Opinion ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ. A Country That I Have Envisioned

[Seeker9]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

Dear all

I have now opened a new thread to explore the issues around Khalistan

On this thread, I would like to learn more about why Sikhs think it is a worthy endeavour to create a utopia like Sikhland on Earth

Why, in terms of Sikhi, is it even nice to dream about such a place?

I am not asking these questions to offend anyone..I am genuinely interested in the answers! So please don't take my posts negatively

Thanks

 

[Seeker9]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

I am not here to argue nor prejudge anyone.

Dear Chaan Pardesi Ji

Like Tejwant Ji, I thought you were expressing disapproval of others when you stated:
Sometimes,such dreams can be misunderstood,due to poor imagination or misconception and lack of understanding, even though it was only A dream

Thank you for your clarification

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

Chaan Pardesi ji,

Guru Fateh.

Let's go point by point to clarify things here.

Perhaps, you may have regarded yourself as a scholar.I am not, and I dont regard myself as a scholar.I can give many verses from Guru Granth sahib, but that would not help anyone else or you.One needs to understand the Guru Granth sahib oneself.I dont use the Granth Sahib to score points either.It is beyond that for me.I have never done that and dont intend to now

.

You are wrong in your assumption again. I have mentioned many times in this forum and others that I am neither a Sikh scholar, historian, intellect or anything else, nor do I intend or pretend to be.

If you can give any verses of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru to justify a country like Saudi Arabia with its Sharia law, then you should. It is your duty as a Sikh to do that,

I do not know who uses Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru to score points. One more prejudgment statement from you for the reasons only known to you. Gurbani is used for interaction and I am sure that you are aware of that.

Perhaps, before we go any futher, can you tell me what is the difference in you prejudging Sr Gurdev singh Ji and his dream?

You are wrong here. I never prejudged Gurdev Singh ji's essay. That is your one more false assumption. I just dissected what he wrote in his essay in an objective manner. Perhaps, it would help if you read my whole post again.

[and accusing a small time learner like me, by prejudging aand assuming that you know more about the verses from Guru Granth sahib than anyone else.If you do, I wish you good luck.

Here you go with your falsehood, once again. You sound angry and upset. There is no need for that. We are all here to interact and learn from each other.I never accused you of anything. What you wrote is in black and white and it is nothing but prejudgement. Even one other member came to the same conclusion. It is written in plain English by you. Secondly, I have no idea where you got your other assumption from. I never claimed knowing more Sri Guru Granth Sahib than anyone else, nor would I ever do that. Can you show my post where I made that claim which you falsely accused me of? Did I write it anywhere in the post? Your mind is playing games with you.

Is that not prejudge mental and egoist slighted?.But dont you think you are contradicting yourself- on the basis of "not practicing what I preach myself?"But I shall not judge upon it.

I have no idea what you mean by the above. You can not change nor distort the facts. They are in your posts.

I am not here to argue nor prejudge anyone.I am here to share what I have and read, and learn from others.No one else reading a hundereds of verses from the Guru sahib can do me any good;neither me giving someone a verse will do any one any good.One needs to toil one's own.This is not a mail order of Guru granth sahib verses.

You again sound very angry and upset. What you wrote above contradicts what you have said before and have been responded to accordingly. It is no good to prejudge anyone. And one should be called for when one does.I have no idea why you keep on bringing Sri Guru Granth Sahib, our only Guru in every paragraph. Atleast it shows more about you than anything else.

I respect whatever your views are.But I do nt have to agree, as I would not expect you to.I am not interested in trying to be a cyber or arm chair warrior, as I have seen very dirty politics on the nets before since 1994, and dont intend to involve into one.You are free to wave the wand of your good knowledge, I have no problems, nor any objections.

I have no idea why this anger and rage above.What good does it bring from a Sikhi view point?

Chaan ji,

We are all here to learn in this wonderful forum. Disagreements are also part of the learning process. Your insights are very enlightening and I am sure many are learning from them. So, please do not take everything in such a personal manner. We can debate about anything regarding Gurmat here. This is the only way one can learn as Sikhs and your input is very important and valuable.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

At this point I confess to be clueless about the topic of the discussion. Is it about Khalistan or about something else? A different place? Perhaps an ideal state of Sikhi, or an ideal Sikh state? Perhaps neither but something else that I have missed?

Other SPN members may also be confused. Khalistan is a subject that naturally stirs up emotions from every side of the argument. Utopian states are usually utopias in the minds of their creators but not always the choice of others. They may find the basic building blocks or concepts on which the utopia is based oppressive.

