this and many other words in SGGS. I dont know if there is any such documentation made available by the SGPC or not, but I have never come across any. And I really feel that it should be there and widely distributed to avoid any conflicts like this.


The approach we are showing here in response to the above change:

Majority of us are against the change being made. and believe that Finland community is not following SGGS, So only resolution is sack them of the panth or isolate them. But the question is will that resolve the issue. Will that assure us that it wont happen again in future. Is not it some thing like dictatorship which we are knowingly or unknowingly following. Will that not cut away our own part from our own body. we have already cut many parts so far...

The only thing missing is explanation and communication..we have not tried to talk to Finland community yet to get the explanation on what grounds did they make this decision but we have already started giving our decisions..decisions made without asking for explanation or giving explanation could be catastrophic.

So please all..stay together...explain to others what you think and why ..dont impose it on them. ..listen to them what they think...guide them amicably into the right path if they are wrong or ask them to explain if they think they are right...identify the root cause and resolve it..please dont start the blame game..it will lead us nowhere..


:idea:

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear All,

Bhagouti/ ਭਗਉਤੀ​

The word Bhagouti/ ਭਗਉਤੀ have several meanings. Mahan kosh defines it as venerable, or adorable God (from Bhagvati/goddess Durga) as well as goddess or sword- ਭਗਵਾਨ ਦਾ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਕ, ਵੈਸ਼ਨਵ ਭਗਤ, ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂੰ ਦਾ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਕ (2) ਭਗਤੀ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲਾ. This word has been used in AGGS several times with different meanings to address God or goddess Durga or sword/great power etc.

Guru Amardas in Siri Raag defines Bhahauti;

ਸੋ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜ ਭਗਵੰਤੈ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਣੈ ॥ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥

So bẖag­uṯī jo bẖagvanṯai jāṇai. Gur parsādī āp pacẖẖāṇai. Ḏẖāvaṯ rākẖai ikaṯ gẖar āṇai. Jīvaṯ marai har nām vakẖāṇai. Aisā bẖag­uṯī uṯam ho­ė. Nānak sacẖ samāvai so­ė.

One who knows the Benevolent God is the true Bhagautee. By Guru's Grace, he is self-realized. He restrains his wandering mind, and brings it back to its own home within the self. He remains dead while yet alive, and he chants the Name of the God Such a Bhagautee is most exalted. O Nanak, he merges into the True One. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 88

Guru Arjan uses the word in different settings in Siri Ragas, Gauri, Ramkali, and Parbhati;

1. Guru Arjan, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 71-7
2. Guru Arjan, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 274
3. Guru Arjan, Raag Ramkali, AGGS, Page, 912-17
4. Guru Arjan, Raag Parbhati, AGGS, Page, 1348-2

Conclusion;

IMHO this word could be used for God by individuals, and should be left to them for his/her own discretion rather than making any judgment on its use.

Cordially,
Virinder S. Grewal

 

[spnadmin]

"Guru Amardas in Siri Raag defines Bhahauti;

ਸੋ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜ ਭਗਵੰਤੈ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਰਾਖੈ ਇਕਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਣੈ ॥ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥ ਐਸਾ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਇ ॥

So bẖag*uṯī jo bẖagvanṯai jāṇai. Gur parsādī āp pacẖẖāṇai. Ḏẖāvaṯ rākẖai ikaṯ gẖar āṇai. Jīvaṯ marai har nām vakẖāṇai. Aisā bẖag*uṯī uṯam ho*ė. Nānak sacẖ samāvai so*ė.
Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25092 (Ardaas Changed)

One who knows the Benevolent God is the true Bhagautee. By Guru's Grace, he is self-realized. He restrains his wandering mind, and brings it back to its own home within the self. He remains dead while yet alive, and he chants the Name of the God Such a Bhagautee is most exalted. O Nanak, he merges into the True One. -----Guru Amardas, Siri Raag, AGGS, Page, 88 " from post 34


Ardaas

sRI BgOqI jI shwie[
Sri Bhagouti ji Sahai
May the respected sword (God in the form of the Destroyer of evil doers) help us


Guru Amardas Ang 88
ਐਸਾ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਉਤਮੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
aisaa bhagouthee outham hoe ||
Such a Bhagaautee is most exalted.


