UK Woolwich Killing: The Long Feared Attack

[Harry Haller]

Nanak Nam Chardi Kala , without my sense of humour I would have been dead long ago

If we live in society that makes noise about its fairness and compassion, we shouldn't have to wait until decapitations take place on our streets to discuss those whose voices have been negated.

I agree,

I am doing animals of Africa, how about you?

 

[dalsingh1zero1]

I recently discovered that I like drawing tortoises......

It's like a dirty secret....

 

[Brother Onam]

Waheguru,
Terrorism is unforgivably disgusting wherever it takes place. A decapitation and mauling in Woolwich, the 9-11 attacks in Manhattan, an atomic bomb over Hiroshima, rapes and murders in Congo or Sierra Leone, the execrable drone program that kills people on a secret "kill-list" almost daily, Armenian genocide, the US-funded massacres of Ixil Maya in Guatemala...
We live by the sword, surrounded by brutality, but we get shocked whenever the blow-back strikes close to home.
Terrorism is unforgivably disgusting wherever it takes place.

 

[spnadmin]

imho

This says it all

I do understand, and I also see your point of view, however, with respect, I think you are confusing a criminal act as an act of war. If every legitimite Islamic organisation in the UK has already denounced this as an anti Islamic action, I fail to see how you have any authority to suggest otherwise.

Merely repeating that war is horrible - and who would disagree - and therefore acts of terrorism are understandable if not acceptable - tells me that the terrorists have accomplished at least 50 percent of their objective. That is enough reinforcement to keep them going.

 

[spnadmin]

Woolwich Sikh Temple members pay respects to murdered soldier

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/10...ple_members_pay_respects_to_murdered_soldier/

There were emotional scenes today as members of Drummer Lee Rigby's family visited the spot where he was brutally murdered.

His mother, Lyn, 46, stepfather Ian, 54, and widow Rebecca, 30, wept as they laid flowers and left mementos at the site in Woolwich, south east London.

The visit was watched by hundreds of members of the public who had also gone to pay their respects to the soldier.

Among them was a large group of people from Woolwich Sikh Temple.

Afterwards, Sewa Singh Nandhra got a large round of applause from the crowd of onlookers as he spoke on behalf of the Sikh community and urged everyone to stay peaceful and calm.

"We condemn what happened in Woolwich," he said.

"It is sheer terrorism, despicable and awful.

"We condemn violence and all sorts of similar acts. No cause on earth can justify such a killing or an act. Our condolences and sympathies lie with the family.

"We are parishioners and we have got to work to maintain the harmony between all the faiths and across all communities. We will work with them and I would urge everybody to support police to bring this episode to a satisfactory conclusion."

A procession of bikers bearing St George and Union flags also roared past several times, which also drew outbreaks of applause from onlookers.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Waheguru,
Terrorism is unforgivably disgusting wherever it takes place. A decapitation and mauling in Woolwich, the 9-11 attacks in Manhattan, an atomic bomb over Hiroshima, rapes and murders in Congo or Sierra Leone, the execrable drone program that kills people on a secret "kill-list" almost daily, Armenian genocide, the US-funded massacres of Ixil Maya in Guatemala...
We live by the sword, surrounded by brutality, but we get shocked whenever the blow-back strikes close to home.
Terrorism is unforgivably disgusting wherever it takes place.

Brother Onam ji,

Terrorism has become the pet word on the tongues of millions and due to this it has lost its true meaning of abhorment and also made us immune to its very nature. Acts of violence of different kinds are not the monopoly of the powerful countries as some would let you believe. They occur daily from Aden to Zimbabwe as you have mentioned in your post.

The sad part is that this violent act that took place in Woolwich is based on the ideology of violence taught by the few from Finsbury Park in London to the pockets of Africa and is spreading faster than the Africanised bees which were let loose in Brasil a few decades ago. They may look like bees but have no honey to offer, just like the ideologues of violence.

It is the law of the sword. Sikhi was born because of this. Guru Nanak took this problem head on with his head/mind and 2 of our Gurus and many Sikhs after gave their lives in order to fight against this injustice.

The problem is not created by the few white men as some believe in here but this is the result of the exploitation of these very men for centuries that is bearing fruits. It has made the once repressed bolder backed by their violent ideology where one would be satiated with plenty of virgins after death. When one embraces death more than doing good in this life, then one becomes incapable of doing good. Many new converts are brainwashed into it.

Brainwashers like Islamist Preacher Anjem Choudhary, who is the mentor to the murderer are pushing Sharia Law in the UK, refuse to condemn this violent act are a danger to any living society than the stiff upper lipped people on whom the Sun has set a long time ago.

To counter these kinds of people, it is not the stiff upper lipped ones but the {censored}neys and others who are mainly uneducated and are becoming radical right wingers because they refuse to change with the changes. To add fuel to this fire, the poor Eastern Europeans masses are joining the same crowds.

As a result, we the Sikhs who are the bystanders take the brunt because of our bana and are lumped by the ignorant with the violent ideologues who are shielded by their religious chest plates by making death the ultimate ecstasy.

We have the way out which is, to make our generations highly educated and that has been happening because education in itself is power.

