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A Little EGO May Be A Good Thing By IJ Singh

Sherdil

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Jan 20, 2014
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Suffering is suffering no doubt, but guru sahib throughout is not referring to suffering related with health, financial problem and or from siblings but this pain is due to feeling of separation from Divine, as gurbani tells us, 'ਦੂਖੁ ਘਨੋ ਜਬ ਹੋਤੇ ਦੂਰਿ ॥ I suffer in pain/miseries, when I realize he is far away/separated from me.SGGS.384.12.

Even when guru sahib says, 'ਕੇਤਿਆ ਦੂਖ ਭੂਖ ਸਦ ਮਾਰ ॥ ਏਹਿ ਭਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਾਰ ॥ - Since concept of God is karta purakh - creative thus question of bestowing sufferings does not arise, as such over here also guru sahib is referring to pain of separation from Him.

best regards
Yes japjisahib04, I agree. But doesn't Haumai equate to a sense of separation? Thus it is Haumai that creates our suffering. In this state of Haumai we deal with the world.

Taken from IJ Singh's original post (GGS, page 466):

Ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa (In ego they come, and in ego they go.)
Ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa (In ego they are born, and in ego they die.)
Ha-o vich ditaa ha-o vich la-i-aa (In ego they give, and in ego they take.)
Ha-o vich khati-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa (In ego they earn, and in ego they lose.)
Ha-o vich sachiaar koorhi-aar (In ego they become truthful or false.)
Ha-o vich paap punn veechaar (In ego they reflect on virtue and sin.)
Ha-o vich narak surag avatar (In ego they go to heaven or hell.)
Ha-o vich hasai ha-o vich rovai (In ego they laugh, and in ego they weep.)
Ha-o vich bharee-ai ha-o vich Dhovai (In ego they become dirty, and in ego they are washed clean.)
Ha-o vich jaatee jinsee khovai (In ego they lose social status and class.)
Ha-o vich moorakh ha-o vich si-aanaa In ego they are ignorant, and in ego they are wise.)
Mokh mukat kee saar na jaanaa (They do not know the value of salvation and liberation.)
Ha-o vich maa-i-aa ha-o vich chhaa-i-aa (In ego they love Maya, and in ego they are kept in darkness.)
ha-umai kar kar jant upaa-i-aa (Living in ego, mortal beings are created.)
ha-umai boojhai taa dar soojhai (When one understands ego, then the Lord’s gate is known).

Minor correction, Hukam is Eternal Law [deterministic universe and humankind's moral obligations] and Akal Purakh [beyond time n space divine being] is "ineffable". Some of the language used SGGSJ is interchangeable and synonymous with much of Nanak's dargah parmeshar ki [meeting with the Lord].
If Akal Purakh is ineffible, then can't we take the next step to conclude that the Hukam is ineffible as well? As I understand it, Hukam is the cause of all causes. It is something that cannot be resisted. It can only be accepted.

Perhaps a shabadh is in order to appease the sangat and create some accord. I offer the following (GGS page 297):

ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਆ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਿਖੈ ਫਲ ਕਬ ਉਤਮ ਕਬ ਨੀਚੁ ॥
त्रितीआ त्रै गुण बिखै फल कब उतम कब नीचु ॥
Ŧariṯī▫ā ṯarai guṇ bikẖai fal kab uṯam kab nīcẖ.
The third day of the lunar cycle: Those who are bound by the three qualities gather poison as their fruit; now they are good, and now they are bad.

ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਉ ਘਣੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ ਮੀਚੁ ॥
नरक सुरग भ्रमतउ घणो सदा संघारै मीचु ॥
Narak surag bẖaramṯa▫o gẖaṇo saḏā sangẖārai mīcẖ.
They wander endlessly in heaven and hell, until death annihilates them.

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਹਾਇ ॥
हरख सोग सहसा संसारु हउ हउ करत बिहाइ ॥
Harakẖ sog sahsā sansār ha▫o ha▫o karaṯ bihā▫e.
In pleasure and pain and worldly cynicism, they pass their lives acting in ego.

ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
जिनि कीए तिसहि न जाणनी चितवहि अनिक उपाइ ॥
Jin kī▫e ṯisėh na jāṇnī cẖiṯvahi anik upā▫e.
They do not know the One who created them; they think up all sorts of schemes and plans.

ਆਧਿ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਉਪਾਧਿ ਰਸ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ਤਾਪ ॥
आधि बिआधि उपाधि रस कबहु न तूटै ताप ॥
Āḏẖ bi▫āḏẖ upāḏẖ ras kabahu na ṯūtai ṯāp.
Their minds and bodies are distracted by pleasure and pain, and their fever never departs.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਧਨੀ ਨਹ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਰਤਾਪ ॥
पारब्रहम पूरन धनी नह बूझै परताप ॥
Pārbarahm pūran ḏẖanī nah būjẖai parṯāp.
They do not realize the glorious radiance of the Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Lord and Master.

ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਬੂਡਤ ਘਣੋ ਮਹਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸ ॥
मोह भरम बूडत घणो महा नरक महि वास ॥
Moh bẖaram būdaṯ gẖaṇo mahā narak mėh vās.
So many are being drowned in emotional attachment and doubt; they dwell in the most horrible hell.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਸ ॥੩॥
करि किरपा प्रभ राखि लेहु नानक तेरी आस ॥३॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ rākẖ leho Nānak ṯerī ās. ||3||
Please bless me with Your Mercy, God, and save me! Nanak places his hopes in You. ||3||
 

Original

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Yes japjisahib04, I agree. But doesn't Haumai equate to a sense of separation? Thus it is Haumai that creates our suffering. In this state of Haumai we deal with the world.

Taken from IJ Singh's original post (GGS, page 466):

Ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa (In ego they come, and in ego they go.)
Ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa (In ego they are born, and in ego they die.)
Ha-o vich ditaa ha-o vich la-i-aa (In ego they give, and in ego they take.)
Ha-o vich khati-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa (In ego they earn, and in ego they lose.)
Ha-o vich sachiaar koorhi-aar (In ego they become truthful or false.)
Ha-o vich paap punn veechaar (In ego they reflect on virtue and sin.)
Ha-o vich narak surag avatar (In ego they go to heaven or hell.)
Ha-o vich hasai ha-o vich rovai (In ego they laugh, and in ego they weep.)
Ha-o vich bharee-ai ha-o vich Dhovai (In ego they become dirty, and in ego they are washed clean.)
Ha-o vich jaatee jinsee khovai (In ego they lose social status and class.)
Ha-o vich moorakh ha-o vich si-aanaa In ego they are ignorant, and in ego they are wise.)
Mokh mukat kee saar na jaanaa (They do not know the value of salvation and liberation.)
Ha-o vich maa-i-aa ha-o vich chhaa-i-aa (In ego they love Maya, and in ego they are kept in darkness.)
ha-umai kar kar jant upaa-i-aa (Living in ego, mortal beings are created.)
ha-umai boojhai taa dar soojhai (When one understands ego, then the Lord’s gate is known).



If Akal Purakh is ineffible, then can't we take the next step to conclude that the Hukam is ineffible as well? As I understand it, Hukam is the cause of all causes. It is something that cannot be resisted. It can only be accepted.

Perhaps a shabadh is in order to appease the sangat and create some accord. I offer the following (GGS page 297):

ਪਉੜੀ ॥
पउड़ी ॥
Pa▫oṛī.
Pauree:

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਆ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਿਖੈ ਫਲ ਕਬ ਉਤਮ ਕਬ ਨੀਚੁ ॥
त्रितीआ त्रै गुण बिखै फल कब उतम कब नीचु ॥
Ŧariṯī▫ā ṯarai guṇ bikẖai fal kab uṯam kab nīcẖ.
The third day of the lunar cycle: Those who are bound by the three qualities gather poison as their fruit; now they are good, and now they are bad.

ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਉ ਘਣੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ ਮੀਚੁ ॥
नरक सुरग भ्रमतउ घणो सदा संघारै मीचु ॥
Narak surag bẖaramṯa▫o gẖaṇo saḏā sangẖārai mīcẖ.
They wander endlessly in heaven and hell, until death annihilates them.

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਹਾਇ ॥
हरख सोग सहसा संसारु हउ हउ करत बिहाइ ॥
Harakẖ sog sahsā sansār ha▫o ha▫o karaṯ bihā▫e.
In pleasure and pain and worldly cynicism, they pass their lives acting in ego.

ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਇ ॥
जिनि कीए तिसहि न जाणनी चितवहि अनिक उपाइ ॥
Jin kī▫e ṯisėh na jāṇnī cẖiṯvahi anik upā▫e.
They do not know the One who created them; they think up all sorts of schemes and plans.

ਆਧਿ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਉਪਾਧਿ ਰਸ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ਤਾਪ ॥
आधि बिआधि उपाधि रस कबहु न तूटै ताप ॥
Āḏẖ bi▫āḏẖ upāḏẖ ras kabahu na ṯūtai ṯāp.
Their minds and bodies are distracted by pleasure and pain, and their fever never departs.

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਧਨੀ ਨਹ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਰਤਾਪ ॥
पारब्रहम पूरन धनी नह बूझै परताप ॥
Pārbarahm pūran ḏẖanī nah būjẖai parṯāp.
They do not realize the glorious radiance of the Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Lord and Master.

ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਬੂਡਤ ਘਣੋ ਮਹਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸ ॥
मोह भरम बूडत घणो महा नरक महि वास ॥
Moh bẖaram būdaṯ gẖaṇo mahā narak mėh vās.
So many are being drowned in emotional attachment and doubt; they dwell in the most horrible hell.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਸ ॥੩॥
करि किरपा प्रभ राखि लेहु नानक तेरी आस ॥३॥
Kar kirpā parabẖ rākẖ leho Nānak ṯerī ās. ||3||
Please bless me with Your Mercy, God, and save me! Nanak places his hopes in You. ||3||
Sherdil Ji

Thanks to you I'm able to start my "working" day [garhasthya jeevan] with a taste of the "real" work [the exponential of His word].

Akal Purakh, Ikonkar, Parbraham, Nirankar, and many more are names by which the Gur Ghar recognises the Almighty. Guru Gobind gave around [12 to 1400] names and then decided, "hey Parmeshar thou art ineffable, I cannot capture thee by names [noun]. Alone through thy creation am I to understand [use of adjectives] an iota of thy otherwise infinite, formless, shapeless, timeless "being"". Whereas, "hakum" is His Law [Eternal]. That is to say, the Earth orbits around the Sun and the moon around the Earth, the falling of objects [gravity] and the attraction repulsion [magnetism] between matter n energy, and so on. But within this hakum is an inbuilt "moral" code of ethics [thou shall not kill] for the regulation of human conscience and the workings of a social order of his created world [society].

Just as we have a "Sovereign State" [the head of which is the Queen, UK] under which the rule of law is applied to maintain and regulate social intercourse between individuals and the state [crime] and between individuals and individuals [civil] and so forth. Similarly, Akal Purakh is the Sovereign and His law is hakum. Gur Nanak defines it beautifully when in Japji Sahib he exhibits in pauri 3 to 7, "...hakum rajayee chalna Nanak likaya nal". Obey His law says Nanak and all ye shall come to surpass.

Hakum for you as a student should be taken to mean the inexorable working of the universe. From a scientific philoshical perspective we describe that as "deterministic universe", meaning no Free-will.

Hakum cannot be ineffable for it is an "organ" of that which is ineffable. In other words, part of a whole.

Another important observation need be made here and that is, unlike Christianity's forgiveness n salvation through Christ only, Islam's Mohammed only, plus paradise after death ideology, Buddhism's suffering, Sikhism steers way away from this kind of thought. For Sikhism considers this to be Akal Purakh's "lila" [playground] and we the actors must indeed play albeit within "hakum". This suffering business is best left to the Buddhists, but yes, as a metaphor to bring about the irony of "dukh n sukh" Nanak introduces the "notion" to steer the wondering soul into perspective of the greatness, the ineffable character of Akal Purakh of which she the soul is a part.

Moving on with the shabd you've quoted, it is imparative to understand the very basic concept of the form of communication which the Gur Ghar has used to proclaim the majesty of Waheguru. Pauri in question cannot be read without the preamble [salok]. Why ? Because, the pauri is the furtherance, in depth exploration, explanation of the preamble. It is usually set out at the beginning of the shabd, but in Jabji Sahib, Gur Nanak puts at the end.

Another must is to recognise whether it a raag or a salok. The discernment between the two is fundamental because it describes the mood and the condition of the author or the singer. If it be a raag for example, say Nanak, then you immediately get to grips that this raag of Nanak is not the ordinary human experience but an extra-ordinary [dhur ki bani] audible sound composition, spun off Mardanna's rebab and Nanak amplifying it "poetically". This means one must surrender to the sound of music and let its sweet, soft, melodious vibrations be funnelled into the soul through his ears, the effect of which on the mind is to soften it as iron is softened in the furnace [pauri 38 Japji Sahib]. The gist of what I'm saying is that Poetry must be enjoyed by the yearning soul and not interrogated by the wandering mind. Yes, were it a salok, discuss it for msg, meaning n direction etc, but in essence appreciate it for its holiness, nevertheless. That is not to say, poetry cannot be discussed, of course it can, through "love", through surrender, without want n purpose but in utter n total awe.

The above shabd [297] has at core of its preamble the 3 states of human spectrum and the few who make it to the 4th [turyia]. Gur Arjun elaborates upon it poetically in the succeeding pauri, which you've quoted.

Hope I been successful in discharging an obligation with which you've charged.

Enjoy the day wherever you are - I will.

Many thanks
 

japjisahib04

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But doesn't Haumai equate to a sense of separation? Thus it is Haumai that creates our suffering. In this state of Haumai we deal with the world.
It depends what type of haumai we cherish whether it is linked with momentarily pleasure of rat race or winning over others, or love of God. Thus just think 'Ha-umai kithhu oopjai kit sanjam ih jaa-ay (Where does ego come from? How can it be removed?). In order to live in state of ecstacy Guru sahib advises, 'ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਜੀ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਰੰਗੁ ਮਾਣੁ ॥ O my mind, His guidance is always with you, listen and enjoy His Love.

