Christianity Who Was The Mother Of Christ Jesus?

[spnadmin]

Giani ji

I thought I said that, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it ...as a Gurmukh....focuses the mind.

 

[harbansj24]

Gyani ji,

This is relevant only to your post and not to subject of the thread.

My humble submission is that you cannot become a Gurmukh overnight. It requires "Ghal" and HIS "Mehar". So if this requires Chanting, reading Banis of SGGS without understanding but WITH FAITH then so be it. It is a process of refinement of very ordinary mortals first aspiring to be to be just GurSikhs. Becoming a Gurmukh is a long haul.

Once a person starts reciting Gurbani, then listening or reading authentic gurbani Vichar, then the seed starts germinating within a person and the process of metamorphosis has begun and with HIS Mehar and Hukam the person will transform into a Gurmukh.

And of co{censored} a Gurmukh chanting one akhar, is completely different qualitatively than a ordinary mortal or a manmukh doing the same.

But a person like me who is both a manmukh and with limited intelligence has to make beginning. So Gyaniji, please do not discourage persons like me to start mechanically chanting Gurbani without understanding it.

 

[Admin]

Gurfateh Tejwant ji,

Nobody is over and above the forum rules/guidelines... if we insist that we be polite and respectful towards fellow forum members, then this basic guideline includes you, me and for that matter every SPN'er. Guidelines also clearly state: Let us discuss the issue, not the personality and we solicit due consideration on this important tenant of SPN functioning from our entire membership.

I firmly believe that there is no argument/discussion in this world that can be debated by resorting to personal insults or comments. And there is simply no argument that can be made more powerful or assertive or effective by resorting to this same method. In my view, this method results in losing the effectiveness of our arguments. We got to do some introspection here.

In the context of this topic, all i am requesting you is that when you made the following comments on Jesus... please provide the readers any references to the testament or page no. in The Bible, where this stuff is mentioned... or for that matter anywhere it is mentioned. Like many fellow SPNers, i have very little or simply no knowledge of what Bible says. :shy:

3. If you still wear the Pug, then you are insulting Sikhi and all that it stands for and it shows that you stand for nothing but a dogmatic religion in which the angry, jealous, vengeful God raped a married woman and created a baastard whom he killed later on. What a shame!

Gurfateh,

Aman Singh

 

[nijjharjatt]

Gyani ji,

This is relevant only to your post and not to subject of the thread.

My humble submission is that you cannot become a Gurmukh overnight. It requires "Ghal" and HIS "Mehar". So if this requires Chanting, reading Banis of SGGS without understanding but WITH FAITH then so be it. It is a process of refinement of very ordinary mortals first aspiring to be to be just GurSikhs. Becoming a Gurmukh is a long haul.

Once a person starts reciting Gurbani, then listening or reading authentic gurbani Vichar, then the seed starts germinating within a person and the process of metamorphosis has begun and with HIS Mehar and Hukam the person will transform into a Gurmukh.

And of co{censored} a Gurmukh chanting one akhar, is completely different qualitatively than a ordinary mortal or a manmukh doing the same.

But a person like me who is both a manmukh and with limited intelligence has to make beginning. So Gyaniji, please do not discourage persons like me to start mechanically chanting Gurbani without understanding it.

Unless you are a critical thinker, you cannot understand Bani.

 

[nijjharjatt]

Gurfateh Tejwant ji,

Nobody is over and above the forum rules/guidelines... if we insist that we be polite and respectful towards fellow forum members, then this basic guideline includes you, me and for that matter every SPN'er. Guidelines also clearly state: Let us discuss the issue, not the personality and we solicit due consideration on this important tenant of SPN functioning from our entire membership.

I firmly believe that there is no argument/discussion in this world that can be debated by resorting to personal insults or comments. And there is simply no argument that can be made more powerful or assertive or effective by resorting to this same method. In my view, this method results in losing the effectiveness of our arguments. We got to do some introspection here.

In the context of this topic, all i am requesting you is that when you made the following comments on Jesus... please provide the readers any references to the testament or page no. in The Bible, where this stuff is mentioned... or for that matter anywhere it is mentioned. Like many fellow SPNers, i have very little or simply no knowledge of what Bible says. :shy:



Gurfateh,

Aman Singh

Turban and beard does not make you a Sikh but a Fanatic who died during the 1984 riots. Sikhi is of the heart and not of the physical body that is tribe related. I am a Jatt of physical body and a Sikh of heart. A Sikh is never born and never dies but the physical tribal self.