There is no possibility of individual discretion, vsgrewal148895 ji. Please forgive me.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Ardass changed..

I am sorry to say that the commentators like Gyani Jarnail singh and vohra are ignorant of thebasic principles of congregation and the supremacy of Akal Takhat, which is the only higher authority to give it's approval on any Panthic controversies and disputes damaging or dividing Panth. Sikh congregation (sangat) can discuss but can't verdict without approval of higher authority of Akal Takhat, like in the recent case where DSGPC president Sarna has betrayed to Panth and felicitated the enemies of Sikhs at Gurudwara Rakabganj in presence of Sikh Sangat and with the consent of it's members/body present there.
If Sangat had been allowed to take such crucial decisions, the leaders (Kurh pardhaan)will certainly get the decisions declared in their favor by large gathrings giving impression of Sangat.
Hartej kaur has raised this issue in total ignorance of the impact of debate. Baba Ram Rai just changed a word of Gurbani and he was ex-communicated by Guru ji himself. Any change in Gurbani or Ardas is never permitted without approval of Akal Takhat and anyone should never make any attempt to degrade the superemacy of Akal Takhat which is the highest temporal seat of Sikh religion.
Guru charnaa da dass.
Ajmer Singh Randhawa

Guru Piayare Ajmer Singh Ji Randhawa jio,
Gurfateh.

THAT is the crux of the entire Matter....and its NOT NEW or just confined to Finland.
You mentioned Sarna of Delhi...OK and accepted. BUT is the hand being clapped with only ONE PALM..???

Can you answer this..WHO Gave L.K.ADVANI a SWORD as SIROPA..which he then UNLEASHED and WAVED in the air inside the HARMNDAR SAHIB COMPLEX ?
WHO were the ESTEEMED JATHEDARS and Pardhaans...with this BHADDAR PURASH who is on record as writing in His autobiography..MY India MY LIfe..that HE advised Indiara to attack the Akal Takhat and destroy it..and Indira should have done it MUCH EARLIER.:shock::shock::shock: His party wannd ladoos in June 1984
The Picture of Advani waving his naked sword in Harmandar sahib ( NO ONE has done thsi great a Sacrilege ever before in sikh history )..AND THE ACCOMPANYING JATHEDARS ESCORTING HIM...appeared in all newspapers...?????:shock::shock::shock:
Are these the Jathedars that we can trust to protect the sanctity of the Akal Takhat ?IS the AT protected ?? and sacrosanct right now ? TWO WRONGS never made one RIGHT.
IF we have the eyes to see as far as New Delhi..then we should be able to have a "PEEP" at happenings in AMRITSAR....or when the RSS goondas entered the Takhat KESHGARH SAHIB with HATS ON...and shouted Eh Hamara hai...and the Jathedars kept silent..onlookers...HMV...His Masters Voice...???:shock::shock::shock:

A Punjabi Proverb..Katteh da Zor Rasseh/killeh te hundah...a Tied Buffalo is ONLY as STRONG as the Rope/wooden stake it is tied to.. The STRENGTH of the SIKH KAUM is only as strong as the strength of the AKAL TAKHAT !!..and its JATHEDARS who have to rise up to the STRENGTH of AKALI PHOOLA SINGH ji no less.( Who had the moral courage to publicly whip Maharaja Ranjit Singh Emperor of Punjab...not those who bow before a badal who in turn bows before dera jhooth sauda and beas and namdharee satgurus ????:shock::shock::shock:

I TOO want to see a Powerful Akal takhat which BINDS all SIKHS together...as ONE NATION...that PROPOGATES only the GURUS TEACHINGS....Nirol GURBANI and Sikh Rehit..but it wont happen if i close my eyes or wish for it....Lets PRAY !!

 

[mystique_void]

"IMHO this word could be used for God by individuals, and should be
left to them for his/her own discretion rather than making any
judgment on its use."