Taken from IJ Singh's original post (GGS, page 466):

Ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa (In ego they come, and in ego they go.)
Ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa (In ego they are born, and in ego they die.)
Ha-o vich ditaa ha-o vich la-i-aa (In ego they give, and in ego they take.)
Ha-o vich khati-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa (In ego they earn, and in ego they lose.)
Ha-o vich sachiaar koorhi-aar (In ego they become truthful or false.)
Ha-o vich paap punn veechaar (In ego they reflect on virtue and sin.)
Ha-o vich narak surag avatar (In ego they go to heaven or hell.)
Ha-o vich hasai ha-o vich rovai (In ego they laugh, and in ego they weep.)
Ha-o vich bharee-ai ha-o vich Dhovai (In ego they become dirty, and in ego they are washed clean.)
Ha-o vich jaatee jinsee khovai (In ego they lose social status and class.)
Ha-o vich moorakh ha-o vich si-aanaa In ego they are ignorant, and in ego they are wise.)
Mokh mukat kee saar na jaanaa (They do not know the value of salvation and liberation.)
Ha-o vich maa-i-aa ha-o vich chhaa-i-aa (In ego they love Maya, and in ego they are kept in darkness.)
ha-umai kar kar jant upaa-i-aa (Living in ego, mortal beings are created.)
ha-umai boojhai taa dar soojhai (When one understands ego, then the Lord’s gate is known).
When guru sahib says, 'Ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa Ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa(In ego they come, and in ego they go, In ego they are born, and in ego they die - did I landed in this world with hau and with hau only I will go. No - Guru sahib says, 'gur seva tai bhagat kamaee tabh eh manas daihi payee, thus guru sahib is not referring to the haumai required to live with dignity in this world but is referring to, 'ਉਪਰਿ ਆਇ ਬੈਠੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ॥ and as such 'My manh filled duality(ਕੂੜਿਆਰ) daily attempts in vain to listen the voice of conscience (Ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa) and in that state of mind 'dies and is reborn again every now and then(Ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa) and not referring to physical birth or physical suffering. Our door of haumai is closed( Mokẖ mukaṯ kī sār na jāṇā)open it
 

Sherdil

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Jan 20, 2014
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But within this hakum is an inbuilt "moral" code of ethics [thou shall not kill] for the regulation of human conscience and the workings of a social order of his created world [society].

Just as we have a "Sovereign State" [the head of which is the Queen, UK] under which the rule of law is applied to maintain and regulate social intercourse between individuals and the state [crime] and between individuals and individuals [civil] and so forth. Similarly, Akal Purakh is the Sovereign and His law is hakum. Gur Nanak defines it beautifully when in Japji Sahib he exhibits in pauri 3 to 7, "...hakum rajayee chalna Nanak likaya nal". Obey His law says Nanak and all ye shall come to surpass.
You are forgetting that it is the Hukam that links us to our tasks. You cannot view it from a man-made system of morality or governance. He is the accused, accuser, jury and judge. He is both cause and effect. It is He who is doing all. In the primordial beginning, when the One sat alone in the void, who was good and who was bad? Who suffered? Who was there to take account of our actions? It was only Him then and it is only Him now. Therefore, the discord that exists between us and the Hukam lies in our delusion that we have some control over the circumstances when we really don't. The only thing we have control over is how we interpret the circumstances. That is the test of whether we are truly raazi. "Hukam raazi chalna, Nanak likhiya naal". With "likhiya naal" Guru ji says that he writes with the Hukam, because it is the Hukam that commands him to write. He does not take any credit for what he pens down, rather he gives all credit to the Divine. It is Gur prasaad (given by the grace of the Divine). "Hukmi Hukam chalahe rahu, Nanak vigseh veparvahu" (GGS, page 2). - His command determines the path. He blossoms forth carefree (He is above all. No one commands Him. It can also be taken to mean that Nanak becomes carefree upon seeing that all is in God's hands).

This suffering business is best left to the Buddhists, but yes, as a metaphor to bring about the irony of "dukh n sukh" Nanak introduces the "notion" to steer the wondering soul into perspective of the greatness, the ineffable character of Akal Purakh of which she the soul is a part.
The whole world suffers, not just the Buddhists. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for Guru Nanak to incorporate suffering into his philosophy. This suffering is summarized with analogy of the Soul Bride and the Husband Lord. Proximity brings peace. Distance creates suffering. Haumai is synonymous with distance. As long as you view yourself as a distinct entity, you will suffer. The "I am" is the illusion, therefore suffering is an illusion by extension of it coming from "I am".