 

[Admin]

Then after all these years, why are you still clinging on to your turban and beard?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

The Christians may not like it..may be offended...BUT the Truth is as Tejwant Ji has stated..and its not double speak/forked tongue/or misinterpretation..the BIBLE is very very CLEAR on the attributes of the GOD of Abraham..Moses..etc etc.

There is NOT a Single word in SGGS that has those attributes of WAHEGURU...although the NAMES of Him are the common ones already known to all..ALLAH, Raam, Hari, Krishan, Naryaan..etc etc etc...Bed, Katebs are mentioned so Guru ji knew about these books.
The CREATOR in SGGS..always speaks SOFTLY, is Compassionate to the highest limit..is kind, gentle, has NEVER DESTROYED...a single ANT..let alone CITIES like that in Soddom and Gomrrah.. or sent FLOODS, PLAGUES to PUNISH and FORCE acceptance of HIM. Waheguru of SGGS has nO FAVOURITES..no special Nations under hIm and others not favoured as "gentiles"..etc and also the CREATOR of SGGS doesnt allow any others to do "ON OUR BEHALF"..each is responsible for what one sows...so in ESSENCE the CREATOR loved by the Hosue of nanak is VASTLY DIFFERENT form the God/Jehovah/of the Bible/Old Testament/Koran etc. IN FACT He is NOT that at all..not in the REMOTEST WAY...!!

ALL the Sants, Bhagats, Sheikhs, GURUS..who contributed to SGGS..were BORN as Normal HUMANS....from MARRIED MOTHERS, Normal Fathers, in turn Married and had families just like us...and OBEYED all NATURAL LAWS without any attempt to BEND/BREAK natural laws (miracles). His HUKM..His WILL is SUPREME. THere is NO Virgin Birth, virgin wives, no original sins, no angels, no devil, no prophets with revelations and fortune tellers, ascensions to heaven with human body, etc etc etc in GURMATT. Gurmatt is Total submission to HUKM.

TRUTH is BITTER..and although the "language" used by tejwant Ji may be a bit harsh..i have no beef with that as it is basically the TRUTH. EUPHEMISMS..dont hide the TRUTH..and "virgin mother" are just that..playing with words to hide a bitter truth that WILL NOT be accepted by any Court/normal human beigns TODAY..IF a Woman were to turn up with a Baby..and no husband to lay claim to him..no body will buy her claim of being a Virgin Mother...IN ISLAMIC SOCITY she will be STONED TO DEATH...other societies will PUNISH her in various means..ostracise her...in Fact ther cna be no more Virgin mary....and in contrast..in Sikhism..there have been not one or two..BUT hundreds of thosuands who...followed in the footsteps of the Gurus..sat on hot plates, had their bodies sawed in half..skin removed while alive, cut from joint to joint...and never wavered from their Faith..the GURUS DUPLICATED THEMSELVES..and still do..and will do in the FUTURE..that is GURMATT...producing ORIGINALS...from ORIGINALS..while others cant even produce photocopies form originals..

Gyani ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well said and no one could have put it better. There was a threat/warning from a member to Aman ji via a PM stating that and I am only paraphrasing it because it is related to what you wrote. It asked the Administration of this wonderful forum for the members like me not to write anything like that about Christianity because they can do the same about our religion.

If I had to respond to the threat/warning as a member not as a Leader, Mentor or especially as an Administrator who has to see things from a different perspective than a mere member like myself, would respond in this way, " Come on, bring all you have got and we all welcome you to discuss anything about Sikhi so we can learn from you, but, as long as we can all honestly also discuss about Christianity".

This is the only way to develop interfatih dialogue and understanding if we are honest and straight forward with each other about our beliefs, faiths, religions or ways of life.

Thanks for putting the things in the right perspective. I am also preparing the response to what I have been asked and as you must be aware that the Bible uses much harsher language than I did which I will share with the fellow members.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[harbansj24]

Unless you are a critical thinker, you cannot understand Bani

i.