Dear Sir,

We consider ourselves a Panth, a nation. We have common practices
and common beliefs. Despite a great deal of diversity on a number
of issues, some of our language and terminology is representative
of the common thread that binds us together. The Ardaas
that is performed at the Gurdwaras on behalf of the whole
Sangat is a unified expression of shared emotions and aspirations.

We are not a bunch of hippies using our sweet discretion in
whichever way we can in an attempt to find solace through
free love.

 

[jasi]

Re: [SPN] Ardaas Changed by Gurudwara Sangat in Finland

Dear writer Sahib.
Please explain to me considering Shri Guru Nanak Deve Ji `s teaching why we have a organized relegion ? We all are one and come from one light and yet you are a worrried about changing The Ardas and what not. Ardas can be done being silent in any loactions other than Gurudwarars which was meant to get to gether betwen each others to discuss goodness and Nam Japo.

Now we are enriched in cast system which is fundamently wrong in our Guru nanak Deb Ji's teachings and adding word of the Bhagats without teaching their philosphy to the Sangat at large the reason of naming them in Ardas. Where are these so called presidents of Gurudwaras to have their main object to spread the teaching of our GURUS. But did you start teaching their words and meaning of their saying in any Gurudwaras latley.

We need to introduce the real teaching of Guru Nanak Deve ji to join in the universe nasis that what happened during Mugal oppression kingdom to act as a defender of injustice to our broithers Hindus and ourselves and now we want Khalistan to divide the coutry.It did not make any sence when you have power to topple the giovenment without sacricficng your lives.Dy uring Mugal time there was no freedom but oppersesion,. Now we listen these politicians that your language is in trouble ,your relegion is in trouble and brain wash all the peasent and ilterate people.Teach them you have power full say when it comes for voting time to change the goverment who passes laws against your wishes.

Guru Nanak Deve ji is the teaching SIKH and Gurus were blessed with further vision as an extention to the base which was created by 1st Guru Nanaj k dev Ji to lay a foundations of faith.

Please reply to my concern to divide the country which our Gurus sacriced their lives to keep united..When voting time come we sell our seleves for bottle of SHARAB or favour to local mayor .Vote is most powerfull tool to topple ant government in den mocratic society . Did you ever teach that in Groudware but only "Shahidi Deo" for the v cause created by voting the wrong guy. For people like peasants who knows nothing about which they are ready to sacrice thier lives.

There is lot of education needed for my brothers and sister in Punjab. Your head lines to change this to bring origional or new one to bring to the light do not impress any one Sir.

Shri Guru Nanak Dev ji's is the teaching to SIKH is all about and following 9 Gurus were blessed with further vision as an extension to the base which was created by 1st Guru Nanak Dev Ji after laying a foundations of the Faith.on nothing but TRUTH.

It is time to wake up before no one start beliveing in our true faith. because time has changed and you live in free world.



Thanks

Jaspi

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyani Jarnail Singh ji, I am well aware with your views but please don't try to approve the malice act of some people at Helsinki-Finland. Gathering of a few people away from mainland can't be called a Sikh congregation (Sangat).This mailign act of them is an attempt to divide the Sikh Panth and a strict action be taken immediately by Akal Takhat to prevent such defamation and humiliation in future be stopped. , a challenge to the highest temporal seat of Sikh faith.
The RSS lobby is very strong, witty and plays all trick to divide Sikhs. Few Sikhs also who plays on behest of them are the serpentine beneath roses.Thus the Parbandhak committee/body of Helsinki-Finland be summoned immediately at Akal Takhat and be dealt strictly.
We Sikhs knows to protect our religion from our enemies within. If they keep their efforts on and on, than without caring our families or our interests, we have the ability to eliminate them in the interest of our religion but can't allow them to play their game to harm the pious Sikh religion. We aren't chrishtians and this is not 16th century.They should realize it.
Presently our leaders are betraying with us like Baadal and Sarna. So please stop such malpractices to divide and rule.

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Re: Ardass changed..