The pauree I posted exists as part of a series, but it is capable of standing on its own. Much like a paragraph can stand alone because it is formed around a point of its own. The various points then further the main point at hand.

Here is another one that follows the same themes of Haumai, Hukam, pain and suffering (GGS, page 214):

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫
रागु गउड़ी माला महला ५
Rāg ga▫oṛī mālā mėhlā 5
Raag Gauree Maalaa, Fifth Mehl:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਪਾਇਓ ਬਾਲ ਬੁਧਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਰੇ ॥
पाइओ बाल बुधि सुखु रे ॥
▫i▫o bāl buḏẖ sukẖ re.
Adopting the innocent mind of a child, I have found peace.

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਹਾਨਿ ਮਿਰਤੁ ਦੂਖ ਸੁਖ ਚਿਤਿ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हरख सोग हानि मिरतु दूख सुख चिति समसरि गुर मिले ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Harakẖ sog hān miraṯ ḏūkẖ sukẖ cẖiṯ samsar gur mile. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Joy and sorrow, profit and loss, birth and death, pain and pleasure - they are all the same to my consciousness, since I met the Guru. ||1||Pause||

ਜਉ ਲਉ ਹਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੋਚਉ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਤਉ ਲਉ ਦੁਖਨੁ ਭਰੇ ॥
जउ लउ हउ किछु सोचउ चितवउ तउ लउ दुखनु भरे ॥
Ja▫o la▫o ha▫o kicẖẖ socẖa▫o cẖiṯva▫o ṯa▫o la▫o ḏukẖan bẖare.
As long as I plotted and planned things, I was full of frustration.

ਜਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਤਉ ਆਨਦ ਸਹਜੇ ॥੧॥
जउ क्रिपालु गुरु पूरा भेटिआ तउ आनद सहजे ॥१॥
Ja▫o kirpāl gur pūrā bẖeti▫ā ṯa▫o ānaḏ sėhje. ||1||
When I met the Kind, Perfect Guru, then I obtained bliss so easily. ||1||

ਜੇਤੀ ਸਿਆਨਪ ਕਰਮ ਹਉ ਕੀਏ ਤੇਤੇ ਬੰਧ ਪਰੇ ॥
जेती सिआनप करम हउ कीए तेते बंध परे ॥
Jeṯī si▫ānap karam ha▫o kī▫e ṯeṯe banḏẖ pare.
The more clever tricks I tried, the more bonds I was saddled with.

ਜਉ ਸਾਧੂ ਕਰੁ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਧਰਿਓ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਮੁਕਤ ਭਏ ॥੨॥
जउ साधू करु मसतकि धरिओ तब हम मुकत भए ॥२॥
Ja▫o sāḏẖū kar masṯak ḏẖari▫o ṯab ham mukaṯ bẖa▫e. ||2||
When the Holy Saint placed His Hand upon my forehead, then I was liberated. ||2||

ਜਉ ਲਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮੇਰੋ ਕਰਤੋ ਤਉ ਲਉ ਬਿਖੁ ਘੇਰੇ ॥
जउ लउ मेरो मेरो करतो तउ लउ बिखु घेरे ॥
Ja▫o la▫o mero mero karṯo ṯa▫o la▫o bikẖ gẖere.
As long as I claimed, "Mine, mine!", I was surrounded by wickedness and corruption.

ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਬੁਧਿ ਅਰਪੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਉ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੋਏ ॥੩॥
मनु तनु बुधि अरपी ठाकुर कउ तब हम सहजि सोए ॥३॥
Man ṯan buḏẖ arpī ṯẖākur ka▫o ṯab ham sahj so▫e. ||3||
But when I dedicated my mind, body and intellect to my Lord and Master, then I began to sleep in peace. ||3||

ਜਉ ਲਉ ਪੋਟ ਉਠਾਈ ਚਲਿਅਉ ਤਉ ਲਉ ਡਾਨ ਭਰੇ ॥
जउ लउ पोट उठाई चलिअउ तउ लउ डान भरे ॥
Ja▫o la▫o pot uṯẖā▫ī cẖali▫a▫o ṯa▫o la▫o dān bẖare.
As long as I walked along, carrying the load, I continued to pay the fine.