Sir,

I have no desire to understand you anyway.

I am having a dialogue with persons whom I understand and who understand me perfectly.

So lets keep it that way.

 

[spnadmin]

Turban and beard does not make you a Sikh but a Fanatic who died during the 1984 riots. Sikhi is of the heart and not of the physical body that is tribe related. I am a Jatt of physical body and a Sikh of heart. A Sikh is never born and never dies but the physical tribal self.

Veer ji

If we find one fanatic who did not die in the 1984 riots or one Sikh without a turban and beard who was assassinated, then your statement becomes null and void. More -- don't you think that your remark is heartless? Lacking in compassion? Or is compassion of no importance to you and your Satguru? I fail to read any religious ethic in your statement.

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Originally Posted by Narayanjot Kaur
Bhagat ji

Here is the key line in the shabad as posted.

एकु अखरु जो गुरमुखि जापै तिस की निरमल सोई ॥३॥
Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||

Naturally if one reads the Sri Guru Granth Sahab one is not guaranteed liberation. There are scholars of every stripe who read it for academic purposes and they are not even looking for liberation. There are people who are Sikhs who read SGGS and are not liberated. Rather the point: The tuk is saying if one chants the one word, akhar (the Word of the Lord), as a Gurmukh, one will become pure nirmal.

The mere act of reading scriptures is not helpful. The emphasis is, not on reading the Granth, but chanting/reading as a Gurmukh.

Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

Well put. Allow me to elaborate this a bit more on the wonderful thought that you have shared about the verse:

Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||

As mentioned several times before and it is worth repeating that literal translation of this beautiful Shabad does not do any justice to the Shabad. I have no idea what" acquires a spotlessly pure reputation" mean. Is the reputation well starched as well? j/k.

Japai does not mean just chanting. It means much more than that. It means understanding and practicing what one has learnt from SGGS, our ONLY GURU.

Guru Sahib explains this beautifully in the latter part of the verse:

jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||

Here JAP acts like oxyclean plus detergent that we use to make our clothes spotlessly clean. If we wash them by hand, we have to rub the dirty parts vigorously so they can become spotless. Just putting the detergent on the dirty clothes, ( our Munn) is like chanting and chanting like a parrot and it would not do. If we put those dirty clothes in the washing machine, then the same process is done mechanically.

Fortunately, there is no washing machine to wash our munn. It needs our effort and vigorous rubbing ( training which can only happen by studying Gurbani, not by mere chanting).

Chanting is like crawling and after that we must learn how to stand up and walk. One can not crawl for the rest of his/her life unless one is invalid or opts to remain as such.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Aman ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Nobody is over and above the forum rules/guidelines... if we insist that we be polite and respectful towards fellow forum members, then this basic guideline includes you, me and for that matter every SPN'er. Guidelines also clearly state: Let us discuss the issue, not the personality and we solicit due consideration on this important tenant of SPN functioning from our entire membership.

Thanks for re-posting my DELETED comment which I had requested. I totally agree with you about the forum rules and guidelines, but if the comment had not been deleted and had been asked the reasons of the comment as you have done from the poster, which is myself, then we would not have to go through all of this about guidelines. If I am not following the guidelines and the comment had already been deleted then it is futile and shall I say uncalled for to ask for the explanation of the said deleted comment as I am not following the guidelines. The matter finishes there and then and time to move on. In other words, we can not have it both ways and place someone in a CATCH22 position as it was done. However, I do apologise if I have not followed the guidelines.

I firmly believe that there is no argument/discussion in this world that can be debated by resorting to personal insults or comments. And there is simply no argument that can be made more powerful or assertive or effective by resorting to this same method. In my view, this method results in losing the effectiveness of our arguments. We got to do some introspection here.

I am a bit puzzled by your above comment. Personal comment or insults to whom? I do not know Jesus personally. You have asked me to explain about my comment about Jesus. So, I apologise for not understanding your implication here. And, I agree that Sikhi is based on introspection but that has nothing to do with the comment that was deleted.

In the context of this topic, all i am requesting you is that when you made the following comments on Jesus... please provide the readers any references to the testament or page no. in The Bible, where this stuff is mentioned... or for that matter anywhere it is mentioned. Like many fellow SPNers, i have very little or simply no knowledge of what Bible says. :shy:

Now we are finally at my comment which I would love to respond to as asked.