Yes Gyani ji, here you are. I welcome your views. I too condemn the wicked and all such malice acts played by Jathedars (employees of SGPC). Your complaint is the pain of a true Sikh.Yes. Badal is harming Panth in Punjab and Sarna in Delhi. Thay are the serpentine, needs to be crushed. Guru Naanak ji has already adorned them by,"KURH PHIREN PARDHAN VE LAALO." I have come openly against the most influential person of India, the Amitabh Bacchan for his role in massacre of innocent Sikhs in 1984 without any fear.I have challenged him on his blog also. Read at my blog,Amiatabh bacchan 1984 Whereas you and we are aware of Baadal, he is also condemned in blog Punjab ke Kamine
Guru Sahab says it is easy to speak truth but to live a truthful life is very difficult but assurance is also there that,"Gur ka kahiya ank samaavey Nirmal saachey succho baahvey."
So why should we fear of anybody to speak truth.

 

[Archived_Member16]

For information purposes and as a matter of interest: There are variances in Sikh Rehit Maryada practice among the Takhts too ! Akal Takht so far has NOT SUCCEEDED in standardizing the mayada among the Takhts !

As an example:


source: The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Punjab

Hazur Sahib has unique maryada
Varinder Walia
Tribune News Service

Hazur Sahib, October 29, 2008
​

Maryada (Sikh code) does not allow the Jathedar of Takht Hazur Sahib to leave Nanded till death and he has to be a “brahmchari” throughout life.

As per two-century-old maryada, the Jathedar, Giani Kulwant Singh, can’t attend the meetings of Akal Takht though he nominates his second in command (vice-Jathedar) to attend the meetings of Sikh high priests at Akal Takht. Though the first ardas in the wee hours is performed at Takht Hazur Sahib for allowing the Sikh community to do a pilgrimage of all historical gurdwaras, including the Golden Temple, as per the maryada of Takht Hazur Sahib, Giani Kulwant Singh can’t pay obeisance there.

Talking to The Tribune, Dalip Singh, a class fellow of Giani Kulwant Singh, said he (Jathedar) had to remain at Nanded as his duty starts at 2 am with the performance of ardas before washing of the sanctum sanctorum with holy water of the Godavari is carried out. After a break of only a couple of hours, the Jathedar has to perform the daily rites in the sanctum sanctorum where even other Sikh high priests are not allowed to enter.
Finally, the Jathedar goes back to his official residence in the Takht complex after the evening prayers, which are performed in the most traditional manner.

Gagrya Sikh Hardyala Singh, who carries gaggar (a silver utensil) for carrying holy water from the Godavari to Takht Hazur Sahib, too has to be bachelor and can’t leave Nanded till death. A task force of the youth, carrying traditional weapons, escort him barefoot. The tradition of performing aarti besides ardas on the riverbanks after the first pitcher is drawn is a mesmerising experience. Being a separate committee, the maryada of Takht Hazur Sahib is quite different from that of Akal Takht and the SGPC.

Milk and water of the Godavari is sprayed on the gurdwara building from a fire tender on the eve of Diwali.

The naubat (a traditional musical instrument) is played by non-Sikhs in front of Takht Hazur Sahib every day.

The most significant variation among maryada of Takht Hazur Sahib and other three Takhts of Punjab is that the recitation of Guru Granth Sahib and the Dasam Granth go on simultaneously. Unlike at the gurdwaras and Takhts under the control of the SGPC, devotees offer “panjeer parsad”, which can be collected from the counters put up by the Takht management.

*********************************************************

source: Vedanti for one rehat maryada for all takhts - Chandigarh - Cities - The Times of India



Vedanti for one rehat maryada for all takhts

3 Mar 2004, 1800 hrs IST, Yudhvir Rana , TNN


AMRITSAR: ( TIMES OF INDIA )To put a rest to the controversy of practicing of different rehat maryada among takhts, the Akal Takht would initiate efforts to constitute a common rehat maryada (Sikh code of conduct) for all the five Takhts and would also convene a meeting of Sikh intellectuals and organizations to review the Sikh Rehat Maryada drafted by Conduct and Conventions sub committee of Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee in 1936.