ਪੋਟ ਡਾਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਏ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੫੯॥
पोट डारि गुरु पूरा मिलिआ तउ नानक निरभए ॥४॥१॥१५९॥
Pot dār gur pūrā mili▫ā ṯa▫o Nānak nirbẖa▫e. ||4||1||159||
But I threw away that bundle, when I met the Perfect Guru; O Nanak, then I became fearless. ||4||1||159||
 

Original

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You are forgetting that it is the Hukam that links us to our tasks. You cannot view it from a man-made system of morality or governance. He is the accused, accuser, jury and judge. He is both cause and effect. It is He who is doing all. In the primordial beginning, when the One sat alone in the void, who was good and who was bad? Who suffered? Who was there to take account of our actions? It was only Him then and it is only Him now. Therefore, the discord that exists between us and the Hukam lies in our delusion that we have some control over the circumstances when we really don't. The only thing we have control over is how we interpret the circumstances. That is the test of whether we are truly raazi. "Hukam raazi chalna, Nanak likhiya naal". With "likhiya naal" Guru ji says that he writes with the Hukam, because it is the Hukam that commands him to write. He does not take any credit for what he pens down, rather he gives all credit to the Divine. It is Gur prasaad (given by the grace of the Divine). "Hukmi Hukam chalahe rahu, Nanak vigseh veparvahu" (GGS, page 2). - His command determines the path. He blossoms forth carefree (He is above all. No one commands Him. It can also be taken to mean that Nanak becomes carefree upon seeing that all is in God's hands).



The whole world suffers, not just the Buddhists. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for Guru Nanak to incorporate suffering into his philosophy. This suffering is summarized with analogy of the Soul Bride and the Husband Lord. Proximity brings peace. Distance creates suffering. Haumai is synonymous with distance. As long as you view yourself as a distinct entity, you will suffer. The "I am" is the illusion, therefore suffering is an illusion by extension of it coming from "I am".

The pauree I posted exists as part of a series, but it is capable of standing on its own. Much like a paragraph can stand alone because it is formed around a point of its own. The various points then further the main point at hand.

Here is another one that follows the same themes of Haumai, Hukam, pain and suffering (GGS, page 214):

ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫
रागु गउड़ी माला महला ५
Rāg ga▫oṛī mālā mėhlā 5
Raag Gauree Maalaa, Fifth Mehl:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਪਾਇਓ ਬਾਲ ਬੁਧਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਰੇ ॥
पाइओ बाल बुधि सुखु रे ॥
▫i▫o bāl buḏẖ sukẖ re.
Adopting the innocent mind of a child, I have found peace.

ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਹਾਨਿ ਮਿਰਤੁ ਦੂਖ ਸੁਖ ਚਿਤਿ ਸਮਸਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
हरख सोग हानि मिरतु दूख सुख चिति समसरि गुर मिले ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Harakẖ sog hān miraṯ ḏūkẖ sukẖ cẖiṯ samsar gur mile. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Joy and sorrow, profit and loss, birth and death, pain and pleasure - they are all the same to my consciousness, since I met the Guru. ||1||Pause||

ਜਉ ਲਉ ਹਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਸੋਚਉ ਚਿਤਵਉ ਤਉ ਲਉ ਦੁਖਨੁ ਭਰੇ ॥
जउ लउ हउ किछु सोचउ चितवउ तउ लउ दुखनु भरे ॥
Ja▫o la▫o ha▫o kicẖẖ socẖa▫o cẖiṯva▫o ṯa▫o la▫o ḏukẖan bẖare.
As long as I plotted and planned things, I was full of frustration.

ਜਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਤਉ ਆਨਦ ਸਹਜੇ ॥੧॥
जउ क्रिपालु गुरु पूरा भेटिआ तउ आनद सहजे ॥१॥
Ja▫o kirpāl gur pūrā bẖeti▫ā ṯa▫o ānaḏ sėhje. ||1||
When I met the Kind, Perfect Guru, then I obtained bliss so easily. ||1||

ਜੇਤੀ ਸਿਆਨਪ ਕਰਮ ਹਉ ਕੀਏ ਤੇਤੇ ਬੰਧ ਪਰੇ ॥
जेती सिआनप करम हउ कीए तेते बंध परे ॥
Jeṯī si▫ānap karam ha▫o kī▫e ṯeṯe banḏẖ pare.
The more clever tricks I tried, the more bonds I was saddled with.

ਜਉ ਸਾਧੂ ਕਰੁ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਧਰਿਓ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਮੁਕਤ ਭਏ ॥੨॥
जउ साधू करु मसतकि धरिओ तब हम मुकत भए ॥२॥
Ja▫o sāḏẖū kar masṯak ḏẖari▫o ṯab ham mukaṯ bẖa▫e. ||2||
When the Holy Saint placed His Hand upon my forehead, then I was liberated. ||2||

ਜਉ ਲਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮੇਰੋ ਕਰਤੋ ਤਉ ਲਉ ਬਿਖੁ ਘੇਰੇ ॥
जउ लउ मेरो मेरो करतो तउ लउ बिखु घेरे ॥
Ja▫o la▫o mero mero karṯo ṯa▫o la▫o bikẖ gẖere.
As long as I claimed, "Mine, mine!", I was surrounded by wickedness and corruption.

ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਬੁਧਿ ਅਰਪੀ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਉ ਤਬ ਹਮ ਸਹਜਿ ਸੋਏ ॥੩॥
मनु तनु बुधि अरपी ठाकुर कउ तब हम सहजि सोए ॥३॥
Man ṯan buḏẖ arpī ṯẖākur ka▫o ṯab ham sahj so▫e. ||3||
But when I dedicated my mind, body and intellect to my Lord and Master, then I began to sleep in peace. ||3||

ਜਉ ਲਉ ਪੋਟ ਉਠਾਈ ਚਲਿਅਉ ਤਉ ਲਉ ਡਾਨ ਭਰੇ ॥
जउ लउ पोट उठाई चलिअउ तउ लउ डान भरे ॥
Ja▫o la▫o pot uṯẖā▫ī cẖali▫a▫o ṯa▫o la▫o dān bẖare.
As long as I walked along, carrying the load, I continued to pay the fine.

ਪੋਟ ਡਾਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਏ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੫੯॥
पोट डारि गुरु पूरा मिलिआ तउ नानक निरभए ॥४॥१॥१५९॥
Pot dār gur pūrā mili▫ā ṯa▫o Nānak nirbẖa▫e. ||4||1||159||
But I threw away that bundle, when I met the Perfect Guru; O Nanak, then I became fearless. ||4||1||159||
Sherdil Ji

I did set out to reply but lost it in transition ! I'll reserve my adjudications for the time being and leave you with something worthwhile.

As with all things, the shortest distance between a human being and Trurh is a story - its from Zen Buddhism - enjoy !

A professor of philosophy went to see a great Master, and he asked about God, and he asked about karma, and he asked about the theory of reincarnation, and he asked many things... questions and questions and questions. And the Master said, ”You are tired, the journey has been long, and I can see you are perspiring, coming uphill on such a hot summer afternoon. It must have been tiring. You wait; there is no hurry. These questions can wait a little. Let me prepare a cup of tea for you. And who knows? – while drinking the tea you may get the answer.”

Now the professor was a little puzzled and became a little suspicious whether it was right to come to this madman. ”How can the questions be answered just by drinking tea?” But now there was no way of going; he had to rest a little. ”And the tea is not going to hurt in any way, so why not drink it and then escape from here?”

The Master brought the tea, started pouring from his kettle into the cup, and went on pouring. The cup was full, and the tea started overflowing into the saucer, and the saucer was full. Then the professor said, ”Stop! What are you doing? The tea will start overflowing on the floor. Now the cup has not even space for a single drop more. Are you mad or something?”

The Master had a hearty laugh, and he said, ”So, you ARE intelligent! You can understand. If there is no space in the cup then we cannot pour any more tea into it. Is there space in your head? I would like to pour all that I am, but is there space in your head? Is it not overfull, too much stuffed?
”This is my answer,” the Master said. ”Come again. First empty your head. Come in a state of not knowing. You are too knowledgeable. I can hear all the noise that is going on inside you. Come a little more in silence. And you have not come to learn – you have come to argue.”

Goodnight n Godbless !
 

Original

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Jan 10, 2011
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You are forgetting that it is the Hukam that links us to our tasks. You cannot view it from a man-made system of morality or governance. He is the accused, accuser, jury and judge. He is both cause and effect. It is He who is doing all. In the primordial beginning, when the One sat alone in the void, who was good and who was bad? Who suffered? Who was there to take account of our actions? It was only Him then and it is only Him now. Therefore, the discord that exists between us and the Hukam lies in our delusion that we have some control over the circumstances when we really don't. The only thing we have control over is how we interpret the circumstances. That is the test of whether we are truly raazi. "Hukam raazi chalna, Nanak likhiya naal". With "likhiya naal" Guru ji says that he writes with the Hukam, because it is the Hukam that commands him to write. He does not take any credit for what he pens down, rather he gives all credit to the Divine. It is Gur prasaad (given by the grace of the Divine). "Hukmi Hukam chalahe rahu, Nanak vigseh veparvahu" (GGS, page 2). - His command determines the path. He blossoms forth carefree (He is above all. No one commands Him. It can also be taken to mean that Nanak becomes carefree upon seeing that all is in God's hands).
With all due respect, I'll tag along with the idea of "hakum" being Eternal Law. Yes, as other organs of God like time, space, matter, primal energy, etc..so too is law [hakum]. As for link-up to our tasks, it is believed to be "karm" [deed:action and thought]. Morality is not entirely man-made, but because the human mind is designed to "do" morality just as it's designed to do language, sexuality, music and so on, morality is innate. Nanak's Waheguru is "non-matter" - although, having created matter it is independent and has left humans to their "karmbhumi" [moral conscience].