I will do it in two parts. First from a lay man point of view and the second one from the theological point of view. So, please bear with me.

Part one- The Lay man:

We all know that for a person to be born, especially a male, sperm and egg are the must. A person can not be born without the either, that is the law of nature and can not be defied. There is no such thing as a miracle birth in real life except in mythologies.

We also know the claim that Mary remained a virgin although she was married to a man named Joseph which again defies the law of nature.

My questions as a layman:

1. Who is this "God" that had sex with a married woman?

2. Doesn't that contradict one of " God's" own commandments?

"Thou shall not commit adultery".

3. Why did all knowing, omnipotent " God" make a married woman commit adultery?

4. Who was Jesus' father? He must have one in order to be born.

The Bible says:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16

5. Why did all knowing omnipotent "GOD" kill his own son?

6. What does "everlasting life" mean? There is no such thing. This again defies the laws of Nature. All organic forms have to die which is the law of the land. Even the inorganic forms perish everyday in this Universe and beyond. Stars are born and die all the times.

Last but not the least and a very important point is that The Gospels in the New Testaments were written by 4 people who may or may not have met Jesus in person. The names of these people are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

The interesting part of The Gospels is that they were written anytime between 40 to 120 years after the death of Jesus. The jury about the exact date is still out there.

7. Can any of my Christian friends share with us in an elaborate fashion what they did, wore, ate, whom they talked to and about what 5 years ago today?

I will go deeper into the Biblical theology, once I get the response from my Christian friends about my questions.

Thanks & Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[spnadmin]

Tejwant ji

You are welcome. Indeed the translation from the Khalsa Consensus Translation by Dr. Sant Singh ji is over the top with respect to its translation of "nirmal" as well. It is rather melodramatic. For our purposes global meaning does suffice.

I am still working on a better translation for "akhar" -- translated as "Word of the Lord " - and this is systematic throughout most accepted translations (Sant Singh and Manmohan Singh). However, that cannot be as close as we might like. There is no Sanskrit equivalent for "akhar, having the meaning of "word." The closest I get in Sanskrit is "aakhaara" which means "form." Possibly then the deeper meaning refers to Divine Presence (i.e., form) and not "Word of the Lord". The problem with this theory is that aa+khaara has a different morphological root when compared to a+khar.

A second possibility from Sanskirt is the word that means, the base or root of a word. It is अङ्ग aGga -- so maybe this is the deeper sense of akhar.

"Word of the Lord" is found constantly throughout Christian readings of the New Testament. So, the translation may be giving a christianized slant in the translation that is not really true to Gurbani.

There is a modern Punjabi equivalent for "word " which is "akhan," but not "akhar." Perhaps the word "akhar" is a Persian or Urdu derivative. What do you think?

 

[nijjharjatt]

Tejwant ji

You are welcome. Indeed the translation from the Khalsa Consensus Translation by Dr. Sant Singh ji is over the top with respect to its translation of "nirmal" as well. It is rather melodramatic. For our purposes the meaning rather than the translation is more important.

I am still working on a better translation for "akhar" -- translated as "Word of the Lord " - and this is systematic throughout most accepted translations (Sant Singh and Manmohan Singh). However, that cannot be as close as we might like. There is no Sanskrit equivalent for "akhar." The closest I get in Sanskrit is "aakhaara" which means "form." Possibly then the deeper meaning refers to Divine Presence (i.e., form) and not "Word of the Lord". The problem with this theory is that aa+khaara has a different phonetic root when compared to a+khar.

"Word of the Lord" is found constantly throughout Christian readings of the New Testament. There is a modern Punjabi equivalent for "word " which is "akhan," but not "akhar." Perhaps the word "akhar" is a Persian or Urdu derivative. What do you think?

I wonder if these so-called Sikhs of beard and turban know who was the Mother of Khalsas and why the relationship was not consumated or remained Virgin?

 

[spnadmin]

I wonder if these so-called Sikhs of beard and turban know who was the Mother of Khalsas and why the relationship was not consumated or remained Virgin?

Who remained Virgin? I lost the thread of your logic Veer ji.

 

[nijjharjatt]

Who remained Virgin? I lost the thread of your logic Veer ji.