Anger however will get this discussion off in a direction about anger and nothing else. So we need to get back to discussing ideas. What works for you in this ideal state of Sikhi? What does not? Why? and what is the ideal state of Sikhi?

 

[Seeker9]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

At this point I confess to be clueless about the topic of the discussion. Is it about Khalistan or about something else? A different place? Perhaps an ideal state of Sikhi, or an ideal Sikh state? Perhaps neither but something else that I have missed?

Other SPN members may also be confused. Khalistan is a subject that naturally stirs up emotions from every side of the argument. Utopian states are usually utopias in the minds of their creators but not always the choice of others. They may find the basic building blocks or concepts on which the utopia is based oppressive.

Anger however will get this discussion off in a direction about anger and nothing else. So we need to get back to discussing ideas. What works for you in this ideal state of Sikhi? What does not? Why? and what is the ideal state of Sikhi?

Thanks for this

I am sorry if I caused confusion and have started a separate thread on Khalistan

Hope we can still get some discussion around the questions you have asked above

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

At this point I confess to be clueless about the topic of the discussion. Is it about Khalistan or about something else? A different place? Perhaps an ideal state of Sikhi, or an ideal Sikh state? Perhaps neither but something else that I have missed?

Other SPN members may also be confused. Khalistan is a subject that naturally stirs up emotions from every side of the argument. Utopian states are usually utopias in the minds of their creators but not always the choice of others. They may find the basic building blocks or concepts on which the utopia is based oppressive.

Anger however will get this discussion off in a direction about anger and nothing else. So we need to get back to discussing ideas. What works for you in this ideal state of Sikhi? What does not? Why? and what is the ideal state of Sikhi?

spnadmin ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am with you regarding the confusion that this thread has created so far. What are we looking for here? What are we trying to discover or plan? Or, perhaps what is missing is a disclaimer that this is just a utopic dream that the author had had it for a long time and wanted to share it and it should not be taken literally because it is full of dogmas rather than pragmatism that Sikhi offers. But this kind of disclaimer can only be inserted by the moderators in the forums which are moderated with a heavy hand, unlike in this forum where all and anyone can post anything at anytime. Freedom like this does have its price.

On the other side, A mother ji has made an excellent point,

"In GS Batalavi ji's story I feel lot of peace, in today's world every where everyday shootings,murders,accidents or fighting happens(in real). In the story he imagine country like heaven.What's wrong with that. I don't think he was that technical, that give the direction to Khalistan or something...something....something. Personally I feel like it is a wonderful story. Why we that much discurreged "

However she also mentions the following in the other post to Seeker 9 ji:

"Yes you can dream that. I don't want to convert anyone."

The above shows that a mother ji would like to have a heavenly country of only Punjabi Sikhs with no converts unlike the essay.a Mother ji, Please correct me if I am wrong.

I personally would not live in a country like this because Gurmat ideals given to us in the SGGS, our only Guru, would not allow me to reside there. Hence, it is not my cup of tea.

So, it is a dream of a nightmarish kind for some and I have no idea if any further discussion is needed on this particular topic of a dream. This has created more misunderstandings, false accusations, prejudgement and a bad taste in the mouth than any constructive interaction.

As mentioned above, this forum is an open forum where anyone can post anything at anytime without it being siphoned through the moderators' approval, unlike other Sikh forums where lots of threads, posts and essays are banned or heavily edited, these things are bound to occur.

But, we can focus on the Khalistan thread started by Seeker9 if the members show any interest.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

Tejwant ji and Seeker9 ji

My comments were more along the lines of getting the discussion back on track. So I posed some focus questions at the end of my comments to help that along.

Your feedback in the thread is valuable. And I appreciate it.

The Khalistan thread is now ongoing. And yes that is where some interesting discussions can take place. There is an admin caution there. Based on current comments, it looks as if it will be a good thread.

 

[findingmyway]

Dear Ranjeet29 ji,
Thank you for sharing your views and a very warm welcome to the forum. However, the official language of the forum is English so please could you repost with an English translation for the benefit of those readers who do not understand or read Panjabi as per terms of service.
Many thanks,
Jasleen

 

[spnadmin]

Re: ਇਕ ਦੇਸ਼ ਜੋ ਮੈਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ

gsbatalvi ji

You have gone back and changed two deletions that I made. That is crossing the line. You were asked not to post in Punjabi and not to include your personal email address. So... You will receive an infraction and these posts will be deleted. If you continue in this way, then further actions will be taken.

I also checked back in the thread and found that you had written a lengthy essay in Punjabi. One of our members translated it so we could read it and appreciate your expertise. When you wish to post in the future, then please do engage the help of someone who will translate your comments for you. This is only fair given all the other members of SPN are required to post in English. Thank you.