I'm sorry but "raazi" ? Are you referring to consent ? The hakum rajayee chalna [japji sahib] is in essence, attend to His "will", that is, Akal Purakh's. Gur Prasad is a state of "being"- more commonly referred to as a "meaningful coincidence" [at the grace of God]

The whole world suffers, not just the Buddhists. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for Guru Nanak to incorporate suffering into his philosophy. This suffering is summarized with analogy of the Soul Bride and the Husband Lord. Proximity brings peace. Distance creates suffering. Haumai is synonymous with distance. As long as you view yourself as a distinct entity, you will suffer. The "I am" is the illusion, therefore suffering is an illusion by extension of it coming from "I am".
Since this is a world of duality with its dual characteristics, that is, hot n cold, good n bad, dukh n such, etc... Sikhism accepts them as foregone conclusions and offers prescriptive remedial practices where they're not side-tracked but dealt with in the course of a disciplined [Sikh Philosophy] way of life. Haumai remains to be seen as an "ego". It is the "I am" that will eventually culminate into the "am" - the one without-Ikonkar. So I J Singh's essay stands on all fours.

The pauree I posted exists as part of a series, but it is capable of standing on its own. Much like a paragraph can stand alone because it is formed around a point of its own. The various points then further the main point at hand.
Let alone a pauree, one alphabet of Gurmukhi will do, the gist of my conveyance is to point out how the Gur Ghar choose methodically, literature-wise and went ahead to give meaning and effect to their charge. The form is very skilfully chosen - first a statement followed by an explanation.

A paragraph usually deals with a distinct theme albeit tangible and all paragraphs put together forms the body of the subject-matter in its entirety. So really, the salok is essential, but as an everyday exercise for the likes of you n me, yes a pauree will suffice.
 

Sikhilove

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May 12, 2016
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@IJSingh ji , if you're still around, The last gurbani quote you posted:ha-umai boojhai taa dar soojhai (When one understands ego, then the Lord’s gate is known).

Means that when we understand the thief of Ego, and it's role of testing us and it being the cause of us being kept in the lakh chaurasi joon, we know he Lords Gate, meaning that we understand the Truth, which means that we have reached the gate of Sachkandh, realm of Truth.

Once we realise Ego, and rid ourselves of it/ maya, we are jivan mukht and when we have paid off the karams that we owe, we don't really need to be born again.
 

Harry Haller

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Jan 31, 2011
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Once we realise Ego, and rid ourselves of it/ maya, we are jivan mukht and when we have paid off the karams that we owe, we don't really need to be born again.
do you err know of anyone that has achieved this? personally?
 

Sikhilove

Writer
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May 12, 2016
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but don't believe anyone who says they have straight away, the are so many false Baba's out there. That's where intuition comes in.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
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Jan 31, 2011
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One guy, has rid himself of Ego, yes, but people don't recognise him as a Sant becase he isn't amritshak and looks like a normal guy.
pah big deal I rid myself of ego years ago, its not that hard, I am talking about being jeevan mukht
 

Sikhilove

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May 12, 2016
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pah big deal I rid myself of ego years ago, its not that hard, I am talking about being jeevan mukht
If you're rid of Ego then u are Jivan Mukht. Being egoless means acceptance of who u really are- the same stuff as God and being jivan mukht means to be free.

When you have no ego, there is no I- so you are free from the illusion of being a separate entity.
 

Harry Haller

Panga Master
SPNer
Jan 31, 2011
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If you're rid of Ego then u are Jivan Mukht. Being egoless means acceptance of who u really are- the same stuff as God and being jivan mukht means to be free.

When you have no ego, there is no I- so you are free from the illusion of being a separate entity.
We talk of such things, and try to be less angry, less proud, less egoistical, the above was actually a comment of humour, ie, it is an ego filled statement about losing ego,

I accept who I really am, not quite sure that equates to Jivan Mukht, although, I am completely free, but I do not feel particularly enlightened, personally, I think all the enlightened ones keep it to themselves, I would be very wary of someone who actually stated their enlightenment.
 

Sikhilove

Writer
SPNer
May 12, 2016
608
160
We talk of such things, and try to be less angry, less proud, less egoistical, the above was actually a comment of humour, ie, it is an ego filled statement about losing ego,

I accept who I really am, not quite sure that equates to Jivan Mukht, although, I am completely free, but I do not feel particularly enlightened, personally, I think all the enlightened ones keep it to themselves, I would be very wary of someone who actually stated their enlightenment.
True they say that to inspire, you need to have experienced it yourself- but only if people are willing to learn. The Gurus inspired so many, if we're open to the truth, we'll surely recognise it when it's spoken.
 

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