The Third Wife of Sachae Patshah Gobind Rai Ji. What was her name?

 

[Tejwant Singh]

Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

Tejwant ji

You are welcome. Indeed the translation from the Khalsa Consensus Translation by Dr. Sant Singh ji is over the top with respect to its translation of "nirmal" as well. It is rather melodramatic.

I beg to differ with you. Dr. Sant Singh's literal translation is full of distortions, misleading and does disservice to the beautiful Gurbani. I have no idea what you mean by melodramatic. Can you please elaborate that for the better understanding because that kind of term is used for soap operas not to understand and put Gurbani into practice?

For our purposes global meaning does suffice.

I have no idea what you mean by the " Global meaning does suffice". What is the global meaning of what? Are you talking about the whole Shabad or the said verse or the word " Nirmal"?

I am still working on a better translation for "akhar" -- translated as "Word of the Lord " - and this is systematic throughout most accepted translations (Sant Singh and Manmohan Singh). However, that cannot be as close as we might like. There is no Sanskrit equivalent for "akhar, having the meaning of "word." The closest I get in Sanskrit is "aakhaara" which means "form." Possibly then the deeper meaning refers to Divine Presence
(i.e., form) and not "Word of the Lord". The problem with this theory is that aa+khaara has a different morphological root when compared to a+khar.

A second possibility from Sanskirt is the word that means, the base or root of a word. It is अङ्ग aGga -- so maybe this is the deeper sense of akhar.

"Word of the Lord" is found constantly throughout Christian readings of the New Testament. So, the translation may be giving a christianized slant in the translation that is not really true to Gurbani.

There is a modern Punjabi equivalent for "word " which is "akhan," but not "akhar." Perhaps the word "akhar" is a Persian or Urdu derivative. What do you think?

Narayanjot ji,

The way I try to understand Gurbani, one can not take one word, in this case the word " Akhar" and find the literal translation and sees how it fits the best. The message that our Gurus want us to understand is in the RAHAO of each Shabad. If we understand the RAHAO part which is like the nectar of flower, then all petals falls into their respective places.

I will just post the RAHAO part of this beautiful Shabad from our 5th Guru and in a couple of days I will share with the cyber Sadh Sangat the way I understand the whole Shabad.

ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਰੀਐ ॥
संतहु सागरु पारि उतरीऐ ॥
Sanṯahu sāgar pār uṯrī▫ai.
O Saints, cross over the world-ocean. Page 747.

Here, Guru Sahib is calling all of us Saints. What an honour and privilege and a way to motivate all of us who are down trodden! He is telling us to confront all odds, negative things, obstacles, pot holes in order to lead a saintly life.

Now the question arises, what tools do we need/ have in order to live this life of Miri- Piri?

The next line explains that:

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬਚਨੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਾ ਸੋ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਤਰੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जे को बचनु कमावै संतन का सो गुर परसादी तरीऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Je ko bacẖan kamāvai sanṯan kā so gur parsādī ṯarī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who practices the Teachings of the Saints, by Guru's Grace, is carried across. ||1||Pause||

Kamavai literally means to earn something. In other words to make a living.

How can we make our spiritual living?

Let's not forget that Guru Sahib has already called us Saints in the first verse, So once again the English litertal translation is distorted because we as Saints have no teachings of our own as the translation would suggest.

We are Saints because we have Ik Ong Kaar with us as our Tillerman who can steer us across this ocean of Maya with His grace.

And how do we have this connection with Ik Ong Kaar?

It is by practicing the teachings given to us in the SGGS, our ONLY GURU.

Now, keeping this central idea of RAHAO in mind, let me get back to the verse which has the word "AKHAR" in it.

Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||

One who starts practicing even a single message ( Ek Akhar) of Gurbani, starts being on the Gurmat path and is called a Gurmukh which is neither a title, nor a destination but a start of the Gurmat journey because we all know that Sikhi path is a journey. Once this journey begins then he/she, the Gurmukh, finds the tools with the grace of Ik Ong Kaar to keep his/her spiritual collar clean.

The fact of the matter is that we as humans get dirty often around our collars.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

 

[Astroboy]

I wonder if these so-called Sikhs of beard and turban know who was the Mother of Khalsas and why the relationship was not consumated or remained Virgin?