For a common rehat maryada in all the takht’s , the Jathedar of Akal Takht Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti along with Jathedars of Takht Kesgarh Sahib and Takht Damdama Sahib would tour two takht’s and hold deliberations with Giani Iqbal Singh and Giani Kulwant Singh Jathedar’s of Takht Patna Sahib and Takht Hazoor Sahib said Vedanti while talking to TNN on Wednesday after returning from UK visit.

Vedanti said at present both Takht Patna Sahib and Takht Hazoor Sahib were following sanatani maryada and even animal sacrifices were made at Takht Hazoor Sahib, which was not in consonance with the principals of gurumat said he. He, however, claimed that Jathedars of these two Takhts were following the sanatani maryada under the pressure of local populace who was not yet ready to accept radical changes in the prevalent maryada which also had brahiminical rituals.

About the baani of Dasham Granth which is recited daily at Takht Patna Sahib and Takht Hazoor Sahib and not at Akal Takht, Vedanti said there was no harm in reading any religious granth but any granth could not be equated with Sri Guru Granth Sahib adding that issue of dashm granth have been blown out of proportion.

He said he would be visiting both Takht Patna Sahib and Takht Hazoor Sahib and would try to convince the jathedar’s to formulate the common maryada and would also persuade the local populace to this regard. He said a meeting of Sikh intellectuals and various Sikh organizations would be convened in near future to contemplate over the SGPC drafted Sikh rehant maryada and appropriate measures would be taken if some concerns were required to be included in the SGPC’s rehat maryada.

However he said any inclusion in the rehat maryada would only be in its true spirit if it was equally honoured by all Sikhs and Sikh religious institutions. Meanwhile the five high priests would hold meeting on March 10.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Ajmer Singh Ji,
Gurbani says TRUTH never gets OLD..out of date..expired...or torn....
SO YES you are SPOT ON..why should SIKHS Fear to speak the TRUTH when Guru Nanak JI Sahib stood bravely facing up to the mighty Babar..the Lodhis, the Pandits, the Brahmins, the Nawabs, the Mullahs..and SAID the TRUTH. WE have the Personal Example of our GURU and FOUNDER...
I salute YOU. Keep on speaking out the TRUTH sans fear and enmity....we will overcome....simply becasue the GURU KHALSA PANTH is HIS own Creation....and it cannot be defeated or destroyed.:happy::happy::happy:

 

[Ajmer singh Randhawa]

Gyani ji ,thanks for appreciation. I just meant to say that nobody has raised any finger upon Amitabh Bacchan whereas he damaged more than Sajjan, Tytler, HKL Bhagat etc. because he appeared live on Door-darshan and raised slogans "Khoon ka badla khoon," due to his hatred call riots were spread all over India and about 4000 innocent Sikhs were brutally murdered on streets, their house were burnt into ashes, thier women were molestes and also raped at some places.Their properties and all belongings were lootyed. Business centres and their shops were gutted and this man is enjoying life under escort of NSG Commondos and moves scotfree. The sinner is leveled as a saint. He did it deliberately and he is never booked in any offense, Madame Tussaude is creating his wax statues and honoring the sinister by placing in their museum. What a shame? No voice is raised by the British Sikhs, no protest is made in the streets of London.
I don't see the movies of the killer of innocents brothers of my religion. You people may forgive him but i won't. I want to challenge him in court but i can't afford the litigation expenses. As soon as someone comes to help me, i'll certainly file a suit against him by hiring top Sikh lawyers because i am capable to argue in court myself but to follow the process of litigation, I need a lawyer.
If he is noy guilty, why does he not sue me of defamation? He knows he is so ignoring me but how long will he ?

 

[Balkar Singh]

Re: [SPN] Ardaas Changed by Gurudwara Sangat in Finland

Gurufateh Jio,
No wonder, this attitude is not new. So many forms of ardas already exist. Babe Namdhari ji, Babe Nanaksarie ji and many others at the historic places even Takhats have their different ardas.
As you all know,Gurdwaras are beeing formed on the names of diffrent casts. Gurdwaras "Satguru Ravidassji" are growing everywhere in the name of Bhagat Ravidasji, with a different Ardas:
1) Name of 'Satguru Ravidas ji' after the 10th Guru.
2) Jai kara is " JO bole so nirbhai - Guru ravidas ji ki jai.