It is a bit surprising to notice that no one has mentioned Lakshmi Mittal, the largest steel baron in the world and a UK resident with the same disdain as towards the stiff upper lipped ones. The reason is in the power of education as mentioned above.

The UK and other countries are not only about the threat from the radical Islamists but also from the unnoticed other Whites of Eastern Europe who have plundered their countries and have settled in the West. Many of them have their own Cosas Nostras.

One can call it terrorism or by any other word. But the fact of the matter is due to the shrinkage of this world, thanks to WWW and also because of the economic reasons, we can come to know what violent acts took place in Timbuktu, Darfur or any other speck on the Earth instantly which we had no way of knowing some years ago although they have been happening since the time immemorial.

Blame games are easy to play. The hardest part is how to become a lotus by sprouting out from this cesspool of violence happening in this murky world.

Thanks to our visionary Gurus, we have the Miraclegro in the SGGS just for that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[dalsingh1zero1]

I notice another problem.

Those of us who are, in principle, against economic exploitation/manipulation of global resources and foolhardy neo-colonialism and have been prior to the modern emergence of Islamist fundamentalism, now find people detracting from valid, ethical arguments against this by subtly and overtly suggesting that doing so somehow gives support to terrorists.

This is a sad thing.

I don't need to be a fundamentalist to see that certain actions abroad by certain governments are highly suspect and morally questionable. I don't necessarily need to be Muslim to feel empathy towards everyday people who bear the brunt of foolish decisions or acknowledge the long term pain and devastation caused by outside interference.

I'd like to share some pictures with you in this respect. They are of Afghanistan prior to its recent troubles. If you have a few spare minutes, it's well worth taking the time to have a look.


http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/


http://www.pbase.com/qleap/best_afghan

 

[findingmyway]

NOTHING, absolute nothing can excuse the actions of the 2 thugs hacking down an unarmed man in a rural place. No war, no politics. The Guru's taught us the right way to go about dealing with oppression and I am truly saddened to see people justifying such horrors which none of our Guru's would ever condone. There is always a time and place for taking action. Woolwich High Street was neither the time nor the place :yellingsardarni:

 

[dalsingh1zero1]

You start a war on a people and expect them to fight on your timetable.


Sure.

 

[Harry Haller]

You start a war on a people and expect them to fight on your timetable.


Sure.

come on brother, we did all this yeterday, make a new point by all means, but this is just banging the same old drum, you can only colour a book in once, and then you have to buy a new book, we have done tortoises, we have done elephants, lets colour something new in!

 

[findingmyway]

You start a war on a people and expect them to fight on your timetable.


Sure.

No but I do expect a Sikh to retain their humanity. Guru Gobind Singh Ji encouraged the rehabilitation of injured enemy soldiers, all the Guru's went for diplomacy first, none had a knee jerk reaction to violence, even the martyrdom of their own, all protected innocent bystanders from all kind of tyranny, none attacked an unarmed man away from a battlefield. There is zero justification for the butchery observed. Issues should be discussed but never to provide an excuse for or condone acts like the one reported in the opening article. Such acts would be strongly condemned by our Gurus and should not excused by any Sikh. There is no self defence in the act, only violence. Self defence would be on the battlefield or taking the issues to the top

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

none attacked an unarmed man away from a battlefield

You are right as Soldiers have to obey the Law of Armed Conflict.

LOAC is based on Geneva Conventions and moreover alot of effort goes into regulating behaviour in the forces,British Soldiers can't normally lawfully engage unarmed combatants ,they have to restrain themselves in the worst of circumstances.

In any case as these men most likely accepted housing and food they should be obliged by the principle of reciprocity but as they are ungrateful they now are more obligated by taking more resources such as timely medical care, 'future secure housing' and a burden on the Justice system.

You don't have to over think it simply because you can think, I'm Simple so as our Guru said "once you've took another's salt then you should not betray it.

Another thinker Sikh seems to be doing the same here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLLF6hVj48U&feature=player_detailpage

 

[spnadmin]

I wish I had a transcript of the presentation so that I could take it apart sentence by sentence, presumption by presumption. I do agree that we should use our brains to figure out what is going on in the world. How is this a remarkable discovery? How does the presentation represent its by-line "basics of sikhi?"

The presentation is yet another example of how easy it is to create moral ambiguity in an atmosphere tensed up by real and present threats. How easy it is for otherwise discerning individuals to feel responsible and in some cases even guilty. I don' t want to write another long, long rebuttal just now. Perhaps later on. Just noting that Mr. Choudary knows the moral ambiguity and delights in stirring the pot.

I would like to ask Sikhs to reconsider arguments made by Guru Gobind Singh regarding "just war." We may disagree that the Afghan conflict is just or unjust. The outlier in all of this is whether Muslim extremists have considered the same questions that Guru Gobind Singh put to himself. With almost no effort it is possible to construct a list of maybe 10 examples in the last 20 years to suggest they have not.

p/s Khalsa ji wherever you are - Snap out of it! The sins of the fathers thing doesn't have to be destiny.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I have no idea what the true objective of this video is. It creates more confusion and bewilderment. I have no idea what this Sikh is trying to convey.

If this is about injustice, inequality etc. etc. then why are Muslims killing Muslims all over the Muslim nations?

Doesn't Allah dwell in all Muslims?