Nijjharjatt Ji,

Your comments of this sorts will be deleted as they are not relevant to this thread that you started.

Secondly, comparing Mother of Jesus with Mother of Khalsa is a distortion of the truth because in Christianity you are born of the flesh but the Khalsa are Spirit born people. If your intention is to benefit the Sikh sangat, then you have to at least bring out the explanations or back ups of your statements such as 3rd wife of Gobind Rai.

But if you're here just to instigate sentiments like 1984 Massacre, caste distinctions, re-create the history of Sikhism, etc., then you're no better than the babas of deras which you yourself seem to be against.

It is better to abide with SPN Forum rules than to go against them. You're not playing borderline tactics because according to Moderators, you have stepped into restricted territory again and again. It is still time for you to change your presentations of 'facts' and come humble and clean.

Nobody wants to control you or any SPN'er. Moderators just doing their job.
Thank you for understanding - SPN Forum Rules - Adhere to Rules Strictly

 

[spnadmin]

The Third Wife of Sachae Patshah Gobind Rai Ji. What was her name?

nijjharjatt ji - This is really a problematic statement for more than one reason. You are calling Guru Gobind Singh ji Gobind Rai most likely according to fit your own agenda -- i.e., to erase Sikh identity by erasing reference to Singh a Khalsa name. You are referring to a woman (and if you don't remember her name, nonetheless, I am not going to do your research for you and tell you what it is), a woman, whom history does not consider his "wife" as there is virtually no substantive evidence to support the allegation. It is like the null hypothesis in science (which I am sure you as a metallurgist can understand). If the hypothesis under study cannot be supported for lack of evidence, then our conclusions must default to a finding of no significance.

 

[spnadmin]

Narayanjot ji,

Guru Fateh.

You write:

I beg to differ with you. Dr. Sant Singh's literal translation is full of distortions, misleading and does disservice to the beautiful Gurbani. I have no idea what you mean by melodramatic. Can you please elaborate that for the better understanding because that kind of term is used for soap operas not to understand and put Gurbani into practice?


I have no idea what you mean by the " Global meaning does suffice". What is the global meaning of what? Are you talking about the whole Shabad or the said verse or the word " Nirmal"?


Narayanjot ji,

The way I try to understand Gurbani, one can not take one word, in this case the word " Akhar" and find the literal translation and sees how it fits the best. The message that our Gurus want us to understand is in the RAHAO of each Shabad. If we understand the RAHAO part which is like the nectar of flower, then all petals falls into their respective places.

I will just post the RAHAO part of this beautiful Shabad from our 5th Guru and in a couple of days I will share with the cyber Sadh Sangat the way I understand the whole Shabad.

ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਰੀਐ ॥
संतहु सागरु पारि उतरीऐ ॥
Sanṯahu sāgar pār uṯrī▫ai.
O Saints, cross over the world-ocean. Page 747.

Here, Guru Sahib is calling all of us Saints. What an honour and privilege and a way to motivate all of us who are down trodden! He is telling us to confront all odds, negative things, obstacles, pot holes in order to lead a saintly life.

Now the question arises, what tools do we need/ have in order to live this life of Miri- Piri?

The next line explains that:

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬਚਨੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਾ ਸੋ ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਤਰੀਐ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जे को बचनु कमावै संतन का सो गुर परसादी तरीऐ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Je ko bacẖan kamāvai sanṯan kā so gur parsādī ṯarī▫ai. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who practices the Teachings of the Saints, by Guru's Grace, is carried across. ||1||Pause||

Kamavai literally means to earn something. In other words to make a living.

How can we make our spiritual living?

Let's not forget that Guru Sahib has already called us Saints in the first verse, So once again the English litertal translation is distorted because we as Saints have no teachings of our own as the translation would suggest.

We are Saints because we have Ik Ong Kaar with us as our Tillerman who can steer us across this ocean of Maya with His grace.

And how do we have this connection with Ik Ong Kaar?

It is by practicing the teachings given to us in the SGGS, our ONLY GURU.

Now, keeping this central idea of RAHAO in mind, let me get back to the verse which has the word "AKHAR" in it.