The Sangat is supereme but divided. People of a village don't agree to celebrate a gurpurb collectively , what is to say of a city or state ? Satguru Sahib sumatt deve.
Dass Balkar Singh

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: [SPN] Ardaas Changed by Gurudwara Sangat in Finland

Gurufateh Jio,
No wonder, this attitude is not new. So many forms of ardas already exist. Babe Namdhari ji, Babe Nanaksarie ji and many others at the historic places even Takhats have their different ardas.
As you all know,Gurdwaras are beeing formed on the names of diffrent casts. Gurdwaras "Satguru Ravidassji" are growing everywhere in the name of Bhagat Ravidasji, with a different Ardas:
1) Name of 'Satguru Ravidas ji' after the 10th Guru.
2) Jai kara is " JO bole so nirbhai - Guru ravidas ji ki jai.

The Sangat is supereme but divided. People of a village don't agree to celebrate a gurpurb collectively , what is to say of a city or state ? Satguru Sahib sumatt deve.
Dass Balkar Singh

EXACTLY said Balkar singh ji...

WHAT Maryada are we talking about anyway ??

1.THE SRM published by the SGPC and supposedly SANCTIONED by AKAL TAKHAT is NOT FOLLOWED..either in SGPC Gurdwaras or at AKAL TAKHAT itself !!! The SRM is violated quite shamelessly in BOTH these places - Harmandar sahib and Akal takhat Sahib.

2. The other Takhats OUTSIDE PUNJAB have their own UNIQUE HINDUISED Rehit Maryada...Hazoor Sahib JHATKAS BAKRAS and use their BLOOD to bless and snactify the weapons etc displayed in front of SGGS...they have AARTEE with lamps and divas thaals etc etc and also Brahmcharee rules etc etc for their Granthis/Jathedars..

3. The Nnaksarees Thhaths etc etc and Damdami Taksaal Gurdwaras, various Sant matt Baba deras all have their OWN Maryadas...while ostensibly being "SIKH"...Nanaksarees DONT fly the Nishan Sahib, Dont have Guru Ka Langgar or Karrah Parshaad. They treat SGGS as a LIVING PERSON !!

4. There are many many other maryadas..sants usually CREATE one even while resting !! IF they feel like it....they will say ..DO THIS..and their chelas will do it exactly..as Waddeh baba ji or Brahmgiani Jis have spoken..commanded !! Thus we have various types of Paaths, mantars and all..using gurbani as base...

The BOTTOM LINE is that the GUARDIANS of Sikh Rehat maryada...the SGPC/Akal takhat have FAILED US. It is undeniable TRUTH and FACT that they are heavily infiltrated with RSS/Hindutva Ideology...and operate under the THUMB of POLITICIANS with self serving agendas. Thatsd why the SGPC SELLS Paaths..even through the POST !! Everything is for sale at a PRICE !!!

A MAJOR and DRASTIC OVERHAUL is needed..and it will COME...sooner than later...the Berri is FULL..it will soon SINK. When Jathedars give feeble excuses like..Let the 300th Anniversary clebrations be over..then we will decide...Let the Keshgarh Jathedars sons weddign be over..then we will decide....thats when the ROT is overwhelmingly apparent. Fortunes of a NATION cannot and must not be made to wait for aJathedar's sons wedding to be over !!! ( btw that particular wedding has been OVER for many many MONTHS now....!!)

 

[Hardip Singh]

Re: [SPN] Ardaas Changed by Gurudwara Sangat in Finland

EXACTLY said Balkar singh ji...

WHAT Maryada are we talking about anyway ??

1.THE SRM published by the SGPC and supposedly SANCTIONED by AKAL TAKHAT is NOT FOLLOWED..either in SGPC Gurdwaras or at AKAL TAKHAT itself !!! The SRM is violated quite shamelessly in BOTH these places - Harmandar sahib and Akal takhat Sahib.

2. The other Takhats OUTSIDE PUNJAB have their own UNIQUE HINDUISED Rehit Maryada...Hazoor Sahib JHATKAS BAKRAS and use their BLOOD to bless and snactify the weapons etc displayed in front of SGGS...they have AARTEE with lamps and divas thaals etc etc and also Brahmcharee rules etc etc for their Granthis/Jathedars..

3. The Nnaksarees Thhaths etc etc and Damdami Taksaal Gurdwaras, various Sant matt Baba deras all have their OWN Maryadas...while ostensibly being "SIKH"...Nanaksarees DONT fly the Nishan Sahib, Dont have Guru Ka Langgar or Karrah Parshaad. They treat SGGS as a LIVING PERSON !!

4. There are many many other maryadas..sants usually CREATE one even while resting !! IF they feel like it....they will say ..DO THIS..and their chelas will do it exactly..as Waddeh baba ji or Brahmgiani Jis have spoken..commanded !! Thus we have various types of Paaths, mantars and all..using gurbani as base...

The BOTTOM LINE is that the GUARDIANS of Sikh Rehat maryada...the SGPC/Akal takhat have FAILED US. It is undeniable TRUTH and FACT that they are heavily infiltrated with RSS/Hindutva Ideology...and operate under the THUMB of POLITICIANS with self serving agendas. Thatsd why the SGPC SELLS Paaths..even through the POST !! Everything is for sale at a PRICE !!!

A MAJOR and DRASTIC OVERHAUL is needed..and it will COME...sooner than later...the Berri is FULL..it will soon SINK. When Jathedars give feeble excuses like..Let the 300th Anniversary clebrations be over..then we will decide...Let the Keshgarh Jathedars sons weddign be over..then we will decide....thats when the ROT is overwhelmingly apparent. Fortunes of a NATION cannot and must not be made to wait for aJathedar's sons wedding to be over !!! ( btw that particular wedding has been OVER for many many MONTHS now....!!)

Gyanni jee,
You are perfactly right . Such important issues can not wait for these wedding excuses. Another hard fact is our these so called Takhat Jathedars can not act on their own . It is clearly the writ of Badals and his cronies & moreover RSS. RSS stands for their another outfit too that is Rastriya Sikh Sangat which is their integral part and has been formed to make fool of us.

We won't be able to do anything except raising our voice over these issues and then we too will be ex-commincated from the Panth by these Jathedars for raising our voice. I am not afriad of them. But.............

Solution is , what someone has raised in the forumn, is by throwing them out by VOTE in the coming SGPC elections. But how to educate our rural Sikh voters. They are just going with Badals on his empteen promises every time without realising the factual position. God save us from these Badals and other gready poilticians and Jathedars.

I pray to my LORD ; please send some one of the type of Baba Kharak Singh or Mehtab Singh who can thro the morden day MASSA RANGARS from our PANTH. That seems to me the only solution. MAY GOD HELP US.

 

[Rajinder Kanda]

Ardaas Changed by Gurudwara Sangat in Finland

Wahe Guru ji ka khalsa wahe guru ji ki fateh
I could not find how to contact adminstrator of this web, therefore I am writting here. I got a copy of email printed by one of my friend. This was about changes made by Finland sangat in Ardaas. First line of ardaas is changed from '"Pritham Bhaugati Simar Ke ... to Akal Purakh Simar Ke" and second they have added 35 names of bhagtas after Char Sahib Jadeh and dohra is changed also.
Respected Guru Khalsa Ji, Ardaas is always started by saying .. War Shiri Bhaugati Ki Patshahi Dasween "Pritham Bhayhauti Simar Ke ..... to Guru Tegh Bahadar Simarie Ghar Nao Nidh Awe Dhae Sabh Thanie Hoe Sahei".The stanza ... Pritham Bhayhauti Simar Ke ..... to Guru Tegh Bahadar Simarie Ghar Nao Nidh Awe Dhae Sabh Thanie Hoe Sahei is written by Guru Gobind Singh ji. No changes can be made by any person or sangat .. in Guru's bani. In coming future this practice can take a big wrong shape of twisting the Bani written in Guru Granth Sahib, Bani of Bhai Gurdaas Ji and Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. This is happening because of lack of knowlege of Gurbani and Sikhism.
In Ardaas there can few things added after Guru Gobind Singh ji's bani.
This is not my view, even Guru Hargobind sahib ji did not allowed his son Ram Rai to see his father's face when he made one word change ... miti musal maan ki .. to miti bei maan ki...it is well written in Sikh Itihas.
This is my humble submission that if the Finland Sagant can be advised.