Ėk akẖar jo gurmukẖ jāpai ṯis kī nirmal so▫ī. ||3||
One who, as Gurmukh, chants the One Word, acquires a spotlessly pure reputation. ||3||

One who starts practicing even a single message ( Ek Akhar) of Gurbani, starts being on the Gurmat path and is called a Gurmukh which is neither a title, nor a destination but a start of the Gurmat journey because we all know that Sikhi path is a journey. Once this journey begins then he/she, the Gurmukh, finds the tools with the grace of Ik Ong Kaar to keep his/her spiritual collar clean.

The fact of the matter is that we as humans get dirty often around our collars.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

You raise some juicy questions and I am highly motivated to respond. It might take me a while longer because I just got home from work. I am really tired. Let's aim for tomorrow. And I might have to address your questions a few at a time. And because our personal dialog will be getting longer and is coming in the middle of another topic, it may have to be moved to a different thread. Sat Nam.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Harbans Veer Ji,

AS Tejwant Ji has already so eloquently explained..a Gurmukh is not a title..and not an end..not a destination..its the Beginning of a JOURNEY...once we "take the first step..and begin the journey...we are Gurmukhs...

BUT sadly most of us NEVER take the "First Step"...some like me...for 60 years of life-time... have been going to Gurdwaras....Pehla pehr. Paraksh of SGGS....to do Nitnem/waheguru jaap...and then listen to Asa Dee Vaar..then Sukhmani Sahib..then stay back for Japji Sahib..more Kirtan..and then Rehrass sahib, Sohila...and Samapati..DAILY without Fail...and "may" still remain MANMUKHS..simply because for /30/60/90/120 YEARS we RAN ON THE SPOT!!! Nevert ook the First STEP....and thus remained MANMUKH..because OUR REAL LIFE OUTSIDE the GURDWARA..remains fully under the control of the Five Robbers...we cheat and lie, we bribe and take bribes, we sell our principles..etc etc...SO we have in REALITY/PRACTISE Failed to USE the "TOOLS" we are given daily in Gurdwara/SGGS/Gurbani. All we do do matha tek..( to the Tool Box which remains wrapped up in sunder rumallas), then when Gurbani is discussed/sung in kirtan/explained/expositioned (katha/vichaar)..we simply fail to GAIN any...its all Rain falling on dry ground and Running off...we go back daily no better than when we came.

Dont get me wrong..I am NOT JUDGING anyone...that is Guru Jis job/responsibility..I am only saying that while it may not be easy to become a GURMUKH overnight..its very very possible to REMAIN MANMUKH FOR A LIFE TIME !!! The First time i hit on this when I heard the late sant singh maskeen say this in a lecture when i was about 20 years old..and very much into being the "first" to be present at Paraksh of SGGS..and last to leave at Samapti..He told the snagat..There may be many among you who dont "KNOW" the first thing About "Matha Tek"...although everyone has been doing matha tek since they were toddlers....did you notice how many young mothers catch hold of their toddlers' heads and FORCE THEM TO MATHA TEK ??? The toddler neither understands..nor does it willingly..his attention is elsewhere..but his mother forces him to bow down... well this "force" continues...albeit in a different way...then it becomes the.."lok kee akhangeh..gurdwareh ayah..matha vee nahin teekah...( this man came to Gurdwara and he didnt even have the courtesy to matha tek ??)..and so sharmo sharmee..out of "WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK OF ME IF I DONT PAY MY RESPECTS TO GURU JI BY MATHA TEK.."...is the UNSEEN FORCE that works its hidden hand and "forces" our heads down !! Sharmo-Sharmee..such people offer "Shabad Bhet" to the Ragis...( otherwise the Programme organiser may get angry...or what will people think of me..stingy old man..cant even give a dollar to the Ragis ??)..they will also go behind stage and make sure they "donate a sum"..get the RECEIPT and get their Names ANNOUNCED IN ARDASS..so the organising family KNOWS such and such a person came, gave money for deg/rumallah/langgar etc..IN THEIR PROGRAMME..and then they will RECIPROCATE likewise when others hold their own Programmes...THIS IS REALITY..the TRUTH about how MANMUKHS operate...daily in our Gurdwaras..and thus Never take the First step towards becoming GURMUKHS.....BUT ONCE we do that..its a beginning...