 

[bhupindersingh]

Change done in ardass in Finland

Dear Jaspi,

Gurufateh ji,

would like to address few of your concerns, first of all is need to understand the maryada word itself. All educated people know that their are rules/laws made for betterment. Now as every individuals are unique so is their thinking, but to bring the mass to a common platform you need to agree collectively on some thing. This has been the puratan maryada when sikhs used to gather and reveiw their activities/problems. And in this event they also took a call on Ardass too. We need to be a bit humble to understand the need, it is very common feeling among all the people in the world to have their own unique code of conduct, which makes them different and important in the human society. It was also imparted to the sikh society to be in maryada, it is all together different issue who is doing what?
Ardass has few forms as acknowledged by the panth, which changes as per the need ( khushi di Ardass, markat di Ardass, Nawen Karj di Ardass, Shukrane di Ardass, Gupat ardass etc.) But in all the main body is same only in part where we need to adress the topic is taken in account. Ardass is in simple terms a prayer to your Godly connection. It can be done personaly too, but when it comes in question for mass then the layed maryada shoud be followed. But why? I might be able to clear it with some examples. In every school, before the starting the day they offer prayer and all the different schools have their own prayer, but the schools of same manegment/group across different places have same prayer(please try to understand the psychology behind it). I have seen children arguing on the topic that your schools prayer is not right see my schools prayer. This attitude is not only with kids it is more in grown up ones, this issue was well addressed in past by making one common Ardass for the panth and was even layed down the way to bring change future if ever required.
All Gurujis also setted up a maryada and who followed it were Gurmukhs and the ones who made their own ways, went away from Gurus. This was treated as Guru Panth not some bodies personal Panth so the changes should not be done on personal thinking . The unique code is very much essential to keep the racial identity intact.
Now regarding the fact of Muslims and Hindus. History has proved, if some body wants to know the facts, that my dear Hindu friends were more disastrous to the Sikhs than the Muslim friends. It was Muslim government but was always provoked by influential Hindu personalities. The Muslims were not so bad as portrayed by preachers, they trialed people with their sharah rules and gave punishments, now the way the cases were presented was different, they were cunning on those grounds. Lets not forget that at that time their was no democracy, and any ruling power will not take a threat so easily. They allowed the kiths and kins to practice the last rituals as per ones own religion. But what happened in the so called 48 years old Democracy, the sworn-in Prime Minister himself says " Muthi bhar Sikh hai kuchal dalo"( ****** teach them a dyer lesson). And this was solemnly abided by his fellow gentlemen, each of them wanted to score more than each other, by killing innocent people(sikhs) in the country to please their master. And this the BBC's report that their was no body to take care of the bodies lying on the streets for seven/eight days, and snaps show dogs dragging the bodies. Thank God still people have faith in democracy. What happened after that it is going to be 25 years now, not a single person punished for the ****** act. It was a crime committed in the broad day light in front of thousands (literate, nonliterate, professionals, businessmen, peasants, kids, women etc.) and that too not for a day or two, the killing went on and on for six/seven days, till your Democratic Prime Minister was satisfied.
There is always room for difference of opinion but at large it should not be so that it completely changes the ground realities. And if some body is not practicing the right path it doesn't give me the liberty to another wrong. And never two wrong can make a right.
with the pledge be concerned for each other, be united , be humble and understanding and maintain the concept of Nayara Panth.

with regards,

Bhupinder Singh.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: Change done in ardass in Finland

BhupinderSingh ji

I have moved your comment to this thread so that it is grouped with the comments by jsapi ji. aad0002